According to BHVR's own stats
Comments
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The Hag was the reason I initially picked up the game and ever since she is my most beloved killer.
She has a very strategical playstyle and cannot simply run down the survivors like a hillbilly. (good hillbilly still needs skill and his chainsaw jumps, curves and flicks are amazing to pull off!)
You need to lay out your web, understand how the survivors will react and lure them into your web.
That's not everyone's favorite playstyle, plus she needs some set up time.
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The problem is if you wanted to compare the powers of killer you would need to compare killers without perks and addons. Just looking at this chart and saying "but freddy kills more than Spirit" completly misses the point that a killer is more than just his power, it´s also his usage of perks and addons that make a killer kill as much as they do. @Peanits Thanks for the statistics they are pretty interessting.
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I do admit Hag is one of the most galaxy brain killers in the game. From an outside perspective it's honestly very entertaining to watch Hag gameplay. The mindgames and strategy is admirable.
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@UncannyLuck That's what he is doing for the whole time. Picking up stats, representing them in a wrong way, drawing false conclusions, making them up for his opinion. I already thought "what a waste of time I put into my post clarifying this, simply getting ignored, getting another post wqith the same **** "
@PickCollins You are still ignoring that the ultra bad console performeance of nurse is part of the chart you are refering to. And SEVERAL other points missing in this chart like Peanits mentioned. Like this is raw numbers across the board. Factors like "non-nurse-mains currently testing her because of the change" and of course main-nurses that need to adapt atm.
"I had said "the only reason" because I can't think of any reason" that's exactly what I criticised. It is a tiny difference in text to add "for me" after "the only reason", but without it you present it as fact being the only thing possible. Sorry if I'm too petty on this one, but many people reading too fast or not think about it take it and get biased.
Also the "muscle memory" statement is false. Nothing changed on her muscle memory by adding blink delay. And as said before, if you think a viable killer should get regular 3-4k, you are simply wrong. If that was the case to you, you give the perfect example of an OP killer. If she is no fun to you by not getting regular 4k, then you are going to have a problem with this game on the long run. Then you might have to stick on Freddy as long as he will get no nerf, then switch to the next best performing killer as soon as Freddy gets the nerf...
@Akhaten Probably because this might take a whole stream or even more to clarify. And with subliminal comments like to not_Queen you can be sure to be ignored or get sarcastic comments
@Endstille your logic is flawed. In what school did you learn that a 4 man team has any impact on a thousands people statistics? Or any statistical relevance? Omans gave an example and did not justify any statistics. He said 'they are not potatoes' in contrast of what you read from it. Sure we just can believe if this is true and they did not fail in chases. But Omans just stated that chases are still over pretty quickly if you can blink properly. Also he said "it is guaranteed" not "I guarantee". And "you know" that people suck in chase if they get downed within 20 sec? Ok. Regarding the bulls* I get accused from other survivors that are not even near me like "u did nothing" I'm pretty sure you also think to know much more of a game than you possibly can. You take judgement on tiny fragments would be my guess
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Okay I'm not going to disagree with you completely... maybe bhvr can dial the cooldown in a bit to where it doesn't feel as bad as it does for some players...
With that said can you start using the proper term for what she recieved... which is an update and a nerf... rework is not what she recieved.... not even close.
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People who are still crying about spirit are just the bad spirits. If you needed prayer beads to win, you were a bad spirit. If you needed to bump into survivors to find them, you were a bad spirit. If you relied on not having a window vault animation, you were a bad spirit. Same with the nurse. I do agree they went a little overboard by changing her base power, but her addon changes were fair. If you required 5 blinks, you were a bad nurse. If you required omega blink, you were a bad nurse.
Both the nurse and the spirit are still extremely strong, but with the new balance changes it becomes slightly more difficult to learn how to play as them. A larger penalty for missing your blink. Not being able to run into a survivor for a free hit while phasing. The removal of very broken addon combinations. None of these things effect really good nurses and spirits. All you have to do is play a little better, put in a little more effort, get a little more practice, and you will be absolutely fine.
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@TheKingOfAll Just a minor disagree on the omega nurse :P If you were a bad nurse, you couldnt handle omega blinks in chase. At least I encountered that a lot. Sure she could pressue gens better, but I'm not a master baiter (jokes incoming) against nurse, and bad nurses for me were blinking too far in chase. I sometimes even got irritated by nurses vanishing behind the walls I was running at :)
On all other things I agree with you
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Basekit changes effect everyone regardless of what addons they were using.
