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an Idea for DS change
- Ds can now trigger twice per match (per 2unhooks) (if miss skillcheck it still works next time)
- Ds does not activate if grabbed from locker or window,pallet.
- Once all generators are completed Ds no longer work at all (if have ds before all gens activated then it gets disabled once generators are completed)
- Ds is now 80second perk
- Ds is DEACTIVATED when another person gets hooked.
What do you guys think? as a both rank 1killer who doesn't tunnel but gets ds'd at the exit or when someone forces me to pick them from locker is dumb and as a rank 1 survivor which now will make ds a anti-tunnel perk with this change for sure
Comments
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My main issue with it is that survivors who have DS are allowed to do risky plays. When a survivor gets rescued infront of you, and you go for the rescuer only to get hit by DS from THAT person...
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that happens to me rarily but there also can be a change to this post that DS gets deactivated when another survivor gets hooked? thats good change right?
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The only change I want to see is that the DS gets deactivated when another survivor gets downed + hooked after the DS user got unhooked. Make DS an anti-tunnel perk, not a 60-seconds-immunity perk.
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I changed my post, what do you think about it now? :P
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im ok with this
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Personally, I think this perk would still be powerful after these nerfs.
Edit: By "powerful" I don't mean that it would be too strong.
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doesnt need changing. and having it deactivate because someone else gets hooked would make it useless. it's already up to the killer whether or not they get hit by ds, stop giving it more limitations
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Why would the perk become useless? It would still be an anti-tunnel perk.
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just saying that DS suppose to be perk that helps people who get tunneled right after unhook, not 45secs later when survivor shows up later just to use up DS
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because then it becomes overly simple to avoid (already is honestly, don't attempt to rehook the guy who was on hook less than a minute ago). right now u have to rely on the killer's mistake to use ds. the only time this version of it would proc is if the killer was really bad, and at that point why would u need it.
why is it supposed to just be anti tunnel? if a guy runs into u later clearly wanting to use ds, slug them and punish the rest of the team with the free pressure
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well what if killer can't slug because he goes into closet and then you can only wait there and waste time while others do gens? :D
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if he's the one showing up to use his ds, how convenient is it for him to grab your attention and find a locker before u can hit them? better question, how could u not be occupied with someone else when they show up 45 seconds later? if they're sitting near a locker trying to flag u down, don't take the bait
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Ds should trigger on a mori.
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anyone that complains about this probably abuses ds+bt combo to make saves with their swf group.
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You should also make it so if you’re downed than the timer stops because I’ve had multiple killers wait out my ds
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well that wouldn't make sense, if a survivor gets downed and killer is just waiting then other survivors can do gens :/ the only change that would be possible that the timer would go down 50% slower when downed
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That still works, cuz I’ve been farmed and then instantly downed and stared at (because I play a p2 Laurie) so they know I have decisive and just wait it out.
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ehm sir, how is bt abusing? :D
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I think he means using BT to protect the unhooked, while the unhooker has an active DS
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well that's why I suggested this idea, this wouldn't be happening anymore *-*
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Not again ...
D.S. is fine rn.
D.S. is not OP it's because you tunneled them.
D.S. disables within a minute.
If it doesn't activate in lockers then why even have the perk?
So you are telling me if i did the last gen and I get hooked and a survivor saves me and you tunnel me I shouldn't escape off your shoulders? Especially if you have N.O.E.D?
AND it disabling when another survivor gets hooked RENDERS THE PERK USELESS. @Peanits even looked at most of these suggestions and stated it would make the perk too OP or too Useless.
Sorry these changes are unlikely. Especially since it's in a good place.
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From what DS was before to what it is now, I'm fine with. I don't see why it needs to be changed further.
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I wouldn't say that they're OP or useless, I would at most say that they're unnecessary. Having it disable when another survivor is hooked is great on paper, but that just means that if I have two slugged, I can hook them both back to back and then return to tunnel the first guy freely. Having it disable in lockers also seems unnecessary to me. If the goal is to punish the killer for tunneling, being "safe" in a locker doesn't seem unfair.
I would, however, say that this would be way too many conditions for one perk. Imagine having to put all of this into the perk description. It would be a novel.
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Chapter one: Lockers
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you say if it doesn't activate on lockers then why even use the perk? lol so your pretty much agreeing to the fact people can come back 40secs after unhook and force killers to open locker so you could just use up your ds? you know ds in an anti-tunnel perk not to waste killers time and screw up they're momentum.
Yes killer can have noed and everything but you know how annoying it is when you hook somebody right next to the exit gate and they get an easy escape once they're unhooked and i know lot of people get frustrated by this.
the perk disabling when other person gets hooked means the person is not being tunneled anymore, so it's kind of dumb to say it makes it useless and i'm saying this again it's an anti-tunnel perk and that's what it should be, not something used to waste killers time while he's trying to catch other people then the unhooked person
And after all you can use my version of DS twice for 80seconds so all of that with this i think makes it all very balanced imo
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The perk working in lockers absolutely has to go bye bye.
It costs nothing for a survivor to do.
