Voice Communication (SWF) Creates an Unfair Information Advantage – We Need Game Design Solutions

The only option I really see working is number 4 but people are really against it, I personally want a ping system and pre made messages you can send to others (all tho small there are switch players who would not have access to voice even if it was added)

Option 1 does not work and the game Texas chainsaw massacre proved it, lobby dodging was insane if you where a decently leveled character in a team with others.

Option 3 would have a similar issue, all the killers would just go play against solo q leaving longer killer ques in solo q and longer survivor que in swf

Option 2 could work if properly balanced but if its anything other then working outside of a full swf it would be unfair to soloq players in the team and i see it just leading too top tiers just do better where low tiers would still struggle.

add vc everything is solved

Absolutely not. Their data shows that SWFs are not very common and they perform about as well as solo. Adding checks and balances for it would only increase paranoia as well, which has always been rampant. Everything gets blamed on them regardless of what happened.

If we were concerned about fairness, we wouldn't have Killers like Ghoul running around alongside a reinforced 60/40 KR.

Literally. BHVR doesn't want to police it and players are too scared of it, but having the option would solve all of these claims. Realistically most people would mute it and continue talking over Discord anyway.

dbd needs a ping system, SWF are not broken by any means, for SWF to be broken u will need all killers to be C tier which is not the case, A-S tier killers still more powerful than SWF, more like A tier are equally as powerful to SWF and S tiers are stronger, i would argue that Top A tiers are also slightly more powerful than SWF(we talking about 4men team). feel free to disagree, stats prove that SWFS are behind killers.

Friday the 13th walked so dbd could run I miss its prime so much

Except this makes no sense. Swf will always naturally have a advantage over solo q. People complain over lack of competence in solo q constantly yet apparently it's not any more consistent than swf when people point out that swf is stronger. Also, why are we basing this off BHVR stats when they have been the source of dbd turmoil for years. They are ALWAYS biased and don't have enjoyability in mind. They are raw stats. Multiple killers who are weak are currently staying weak because bhvr views the stats as acceptable and that is a pretty good reason to not trust their stats. And the opposite scale, super strong killers who need nerfs aren't getting nerfs because they're "fine." Super sweaty swfs are rare, that doesn't mean they're fair by any means. And the higher in mmr, the more you'll see them. I get matched up with 8k hour 3-4 mans way too often. I get curb stomped or barely pull off a 2k every time IF I'm running a A+ tier killer. This doesn't make S tiers fine, and it doesn't necessarily make SWF fine either. The problem with swf is they have way more potential than solo q. You can use way more risky high value perks than solo q. You can coordinate things that can make huge differences if you know what you're doing. This is blatantly super super strong for swf. And even if we can argue SWF isn't busted (which I think it can be with the right perks) SWF still sets a unhealthy standard to balance around. Because people can be on the same tier of skill, be in the same mmr, and it just so happens one day someone is in solo q and someone isn't. Guess what, two similar skill people are going to be performing wildly different because dbd doesn't treat swf as a seperate thing from soloq. That's a considerable problem. And it's unfair for both the solo q player and the killer because games in your mmr can become a lot harder all of a sudden even if your chases aren't any harder or your teammates aren't seemingly doing badly. The control of things you don't know if you're in swf or against swf, is gone. It's also why B tier killers are uber-######### almost as bad as lower tiers since they're good enough to consistently win against soloq and feel good, then the moment a swf strolls along that is actually trying you're probably going to lose.

Playing solo already gives you a lot of information that you didn't use to get in earlier versions.

All the survivors have icons on them that show you exactly what they are doing.

So you know exactly who is being chased, who is on a gen, who is healing, doing a totem, etc... If you want exact killer location, bring a perk for it. Combine that perk with the UI information to figure out where the killer is. I like using empathy for this when I play solo.

As someone who plays both solo and SWF, this is not a problem with the game - if this is a problem then it's a problem with lack of knowledge of how to gain information from the person playing the game. It's a matter of learning the game better, rather than requesting a "fix". Because adding all of those informational survivor icons was the fix.

Also... Not every SWF has good communication skills. You don't know my friends. They will tell me to go north... Where the heck is north?!

Solo q doesn't give you exact locations of people, what they see, and what they are preparing to do. And swf will always still have the potential to be stronger. That is undeniable. The issue here is swf and soloq are being balanced around the idea they're the same thing with the same limits when they aren't and that is a balance issue, dead stop. And please, just because you're not good in a swf doesn't mean other people aren't. I'm in multiple servers where people literally categorize maps. I've gone against swfs and streamers who have literally everything planned out. I hate the excuse of "because it isn't super common that means it's fine!" No it isn't. Not only is that limited by personal experience, that doesn't acknowledge the potential problem. Especially since your first starting point is people FINALLY get the... Bare minimum??

