(UPDATED) Decisive Strike REWORK !
Decisive Strike rework. I really thought about this for a while and with the help of feedback I decided to update the title of this as this isn't really a buff anymore but more of a rework.
This new Decisive Strike rework actually adds a new playing field into the way the perk works. Making it a very good perk if you play it right and it'll lessen the amount of killers waiting out the strike timer. Which is the most common problem amongst this perk and I have a very efficient solution to this issue.
Decisive strike is great and only works in so little ways that it really doesn't shine too well and shouldn't work how it does now. It only has one purpose and can only be used once.
Here's my proposal:
- **Saving Decisive Strike for your last hook instead, activates the timer once in dying state. NOT after unhook like current Decisive Strike build.**
- **In the event of being carried on your last hook state, the skill check will be slightly more difficult.**
- **Succeeding or failing the Skill Check in any occasion will disable Decisive Strike for the whole trail.**
- **Avoiding the Skill Check with no input saves it for next opportunity.**
Once downed to dying state on your LAST hook, the killer can choose to ignore you until the 60 seconds ends, allowing you to crawl to safety and get helped which if that happens, you cannot use it again once timer ends. Or the killer can pick you up and get stunned if the survivor can land the slightly more difficult skill check:
Decisive has a timer like it usually does for every other unhook but it works different for the last. Only if you haven't already used it. With this rework, you can hope to mitigate face campers and Decisive Strike avoiders alike and have a better time with yourself in the fog.
Comments
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I thought it already could be saved by dodging the skill check. I never use it but thanks for letting me know anyways.
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Errrm....I thought DS could already be saved if you didn't hit the Skill Check (i.e. no input during the animation), or did that get nerfed too?
Also this looks like more of a nerf than a buff to me (not like we need a DS buff anyways, but that's just my perspective on the perk).
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With this buff it functions far different on your last hook so I had to re-explain everything for people who skim through stuff. The perk is great but it has many flaws.
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Yeah, DS doesn't need any buffs. It needs changes, but not buffs.
Make the timer last an infinite amount of time BUT, it is immediately cancelled once you fully heal, work on a gen, or someone else gets hooked.
Please note, it will not run out if you are slugged or being chased.
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No, it's a buff because it allows the perk to perform longer on the last hook.
Say you're on your last hook and haven't used DS, it won't start the timer until downed to dying state.
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DS doesn't need a buff just a smaller timer and paused timer while slugged or some other fix.
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No.
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Oh right. I still don't think DS deserves a buff, the perk is too strong already - but it doesn't need a nerf either. Just a change in how the perk functions as Pulsar mentioned.
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I was with you until you said slugged or chased lol.
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Care to explain why not? The way I see it, this DS will always punish people that actually tunnel, and will never hit people who do not.
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I like this concept but like I said, it's not infinite until you get downed to dying from your last hook.
Making it less OP. You can still heal and do everything like usual until downed to dying state for the first time from last hook.
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So if you don't facecamp/tunnel people out of the game/force DS early, you're rewarded with an impossible End Game?
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The way I see it, the killer will be able to tunnel as long as they have slugged first. Infinite timer sounds sketchy during end game also. My idea has less problems than yours.
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Depends on what perks the killer is running. You also have to take it into the account of other survivors. Not everyone is gonna run DS.
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Mine is infinite if you are being chased, essentially. You shouldn't get tunneled off of hook, then loop the Killer for 5 gens and get downed at the End Game and die because DS ran out. He was clearly only after you. DS should take care of that. Make it infinite.
By making it so that it runs out when fully healed, working on a gen or someone else getting hooked, you stop it from being abused as a game stall
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Yeah, it just seems like an early game rush meta would occur, much like Otz's old aggressive Legion before their last nerf.....or Basement Bubba lol.
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I like the idea of strategic gameplay not hindering the perk.
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Perhaps I worded it strangely but it seems you aren't understanding. My timer is only infinite during a chase. If you get tunneled off of hook and loop the Killer for 5 gens, you deserve that DS. As for the EGC, i was thinking of disabling it, but there really isn't a good way about that.