No, it isn't just a small change, it affected a lot of her kit and effectively eradicated her mind-games.
No, you don't need to put in a little more effort, you need to completely change the way you play Nurse otherwise you end up making chases last so long you think you're in a joke game.
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Maybe you should try to comprehend what I actually said. But I will skip some passive-agressive comment about your school education.
Omans did say that he can guarantee that the majority of people are fine with the changes that is literally what he wrote, check his post and check my quote of it.
"It's frustrating seeing the same nurse mains make post after post after post about the nurse changes when I can guarantee the vast majority of people are fine with them."Furthermore I never did say anything about having an impact on statistics with my swf. I gave an example as to why doubt his entire story in which he claimed
I played a game with her yesterday at rank 1. 4k on farm map. The only mistake the survivors made was 2 of them spawning next to each other.Sorry but if you actually believe that the survivors did play perfect (remember the only mistake in the entire game was spawning next to each other [which is something they do not have any influence on without playing an offering]) and chases end super quickly than they sure as hell did not play without mistakes and instead did alot of them. His story doesn't add up at all since he 4ked them. Yeah sure I am gonna wait for the video, really wanna enjoy those perfect survivors that go down so quickly in chases yet play without mistakes.
The actually sad part about all of that is that
- I have to post this again in hopes you might be able to understand
- People like Omans completely ignore the feedback from people
- People like him take a single game as proof for anything
- people like him equal fun=power
- are unable to comprehend what the nurse players actually said
- reduce feedback of nurseplayers to some strawman about Omega/5 Blink
When in reality most nurse players (the ones on this forum) actually agreed that omega/3;4;5-Blinks needed to go.
I challenge you, go through these forums and find me the outraged nurse mains that those addons are gone, i didn't read that and if actually somebody said that he wants it back even these evil nurse mains would explain to him that this needed to go and why it was op.
So these evil nurse mains that already played her with the basekit back when all this broken stuff existed, now get told, hahaha git gud you n00b, adapt boy, you just want omega/3;4;5 blinks back.
That is the way that @Omans argues on the forums, the way that alot of people do to ignore actually constructive criticism another did this this really classic to when asking if people are on crack (shows how mature you are). Oh and btw before you bring it up one more time, no to 4k with a nurse was never the issue, not now and especially not in the past but for people who are still not able to understand what was said after literally daily posts about it, it seems useless to explain it again.
Sidenote: This at least from my understanding and how I see the matter at hand, I don't want to speak for other people.
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@Endstille Well, sorry on the guarantee one. I linked that to the guarantee that nurse killrate will go up again. My bad.
But I will skip some passive-agressive comment about your school education
Failed, I guess.
And I was not about believeing no major mistakes were made or not. You assumed that your SWF performance, according to Omans, should cause a survivor nerf, based on statistics. Omans was not talking about statistics at all. And he did not "prove everything", it was an example to show she is still good, if you believe the survivors' performance. If you dont' then just say so and that this single game is probably not a valid example, but why insinuate that any statistics are prooved by a single game? And I don't know how many of his posts you already read, but your conclusions about his character seem to go a bit over the top for me.
I get the points you mention afterwards, at least in general. I simply don't read it that hard from Omans post. I don't read a "git gud noob" but a "give it some time". The same type of complaints about nurse changes were on the forums before they even were released to the PTB. So how the hell can someone judge on the changes without being able to test them? So I get Omans point, although he is generalizing on nurse mains.
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Wait being a survivor main means youre asleep? What kind of Morpheus existential dumb ######### are you saying
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Honestly this whole thread is why, despite enjoying the stats released by behavior, I don't blame them for not doing it. People will just complain that their stats don't fit their preconceived notions, which are based on personal experience.
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Maybe the definition of Feedback will help you understand why people are sharing their own personal experiences:
Feedback
noun [ U ]
information or statements of opinion about something, such as a new product, that can tell you if it is successful or liked:
Have you had any feedback from customers about the new soap?
On top of that developers have said over and over again that they appreciate hearing feedback, whether good or bad so not really sure what your goal is with your comment as each experience is personal.
