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Thank bhvr facecamping is gonna be removed soon, or what I think based on what the devs said
This video that Mandy put under a recent thread, plus, for those who remember, what Mathieu Côte said in the interview on the YouTube channel of The King, where he agreed when they asked whether basement should be removed from the game, should tell us good news!
As I said in this thread, Leatherface is the main example of why I think this is a giant problem, but even Doctor: if you keep shocking the rescuer in a camping situation, unless 2 people well organised come at the hook, you can't do anything, especially with 1 or both discipline add ons that reduce the delay of the shock.
Plus, you always have the option to grab the rescuer when healthy (this should straight up be removed, it's such a simple and nice change), which makes such an important part of the match always a GAMBLE, especially when you consider the lag and the grab validation.
And, whAt nobody EVER says:
With any killer, you can always bodyblock the hooked survivors: you just need to block with your body the rescuer, and unless another survivors comes, it's gg, if you're quick enough pressing A-D as killer the rescuer won't even have the option to initiate the unhook, EXACTLY like the old facecamp.
This not even considering all those spots in indoor maps, and outdoor maps like Eyrie of Crows where you can just bodyblock on door with your body and the survivors can't do anything to pass unless they're coordinated and another survivor comes. Which is, in solo Q, impossible unless all using Kindred.
Another thing maybe few noticed, that I haven't seen in the patch notes, is that they fixed the bug where you could evade the restrictions of deploying Victor/ switching characters with Twins if there was a height difference like on basement stairs or a hill. Thanks BHVR for fixing this bug!
In conclusion, other than being boring/frustrating, camping is a big problem for solos, especially in indoor maps because as the dev said it takes so much time to realise someone is camping, and there are killers that require an insane coordination to avoid a disaster:
-Bubba is just a death sentence literally, even against strong teams unless the first chase lasts a lot it's always 2k guaranteed with the correct build
-Clown with Pinky Finger
-Iridescent head huntress
-Doctor constantly shocking
-Hillbilly's insta down
-And, last but not least, Myers with infinite T3, or with Tombstone. It's even harder to save than it is vs Hillbilly, you just can not save vs an instadown killer unless you want to lose the match and have 1/2 survivors slugged and one hooked.
Plus, if you're using a mori, and you force the second stage, and hit borrowed time right off the hook, you can prevent DS in a locker because once the deep wound timer runs out the survivor is forced out of the locker, and you can mori.
Hopefully the devs will fix this problem that's been part of the game since the beginning, and make trials a healthier and funnier experience!
Comments
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Do you ever play killer? I find it so hard to believe you do beyond a random farm match for a daily where you let everyone live...
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Camping is not problem. Camping - it is the strat to NOT let the hooked to escape. In other words - this is strat that allows killer secure his main objective in this game. Just like that
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Of course he doesn't, he thinks that getting a 2k consistently with Leatherface is a problem.
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FYI Watch the video clip posted above, the lead developer is very specifically differentiating between “proxy camping” and “facecamping”, saying the former is a legitimate strategy they like but the latter is more problematic and something they have been actively trying to find ways to reduce to little success so far. He said to date their efforts to counter facecamping as a strategy have encountered issues that were technical dealbreakers because they broke other parts of the game, but they have a new possible solution in the works that seems more promising and he’s hopeful it will work out and be implemented “soon (tm)”.
The lead dev didn’t go into any details on what solution they’re working on, but he does make it very clear they consider facecamping a serious issue they’re actively working on.
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To be fair i would like camping gone. Its just op is all about the Yeah! Punish the killer they got it way to easy! bandwagon and don't mention or acknowledge the reason camping is a thing and why people feel forced to play like that.
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It's a strat, but not a very fun one, nor interactive.
And, trust I currently am doing nothing but camping as Bubba to see what my average kills are.
I previously was letting people go but that got boring.
And, I easily get 2ks every game. Probably closer to 3, so it is effective.
But, if it wasn't for the data, it would get boring quick.
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I can't really watch the video right now. If anyone can post a tl;dw it'd be much appreciated.
For the rest, I think removing hook grabs and interrupts would probably solve 90% of the facecamping issue. If unhooks worked like fast vaults at windows (i.e. no channeling the action, they don't allow grabs and once the action is queued up it cannot be reset), then killers could still easily get the 1 for 1, but not free pressure by threatening the 2 for none or simply stalling the save.