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If you want DS to deactivate upon hooking someone else, then let’s add these changes:
- Timer now lasts for as long as it takes to hook someone else. There’s no more clock. Why should the survivors ability to run from a tunneling killer (or the killers ineffectiveness in chase) be put on a time limit?! Tunneling is tunneling, whether it’s 5 seconds, or he’s chasing me for 2 minutes. Sorry but the “if the killer is chasing you for over a minute he’s been punished enough” logic doesn’t apply. The tunneler is not the victim.
- DS now works against moris. No more tunneling off hook and using a mori if I have DS (unless you hook someone else first, obviously) The killer is now stunned during the animation. EDIT- probably requires too much work. Instead, it is now no longer possible to mori a person with DS until the killer hooks someone else.
Post edited by Karl_Childers on4 -
that would be really hard to do for devs :D
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The stun during mori would definitely take some work lol, but you could also not do the stun but instead just have the person unable to be mori’ed until the killer hooks someone else. I think it’s fair as well as there being no more clock.
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There can be situations where DS is activated moments before another survivor is hooked. i.e. basement parties. Should DS be disabled in this situation too?
If a survivor wants to waste a minute in a locker, let them.
I do like though, how the forums were full of how useless DS would be after the nerf and here we are complaining about it again.
From someone who cursed the very existence of DS before the change, I say get over it.
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If within 60 seconds of being unhooked or unhooking yourself, you are put into the dying State, decisive strike is active. That's the change I want to see.
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If this were to be an actual change made killers would shift to pure slugging builds and down the entire team before hooking anyone. Even if you kobe you'd just get slugged again and since the bleedout timer is roughly 4mins and you're wasting 80 seconds of it on the floor you're just gonna see yourself getting pretty close to bleeding out on the floor. What fun the game does have will be gone.
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But like Peantis, stated below my comment it is Unnecessary and if you have 2 people slugged then DS would be useless since if one has DS and you hook one of the slugged without the DS then the other's DS would be useless but you just tunneled them.
Then hiding in a locker doesn't make you safe. You tunneled them so they hid in a locker. And you searched the locker knowing anyway that you tunneled them So... It's still an Anti-Tunnel perk.
And if you have N.O.E.D you would still get a down you don't need to tunnel. So... DS wouldn't even be used if you slug em' all at the end game. Will some crawl out? Yes Obviously, but will some get hooked. Yes. (Also you also forget the fact Killers have free Moris like Rancor and Devour Hope. AND they get a free 1 Shot. Soo... Guess how frustrating this will be for Survivors...)
80 Seconds? Didn't you say that finding them 40 Seconds later was too much of a hassle? Keep the perk how it is. These changes are not necessary and will never be.
If you need a reference to what Peantis said here:
But, your changes would make people using D.S. from 75% to 15% if these changes DID roll out because in my own opinion this is like a nerf to the entire perk. No buffs to be seen. 80secs? Not needed. 60 seconds? Definitely needed.
IMO these changes would make the perk more useless than Bill's Left Behind Perk. (Which Devs have yet to look into..)
Your specified changes wouldn't discourage tunneling but in fact encourage it.
The current D.S. is fine and these changes never will be necessary to have.
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I never stated to use any Perk. I stated killers have perks to guess what.. KILL or INSTA-DOWN. What perks do Survivors have? D.S. and B.T.
And... They made Left Behind better in the Endgame Collapse. Your point is..?
Left Behind:
Post edited by Micheal_Myers on0 -
Idea for ds change:
After you got unhooked the perk is active for 100 seconds.
If you are downed and the killer is further than 8 meters from you, the timer of the perk is paused until the killer is back within 8 meters range.
💁
Post edited by Larisa on2 -
You made my point. Not this thread but one back when everyone said DS would become useless after the change. Almost word for word, so thank you.
Too the point though, if you were chasing a survivor and they jump into a locker. Sounds like, to borrow from survivor speak, tunneling.
If you see an obsession indicator you are going have to play using different tactics. If I'm able to quickly down a freshly unhooked survivor, I'm going to take it then proceed to chase the unhooker. This has the affect of wasting time for three survivors. If the unhooked jumps into locker before I can reach them, there's the one that unhooked them.
If you really hate the survivor in the locker, you can wait 60s for them to jump out.
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Change the tittle to "How I want to overnerf DS so I can tunnel more"
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Yeah, been there, been stabbed, don't care.
Maybe its my bias from having to go through being punshed for winning a chase, that this new perk doesn't seem so bad in comparison.
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You guys are frigging dumb. DS activates for one minute, and then it's gone. Can you really not just go deal with other survivors for one minute, when you see someone is marked as your obsession?
The whole point of the perk is to force you to leave that one survivor alone after they've been hooked. Adding a whole bunch of stipulations to prevent it from working as intended would be idiotic.
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Look, I'm a Myers. As each killer I play I enact as their role as if they were in a movie. (Survivor not that much since.. Rank 20's can ruin a Rank 11-1's day) But as killer I take my time, Provide pressure and tunnel/slug if needed.