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Is it crying or just crying to have fun? What if prayer beads were fun for spirits? Is it against the law for killers to have fun? Why couldn't they make it ultra rare? I'm OK with the collision being gone but adding a vault animation means the killer shack just got a lot stronger for survivors, something that definitely didn't need to be. I'm not even a spirit main and I believe this is so.
So the nurse...nurses didn't rely on omegablink and 4+ blinks. Again, they were often used because they were fun. The issue is they didn't have enough downside which I admit. They should have simply changed the addons so the range had more downside (like it is now) and that the extra blinks causes much greater fatigue when 3 and 4 blinks were used. 4 blinks could have been twice as long as it was. Seriously, you would have been kicked in the rear end for missing. If you are a motion sickness baby, don't use them, simple as that. To even get 3 blinks now, you can't blink through objects, it's equivalent to a brown addon, it's a joke and it'll never be used. Somehow Huntress and Clown can have an insta-down but nurse gets garbage ultra rares, go figure. Now for the nerfed 2 blinks with a cooldown. Why is survivors allowed to make mistakes but if nurse misses a blink or two she's lost the entire game? Against a gen rush team, you basically have to nail every single blink, and with dead hard that's 3 perfect blinks every single time. It's not even possible.
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I think it would help if you actually read what I wrote. I'll try to summarize it again for you anyway though:
I don't blame behavior for not releasing stats because people ignore them when they don't fit their expectations, rather than considering that their perspective may have been wrong or adjusting it based on the new evidence.
None of what I said had anything to do with feedback.
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I like this, a lot.
I can't say I know this is the case, but I think the developers have to make use of the money they invest into content, and if Nurse is stronger, and getting more play that Freddy, which they just reworked, then they've invested their time poorly. So, nerf nurse, let Freddy shine.
Although, this point might be dead in the water when considering the spirit changes; she was really expensive to make. Well, if she has received enough playtime to be considered a worthy investment? I don't know how we could figure that out.
But, my point is mostly that, I believe there are metrics the devs use to change killers that they don't tell us about, because we wouldn't appreciate them as much as the devs do.
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Let me try to rephrase, people sharing their personal experience is feedback, whether they are right or wrong is another question.
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Possibly because of how many challenges there are for trapper in the archives. I never played trapper before the archives but I've played him quite a lot trying to complete the challenges. He seemed pretty popular before, but I've seen waaaaaaaay more trappers since the archives launched.
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That is entirely fair, and has nothing to do with what I wrote.
I am not saying people can't or shouldn't share their personal experiences or give feedback (at least, here). I am saying that there's not much point in having stats if you're just going to ignore them or argue with them if they don't fit what you've experienced.
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So arguing with stats that don't fit your personal experience is not feedback then?
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what logic is this when you cant even pip with 2 kills? pls give me some of what you guys are smoking at work. and its not fun to only be able to get 2 kills. makes no sense brother.
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I'm saying there's no use in having stats if that's all that happens, nor do I blame behavior for not releasing stats since that's all that happens.
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you've got, to take into account that some killers have a much larger learning curve, and so the stats will show them as worse than they actually are. This largely applies to nurse, but also slightly to billy and spirit. It even applies slightly at red ranks for killers who are only playing these killers for their daily
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@Endstille This game's population is much bigger than your oh-so-amazing SWF team. That little bubble you've created for yourself, and the hive of nurse mains on these forums are the extent of people unhappy with her changes.
I play on the Korean server. I don't even think I'm exaggerating when I say that something like 99+ percent of players on that server are happy with the nurse changes. It was a generally accepted truth there that nurse was broken. The most popular streamer in Korea only played her once a day because any more would be too hard on the survivors. But his viewers always asked to see nurse to see how broken a killer she was (full addons, no addons, whatever addons, it didn't matter). I've already mentioned his name many times that you've seen. You either haven't watched his nurse play (you can learn a lot) or are ignoring it because you don't want to accept the possibility that maybe it's not everyone else that's wrong, it's you....
The rest of your character assassination attempt was a bit hard to follow so I'll just let it be. Next time link my name correctly though, so I can see you've said something! Wouldn't want to miss such heart-felt words!
If you don't find nurse fun anymore, don't play her. You aren't getting old nurse back. For someone who claims to be so good at this game, always escaping with your tremendous SWF (that tournament game against the leatherface on Yamaoka looked SOOOOOO hard, very well played!!), you sure don’t have a good concept of balance.
