Recall of PTB and tunneling issue

CW: really long text.

Hello. 

I just want to try to explain here what concerned me this whole month in the most casual (and maybe emotional) way. This post is going to be very long, and considering English isn’t my native language, I have to try a lot to keep this post long yet simple, constructive yet subjective, and emotional yet not offensive at the same time. I would be grateful to everyone who will take it into account and will provide their further feedback!

PTB and their main issue

1. Poor technical implementation - the whole new mechanic with introducing zero collision caused many bugs related to killer power (like Legion, Pyramidhead, Ghostface, Twins, Cenobite). Antislug scale were also a lil broken, because even situations where killer didn't slug (survivor just used plot twist) were contributing to build the scale up.
2. Base kits from already existing mechanics without proper consideration

• BBQ

Basically, we killed the original version and got the nerfed one in the base kit. Considering it always was counterable as well, I find this bonus extremely insignificant and not worthy to use. The main use of this perk on actual good players never were mindless chase finder. The main reason while this perk were viable on majority of killers is possibility for actual map control and understanding of each position. 

• Pop

25% of current progression is viable on killers with high mobility only, and alongside further nerfs of other meta perks, it was insufficient. Again, because of current progression. In PTB it was simply impossible to achieve same level of gen regression, yet anti-system changes were supposed to make trial longer. Yet it’s straightforward were impossible, if survivors actually worked on objective.

• Haste

    I never found it fair when one side just mindlessly stacked haste only to make life easier, getting rid of any necessity in mind gaming and playing tiles using their sources, at the same time denying skill from other roles. You didn’t consider how actually problematic it looks on Springtrap, Spirit, and Clown. We should stop contributing to the already sensitive status system, making it even worse or abusable on specific killers. Moreover, for killers who actually needed it, haste would never be enough compared to actual mobility. And they won’t stack base kit with other perks - because usually their weakness hides in map pressure and chase at the same time, so they have to use slowdown or more viable chase perks that works most of the time. 

This ptb changes give a clear message here - on really low level of play games indeed would like to finish as tie more. On above mid? This is definitely would be something worse than any solo Q experience. Why? 

We got multiple nerfs considering 25% of current progression might be strong, but forgot to do the same for the survivor. Still keeping second chances perks, or buffing already extremely beneficial base kits. If we were actually up to balance, I thought devs will reduce half of numbers on gen rush perks and removed any second chances completely. Yet… devs decided to rework the same otr in a way that buffs base kit? Just… why? We also had other problems: 

• No HUD info deprived the killer of any actual map control (alongside the buff of reassurance). As well as you directly encourage players to camp or run specific perks only to have base info that other role were already provided for free.
• No collisions, prolonged haste (buffed babysitter), OTR provided a whole weapon as your teammate that can freely bodyblock, mess with other players' hitboxes, or simply deny killer’s power when u still can freely communicate with killers props. 
• Complete death of any tracked tools, while unhooked survivors still keep as active members of the team. Killer instinct turns out to be redundant system. 
• 6 hooks. I don’t want to even comment this. Just to get know - in games where I played survivor and we indeed deserved our win killer barely had 6 hook stages in endgame. Think for yourself what I'm hinting at.
• Implemented tenacity and buffed unbreakable as a base kit. Uh… I think every tenacity user in effective SFW knows how broken it is. If not… I can’t advise western sources on this theme, but Russian streamers like Meydix and NighFuryo tested it, and it was pretty bad. We had a period of infinite unbreakable; why return to the same mistakes and make it even worse?

Possible “crutch” or actual balancing?

I think the fairest position should stay as it is—the game should have tools to utilize, and you should have the opportunity to use or not to use them. It’s not about what kill rate/escape rate you personally have. It’s not about the streaks people are doing in the media.

We should stop asking for base kits unless it’s related to UI changes, accessibility, and info that will decrease the gap between solo and SWF. Why? If you buff the whole side by numbers, it’s going to lead to game-breaking scenarios and another so-called “emotional rant.” Both experienced survivors and killers were against the recent PTB, in case they took most of their matches seriously and were oriented on the PvP genre rather than abstract comprehension of fun.

So, I tried to write down my personal proposals about QoL. Starting with small steps instead of drastic changes would be a more viable strategy for a long time period. We definitely need to make life of solo better. But if this changes are proposed in a way of some numbers, straight-off bonuses and ignores SFW/variability of killers it would be a lazy decision.

The following proposals consider this system in relation to good RNG existence and equal skill on both sides. An actually working and balanced MMR assumes that people don’t actually struggle in this game on one side more than the other. That both sides encourage playing the game seriously or in the frame of the proposed (PvP) genre. I’m also considering that the game should provide proper UI changes to this system, making it intuitively clear when and how it’s working for both sides.

