http://dbd.game/killswitch
Current Healing Buffs Have Felt Like CoH Meta Since Springtrap.
Is it just me or does the healing feel a tad overtuned? It really feels like you HAVE to bring anti heal perks or be an anti-Heal Killer to do anything about it. Hit and Run is effectively dead right now.
I thought we were all for making more Killer playstyles viable not less. Certainly something feels overtuned. I can't be the only one seeing this, right?
Could we please reevaluate the wisdom of making Survivor Heal perks stronger, especially self heal? Or at least make anti-heal perks stronger to compensate so we can bring those instead of just more gen control? I don't want to be both stymied by fast generators and near instant healing that removes tons of my pressure, especially being a Dredge Main. It feels really bad to have a nice heal snowball set up, and then that pressure is undone in about five seconds by these perks.
I understand Survivor needs more good perks. But as a reminder, they can bring the same stuff four times. There is only one Killer. Wouldn't it make more sense to make Killer antiheal four times stronger to compensate?
What I'm saying I guess is, buff antiheal. You don't need to nerf the Survivor heal perks, but you have gotta buff antiheal. Please. It's rough out here for anyone who wants to play certain Killers right now, I don't want to have to main Ghoul to get anything done.
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I really don't think that'd be a good idea. Healing is a Survivor scoring event and one of the only ways to keep them in the trial. It has to be accessible. At the same time, I don't see it going un-nerfed forever so just be patient I guess.
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Healing is pretty strong right now, but I feel like it's a soft attempt to combat tunnelling etc. If people can heal quickly they should have more of a chance to escape.
That being said, the amount of games I've played where absolutely no one brings a healing perk is astonishing. It's crazy that healing is so buffed and so many survivors aren't using the perks.
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Idk. Yeah I guess killers like Nemesis or Skull Merchant can't tunnel as easily off the hook. But for Killers like Blight or Ghoul, unless you literally go all in on healing, odds are they are back intime to interrupt the heal if they really want to tunnel.
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Well then we need to find ways to make Healing engaging without it being overpowered. It's currently overtuned, and I think even the most full-throated Survivor Main will agree it's maybe a bit much right now. I mean, 50% from Resurgance, faster healing from WGLF, Botany Buffed… The problem now is there is a whole Killer playstyle just outright deleted or negated, cutting many Killers out of playing entirely because hit and run is their only strategy. This leaves gens flying, because now Survs are healed and on gens faster and longer, and so what do Killers do?
That's right. They slug. They camp. They tunnel. They play more Kaneki. All these things that Survivors absolutely despise.
Healing needs to be monitored. Gen speeds also need to be monitored. The game was genuinely fine before this, I don't understand why BHVR felt we needed to give Survivors more toys when it's been demonstrated that giving them too many toys breaks the balance of DBD because the Killer cannot be four places at once.
The problem with this is it doesn't do that. At all. It just makes Killers tunnel more, and makes them go back to hooks more, because they need to get that down to pressure. We've been seeing that literally ALL Twisted Masquerade this year, half my games no joke on Survivor involve tunnelling or slugging even when I don't bring any healing items or perks. That is how bad it is for Killer right now; the majority feel they MUST play this way, why? Because gens are faster, because Survivors stay healthier, because of the Heal Meta.
Heal meta actually makes Killers tunnel EVEN MORE just to force someone out early because there's no pressure better than a Dead Survivor. That's a problem for everyone.
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i think it's about time mangled effect gets reworked to nullify all healing speed bonuses survivors may have.
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I don't really see many healing build within my game. It's mostly exhastion perk, ds, vigil, deja vu, windows, sometimes iron will. A very little I see We'll make it or Do no harm. I really think that the hysteria about healing is stupid, because healing overall haven't trully changed. No one is running full healing build to heal someone in 6s, it's not even a good pick in first place.
What I actually have problem with is Vigil, it's pretty overtuned perk. I don't mind the hemmorage, mangled, not even exhaustion as there are antiexhaustion perks and add ons but i truly mind it working with exposed, hurting any instadown builds. Vigil should not stack, meaning that there is 40 % max value, maybe even might be lowered to 30 % and the exposed being removed. On the killer side we have the busted dms which is straight up the most overtuned killer perk in dbd history and very unhealthy alien instinct perk that luckily no one uses, preventing it's true purpose and potential.