Many people think she is weak, when people with any knowledge of this game at the highest level know that she is still either at the same level as spirit or very close.
Really, this whole nurse debate just boils down to 2 points: Is she still strong and capable of victory in any game? Yes.
Is she 'fun'? I never found her fun. She gave easy victories. Now I've started playing her again. So maybe to you she isn't fun anymore, but I'm quite enjoying her now that she isn't so overbearing.
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There is no difference between console and PC as far as balance. I don't know why people are talking like there is. Because there isn't.
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There's a lesson to be learned here. Statistics are useful, and they can give us insight into many things.
A word of caution to this tale: for statistics to be useful it is important to understand what they are showing. For Nurse, in my opinion, it is clear that she has the absolute greatest potential to demolish a game. According to these stats she would be among the worse. But why this discrepancy? The statistics say all ranks. I would assume this includes both not so skilled nurses (who are not going to have a groovy time) and ok nurses going against competent survivors.
The Trapper I would guess is getting picked solely because of his challenges because I personally haven't seen this many since his buff awhile back.
TLDR: Always pay attention to what statistics showing, what data they are using, and any potential hidden variables that might be influencing what you're seeing.
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If I remember correctly Nurse always appeared low down on these charts due to the high percentage of players who were still trying to learn her. Beginner nurses get humiliated quite easily and she takes a good while to learn
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Was that the same korean streamer that used Omegablink every game? I went to his channel expecting slaughter every game, but I noticed some teams got down to 1 gen left and he had to camp and slug to win at the end, with Omegablink. Oopsie, for a killer with thousands of hours, I thought it was so ez he could down them all with 5 gens up. I see Huntress mains doing the same thing as he did with nurse.
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I'd take statistics with a little bit of grain of salt. Huntress has same kill-rate as Nurse and many players rate huntress very highly. Demogorgon shred is very similar to Huntress Hachets. The reason why those kill-rates are low is because those powers are hardest to master, so when you make a mistake with those killers, you get punished more severely than any other killer. I think there is also psychology factor being played here. Clown, Nurse, Huntress and Demogorgon are extremely 1vs1 oriented killers, so when survivors get destroyed in the chase, They end up playing the objective better, so more people end up escaping. Personally, I think kill-rates are higher than they should be because people don't try as hard as they could to push for a escape on weaker killers. If someone told you that Leatherface is a better killer then Nurse and Huntress, I think some people would think that your crazy, but that's kinda what the stats imply and it just doesn't feel like that in game. Don't let a number deceive you that you can't play better than what the average can play at. The game does leave room for skill and creativity to triumph over numbers.
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Appreciate your comment, all good.
I used my swf as example to show that proof based upon a single game is not something that should be considered to validate something as good or bad. So I used this as an extreme conclusion like see we have this escape rate in the range of so and so that must mean using the logic he used nerf all survivors in the ground.
I find both statements (with the diffrence mine not actually being serious) flawed due to the proof provided. This is why I keep track throughout this season and several other seasons to see where we end up in total.
You know the problem with "good" as far as I recall what the nurse players actually do criticise is the fun factor of the nurse. This has been posted over and over again that the change to the basekit is not fun to play, good is taking out of the equation. That was never what the feedback from the players was about, can you still 4k? Yes, do you feel powerless? No. Do you have fun when you 4k? No. This right there is the most complained about.
So why is it not longer fun as nurse? This has nothing to do with the addons of 3+ blinks / omega as stated most people agree this needed to go. So saying yeah you don't get ez 4k with omega anymore is completely missing the point that people criticise. Nurse used to be a pretty mobile killer even tho she always had a very low movementspeed, but you could blink. Nurse right now actually has a little less map pressure than any other 115% killer (basekit).
This leads to the biggest problem, why play nurse? Nurse had the premise of learning a killer that requires mechanical skill, people devoted to it and got good, very good not all but some. The best ones would probably not use broken addons because they did not want to and dont need them.
Now? You don't have any payoff for a killer that requires mechanical skill compared to other killers. There isn't enough of a benefit to be good with nurse anymore. So yeah why play nurse and give yourself a hard time due to every mistake being punished more severe than with any other killer.
Hope that clears things up a bit more.
