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Nerf keys
Comments
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so if its telling me that my Latency is 35 ms would that still be my internet? i mean its not the best but its damn near. And honestly this is the only game it happens on. I never have issues on BO4 which if it is mine then I should see it on there as well I'd think
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3 people could never escape with 2 gens left. Rule of hatch is the number of gens repaired has to be greater than the number of survivors alive in order for it to appear.
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They have killed:
Medkit
Flashlight
Toolbox
So of course a killer main would want the last item survivor has to be nerfed as well, right?
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Sorry? The medkit update is a buff to medkits from what I've read, only the pink insta got nerfed.
Flashlights are on a perfect spot and toolboxes are still strong, i dont know what you're talking about.
Maybe for you the nerf of an OP addon is "killing the item" but that cant be further away from truth
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Counter to spirit? Use iron will lmao
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i don’t understand why all flame about keys, if every time someone have a key he get tunnel like never, and lets be honest 4man escape from hatch is very very very extremely rare, never happened to me, however I don’t feel nothing when 1or more ppl escape with a key, like I don’t care when I use a mori if survivor are pissed of. The keys are find
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4-man escapes with a Key are fine in my book for the reasons you stated, but I wouldn't call Keys fair overall since they, like Moris, can suddenly cut the game short out of nowhere regardless of what the tempo of the game is up until that point or who had the advantage at that moment.
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@Mochan
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
This is exactly what I’ve been saying!
People in these forums just love to complain about things with no context of what took place during the match, because as long as they had a bad match where someone escaped with a key “It’s unfair”.
Yesterday alone I died 4 times with a key in my hand. A key doesn’t automatically guarantee an escape. Period.
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Not to mention - if keys really bother you that much - you have options for dealing with it. Not the least of which is arming certain perks.
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The problem isn't that a Key is a guaranteed escape (because it's not). The problem is that it can cut the game short to the benefit of one side with no extra effort required and with no downsides.
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I don't think there is a single perk that deals with Keys meaningfully. Franklin's doesn't do it because it does not matter that the Key is on the floor as long as someone can pick it up when it's convenient or necessary to do so.
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@TAG And doing 5/4/3 generators isn't a requirement?
As Mochan said, performing a Mori actually requires less objective time.
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I said "no extra effort required," not "no requirements."
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@TAG And why should they?
Why should they when the killer side has something that can equally if not more take you out of the game early?
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Neither side should have access to that. Nerf keys and Moris.
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@TAG I don't have a problem with Ebony Moris either, so this is where we're gonna agree to disagree.
That's why I want neither nerfed.
Should they be made more uncommon? Sure. By all means. I think the Bloodweb system for ultra rare things is busted as it is. A player should not be seeing these on every single bloodweb page.
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I have a problem with both, and thus I think both should be nerfed. Increasing the rarity doesn't solve the problem because it does not change how problematic either one is in an individual match.
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JFC🙄 Y’all are wild. The whole lot of you.
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Just like with moris, its part of the game and is fine the way it is. Does it suck when it happens to you? Sure, but just move onto the next game.
I might see a key escape once every other week. They are not frequent and honestly if you play a decent game its a non-issue. 3 swf need to complete 4 gens for the hatch to spawn. You have 4 gens worth of time to disrupt and kill. Plus if you see a key, bring Franklins. Yes I know its not a direct counter but it sure messes up survivors plans and causes further delays.
I see people bring keys in all the time at the end of match... and they never got the chance to use them.
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@TAG Yeah cuz every single match is the same. I've escaped when the killer had an Ebony Mori, and I've also died when I had a skeleton key. Go figure.
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Keys are fine just the way there are. If you are truly bother by people escaping through hatch which requires them to do gens, because you wanna 4k is dumb. And THE "If the killer closes the hatch you shouldn't be able to open the hatch back up is dumb as well." A survivors objective is to survive just as a killers objective is to kill. You lose some you win some. It's not like every game someone has a key anyway. You have many tools as killer to help you. I literally got tunneled by a spirit for simply having a key because they wanna a 4k and scared of depiping. it's pathetic.
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3 people escaping from the hatch with one gen left is absolutely unfair. Keys are bad design and should be removed.
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I didn't say every match plays out the same. The point is that you need to look at them in the context of how they affect trials when they are in play, not simply in the context of how often someone will run into an opponent using one.