Perks that should be nerfed imo:
Survivor - Vigil, Strenght In Shadows, Dramaturgy
Killer - DMS
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Have you actually played during first version of CoH?
This is not even close to it.12 -
He probably means the latest version with 50 %. You probably mean the og stacking 100 % self heals.
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I would keep mangled as is, but would be cool to have this instead of hemorrhage…
Issue is to get use of hemorrhage, you kinda need to always return to unhook. This would give it some passive function instead.0 -
yeah you kinda have to return to hook with this one, but it's also very rewarding for interrupting heals across the match overall.
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Yeah, thing is it was also main reason why it got limited duration in first place. I would rather rework it for your idea and remove time limit.
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Commit to chases
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hemorrhage being on timer does not make it harder to go back to hook for it.
timer was put on mangled because solo q survivors couldnt be bothered dealing with hit&run.
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hemorrhage being on timer does not make it harder to go back to hook for it.
It makes it harder to use for anything else….
If you don't return to hook, you are unlike to really get any value out of it.
I think mangled was just nerfed along with hemorrhage, because they couldn't be bothered making it work differently than hemorrhage, so both got same timers.
I don't think mangled does that much overall, so don't really need a timer.
Hemorrhage was definetly annoying to deal with against few killers (Wraith), who could easily interrupt healing several times.2 -
I'll put my opinion here. In average game you need about 2-3 heals. Meaning up to 2 can be healed by yourself and 1 by someone else. As stupid it sounds, running multiple healing perks is just pointless and hurts more than help. It is smarter to run strenght in shadowns to have medkit time- unmilited heal rather than full build for 6s heal that will hurt you in antitunnel, gen effeciency and chase. It's same as when killers run full slowdown, no pressure, no effect. If you run full healing build, 50 % of games you don't it, 25 % of game you won't have time to use it and 25 % of the game it will do barely something.
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Devs should revert mangled and hemmreorage statuses to their original forms and revert the perks and add ons that afflict them
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I think you're spot on. I'm sure a lot of this rapid self healing and difficulty creating pressure is all spill over from the design switch to dash killers over the past 2 years. Nowadays if a killer doesn't have mobility, they don't sell, and these killers who can move well are always strong.
Since the Wesker-era took over we have more dash killers than ever, and because mobility snowballs pressure so hard, a lot of them keep getting nerfed, such as Chucky, Wesker, Blight, Ghoul, etc.
In the same breathe, non mobile killers have been struggling, snd as such have been getting a lot of add-ons made basekit and otherwise had buffs too. Freddy got more mobility, and we've had buffs to Trapper, Pig, Doctor, Legion, Knight, Nemesis, Myers, Ghost Face etc, etc. We all get little improvements to make these killers better.
Grand, all is well... :
- Dash killers are getting nerfed.
- M1 killers are getting buffed.
However mobility still proves to be king time and time again even with these nerfs/buffs... and so we see a third action being taken...
- Survivors are getting buffed via perks and basekit effects.
Now this makes sense if we look at dash killers and the ever present threat they pose via tunneling and slugging… perks like WGLF, Resurgence, Botany, etc all seem fine when looking here... and a lot of the other perks did definitely need to be buffed for Survivor, because they were weak...
However if we look at M1 killers in the face of all these survivor buffs... we just buffed them to help their pressure... however the survivors get some really strong meta perks and basekit effects now that basically undo their buffs, and in some cases make them even weaker at maintaining pressure than they were before... 😶😶😶
At this point I don't see the problem going away... M2 killers with high mobility is the standard now for new killers... anything that doesn't have that gets dropped like a bad habit... so everything has to be balanced with regards yo this new high mobility landscape... and that means our immobile killers are basically brown bread.
At least Pig is getting mobility buffs... she's been increased while crouching by a whole 10% in 6 months... that's how much mobility is important in this game... this is just modern DBD 😐
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I've been playing since 2017. Yes I have and I know exactly what I am talking about here. Yes, it is close. Not as strong, but close.
It definitely feels similar to old CoH.
