http://dbd.game/killswitch
Kagune Mark
Comments
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… Because Circle of Healing, if one Survivor brought it, would give people like three perks for free if they stood in an area and completely gutted hit and run playstyles when it was at its strongest. And it stacked with other effects.
The Ghoul's power can… get a hit with deep wound. And is part of the Killer's basekit.
This is the most bizarre case of whataboutery I've seen for a long time.
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They didn‘t need to remove the self healing part tho. Just nerfing it down to self care speed and keeping the 100% altruistic speed would have been fine.
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No
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Yes
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The self healing part was the problem. Thats why its gone now and has been gone for over 2 years already. So thankfully its never coming back
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So you're saying you're against bringing back the OG Boon: Circle of Healing, but you're fine with the weird pause survivors make when The Ghoul applies its Kagune Mark?
I don't get why they didn't just make it function like a gunslinger ability, where you could dodge the tentacle or something. I've heard a lot of people in the past mention 'end runaround' when talking about Boon: Circle of Healing. To me, that second lunge is basically an indirect workaround to traditional DBD gameplay, and that's exactly why people are so frustrated with this character.
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Just make a second fillable ability Enrage. Like with oni.
Kagune mark PROTECTS survivior from geting injured by the ghoul for a short period of time. (While downed or hooked timer is stopped. Can prevent tunnel by the power.)
So he should injure 2-3 surviviors first before he will be unstopable.
2 perfect, 3 unperfect grabs. (Every perfect grab adds 5 sec to enrage timer. 40 seconds still)
Its short easy to do. And idk why people dont like it.
Ghoul wont change, but will have only 2 leaps before he would just make and make mistakes before down you.0 -
No. The problem was the speed at which you self heal not the ability itself or that killers couldn’t break totem basekit. You were healing yourself at 100% healing speed. With self care healing speed the killer would benefit a lot from survivors using it.
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Boon: Circle of Healing was first nerfed like 3 years ago and then a year ago, why are we having this discussion again?
Just as a recap, the strongest iteration of CoH allowed for like 3 second heals in its radius, and even the first nerfed version obviated nearly every healing perk for every Survivor in the lobby and made matches incredibly frustrating for Killer if you weren't playing Blight or Nurse at a decent level because injured Survivors could just run to the boon area and heal incredibly quickly while still being able to bring BNPs or other turbocharged Toolboxes to burn through gens. Finding the boon was a massive chore for Killer and didn't even resolve the problem for long because setting it back up wasn't an issue.
Ghoul was a little problematic in how strong some of his kit was, but he's been nerfed in the latest hotfix and more changes might be coming anyway. They are two totally different scenarios that have literally nothing to do with each other. You might as well ask why we got the first footage of a live colossal squid but the price of milk didn't go down.
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No, the problem was self healing in general. You're essentially giving your entire team an extra perk
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Have you seen anyone run self care in your recent memory? No?! You can‘t seriously think self care is too strong, so giving it to everyone is hardly any problem. It would benefit the killer far more if survivors waste 46 seconds self healing + searching for the totem + blessing the totem + running to the totem for self care.
Giving an extra perk slot to every teammate is also hardly a problem. Otherwise up the Ante would be one and it is extremely weak. The other boons are also a great example for this, they are all very weak as well and only useful in very specific situations. The only decent boon at the moment is shadow step, which isn‘t that great as well.
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Yeah, they're just like "He gets easy injures!" Yeah, and so what? Legion, Deathslinger, Twins, they can all do the same. Doesn't make them S tier. "B-but he has a mobility ability!" While that's given Hillbilly and Blight an advantage over their peers, that doesn't make them infallible either. People don't like the idea of a challenging killer to go against. They did it with Spirit, with Twins, with Skull Merchant, and now with Ghoul, where they don't even want to learn the counterplay, claim that there isn't any, and instead want the devs to nerf all the difficulty away. Hmm, I wonder how well that would work out for the game if killers got the same preferential, least common denominator treatment. "You know what? I don't feel like walking across big maps. Give every killer a teleport. And while you're at it, delete the shack and jungle gym tiles from the game." That's what it would be like, and it isn't currently, and yet survivors have the guts to say it's a killer sided game, when they're the ones getting "healthy" nerfs every single patch.
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Could your argument serve as a counter to claims about Boon: Circle of Healing, that killer players pushed for a nerf simply because they didn't want to adapt and learn counterplay?
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tbf boons have no counterplay besides shattered hope which just destroys the killers totem and not disables the boon for the rest of the match all they can do is snuff it and the survivor can just relight it infinitely (which is bs compared to hexes)
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There wasn't counterplay, and that's why it was nerfed. Please be smarter
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What a load of messages, I ain't reading them all. What change I would make to circle of healing is you heal at 50% but you ignore all "anti-healing" perks such as Sloppy Butcher. Might be a bad change but Idk.
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I'd be fine if they just added self-care at its regular speed, unless you stack it with Botany Knowledge, of course.
But the real point? It's wild seeing people rush to defend The Ghoul while conveniently forgetting how brutal they were toward Boon: Circle of Healing. The inconsistency is almost impressive.
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The problem was 100% the self healing. BHVR tried to deny that aspect for over a year and nerfed the healing speed over and over. The perk remained a big problem after every single nerf. After the self healing was finally dealt with, the perk was immediately in a much fairer state.
The problem with the self healing is the incredible increase in self sustainability each single survivor gained just for one bringing this perk. A killer was rarely able to leave a survivor injured because they would gain no value what5soever in slowing down gens. The injured survivor would heal by themselves at decent speed (pretty fast with a med kit on top) and no other survivor had to leave a gen.