• 10 sec of elusive endurance and haste after unhooking stays as it is and cancels only in the endgame. Elusive is lost as soon as you act (pallet drop, killer prop interaction, and flashlight usage should be included). I strongly recommend keeping it about cancelling in the endgame because this part has a shorter duration of the whole game sequence, and if a survivor gets downed there, it means they are getting downed. It’s not about tunneling anymore, and the only incentives you get in the endgame should be provided by how you played the game as a whole + optional perks. I also look at this from the perspective of a survivor who has suffered many times in the endgame, because blindly counting on a free human shield in the form of a wounded teammate always led to senseless and even deadly altruism. Players should not have a "tricky tool" that may mislead the team to unsafe decisions. IMO.
• If a survivor is unhooked and the killer initiates a chase, they get the adrenaline rush effect for the next minute:

About the Adrenaline Rush Effect:

• After taking a hit and enduring it, you keep haste for up to 3-5 seconds (so, let the survivor who is tunnelled get out of the dead zone). Your scratch marks disappear 50% faster, and you don’t leave pools of blood for 60 seconds. Dead Hard will have huge potential to become an actual anti-tunnel perk on its own. And skill-related. If it was hit straight off the hook, you can gain more distance by getting out of zone or make the role of the saver more preferable for the killer to chase. I don’t personally appreciate this and call it a “crutch,” but if we believe it’s unbelievably hard to endure 1 vs 1 from typical solo queue… here it is.
• Every survivor within a range of 32 m of you can see each other.
• You can see the aura of lockers, windows, and pallets for 60 seconds within a 24 m range. You don’t create noise when fast vaulting objects.

Other effects that also might help solo:

• From the start of the trial, the survivor sees the aura of one random generator. After gen completion, the target changes.
• When a survivor is hooked/slugged, you and your teammates see each other’s aura within the killer’s terror radius.
• When a survivor is injured, everyone sees the aura of the injured within a 16 m range. The injured survivor also sees the aura of their teammates in this range.
• If you have a hook state and are injured, you have a 100% chance to get a brown med-kit on your first chest opening. Sounds unimportant, but it can make a big difference when your solo teammates are busy or deny your healing, forcing unsafe situations. Many inexperienced players also like to open chests, so making them slightly more useful isn’t harmful. I think chests should also introduce a 50% chance of key spawn if one survivor is left in a trial.
• Maps now can “point” at objects and highlight auras by default. You can now highlight up to 3 objects at the same time (hook, generator, chest, exit gates, totems).
• Survivors see the aura of any dropped item until it’s fully depleted.
• Rework of hatch locations: on every map they can spawn only in 3 specific locations (shack, main building, within 24 meters of one of the gates). The hatch closes itself after 60 seconds (to deny camping from the killer or AFK play).
• If you are the only survivor left in a trial, you open gates 100% faster.
• Antislug proposal (it doesn't cancel slug as a way of pressure but makes slugging irrelevant or extremely risky if you are commuting to it as the main playstyle). It also shouldn't harm Twins/Oni with their core design to down survivors over a far distance between each other.
• If you are put in the dying state, you make 50% less noise. You can recover up to 99% progress.
• If another teammate is put down as well, both of you have a 100% bonus to recovering, and you are crawling faster. You can crawl and recover at the same time. After this, you can pick each other up by pressing the ability button on your slugged teammate. Both of you get a 50% speed boost for 3  seconds, and you get the adrenaline rush effect.
• If two survivors are left in a trial and one of them is downed for more than 30 seconds, this survivor can disconnect without penalty AND without losing match progress (the DC will be equal to being killed). It auto-triggers the hatch (no bot replacement).

Comms proposal

This is actually a huge need for Solo. I was thinking about adding something like a special gesture to point at the area of a location you want to show your teammate and a few additional phrases that will be seen close to the survivor HUD, like

“Go there.”
“Avoid this place.”
“Generator”
“Totem”
“Teammate there”
“Exit”
“Help me.”

Pre-lobby perks loadout

I’m against the opinion of people who don’t want to see this feature only because of potential lobby dodging. Maybe it’s the duty of the game not to create perks that encourage dodging? You also have pre-game chat; nothing prevents a player from warning their teammates about specific perks for achievements. I always did it myself numerous times without this feature, so my teammates could either support me or leave if they wanted to focus on winning. As a killer, I don’t mind it either.

• It should help with the main issue—when your teammates draw false conclusions due to not having enough information, making team-oriented builds inefficient.