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So what happened to the guarantee of yours? All of a sudden no longer mentioning it and ofc you now speak for 99% of the korean server, excuse me, 99+% yeah i totally believe that (NOT). Sorry I have not seen a single freaking person with this amount of arrogance, not a single streamer here would even dare to say such stuff. Imagine coming to a forum stating, yeah i speak for 99+% of server x. 🤣 LuL
Please stop with the stories of your korean streamer, I remember he did an experiment to proof how op nurse was. The funfact was that he only did succeed in it with the most broken addon combinations, not proofing that nurse is broken but delivering proof that the addons were broken which again nurse players agreed upon and thus also welcomed the announced change by bhvr. Funny was also that in the experiment itself, survivors didn't even bring items all the time, a time where instaheals were a thing and all.
Same hilarious stuff that otz claims when he says this swf brought everything at their disposal and you see in the endscreen, a yellow medkit and a yellow toolbox much wow. Kinda strange for people who wanted to v him.
Mind to explain that leatherface yamoaka? Literally have no idea what you talk about.
Character assassination what? Maybe you shouldn't tell obvious lies so we can actually believe you? Sorry i didn't write a story about survivors playing perfect making no mistakes and yet chases end super quick! ez pz 4k. 🤣 Like how did you believe that this story made any sense?
Like try to stick to the truth for once, I literally said the percentages of 4 people not a single was 100% yet you ofc make it to always. See why I do not see you as credible person when you knowingly change statements of me posted a page before of this? When you make claims, stuff that you can not back up in any kind or way.
Like I already said, it has nothing to do with weakness of nurse, it is about fun. I know you love staring at the ground or watching people run away others do not. Maybe change your attitude and not try to throw around your insults about skill instead try to understand what people wrote.
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Preach
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Why are you so fixated on this 'guarantee'? The fact is, the only people who seem to care at all about the nurse changes are the same 6 or 7 nicknames posting about nurse every single day, and the nurse mains, with everyone else either not caring or being happy about the changes. There, guarantee fulfilled. Happy? Even here in this thread it is all the same people. Where is the outrage for poor, little old nurse? Stop sitting in your echo chamber and read what most people said when the nurse changes came. Now, people are tired of seeing this same topic come up again and again. The devs are probably regretting creating such a monster with nurse in the first place, because of how fixated you people are on keeping her overpowered. (Are you going to say I'm speaking for the devs now? Haha)
Arrogant? Stating facts is now arrogance? Yikes. There is a difference between conveying truth based on what you have witnessed and 'speaking for a whole server'. You really need to stop jumping to incredibly incorrect conclusions...
That streamer never said he was going to go addonless. His goal was to win every match as nurse. In some games he used her strongest addons, in many games he didn't. His intent was to prove that no matter what, nurse would win. His kill percentage at the end of the experiment was something like 98 percent. Despite you lying and claiming he used overpowered addons every game, he didn't, yet he still managed to win handily every single match against red rank survivors (just because you couldn't do what he could do doesn't mean nurse was balanced). The big, bad red rank survivors who can end games in less than 5 minutes. That is why people are content with these nurse changes. Her basekit allowed such domination to be possible. In a multiplayer game, one side should not be able to win so easily. You claim you aren't having fun. I can't speak for the nurses you faced, but over here on this server, nurse players were absolutely dominant. Yes, I can safely say that the vast majority of players are happy with these changes here.
Also, the difference between his nurse and your SWF is he proved he could do that every game, no matter what. Your SWF, if you faced killers who actually used strong addons and played optimally, wouldn't have nearly as much success as you do now. You can't even deny that. And the only way your group would have a chance of beating him was if a map like Haddonfield or Yamaoka came up.
Do you know what a snowball is? The first generator I checked (in the corner of a map with no way to escape without going through me) in that nurse game had 2 people spawn beside each other. If you are aware what nurse is capable of (yes, even now), you would be aware of how fast you can still down 2 people if you time your blinks correctly. 2 people going down in such short time at the beginning of the match easily creates a snowball. Are you sure you've played nurse? I don't even play her and I can tell you this..
Don't even know what you are saying in the second to last paragraph.