This got even worse when you look at bodyblocks, as people could heal themselves up by themselves, run in, take a hit and repeat that process. That times 3 creates a big problem.
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The problem as it got nerfed was still the speed and not the ability and that killers weren’t able to break totems. Whenever behavior nerfed the numbers they weren‘t drastic enough and they didn‘t separate self healing from altruistic healing.
First version: self care at 200% - 8 seconds
Second version: self care at 175% - 9,1 seconds
Third version: self care at 150% - 10,6 seconds
Fourth version is what we have now.
My suggestion: self care at 45-35% (35,5-45,7seconds) and altruistic healing at 100%.
When you look at this, the problem was still clearly the speed and not the ability itself. I would even be fine to give killers shattered hope basekit for getting self healing back at 35-45 seconds.
My version would very much benefit killers, because it would work as a natural healthy slowdown. Survivors would search for totems, bless totems, keep running over the whole map to heal and take ages to heal. This is a lot of time. Use an anti healing build and survivors will stand there for minutes.
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How are these two things even related?
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You didnt really go into my point at all. The problem was the self sustainablility it provided combined with the lack of value a killer got for getting a hit. As most decent killer players know, leaving a chase for someone else is often a very viable strategy. This perk, until the self heal got removed, completely negated that. I dont have to mention how hard of a blow this was for hit and run killers, do I? Their entire gameplay got basicly removed. Just ask a Twins- or Hag-main that played during that time and they will tell you fun stories.
Back in the day, killers where able to break boons. They are able to do it now. BHVR´s solution to breaking boons was shattered hope. Was that perk every really used to combat boons? No. It was a drop of water on hot stone. The problem with that perk was:
- You dont know if your opponent brings it, rendering it completely useless if no boon is in play. (This wasnt the problem back then mind you)
- A survivor with CoH would just boon the next totem. Repeat. (This was the real problem imo, because until the killer wasted so much time getting rid of every new CoH, the survivors had made so much progress through the efficiency provided by that perk, that the killers basicly lost the match already just through breaking boons.)
How did people therefore deal with it? Stack more slowdown, tunnel, camp, play killers that are so strong in chase that they never have to leave a chase or play killers that disincentivize healing (e.g. Plague and Legion (mind you, coh often made it efficient to heal even against a Legion back then.))
In regard to your suggestion. Why would a survivor ever pick something that would slow down the game for them? Old CoH sped up efficiency. Thats why it was so good. Its the same reason syringes will never get out of style if they dont get reworked entirely. If self healing comes back at more than 30 sec, then why would anybody use this perk? You could literally just run botany self care. Or even better: a med kit. > med kit with syringe (doesnt even waste a perk slot).
Shattered hope is not a basekti perk for a good reason. It would make almost all other boons so awful that wed have another treacherous crows situation. Thats why it was never made basekit but a perk imo. The other boons where not strong enough to warrant a basekit mechanic by any means. ONLY CoH warranted this kind of ability, which speaks volumes about its strenght.
"My version would very much benefit killers, because it would work as a natural healthy slowdown. Survivors would search for totems, bless totems, keep running over the whole map to heal and take ages to heal. This is a lot of time. Use an anti healing build and survivors will stand there for minutes."
- you summed it up here by yourself. Why would a survivor use a perk that would benefit the killer???
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Our argument in the beginning was about the speed and self healing as ability, which I think we come to an agreement. My version would not be too strong.
Why would survivors run it? Because soloq is soloq and they often don‘t want to heal you or refuse to. Additionally you could start healing while waiting for another survivor to heal the rest. Current circle of healing is for that exact reason only useful in swf.
Shattered hope basekit: I would only do that if I buff all boon perks accordingly.
I didn‘t need to go into your point, because it wasn‘t necessary for my point, which was purely about the speed. I don‘t deny that old COH was too strong and so on, however, there were ways to keep the self healing.
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I do t think people would ever run a perk that benefits killer. Soloq is bad, but not that bad. People will rather run a med kit or a syringe. That's the reality.
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Some people already run it without the self healing part, so giving it that back and keeping the current parts can only increase its play rate. It wouldn‘t be like treacherous crows where you become broken and get a mediocre effect. A health state is very valuable in a lot of situations and the time would probably be worth it (even when it benefits the killer). For example when you are almost healed, you can finish it or when you are on death hook, you rather waste a few seconds to be on the safer side.
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I get it. In my experience, killers love to snowball Survivors who are stuck on generators. Meanwhile, every moment spent blessing totems or patching up wounds is a moment not spent progressing the game. And you know who benefits from that? The killer. Sloppy Butcher, Call of Brine, Pain Resonance, and Overcharge are all perfectly suited for something like that.
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I agree on that, but something that benefits the killer is never really worth running. I think you mean something different, but the wording contradicts the entire purpose of a survivor perk. Its supposed to help you as a survivor. Not benefit the killer.
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Something can be beneficial to the survivors and to the killer. The killer gets time, you get a health state, which also equals time in a chase later and give you some safety. I would run circle of healing and just equip another healing perk to speed it up. The problem of current invocations is that they only really benefit the killer. The crow perk is worthless and weaving spiders puts you permanently in a situation you don‘t wanna be in (broken).
Btw: Behavior released kill rate stats today and Sadako was in the lower MMR section 4th. You know what I want to say by that.
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You want to tell me that Sadako is a noob stomper?
Im not suprised. My point however still stands strong and is by no means proven wrong by their stats.Killers like Pig and Sadako have always had a high kill rate. Both in low and high mmr.
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