But if the changes were to turn out to be so disadvantageous, I would suggest an alternative in the form of additional roles that change the character’s HUD icon like in 2 vs 8 and inform others about what role the teammate wants to take on. It also would be nice if each of the class would have some interesting passive effect everyone would be aware of.

Rating

The most controversial take here, but… I had numerous matches in a row where teammates ruined the game for everyone, just wanting their flashlight save. When 3 out of 4 people refuse to do gens, leading to poor time management while the killer just eats sources and hooks stages. The only time I experienced the desire to give up was in matches like this. Not when someone tunneled me. If such people would have a higher probability of playing with players alike, solo queue would breathe easier.

Addressing many posts I witnessed during PTB

Just a hot take here?  It’s counterintuitive for the core design of PvP games to force one side to play less aggressively only for the other to catch up (it should stay as an option, however) and “have fun.” Just because you want to make an already casual game even more casual.

Playing a little bit less than 1k, but treating this game kind of seriously (not really, otherwise I played ladder or league), and trying both roles made me feel the average survivor skill floor is lower than the killer one. THAT’S the issue. The majority of survivors are ignoring simple truths—the other role they are going against consist less of such players, and they usually treat the game completely differently. Killers don’t have “funny chat” interaction or a sense of team play to entertain themselves, and the aesthetic of slasher and horror encourages playing to win in this specific role. They don't have the opportunity to “take a rest” on holding M1 interaction with gen, and the constant surround of 4 players, if they are capable of competing, puts them in pretty stressful circumstances, leading to more direct gameplay focused on winning and can lead to an aggressive style. Their perk roster for effectiveness and “funny” builds is 10x more limited and extremely specific to each killer. Mechanics work there as well—due to some variability of powers and requirements to learn it. Skill expressions are way more natural for killers. Survivors? It always was a hidden gem due to how this role was designed, among the chaotic behavior of 4 people. That’s where I found an answer to why it’s worse first for solo survivors. This game created a natural incentive for the killer to try to be as efficient as possible, yet failed to do the same on the survivor side. It’s an unnatural, fleeting moment the majority of players don’t notice. And we have other numerous problems, which are present in every match. Fixing it by limiting other roles isn’t the answer and never will be.

I know that my words above wouldn’t be enough, so here is a more thorough address of popular takes:

“Tunneling is an easy strategy and exploit.”

It is, indeed, easier strategy. Because effective. Why we should discourage to play effective? Because average survivor player didn't learn how to play effective as well? Maybe, to make it harder for killer, instead of providing lazy invincible power, survivors should get better RGN and taught how to counter it? So only survivors who actually progress in game receive bonuses? 

People who claim tunneling is easy make it easy for the killer.

The first kill supposed to happen from 2 gen to 1 in actually balanced matches no matter game style your opponent choose and you can secure it by good RNG and effectiveness. If killer use effectiveness, it should be countered by same approach. Not due to someone dying so other members get a free catch-up tool. Because when this tool is desperately needed, it wouldn’t be enough anyway, but in balanced trials where tunnelling worked as well though strategy or desperation attempt of comeback, it switches the game on adaptability difficulty for one role, ignoring previous decisions of the other role and their influence, leading to unexpected fine. I will never understand why games should punish people for logically effective strategies only because it affects their opponents in a bad way. So I indeed will not understand why some people in community claim gen rush/tunnel should be punished by system, and not as responsive play. Game should encourage effectiveness only, as well as encourage heavy counterplay. Not creating it itself

If you don’t tunnel/slug/hold 3 gen/proxy camps, you’ll never win the game in macro and efficiency against a team actually equal to your skills, so you have to stomp 99% of the lobbies by chases. This is straightforward impossible as expecting solo be aware of what of potential 160 perks their teammates have for loadout. 

People in this community have a tendency to blame in a skill issue on the part that decided to combine their chase potential with map economy, which is actually showing a deeper understanding of gameplay. It can’t be a skill issue when players commit to an effective strat as a way to put pressure. It’s a skill issue when you fail doing it or can’t show any resistance.

Game doesn't learn survivors how to deal with actual pressure. Split up, gen efficiency — something so small and not requires comp level of understanding the game, yet people fail. Why? Game never actually punished people with high level of selfishness on the side where it is supposed to be a team play, and moreover, put this punishment on killer/other survivors usually. And until we’ll move from escape and kill rate to actually strict win conditions that focus on 1 vs 4 factor, where such players will forever stay in low tab, nothing will change. My teammate played bad? We’ll all lose MMR then. And I have to deal with more of such teams in solo, stucking in same pattern as some kind of nightmare. Even me can threw up matches, but somehow game doesn't do anything to encourage player to fix it.