Even with as often as you mention your SWF, it is clear you have a nurse main bias. You mention fun, as if expecting to elicit some sort of response from the commenters here. Fun? You mean the thing survivors had when playing against nurses in red ranks 25 percent of their games? A game where you have to wait a very short amount of time at the end of your missed double blink (aim better next time) on a whole is much more fun for everyone involved than the travesty of game balance that we were experiencing with old nurse.
Nurse is still really strong in the right hands. Instead of asking for nurse to be an easy win again, maybe try adapting to the new situation and finding fun that way. Or...don't, and go play spirit. That's what many of the other nurses who couldn't handle the thought of being defeated did.
If you speak with a nasty tone, expect nastiness in return. I've been civil, be thankful for that. Try not to get this thread closed like the last one.
Post edited by Omans on2 -
The correct term they used was "slightly". Imagine slightly omegalul
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You do realize:
1. The are more survivor mains in dbd being absolutly happy about any nerf on killers no matter how stupid it is.
2. Nurse was already a killer which had low pickrate since she is a very difficult killer to pick up and master
3. Not every player is active in the forums
4. That some nurse main streamers just gave up on bhvr and didn't even botherd posting how stupid it is so you can assume that same mentality applies to non streamer nurse mains.
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"Here's some statistics to show how killers are preforming but also keep in mind it's not accurate and you shouldn't use seriously" wow omg devs being laze as usual look my dad is rich and owns the internet he will sue you and make you buff peppa pig to be strong Yes ok
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I've been seeing this a lot, they didn't say that the numbers were inaccurate, they said that numbers aren't everything, there's a lot of factors. That is not the same thing.
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They aren't the only ones who think that Nurse is terrible to play after the patch, they are just the most vocal. I think I have 2 or 3 posts ever, but there are lots of us...
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Honestly, if some nurse mains think the changes are bad, it shouldn't really matter? Harsh to say, I know, but in my experience nurse mains tend to have no concept of what a balanced game looks like. After constantly seeing those people say that basekit nurse was fine, it is pretty sweet knowing they were wrong.
The fun those nurse mains are now not having is being had by a much larger group of people AND many people who refused to play nurse because she was so overtuned, who are now playing her (like me). This whole situation is a net positive gain.
To those who aren't having fun: adapt or choose a different killer. Highly doubtful the devs will change anything when nurse is still top of the Tier lists.
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I can't tell which end you are talking out of now. If you think survivors should know what a balanced game looks like then killers better all pack their bags and head out.
Nurse mains wasn't wrong I beg your pardon. The only people the devs didn't listen to or even care about are nurse mains. We are talking about people that played this game since 2016 if they are even still here, spit on. I am one of those people. One of those never used ruin and never tunneled off hook, but guess what? Nurse is now ruin dependent. She's also addon dependent. The cooldown has costed me the game so many times that I'm almost done with Nurse. The devs have made this killer worse than the rest because it is not worth your time invested into it. The stats don't lie, she's the weakest killer across the board and she is no longer a predominate killer in red ranks. On my server and playing some survivor every day at red ranks I've seen her only 2-3 times since the nerf. In every game she lost. But I tell you what I do see mostly and that is huntresses, ghostface, and spirits. The nurse is gone.
You are a huntress main so let me make it so you'll understand. Fix Huntress hitboxes like the devs did one time but 'reverted' it at the 'request' of Huntress mains. Yep, they listened to Huntress mains. Fix the damn hitboxes and don't listen to huntress mains. Give her an addon rework so she can't have extra hatchets, reduce her hatchets to 3 and add more cooldown between throws. Give her some addons for bonus points, and most importantly, give her an addon so she CANNOT THROW HATCHETS but move at normal speed, essentially becoming a m1 killer for 60 secs. Make her Ultra Rare give her 1 extra hatchet but they are much slower so the survivor doesn't feel threatened for you having an extra one. If you don't understand the frustration of nurses now, I can't help you.
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Many survivor mains don't know what a balanced game looks like too. Their idea of what a balanced game should be is as important as the average nurse main's idea of balance (as in, not).
Yes, you are going to lose more games now than you did before. That's sort of the point....? She was overperforming because like you just said, she didn't need to use anything, and was still capable of winning. That's horrible balance.
If huntress was overperforming then perhaps those sorts of changes would be welcome. I'm only interested in playing a balanced game, not one where one side demolishes the other due to poor balance decisions, as it was when nurse was left unchecked.
