My problems with & wishes for 2v8
First: I play both sides nearly equally (2 survivor matches between 2 killer matches), play 2v8 since the beginning and have 8k hours in DbD.
1.) 10 generators instead of 8
You doubled everything in 2v8 except the gens and I don't understand why. I had a few matches where 5 gens were done in like 3-4 minutes while the killers only gained 2-3 hookstages meanwhile. I usually escape as survivor in 2v8 unless my team and myself "let the killers win", because we're too altruistic or don't do gens quick enough. If the survivors are just trying in 2v8, the killers usually have hardly a chance.
2.) Pallet density is still a problem
The pallet density in 2v8 seems still unbalanced on certain maps. On Red Forest or Shattered Square for example you have multiple pallets like every 3 metres and often doubled. Meanwhile on other maps like Coldwind Farm I still notice dead zones (I'm not talking about the edge of the map).
3.) Escapist is OP
The only role I have a problem with is Escapist, because you shouldn't be able to dodge a hit by using a button (that gives me old Dead Hard flashbacks). Sprint Burst is nothing compared to Escapist because you can already be running and still trigger Escapist and not just for yourself, but also for your mates. It's just too strong, I hardly play it myself as survivor.
Edit:
4.) Ranking up / gaining pips in 2v8
I still don't get it why you can't get pips in 2v8. You even get emblems, so why not pips? When you play 3 weeks of 2v8, you hardly benefit from the rank reset.
Comments
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I've been saying 10 gens for a while and seems unfair that there's an 8 limit seeing how fast gens can be fully repaired, and it's been 1 iteration but pyramid head hasn't gotten any changes and still remains bad, trapper as well but he'll be getting a rework this year so that makes sense but for PH, there should be no reason why the trail segment should remain at 100 in a mode that has like triple the original map sizes, it should at least be from 200-250 for the segment, trail creation to at least 4.4m/s, and the width of the punishment of the damned increased to at least 20% or so, since it's difficult to land in this mode compared to 1v4
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Counterpoint: 3-gens are very common, and with even a bit of speed and coordination you can completely halt all progress.
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I've always thought the comparatively fewer gens is because of the same basic principle of the main game, where killers playing well slows the game down pretty heavily.
It's hypothetically possible, and even quite realistically achievable, for two killers to occupy six survivors between them, leaving only two to do generators. Killer macro pressure doubles with two killers on the field, so it makes sense that the macro requirements for survivor don't go up by as much since that could end up really lopsided in favour of killer.
Not that super strict balance is a requirement for the goofy party mode, but still. Balance matters a little so I think this particular facet is pretty reasonable, personally.
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There are no 3-gens in 2v8, only 5-gens at the end and you need a lot of luck to get the last 5 gens close to each other. And I don't want to pressure gens that much as I do in 1v4 (because I have the perks to do so there). In 2v8, I focus more on nice chases and when I play Huntress I go for snipes on 8 survivors while playing Enforcer which is a lot of fun. But the matches are over way too fast and you can't just say "then move on to the next one", when you have to wait 20-25 minutes for a lobby as killer.
-2 -
You do some 8ks but it's harder than doing 4ks in 1v4. It depends on the killer you chose, your partner, the coordination of the survivors and the map. Sometimes even your best performance is not good enough because of the circumstances (but that is an overall problem in DbD). Of course, it's not always about winning (especially not in 2v8), but if they gens get done too fast, there is not much fun left.
-2 -
The gens can still be clustered together, creating the feel of a three-gen scenario. However, the survivors can be blamed for not spreading out gen completions.
I feel that the habit of hooking somebody and then running across the map to pressure the cage instead of pressuring gens is the reason why 2v8 would be miserable at 10 gens.
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Still people struggle to complete 8 gens.
If 10 gens would need to be completed this mode wouldn't be so popular.
People are stacking the gens and after making full gen BP they just ignore the objective.
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looks inside the post : claims they both play both sides.
its all just survivor nerfs….is dissapointed.
1. this mode will always be survivor sided,
as long as you make people 10x more interested and drawn to killer than you survivor, this isnt a bias, the ratio is 4 to 1 or 8 to 2. you need 4x more incentives to play survivor than killer, not the other way around.
this will never get fixed unless people advocate for better content incentivses to play survivor, not just for survivor mains, but for killer aswel. otherwise if you do get what you want, everyone would jump into the killer queues and never bother to play survivor, increasing the queues to 60+ mins.
this mode constantly needing 300-400% bp bonus to even sustain itself is proof enough that the mode cant handle without its survivors. which is what you are going to do with these changes.
2. the gen "problem" Has been already adressed by killing off guide,
the class made for gens for any gen rushing potetional it had by making it a troll class for wiretap and blastmine,
now the worst class in the game by wide margain.
and now also have another new class that incentivises people to throw the game more and further for flashlights saves,
as if you dont have enough people, already ignored the objective.
you got enough pressure and slowdown, from these changes, and if anything,
low tier killers like chucky and ghostface need cooldown reductions.
those killer who barely can keep up with the pallets
not a wide-basekit buff to killer that doesnt need it, like blight, spirit/oni and nurse. dominating the meta.