Maybe it's not fun, but with the contribution of many second-chance perks, this game is indeed about resource management. Killers understood this a long time ago, because the specificity of being alone on the game usually forces you to manage time. For survivors this game, unfortunately, doesn’t have clear signs, while the media is over-obsessed with chases.

Tunneling isn’t some “exploit”—at least because it has actual counterplay, at max because it’s a characteristic trait in every asymmetric game. BHVR already gave us a lot of extremely busted tools that limits tunneling, but apparently failed to teach how to use it. Watching gameplay years ago when everyone one knew about “tapping” the hook for save rescue and comparing it to nowadays, more of such changes just leads to deteriorating skills on survivor side. People forgot everything they knew cause received another base kit they can rely on. 

“But stats claim the survivor role is underpowered, so it requires incentives for catching up.”

Do we really wanna to rely on stats where…

1. They consider matches where the killer/survivor farms
2. They consider games where a person disconnected and it gave an evident advantage to the killer. 
3. Games where survivors or specific one just gave up for no reason or played typical “bully squad” style, where instead of completing main objectives, it was a 20-minute match of interaction with the killer 
4. Games where teammates are feeding/cooping with the killer

For numerous people on this forum, with all my respect, do you really want to use official stats as an argument when Sadako, arguably one of the weakest killers in the game, has a busted kill rate in general due to how people simply don’t know anything about counterplay because the design of this game didn’t provide it? 

Stats will turn out to be viable when this game will have clear win conditions. And when people who play for fun and who play for challenge will be separated.

Tribalism and why it exist 

Tunneling never was a mechanic with the possibility to tweak numbers introduced by devs. It has always been an approach to the game from a player and lives in the nature of every asymmetric game. It's pointless to fight with this factor along with the SFW one. It's pointless to shame people for playing like this, because it's a deal of their view on the game.

The uniqueness of killer ability already encourages a learning curve (besides the dash slop epidemic or recent decrease of actually complicated mechanics), but a complete generic approach to perks and, therefore, survivors creates an invisible barrier for the other group. I wouldn’t like to call it a mass skill issue, because I’m playing survivor myself. But the way it was designed heavily implies this. Micro limited, macro neglected. And we planning to push it further with generic dash/teleport slop, auto hits/grab scan, primitive props, repetitive perks, limitation of approaches. Can I receive answer why? Anyone above 1k hours will be just tired from playing games where u supposed to play PvP, but it turns out u fight with the system. One side is indeed “underpowered”. Because game didn’t show the value of time and resources. And it can falsely mislead to the situation where “it’s my opponent and not my problem”. 

Survivors need to have incentives. But not free one. As well as some Myers unviable without a tombstone, survivors have to be glued with their meta. But then why are we trying to rework killers as a first response to this problem, but with survivors suddenly having to point fingers on the other side and tell them they are the problem? I don't get such logic.

“The game is indulging killer players.”

I would like to say specific killers are just devs’ favorites, or they simply don’t know what to do with their powers, probably limited by their technical capabilities. The way BHVR quickly responded to the fog vials and PTB issue can be explained as it is—they’ll prefer for one person to be waiting to matchmake rather than 4, as well as they’ll prefer to quickly react to the “emotional rant” of the minority, which keeps the game playable. This changes also caused many bugs in technical terms. Too much I want to say. 

The last released meta on survivors that works as slowdow was shoulder the burden. No rework/nerfs, even when it’s still pretty buggy. Last released meta slowdown on killers? Artist’s scourge hook, that went through 3 nerfs and one “buff” that was motivated by horrible bug. And were almost nerfed to the ground on PTB. The Ghoul/Clown existence is a consequence of PTB not working as actual testing system and complete neglect of feedback, where many killer players weren’t denying their problematic gameplay and asked for not pushing it to the live. So, where is actually that “indulging to the role”? Attention? Absolutely, but not indulging. 

So, about true balancing.

I have never seen positions from players who seek “fun” or balance factor statements like “Let’s remove both tunneling and the SFW factor.” No tunneling, but no way to deny killer pressure from chases by stun saves, flashlights, sabos, and second chances as well, so killers won’t feel they need to tunnel”

Such people were advocating for a mass nerf of slowdown, like genuinely believing 25% of current progression is indeed a strong tool and requires the death of everything else viable in the game. But for survivors? You were able to stack everything with the new system, overbuffing yourself on the level of some nurse. No one pointed it out when told about number tweaks. So, indeed—if they are going to tell me they are up to balance, I won’t believe it. Not anymore.

This game have to balance around BOTH average and top players. And of course it’s gonna be hard. Especially when u want to remove any encouragement for playing better and handling them on the most primitive way, at the same time putting whole responsibility on other role to deal with consequences of this decision.