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If you're worried about a impossible end-game please note that there's Blood Warden, NOED, Hex: Devour Hope and also Moris. Lol
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Nobody at higher ranks run those perks because they aren't helpful throughout the game, maybe Devour in some kind of build.
Moris end the game too soon and are an issue in their own right (same goes for keys).
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I disagree with the Mori part. You can stall the game purposely for more XP/BP.
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Not everyone cares about XP/BP though. People will just use it to try and end the game early, and swing a massive advantage their way.
I for one, do not care about any 'bonus' from playing with my food (without the perk that is).
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I don't understand your argument in place then..?
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I'm saying that people will use Moris as soon as possible, and won't stall the game.
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Did you take into account a 4-man SWF that would run DS?
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This is what happens at Red Ranks, but I don't think enough people have seen play at that level to understand the devastation it causes yet.
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what difference would it make if you force the players out of their DS?
SWF is a acceptable play-style anyways lol.
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ds doesnt need any kind of buff if any a nerf because it works as anti momentum ( as a punish for free) not as an anti tunnel. many times i got other survivors fast and still comeback and get ds you cant just wait 20 secs extra to hook, 20 seconds is half of a gen done by 2 survivors but devs dont even realize about this. or they do but they dont care fiurst survivors and then VERY LATE adjust the killer.
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You said "not everyone runs DS". What happens if a 4-man SWF team decides they're gonna all run DS together?
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It's a new dynamic. If my DS got added, killers will just have to play their cards differently. I play a little bit of killer and yeah DS is annoying as hell but on the other hand, once they use it, they're dead as soon as they're downed for their last hook unless this new buff gets added.
But with my suggestion, survivors can choose to save it for the last hook to save their life. We can't see survivor perks but this is why we predict. Most of the time at least at mid ranks and sometimes high ranks, it's all randoms that survive together including me. I'd use this more of as a well to stun the killer to get to the hatch incase I carried myself to be the last one standing or clutch a hook save. The way of this working can only go so many ways.
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Then find a way to combat it. Clutch a basement hook or run perks that allows you to down survivors more efficiently.
SWF isn't really balanced and never will be. The game allows you to invite your friends so killer mains just have to deal with it. Get better or play survivor is all I have to say to that lol.
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If your response is "SWF isn't balanced," then to me that means that your idea that would be easily abused by such isn't a good idea.
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If anything, DS needs a nerf to make it more balanced. It's too easy to abuse by survivors. (Hop in a locker to force DS!)
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Not even, killers can just tunnel survivors out of their DS easily. In addition to that, basement hooks are terrible for DS situations. (edit): ALSO, you can wait out the DS.
Just because it wouldn't work well for YOU with SWF doesn't mean it wont work well for you with individual survivors. You're just trying to reach at a point that isn't even valid.
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What makes the point not valid?
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That's not healthy in the slightest. DBD is a game of seconds and how best to maximize those seconds. Two critical out or misplays can lead to being severely disadvantaged. There is no world where DS could possibly be balanced with an infinite timer. The perk even in its current state can s till change the outcome of key situations. During endgame there would be literally no way to counter this. Gens are completed, you're obviously in a safer position injured because you have DS so no reason to heal, and depending on the situation, there may not be anyone left to hook.
DS needs to keep a tight time window. We've seen what it is like when it doesn't have one. At that point you'd might as well just give a survivor a gun so they can kneecap the killer. It isn't as if DS exists in a vacuum as killers are forced to take the full stun now. Nothing lessens it anymore.
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You're saying the buff would be broken only if used with SWF. Many survivor perks are broken with SWF.
- Adrenaline.
- Breakout.
- Borrowed Time.
- Saboteur.
And killers have counter perks to all of them including DS. That's why it's invalid.
Just because a set group of friends can play together and use it to their advantage to win doesn't make it broken.