3. the mode needs to stay casual,
not competitive where everyone needs to aim for the wins. thats not what the mode is for.
which is why increasing the gens to 10 and reducing pallet spawns, make no sense.
in balance, maybe this would be possibility, but the mode is casual and doesnt take balance not too seriously.
4. Escapist is annoying, not overpowered.
i agree, the on demand sprint-burst makes no sense to rework or to be added.
but thats all the changes it needs. its what the class is designed for, for loopers and getting chased.
its annoying to always have the survivors sprint away the moment you start the chase,
but thats more of a killer balance problem for low tiers and maybe a class limit of 2. than a "escapist is op" problem.
5. the obvious bias to one side.
its clear that these changes only target survivors.
the side that lack the most players as i said on the first point.
and i have already said why the mode is most likely the way it is. due to points of #3 and #1.
this doesnt mean you dont play enough survivor,
but you either dont understand the gamemode or the survivor side enough,
to really understand, why these changes are not warranted or why these changes will not happen.
if you still dont understand it, ill make it a 1v4 killer comparasion to hopefully understand the frustration of,
constantly reading "nerf survivor 2v8"
i play both sides,
but we dont have enough killers playing a variety of killers.
so ill suggest this :
so lets just nerf the low-tiers because those are the "more annoying" killers to face.
y'know, the player variety that lacks most players for the killer side?.
i hope this feedback understands why these changes are counter-productive and harm the gamemode more than it does good.
thank you and have a nice day.3 -
I feel like increasing the amount of gens to 10 will not be a good way to go, true, it will be more balanced gameplay wise, but this will only increase the issue of all 2v8s so far: survivor will be even less fun to play as, and it is already borderline snoozefest as survivor because of how much the odds are in your favor and how boring it is to repair gens. If anything, I think a separate objective is a better way to go, one that isn't just holding m1 forever, but honestly can't suggest much, feel like dbd is very limited in that sense
As for pallet density, 100% agree, I could understand it if it was either a lot of pallets, but they aren't as safe, or some pallets, but they are pretty safe, but it is both a lot of pallets and they are safe, couple that with Scout ability to restore pallets, and even looping becomes extremely boring because unless it's SS tier killer, you can't do ######### about this pallets, namely, the greatly designed pallet on Yamaoka in between 2 shack sized logs. The spawns are also very inconsistent, some maps indeed have a pallet or a tile very 3m, while others have them spread around 10-15m apart
Escapist has been op for how many iterations now? I don't think they will change that, but if they do, well that would be more reason to tolerate 30 mins ques as killer. Right now though, with Escapist granting a chase start where you want? Naaaah0 -
Damn, what a text. Thanks for your detailed opinion.
Trust me, I thought about it for a long time and these are the 3 things that bother me the most about 2v8. I've also thought about things on the survivor side that bother me, but I came to the conclusion that I feel fine with it overall. Survivor is pretty easy in 2v8 - at least for me - I have a higher escape rate than in 1v4. And you won't believe it but I would call myself a survivor main. I usually play survivor / killer in a ratio of 75 to 25 %, in 2v8 it is 66,66 to 33,33 %.
There is no certain killer which is problematic in 2v8, some are strong (Nurse, Blight, Billy for example) and some are weak (Deathslinger, Trapper, Ghost Face for example). If we talk about powers you have to consider it in relation to entire DbD.
I don't see it as pessimistically as you do and I am not afraid that 2v8 will lose many players if BHVR do these changes. I'm okay with 2v8 staying survivor sided but it would be closer to being balanced. The new option "Play as survivor while waiting for a killer match" helped a lot imo.
"Guide" has already been bad before. The nerf was unnecessary, that's true, but it has never been a problem.
And I don't see "Torchbearer" as a problem. It is my favorite role to go right now besides Scout and I only go for flashlight saves if my downed mates are close to me. Of course, there always will be some people who follow the killers and try to flashlight save every survivor but these people are rare in 2v8. Many people are far too inexperienced with flashlights or flashbangs, so they chose other roles.
The "8 gens situation" often forces me to be competitive and not staying casual, even though I'd like to. You should read my second comment on this post.
I don't want to have reduced pallet spawns overall, just on certain maps like Red Forest, Greenville or Shattered Square. These maps (just talking about the 2v8 versions) have way more pallet spawns than the rest. Map balancing is one of the biggest issues in DbD, more than killer or survivor balancing imo. A map with strong loops, tiles and pallets can make weak survivors unkillable, meanwhile survivors have hardly a chance against two stealth killers like Wraith and Ghost Face on Treatment for example.
About Escapist: Even killers like Nurse, Blight, Oni etc. can struggle with this role because they can't "fake" a lunge when they use their power and Escapist lets you easily dodge it.
To your last point: Wdym with "so lets just nerf the low-tiers"? Is this sarcasm towards the devs? Or did you actually mean "buff the low-tiers"?
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Nerfing the side that lacks players is not a good idea.
Which is what my 1v4 comparasion was for.
Until bhvr is forced to add a high bp bonus just to have people playing survivor, we simply cant afford to nerf survivor.
I played 2v8 survivor soloq and its people throwing the game for flash saves and dying every 20s.
Even in an 8 man swf, its the same problem since ita considered casual.
So i dont bother playing it, as a survivor main.
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