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Sure. I've only been playing this game for 8 years, I CLEARLY need baby Killer advice about chasing. Stupid me, why don't I just commit to chases with Killers like Onryo and Dredge and Ghostface who don't have chase powers and often play hit and run? Yeah! There's no fire, is there Lettuchia? I'm just bad and unskilled at the game like ALL Killer Mains are in your eyes, it can't possibly be that the Killers I enjoy are being hurt by the buffs intended to handle Kaneki, so I'm stuck with Dash Killers I friggin' HATE playing as, right?
Please get so over yourself and play a few actual games of Killer until you start seeing this, I'm tired of you and your Survivor-biased concern trolling. I'm honestly surprised your Us versus Them type attitude hasn't gotten you banned from the forums yet. People like you have been telling me the same nonsense since 2017. "Just do this, just do that" when you DAMN WELL KNOW that isn't possible for every Killer because you clearly don't play ANY Killer judging by your attitude.
Please never comment on anything I post again, you almost never add ANYTHING to discussions except more Survivor bias slop. And no, your sad little downvote on my comment here doesn't make you the bigger person. I know it's you.
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No, I mean the OG one with stacking 100% self heals. It feels very similar. Please do not patronize me. I KNOW what it feels like. I was there.
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Well if you think that 100 % COH and 50 % COH felt the same, then something is wrong on your side.
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Friend I was not talking about CoH, I was talking about other healing perks feeling like old CoH. Please read all my posts before you respond. :)
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I read it. And it's just not true. Healing was always doable in certain ways. And as I said if someone runs full build for healing, than bless him if getting tunneled.
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Then I suppose you must not have been there for it. It feels similar. Not the same but similar. The fact there's people agreeing it feels problematic here proves I'm not incorrect.
Have a lovely day.
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People are always complaining about something. Healing is exactly the same as always was, just changed within what to use and not. And as a killer main, I'd much rather see healing builds than exhaustion perks and second chances.
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No you weren't. Back then survivors could heal themselves in ~6s if they had medkit (which btw had insane amount of charges) and had 16s unlimited self heals. Right now if survivor has botany (lets be real, no one uses other healing perks anyway, even botany is kinda rare) and double healing speed add-ons it's ~11s heal and it's one time only, if they have charges add-ons it's 2 ~13.5s heals. It's not even remotely close to OG CoH and if you're saying it feels the same it's clear that you didn't play back then. Honestly idk why all of a sudden people started complaining about healing because almost nothing changed, probably some content creator told people to be mad lmao.
Post edited by BoxGhost on3 -
I'm sorry I'm just going to address some of what you said to me.
Personally, I feel like saying buffed healing causes an increase in tunnelling is just not the case. It doesn't logically line up and it's not what I've experienced in game.
From my view, if someone is unhooked and then quickly healed, it makes them a less attractive target than a more attractive one. Why would they be more attractive because they were at full health? Now if you're talking about finishing and completing chases, I'm totally with you, and if you're saying injuring playstyles have been nerfed I can totally understand that. But your example doesn't bear through, for me.
Your point about pressure does make sense, but I feel like it's an overestimation of how strong a regular healing perk is. Default heal is 16s. We'll Make It is a 100% increase and turns that heal into 8s. Botany Knowledge (50%) will turn that heal into 10.66s. Empathic Connection (35%) will turn that heal into 12s.
At a fairly realistic max, we'll say a survivor does 5 heals per game, that's a good 40s shaved off healing (at 100%) which they could contribute towards generators. That's a hefty chunk. In comparison, if they ran resilience and did 5 gens, they would shave 45s off the generator time (realistic max). Deja Vu would grant 30s off generator repair time. Prove Thyself may effectively be more.
It's an isolated calculation and doesn't take into account every factor in the game, but from a purely technical perspective at least the time removed for gens/pressure removed for killers, isn't amazingly different than bringing generator perks instead.
In my view, some killers have been tunnelling simply because it's the most effective way to get bloodpoints during the masquerade where everyone is using the 109% offerings.
There has always been no better pressure than a dead survivor. It's the most effective way to play the game unless survivors are high level. I also think that survivors starting together has been a very large change for the game that hasn't been addressed and may be contributing towards the sense of pressure loss.
tl;dr: Gen perks probably give a similar amount of value to healing perks time wise now.