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is stupid and broken, no need to do that ds is arleady way too strong and with this stupid idea playing agaisnt swf would be even more annoying wich happens quite often in red ranks. stop trying to buff survivors they already have the hand of the devs by their side what else do u want?
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Let me put it to you like this: If your counter-argument is "it's okay because there are already other things in the game that are broken with SWF," then you are basically arguing that it's okay to add potentially broken things because broken things already kinda exist in-game. That alone is enough to have this idea dismissed.
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I'd like to hear how survivors have the 'hand of the devs' by their side. Killers are more broken than survivors but SWF is just as equally broken against Killers. It literally takes a 4 man in most situations to win a game successfully and often in some instances survivors don't succeed because the killers are very good and I commend them.
Killer's have MORE training wheels compared to survivors whereas, survivors are getting loop infinites patched and in addition to that, we still don't have a counter to moris or a nerf.
Of course you think the buff is a 'stupid' idea because you don't like the outcome of that since you're a killer main. That's the point. How are survivors suppose to have a gain without hindering the Killer's success a little bit?
You have to realize that maybe the buff isn't the problem, the problem is SWF which is the main argument here and I have nothing to say about SWF aside from train yourself to be a better killer I guess?😅
Not at all. There's many things that different players believe to be broken and we can go on and on about the list of perks for both Survivor and Killer that are fairly over powered and with SWF it makes it broken.
You must of misunderstood me but, I'm saying it might be broken if used cooperatively for a 4 man SWF group. Not individually/with randoms.
I was simply comparing perks that are fairly broken already if comboed with SWF. The idea is perfect and if you read it through, it's not really bad at all or infinite. Killers already wait out downed survivors so the threat of DS would be the same just more situational for killers.
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Buff the strongest perk in dbd..?
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Honestly the only way I can see this buff of DS being broken is if a 4 man SWF group outplayed the killer on a end-game and stunning him to let all their buddies to escape which I mean...is kinda the killers fault for not out playing the survivor.
Force the survivors of their DS or something. You can always attempt to slug players in hopes of downing all 4 before their last hooks. There's many ways killers can combat this, you're just pressuring the fact that there will be a 4 man somewhere 'abusing' this buff.
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Debatable.
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It's more than annoying, in fact, it's OP as all hell in the endgame collapse. I'm rank 9, just had a match against four rank 2 survivors. EGC hits, I have one on hook, the other injured right near the door. Stupid autoaim causes me to down the survivor that just got unhooked, giving the other guy time to escape. She is downed near the door, I can't wait out the 60 seconds because she can crawl to safety, and I can't pick her up because she has DS.
Absolutely nothing I can do in that situation except hope she misses it, which she didn't. Cost me a pip because there is zero counter play. I have no problem allowing it to be saved until death hook, so long as it's disabled once the doors are open.
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So you're talking about slugging a 4-man SWF team to play around DS, which plays right into Unbreakable. You're talking about just letting DS proc anyways when the ENTIRE point of changing it was to give the Killers some way to play around it. You're only making your DS idea look even more problematic.
Once again: If you're saying "it might be broken if used cooperatively for a 4 man SWF group", you're saying it's okay to add stuff that might end up being broken. That is not okay. That is not, as you say, a perfect idea. That is a bad idea. Plain and simple.
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why would you want to buff DS? its way stronger now than wiggle DS
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Either that or bt..but I'm saying more ds because end game it has points where its uncountable
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I am fine with being able to save it, but I dont get the first change
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I think it’s a great idea to wait for the last hook because it’s gone if you use it any earlier... It’s more effective after your struggling hook. Then again, you could already wait for the last minute. I think if this were to get added maybe the skill check should be a bit more difficult to hit... similar to an Overcharged skill check...
DECISIVE STRIKE SKILL CHECK. (Vanilla & Altered )
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Finally, a person with common sense. It's nice to see some people actually agree with me considering this thread mostly consists of Killer mains giving their bias opinion on the matter.
In all seriousness, this would be interesting but perhaps making the last hook DS window not THAT small. That's barely possible. Maybe more like:
Added to mainpost.
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