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Apparently there is an island... where every survivor brings a Skeleton key. Every killer brings an Ebony Mori. I just can't seem to find it on the map.
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@TAG As I said before again and again... I do look at the context of how they are used. Which is why I agreed with @Mochan 's post.
You can't determine if the odds are going to be in your favor SIMPLY because of the usage of an item.
The only reason I brought up how often you think you see them is because that is relative to the conversation. They are categorized as "Ultra Rare", meaning you shouldn't be seeing them in the bloodweb as often as you do.
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I wanna say this. 3 people cannot escape via hatch with 2 gens remaining. Hatch doesn't spawn until the number of survivors left, plus one gens are done. So 3 people would have to get 4 gens done. Sorry, but you can't argue a point when you don't even know the game. Keys are fine. I play both survivor and killer, do I get upset when I play a game well and 2 people escape or more? Yes, but it's a part of the game. Get over it.
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No.
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And ? I saw countless of red ranks killers losing ( aka 0 or 1 kill ) with Ivory/Ebony Moris too. A Mori doesn't guarantee a win either.
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Instead of fighting against each other, I think it would be healthier if we would just nerf Moris and Keys together, so any side gets frustrated by them anymore.
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Keys:
-New action where key is inserted into the hatch and turned
-Turning the key fully takes 7 seconds for each survivor left alive when inserted (i.e. 14s if there are 2 survivors)
-Survivors can remove the key at any time, but that resets progress
-Once inserted, the killer is notified that the hatch is being opened (they are not told where)
-Opening the hatch makes a distinct sound audible up to 32m
-Killer can stomp on hatch to begin regressing the opening process (regresses 1 second of progress every 2 seconds)
-Once fully regressed, the key pops out of the hatch and sits next to it
-Once opened, key is consumed and hatch stays open until the killer closes it
-Once the killer closes it, hatch re-locks (unless there's only one survivor left)
The idea is to turn key escapes into an alternate escape route rather than an easy getaway. For instance, if you are 3-genned and there are only 3 survivors left. This could bring in some strategy, such as having 2 survivors keep the killer busy at the hatch while the 3rd finishes a gen. I'm on the fence whether hatch-grabs should be possible. Grab interrupts on the person opening it would be though.
Another idea for keys separate from above is to allow them to recharge passively while the survivor is in a chase. This would make their other function more useful.
Moris:
-Cypress: Unchanged
-Ivory: Only works on death hook survivor; final survivor can be mori'd anytime
-Ebony: Only works on death hook survivors; final survivor can be mori'd anytime
If this isn't enough, maybe add a requirement for a certain number of gens to be done before getting the mori's (3 gens for 1st mori, 4 for 2nd, 5 for 3rd, last survivor always able to be mori'd).
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@Jonny_XMan
Ah yes, I also heard this island has nothing but Spirit mains using prayer beads ^^"
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You sound upset. Are you hungry? Here, have a Snickers.
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I actually have a Username on console thats saying that i want the mori. After years of playing i just like to be deaded with another animation then the umpteenth hook. I think moris are fine the way that they are now, not just downing people but hooking before that.
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no skill killers crying about keys now? jesus maybe all survivors should lose the ability to run
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You shouldn’t go around swinging the nerf bat purely cause someone finds something frustrating.
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These are some pretty good ideas. I think your first Mori idea would work better because it would suck to distract a Killer for at least three gens only to get Moried when they finally down you and there is an achievement where you have to Mori all four Survivors. With your second Mori idea, the Killer would have to let all five gens get completed and then hope to go on a Mori spree. The last Survivor is most likely not going to stick around after they realize the Killer can Mori them and will leave the moment the door is open.
@Peanits You guys should take a look at these ideas when looking at adjusting keys or Moris.
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No keys are fine the way they are. For 4 survivors to get out though the hatch all gens need to be done so they deserve the escape. Keys are balanced the way they are. The only nerf that i would give to keys if they needed nerfing would be a 2 second action of putting the key in the hatch and jumping in.
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In order for a key to be effectively used, a team must have already been able to do extremely well against the killer. If you lose all five gens, and then they escape through the hatch, then you've done something wrong. Not only have they found a key, found the hatch, and gotten all the gens. If two escape, then that's alright. If three escape, then once again, you've probably messed up somehow.