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There's no reason to make the topic personal when we disagree.
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So, broken? lol
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Thats why i day they start nerfing mobility killers and stop balancing the game around the expectation that everyone only plays mobikity killers and instead shift the focus back to non mobility killers. Mobility killers should be the rarity to have released, and should come with some significant downsides to balance them out.
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How about you first evaluate on what exactly you think got buffed too much instead of overexagerating meaningless?
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I can handle the heals if bhvr gives us unlimited hemorrhage back. contesting heals should be rewarded
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I do think healing is way too powerful atm hit and run against healing builds is just impossible with the buff they have given to healing perks like botany and desperate measures allow for 6 second reset speeds which in turn allow for more progress on gens as time saved healing its time spent on something else.
The problem being only made worse by a lack of anti-heal on killer unless your base kit allows for it.
I also want to say that just because one thing is not as broken as it used to be does not mean that the current version isn't.
Injuring survs is sometimes the only reliable way to build pressure as survs would have to choose to be injured doing gens or spent time healing, with the current healing meta you heal so fast that you don't have to take any risks which I think is bad design as it should not be risk free.
Post edited by Ragna_Rock on-2 -
broken prevents healing altogether.
what i am suggesting will remove positive healing speed modifiers.
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I'm not so sure. While healing is quite strong right now, it's definitely nowhere close to any version of CoH— especially not the first iteration. Eight second heals are still not the norm for every injury, there's only one tool that gives survivors something close to that- although admittedly it does give them faster heals than that.
The thing about healing is that it hasn't really changed much recently, so that makes it difficult to assess what exactly might be problematic. Resurgence was buffed initially forever ago, the recent Botany change was functionally meaningless, there are a few new perks like Clean Break that are good but not overpowered… really all that's changed noticeably recently is Desperate Measures being buffed, but I'd be hesitant to suggest that's a cause of any problems here.
I think it's probably on the mark to suggest buffing anti-heal to help players feel like they have good options, but that's also tricky because it's easy to overcorrect. Still, maybe a slight buff to Mangled or something primarily to remind people of their options might be a good call.
The only actual healing tool I could see being worthy of a nerf right now is Resurgence because it is pretty insane. It does only work twice, though, so it's not that bad.
Maybe lower it back down to 50% but give it an extra effect for clearing negative effects on unhook, or something? Just spitballing.Every other tool, though, eh… I think they're probably okay. The meta just needs a light push towards good counterpicks.
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yeah my friend runs resurgence and stacked with do no harm and potentially a medkit you've got basically a sub-3 second heal. I've done heals on him in killers faces before.
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I'd be okay with that if it doesn't ALSO slow down, honestly.
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All of this factually false.
- Keys are not being nurfed heavily if anything they are being buffed with the next update being able to be used more and when finished can be exchange for a new item in the span of a second and to add insult to injury maps will do the same thing next update but even better with the iri add on.
- Flashbangs used to be uncounterable and have been changed to be fair and requires some stealth and timing to work instead of a free blind.
- Sabotaging is really strong as there is no counterplay as you can sabo faster than the killer can attack you leading to saboing in the killers face if you want.
- Toolboxes with a build can allow people to complete gens in like nearly half the time and are insanely strong made worse by the fact most killer regression perks have been nurfed to being barely viable.
There is no universe where you can say med kits are the only viable choice as that is just being ignorant of an items true potential.
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"So this really leaves med-kits as the best choice"
"If they actually buffed survivor items instead of making them incredibly weak we would be likely to see stuff other than med-kits"
These statements clearly insinuate that you think Med-Kits are the only viable choice.
1.Blood amber revealing the killer and you to the killer does not change its main function as the aura reveal it used to stop mind games and it will still be able to do that with the next update if it remains as stated. Maps are getting buffed with the iri addon to do what keys do now but better.
2.Flashbangs were always a skill issue? How do you counter a flash bang you cant look away from or cant hear being put down? No flashbangs were op if you cannot see that you clearly do not know much about them.
3. No the killer cannot just go to another hook map RNG wont always allow it. To pretend otherwise is will full ignorance.
4. Damn you may have to invest perks in order to get value out of your item shocker. By saying that a med-kid will be useful on its own only really further proves the point of how powerful they are.