The point is swf basically functions as a narrator that tells you everything you need to do. And sorry, this is just a deflection from the main point. Just because something isn't super common doesn't make it fine. And it also doesn't change my statement of how mmr works. Yes, it's bad in general. Swf still boosts strength and messes with mmr because balancing soloq and swf as the same thing isn't fair for the killer end. Not to mention, the fact that swfs ARE rarer just means that it's even more unfair for killer, since they are conditioned to not learn how to face them . Its partially why the learning curve in this game is so bad on the killer side. You are facing two things at any given time. And about your solo matches, the point is not about you alone getting decent info. It's about a steady stream at the ready at any given time back and forth. Just because, once again, you manage the bare minimum doesn't mean that things at their worst are suddenly fine. The issue here is you're trying to push balancing issues solely onto mmr. When that's just not the sole reason.

This game stopped being a horror game the moment looping became normalized and off hook endurance became weaponized. People play for effectiveness now. That has been the case for years. And that is not going to change anymore, this game isn't casual. Also, I find it to not be "silly" at all. It's unfair to both soloq and killer for swf to exist in the state it's in. Bhvr treats swf as if it's the same as soloq and this leads to massive learning curve issues on the killer side and enabling swf to have said narrator at all times. A lot of people on dbd would love that narrator you're talking about. Because they wouldn't care about how goofy it is, they want to win. Even so, you're exaggerating. They wouldn't add a narrator, they'd more than likely add a talking wheel to share information and the ability to observe perks in the pre-game lobby. These could easily slot in on the side of the screen as being over survivor heads. Also, once again, swf would just make mmr harder to balance. Why do you keep going back to this being a fix all thing. I already explained in full how giving so much control and not a truly accounting for it in balance is a problem. This would lead to bloat in mmr and would still make mmr unstable. If anything that's still a part of the problem. You want people to be in a swf, be In high mmr they don't need to be in, then wonder why they're getting stomped? The point is if swf is to be the standard, then soloq has to be on its level. For the sake of being fair to everyone who is playing.

So you admit there is a problem. With swf in the state it's in, people who play swf often will be in higher mmr. They'll more than likely have a harder time since currently dbd lacks the ability to give information. And that's unfair to the survivor to be put in a mmr they can't maintain 24/7. Since how mmr works now is that swfs get into higher mmrs. Even if mmr was better, this would still happen slowly over time.

Thanks for basically repeating what I said. Basically all the other stuff you said is whataboutism and putting words in my mouth. Cry about swf? I'm not asking for a swf nerf. I'm asking for a foundation to have proper game balance on. I never said I want swf gutted. If all you can do is make stuff up then don't even bother trying to debate.

But moving on, you're also not everyone. People do play casually, some people don't. The overall idea of balancing swf as a basis and a standard, is to close the power gap between soloq and swf. So more casual players will struggle less, and tryharding as a swf won't have as many advantages as it does now. And killers can be properly balanced around this standard and killers could have a easier time learning the meta game of this game. The whole idea of this a is to make it so it's just more fair, and there can be more diversity in players. And you won't feel a need to sweat as much as you used to. The biggest difference between the best and the worst is the meta game. The reason SWF is so good is it ignores a part of the meta game. So the best way to fix the gap is to make it so everyone can do that to some degree and balance the game around it. Thats not a shocking revelation. And by doing this, it means people who play casually also have access to this, so people who tryhard no longer have a overwhelming advantage of both being rare and also dont have a advantage over most killers that are just new. Because the game adjusts for this.

All you're trying to do is belittle me for wanting a balanced game. Trying to passively claim that because you're a majority (in which you know nothing about me) and that makes my opinion invalid. Genuinely, you should stay on topic instead of being a child and getting personal over me basically saying "I want game to be more fair." You're wasting both our time at this point. If you can't grasp the concept people have fun in different ways, hop off. Seriously. I wasn't even saying playing for fun is invalid. I'm saying in this hostile cesspool of a game playing purely for fun is super hard. Because people feel like they need to try hard, because most people have the most fun when they win. And that'll always be what people want to do. If everyone was playing at a closer level the game would immediately become more tolerable to play.

There is no world where swf and soloq being the same strength or at least close is a bad thing. Either swf is slightly weaker because things are balanced around it and therefore the game is more consistent and enjoyable, or soloq becomes more tolerable.

no. this is also your assumption here. im not saying "remove swf" im saying "bring up the power of the game around swf, so the game can be more fair for everyone." I'm not saying remove it.

also, when i point out that matchmaking im pointing out thats the current standard, and that trying to move current SOLOQ/SWF onto a new MMR system wouldnt work because the power potential of the two heavily influences your mmr and how much stronger you are/arent without it. The point is, this IS how MMR works in the modern day, right now. I'm not saying it SHOULD be like this, im saying it IS like this. And its unfair to everyone involved including the people in the SWF. You would know this if you saw how MMR works in this game.

Also, you cannot blame me for getting a little mad when it looks like youre just ignoring what im saying and making passive aggressive comments toward me. No wonder im a little upset about that. Like, there is proof that you're not really reading what im saying when you said "What should people do? Stop having friends?" I never said anything even close to this in ALL I said. Not once. Thats why im a little upset with you, you're not paying attention to what I'm saying basically at all. And all the things I tried to make points with, you basically said nothing about and just… complained about something I didn't talk about at all. Or either that, make up a fictitious extreme scenario to get mad over. (Ex : The Narrator telling you what to do/Claim I want people punished for playing SWF)

I was just trying to have a discussion, but if you just keep accusing me of being aggressive towards you then I don't see a point in continuing.