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And Survivors asking for BBQ to be nerfed. I mean, both sides do this.
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Then don't nerf any of them and people should accept the game is unfair sometimes.
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You failed to kill all survivors and they completed all the gens. win is earned and justified. deal with it
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Keys are used in one of four ways as far as opening the Hatch:
1) All Survivors have finished the gens and are still alive, so they use the Key to escape at the end of the game.
2) One or two Survivors have died, and someone is using the Key to jettison the entire remaining party with gens left unfinished.
3) One or two Survivors have died, and someone is using the Key regardless of whether their teammates are nearby because screw it I want out.
4) Everyone else is dead, the Killer has closed the Hatch, but luckily for that last Survivor, they still have a Key to pop it back open and still make the escape.
IMO, Scenario 1 is fine because the game is already in the final stage, and at that point, it's just an alternate method of escape.
Scenario 4 is also fine because at that point, the Killer has basically already won the game, and the last Survivor is just ensuring that they can at least salvage things for themself.
Scenario 2 is the big issue in my book because the Survivors are just shortcutting to the end of the game through no additional necessary effort and with no way for the opposition to really fight against it. It's just suddenly...done.
Scenario 3 is also sorta problematic but less so than Scenario 2 because while the Survivor in question is securing an early escape and allowing for the opportunity for the rest to escape, the fact that they are just going for it regardless of what the other Survivors are doing means that the Killer has a semi-reasonable chance to cut off escape for those Survivors.
You want context? There's your context.
The fact of the matter is that by just having a key, you are placing yourself in an noticeably advantageous position to end the game early in your team's favor (or at the very least, not in the Killer's favor) with no downside or no extra effort needed. That just ain't fair in my opinion.
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@TAG And yet there are more scenarios involved than you you list.
What you describe are only a few ways the key could get used. Most of the time people won’t just leave through the hatch unless it’s the only way out. Especially since having 3 gens and two teammates alive means nothing because the killer still has the upper hand.
This is still just your opinion. Nothing more. As I said before we’ll just agree to disagree because I don’t think they are as broken as you think.
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List some other scenarios of the Key being used on the Hatch? Those are the only four I could think of. I guess there is also "use it by yourself after all gens are done," but that seems downright counterproductive.
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As long as Killers have abilities such as Insta Downs & Mori's I don't think keys should be touched.
Do I think keys are OP? No, but they are annoying to deal with when playing as killer.
Why is Insta Down / Mori worse? Because Insta downs cut a chase in half and a Mori can literally be used at the start of match.
Yes I am a survivor main but I do also play killer, if keys were to be changed then in order to keep "balance" then some things on the killers side would also need to be change. To be honest the keys themselves are ok, yeah using them mid chase is pretty cheesy but so is an exhaustion hatchet or an insta down etc. If anything instead of touching the keys themselves they should rework when the hatch spawns. 3/4 people all gens complete 1/2 people 2 gens left.
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@TAG What I think you are not seeing is how you can’t just escape simply because you have met the amount of gens repaired.
Many times it boils down to the killer...how good they are... what they are running...what map you’re on... etc. Keys are still unpredictable because you might get found before you can even use them.
Which is why I said not every match will have the same result just because someone has a key. Especially in solo surviving.
Also the other point is these are suppose to be ultra rare, to me something that is deemed to be that rare better do something amazing.
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I asked for more scenarios, please. Not a change of discussion to avoid answering what I was saying.
Also, what you are describing is just a normal game of DBD, not anything specific to the Keys. That is the problem: the fact that you don't need to do anything that you don't already have to do to get this big benefit. That was the problem with insta-heals, that is the problem with Moris, that is the problem with Keys.
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Nah, keys are fine you have to work for it. Moris are not, killer can just tunnel them to death and thats not difficult.
If you have a problem with keys use Franklins....
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Completing all the gens isn't a win. Not sure what that has to do with anything that is being talked about here though. You don't need to do ANY gens to escape through the hatch and 3 remaining survivors don't need to finish the gens to escape through the hatch....
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By this logic, Moris are fine because you have to work to down someone two times.
(That logic is silly IMO, and neither Moris nor Keys are fine in my book.)
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