Don't say surv items are incredibly weak they are not you just don't know how to use them.
How the hell am I straw manning? I pointed out that what you said was false, just throwing buzz words does not make you sound intelligent.
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- How is that useless? Hell I think your straw manning me at this point its still good and again THE MAP WILL DO THE SAME THING BUT BETTER or you going to ignore that part again?
- So you go after someone to stop a flashbang play but as you go after one another can just pick up anyway which is still getting the save and the intended effect.
- How am I straw manning? Map dependant saboing? What are you smoking? You can sabo on all maps if the killer sees you saboing obviously they will walk else its not just walk up and sabo for immediate value.
- Items are useful on their own again do you even know how to use them? A toolkit with a BNP is still powerful on its own, perks make them far better.
"So this really leaves med-kits as the best choice by virtue of the devs over the years intentionally and unintentionally nerfing all other items. If they actually buffed survivor items instead of making them incredibly weak we would be likely to see stuff other than med-kits."
Your whole point was that everything sucks and med-kits are the only viable item your statement here proves it. I am saying that is false and all you said was a lie.
At this point your not here to fairly debate you just want to lie so I will not continue this.
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Thank you, there were too many people here making it personal against me for pointing this out. It's definitely not a stretch to say that healing could be a bit overtuned in some cases now, and that if that's the case we should address and talk about it, right? I don't see how or why everyone's angry at me for mentioning it. It's not taboo to want the game to be balanced.
Brother, I am not lying just because you disagree with me. I was there. I PLAYED during CoH meta, it sucked hard. I was a Huntress main and even that didn't help, on the plus side I got really good at trying to down people before they could heal with the CoH meta, LMAO. I don't know what else to tell you and I have nothing to prove, all I know is what it felt like. It felt very bad. It may not be one to one the same, but it DOES feel very similar. That's problematic no matter what you believe.
Stop making it personal.
And this was my whole point. These perks as they are now currently create a situaton which is similar to what got CoH nerfed - it made self healing stronger to the point that the medkit changes back in 2023 were utterly pointless as you can just do a sub-3 second heal anyway. This change kills hit and run.
Not everything a person disagrees with is "crashing out", stop being weirdly personal. I'm not even angry, therefore not "crashing out." Meanwhile you literally come comment what appears to be purposefully inflammatory words every single time I post anything.
I agree healing needs to be viable. I just think there needs to be a middle ground between nothing, old CoH, and what we currently have. Killing hit and run as a playstyle isn't the answer either.
Post edited by BoxGhost on-1 -
Hopefully phase 2 makes that a bit easier, but we'll see. Without camping/tunneling/slugging being as punishing, healing potentially wouldn't be as important.
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I personally look forward to seeing egregous, extreme slugging reduced the way facecamping was, and I would hope if it is true that "Some Killers need to slug/tunnel/camp more", those Killers will recieve buffs - strong ones - that eliminate the need to do this beyond normal Killer pressure. That's what they want to address - excessive slugging, hard tunnelling, and facecamping. The current AMA confirms the devs believe that some slugging is part of intended Killer gameplay. Just not leaving people to bleed out for four minutes.
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The concern I have is that they view it as being more than a catchup mechanic and want it to continue to be stronger than it should be. Which, treating it like a catchup mechanic means a lot more work than I honestly expect to be done. That ultimately means more band-aid fixes. But we'll see. We won't know until they go live.
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You mean purposefully inflammatory words like these?
"I've only been playing this game for 8 years, I CLEARLY need baby Killer advice about chasing."
"I'm just bad and unskilled at the game like ALL Killer Mains are in your eyes"
"Please get so over yourself"
"I'm tired of you and your Survivor-biased concern trolling"
"I'm honestly surprised your Us versus Them type attitude hasn't gotten you banned from the forums yet."
"when you DAMN WELL KNOW that isn't possible for every Killer because you clearly don't play ANY Killer judging by your attitude."
"you almost never add ANYTHING to discussions except more Survivor bias slop"
But yeah, nothing more than disagreement here, def not worth considering to be crashing out
Also killing hit and run as a playstyle is the answer, it's a lazy playstyle for people who can't bother putting in the effort required to commit to chases
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Closing this thread as recent comments have become heated.
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