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Guess what else doesn't need to bring anything? Survivors and Huntresses. Neither is addon dependent.
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Keys and toolboxes should be nerfed/changed. Medkits and flashlights are fine.
Against the best survivors a huntress with no addons is in a lot of trouble.
Against the best survivors a nurse with no addons still had a very good chance to win. Now things are more balanced.
You, as a killer, have to use addons if you want to beat the best players. That is how the game is designed, and it works well as a system to keep things balanced. Every single killer can perform very well with no addons at every rank except against the best players. Needing addons to beat those best players is a good design choice. Nurse being able to bypass all that was not.
Don't even try to tell me an addonless huntress and an addonless nurse were even close to comparable before this nerf. No killer even got close to her power with no addons. Addonless nurse was at the top of the Tier list above every single killer using addons.
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The double standards are real. I would say you are heavily biased, not someone who knows how the game is designed. A survivor, huntress, and nurse should all play by the same rules. Right now they are not. A huntress is viable without addons, nurse is not. She needs addons to soften her enormous nerf. A survivor can usually goof off, have a good time with their friends, a huntress can have 5 chances to down a survivor and what does a nurse have to do? She has to be a navy seals sharpshooter that makes absolutely no mistakes to potentially win. That's reasonable to only survivor mains and killer mains that don't like nurse. There's no tier list with nurse at the top, that's made by Mr. Doe and the community accepts it as the gospel.
Keys: Punish them for using a key, use franklins demise, use a mori, or make sure that survivor dies.
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Why do you even give a guarantee out? Don't come at me for asking you about it when you write it.
You should read more, there has been alot of feedback from nurseplayers and survivors who actually do miss old nurse because these people like me share the feeling that old addonless nurse was the best killer there was with just the right intensity. You are the one sitting in the echochamber, this very forum is proof that not all people are happy with it. You want more? Go to steam there is enough there too. I don't spend alot of time on reddit but I imagine that there are people with this feeling as well.
So for the future when you talk about facts, you might want to get them right instead of confusing your opinion with facts and believing that your opinion is shared by most people. This is where you totally make you unbelievable, you don't speak for yourself, you try to speak for others like your statement about the korean server. Do you mind telling me does japan share a server with korea? If so there even was a person from japan giving feedback to the changes, ptb section. Guess what he didn't agree with it and probably is one of those outside of 99+% eh?
I don't get your logic, why does there have to be outrage? People make comments and statements. I see the community split around it, some share your opinion and do actually like the changes and some don't. Also the rework has been overshadowed by the "nerf" to survivors instaheal, such nerf much wow, having protection against exposed and instadowns. Not everybody is as passionate about every subject, pretending that nothing has been said is again not true just because you missed it.
No it is not people who are tired, it is you who is tired. Why you always have to hide behind other people and try to give your statements more weight?
Blablalbla i speak for the entire asian continent, we are all tired of the this topic.Now here is a suggestion for you, don't participate in the topic when you are so tired of it instead of going into the topic and throwing around insults and telling people to shut up and git gud. I mean why do you even read it, bother to respond and so on when you are so tired of it?
He wanted to proof that nurse always wins no matter what, so why not make it the most challenging and go without addons that is literally the point of"no matter what" isn't it? Sorry I don't get that logic, equipping broken ######### and say hey i can always win was what everybody agreed upon. So proof for nurse being broken wouldve been the same challenge without any addons but he wouldve never been able to pull that off and that is why he chose to play the broken addons in the first place. I don't lie about it i only saw him play those addons. I have to admit I didn't see the entire experiment because I was bored pretty quickly, broken addons and survivors who try to play against him who didn't bring items. So yeah maybe he switched it up.
No I am not going to say you are speaking for the devs, you didn't claim it yet so why would I say that? Because you made actually an assumption on their feelings about nurse? Nah.
Diffrence between him/my squad is that we do not try to proof anything or even stream. I just thought, hey keeping track of things could be interesting. We do face our moris, beads and so on. Do you actually believe that we somehow do have only killers that play vanilla style? I don't think it makes much sense to argue about hypothesis, you think we only have a chance there fine I disagree. We will probably never know so best to avoid that part.
Big diffrence is also that I prefer slight balance adjustments instead of bringing the hammer like the impact of nurse is felt in addition with servers.