I don't usually tunnel, so most of the time if I get struck by D-Strike I shrug it off and go put pressure on Gens again. D.Strike for me at it's current state allows tunneling to diminish since I don't want it to happen to me again. So I tend to be more careful of how D.Strike works.
So D.S. in reality doesn't need a Nerf nor a Buff. It's as good as it will get.
Left Behind allows The Survivor a 50/50 chance like in the old Version of the game at the risk of wasting a Perk slot. But, most of the time you as a survivor have No idea where the hatch is. (Especially since sound is kinda bugged cause when I was a Myers after a Laurie on Haddonfield I should have heard the hatch that was like 5 Feet from me but couldn't So she got the hatch 🤨 but I gave her a GG anyway lol). So it would be helpful for them. But in return I'd say slow the survivor's aura or something like that. (Also I never been on the PTB so I don't know any perk changes)
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Deactivating it in a locker would go against the purpose of the perk. The survivor SHOULD be incentivized to force the issue, or bluff if they're marked as the obsession.
The point of the perk is to make the killer leave you alone. That is why you dedicated an entire perk slot to it, to guard against the killer tunneling you -- which is the only scenario where hopping in a locker would be beneficial, because DS only activated for one minute.
Pausing the perk's clock while the survivor is slugged would be an amazingly bad idea, because it would take away the one piece of counterplay that the killer has during edge cases -- i.e. triggering DS at the end of the game and surrendering the kill entirely.
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At red ranks you will see at a minimum 2 DS per game, usually 3 or all 4 survivors will have it. And one minute is an insanely long time when all the gens can get done in 3-4 minutes or less.
Sometimes the games are so fast that you will go hook a survivor, go off, down and hook someone else, then come back to that area and down that survivor again and they STILL have DS up. Meanwhile, 2 gens got knocked out. That is balance.
All the people who say "it's just a 5 second stun!" never take into account that it usually lets the survivor get to another slew of pallets, extending the chase for potentially minutes depending on how BS the nearby loops are.
Right now, DS is a either a free go work half a gen card, or a completely free escape if you are hooked near an exit gate.
Pretty terrible game design, and the workaround is basically to not let survivors get unhooked in the first place; or play the overpowered killers who can deal with 4x DS.
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I don't mean to be dramatic -- I'm using "leave you alone" to mean "not tunnel." DS just isn't going to be a major issue most of the time, if you're not hyperfocused on one survivor.
And re: "But at red ranks there's at least seventy DS perks, and gens finish as soon as you spawn in!" arguments, these are edge cases that don't apply to 99% of players or matches, and shouldn't be used as a realistic balance target.
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So many survivor mains here that know decisive strike is unbalanced, but will say anything to convince people it isn't so they can keep their pacifier perk.
But numbers don't lie. 4 survivors with ds get 240 seconds of immunity combined. That's 3 gens done when playing against an optimal team. Lockers are an exploit and have nothing to do with tunnelling. Working on a gen not worrying about getting grabbed, and so on, and so forth.
It not anti-tunnelling, it's anti-killer. if you want it To be anti-tunnelling make it 30 seconds, or disable ds after someone else has been downed, or even better delet it from the game.
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You and I must have very different definitions of tunneling. In your scenario if you have 2 people slugged and hang both of them, isn't that a prime example of NOT tunneling?
At that point it just sounds like the survivor team is simply being outplayed and the killer is being punished for spreading his pressure, downing multiple survivors quickly, and not single-mindedly focusing one survivor. There are a limited number of survivors to go after per game, and that number (optimistically) goes down throughout the game.
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Your experience is anecdotal. I can respond by saying that, in purple ranks, what you're describing rarely happens in my experience, and Decisive Strike is never used by all four survivors. That's also anecdotal.
Balancing around the idea that all four survivors will coordinate all of their perks and all of their positions and activities, and play with ruthless efficiency to the extent that three gens are getting completed in the first two minutes, is super-unrealistic. Using that scenario as the target would probably make the killer so powerful that it would be nearly impossible to escape at low ranks. Then we would be here complaining about an entirely different set of issues that I suspect would impact a significantly larger chunk of the player base.
If DS is an issue, just go chase someone else, and/or slug the guy and pressure their teammates to get off gens and come heal them. It's an obstacle that you have to play around, if you suspect someone is running it, just like any other perk or item. If I'm playing Spirit and someone is using Iron Will, my solution isn't to run to the forums and ask them to make the perk not do what it was designed to do; my solution is probably to leave that guy alone short-term, unless I catch him in an inopportune spot. If I see someone in the lobby with a toolbox, hey, I'm probably going to prioritize that survivor if I see them.
All this hand-wringing over DS particularly baffles me, because it's a perk with specific conditions and drawbacks that can be played around, and in most cases you can reliably predict whether the obsession has it. And also, if you didn't tunnel people in the first place, it wouldn't even matter.
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No. DS is balanced as it is. The only nerf I could see coming is the STUN from 5 seconds to 4. But aside from that, DS is fine.
(3 seconds wold make it trash because that's only 12m worth of distance).
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Ds honestly shouldn't work during egc
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Ds is fine.
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