Conclusions from those (the stats) are a whole diffrent thing. For example I as a player do not feel able to play solo survivor mostly due to the fact that I can not stand the stupidity of some randoms (do not feel offended if you play solo survivor, i know there are very good ones out there too). I just do not want to be bothered by that because I literally wonder how these people managed up in red ranks. This is something that you will find in various posts about survivors, reason number one to die is not the killer but instead the dumb teammate. Dominance can have several reasons maybe it was also due to some people simply not belonging where they are ,being boosted or do you deny that these people exist?
Yeah I know what a snowball is but it is strange isn't it? They heard you coming, you need 4 hits and yet somehow they went down there right at the beginning that would be the part what I said earlier, one or both of them made a huge mistake.
Also do you really like these changes? Before you answer understand that I mean the addons and what they offer when you have stuff like the new freddy in the game. I find them damn boring to be honest, a part of my frustration comes from that. Do you enjoy making people scream, being able to blink to where you came from or blink forward while there are obvious filler addons with the meme addons, reduce lunge, reduce range. Also why is there still the bug where she is stuck in a loop of breathings while charging blink until she is letting go? They should've fixed that at least.
I think maybe why I do not have fun is due to the fact that with old nurse, when being good with her, you didn't need to play optimal. That kinda was the premise for me, get good with that killer and you can play how you like. Now there is this killer that is still strong but is not fun due to being restricted to play optimal.
Don't get me wrong this is not a pissing contest and it is a good thing that people have diffrent opinions. Everybody nodding and agreeing to everything would be the equivalent of sheep.
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Way too much meandering to reply to. I'll reply to your last question: yes, I like these changes for the exact reason you said. You said you didn't have to play optimally at rank 1 (I assume?) as nurse and were still able to perform very well consistently. That is something I strongly believe shouldn't be possible.
The thing that nurse mains seem to gloss over is that literally every killer can win very easily against survivors who aren't the best, whether those killers use addons or not. If I were to play against an average purple survivor rank team I would win every single game with any killer. But, when you start facing the really good survivors, you have to play optimally. They are playing optimally. They are doing those gens as fast as they can. Why should you, as a basekit killer, be able to keep up with players of equal skill to you when you aren't playing optimally? Is that really balance to you?
I strongly, strongly believe that when you are at the top ranks of any game, you have to play optimally against the other top players. Not needing to do that as nurse was why nurse was so hated by so many people. And that's why so many people are happy with how nurse is now.
If I was able to perform as well as basekit nurse was able to with my huntress (not using addons) I would be so disappointed with the state of balance. I would welcome a nerf to huntress. I want this game as close to balanced as an asymmetrical game can be (which is why it is frustrating that the obvious biggest issue in the game - the maps - isn't getting as much attention as it should).
Oh, and please stop putting words I absolutely did not say in my mouth.
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This is another one of those echo chamber situations. Even R1 streamers that hated Nurse have admitted that Old nurse needed addons to constantly tear down optimal SWF groups. She was able to contend with them without addons when the SWFs weren’t playing optimally.
old Nurse didn’t need addons to be viable. She needed them to be overly viable. New Nurse, this pathetic bedsheet of a killer, needs addons to be viable at all. It’s ######### laughable that anyone wants to argue with R1 Nurse mains about whether or not she is still viable.
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No rest until 4k under 3min becomes the norm. Keep up the good work my killers
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Nope! Me and lots of my friends think that billy is the most balanced killer and easily the most fun to play against.
Also, what are these safe pallets you talk of in any new maps? Most badham pallets aren't too good, hawkin's pallets are really unsafe. Billy also has lot's of counterplay to shack and even jungle gyms, as he can mindgame and curve them.
Only thing that I would change about billy is charge speed addons, since they take lot's of the skill out from both sides. I enjoy going against a curving engraving billy way more, as that requires skill to play as and to go against.
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I agree. This is why the game is now the most imbalanced it has ever been from what he said. Survivors can team up on discord and there is nothing a killer can do to stop them. As a killer you basically have to enter a match hoping they aren't coordinated or not expert loopers. Nurse was the most balanced killer because she required skill and practice much like survivors and was able to deal with it with extra range or blinks. All other killers are limited. Nurse is now limited. With this, they should remove ranks completely because the devs clearly do no intend for the game to be competitive. There is no incentive to play killer when your fate is in survivors control.
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