It would be very much in line with what they said about nerfing facecamping but not proxy'ing.
Leatherface would still pose a problem, because he won't be able to stop the unhook anymore, but he can shred through BT. That would have to be addressed on the killer specifically.
OP is far from being a survivor main. They've been on the forum for quite some time and they've very much advocated for killer buffs for just about everything. This is actually the first subject I can remember where I see them taking the survivor side.
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I am all for removing camping. But only if they fix the underlying cause and reason it happens. Do you really think people enjoy standing at a hook on killer?
You can't go for 12 hooks in the current state of the game. The survivors objective is unrealistically simple and fast in comparison to the killers vs the resources available.
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Well. Remove hookgrasp...just no. It's useful even if not camping. If you chase someone and he decides to unhook during chase it the way to punish for mistake. As I said previously facecamping is a strat. For example if there is the gates open and EGC is started the camping is the most useful strat to not let escape as many people as possible. If you remove camping - 5 gens gone an EGC will be equal to let survivors escape without chasing them
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In that video they also said they'd implement an autoban system. How's that working out? Not at all, for obvious reasons.
They come up with just the dumbest, most simple-minded stuff all the time and back off from it. How long did it take them dipping their toes into MMR before they went ahead and shoved it into the game? What solution could they possibly have that works and doesn't screw the killer over? There's nothing.
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I dont think its gonna happen. That video is like 2 months old, and they talk about how theyve tried to do something about it in the past, but none of their ideas really worked out. Which is exactly what I was expecting tbh, cause Im of the belief that camping doesn't really have a solution that is healthy for the game. And it looks like the devs tooling around with ideas to solve it and none of them working out kinda reinforces that idea.
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What's the timestamp of the autoban comment? I'm not going to watch a 2 hour long video to hear the quote.
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And I'm not going to rewatch the 2hr video to point it out to you. The game designer says it at some point. There were fifty threads pointing out how is an awful idea at the time.
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Ok, I'll just ignore your comment then, I have no way to know what you're even talking about or if you're misremembering something they said or if it's even relevant to the conversation unless I can actually see the quote.
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I would not count on it.
I think they will try to change this silently with new perks - like the new killers which incetivises multiple survs to hook.
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I am going to have to apologize for this. It was in the anniversary stream. Dunno how to share timestamps with the YT app, but the pertinent information is around 1:008. The QnA stream was where they revealed that the MMR system they've been working on for years is just a binary W/L evaluation. Equally idiotic.
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Thanks! 1:08 is where they posted the kill rate chart which is always fun. 🙂 I still can't find the question where they talk about how the MMR works though (I found the question where they talk about why the MMR is hidden but not how it works.) Likewise the autoban question.
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The autoban is at one hour and eight minutes on the anniversary stream.
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Sorry, I thought you meant 1hr 8mn on the dev stream that was posted in this thread. Are you talking about a 4th Anniversary stream?
P.S. Ah found it, 5th anniversary stream
P.P.S. Yeah, the dev didn't say too much other than that they were thinking of using the thumbs up and down to do autobans. Which yeah, sounds like a terrible idea, kind of glad that got shelved. I'm guessing they did some internal testing and realized how many bogus bans they'd get from it and shelved it.
Here's that clip
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i dont think its going to be anything major, probably just the aura of killer is shown if he stays to the hook, regardless of insidious or not.
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The rise in hook camping is an issue bred from Gen speed. It's simple. There's no point in going out of my way to go find a chase when I can just make one come to me. With how fast gens go, I am actively losing the match anytime I'm not in a chase or securing a kill on hook.
Sure I could go out and look for a chase, maybe chase someone off a Gen, but strategically it doesn't make much sense. Hook states go about the same speed as a Gen could be done, so I know that if I stay by a survivor on hook I'm either getting a hook state or someone is going to leave their Gen and come to me to give me a chase. This becomes even more of a no-brainer if 2 survivors are injured, or if I have some ability to expose or 1 hit healthy survivors.
I'd leave the hook and patrol gens if I felt like I had a chance at protecting them. But they go so fast there's no point. It's a gamble to go out and look for chases, whereas a hook is guaranteed value.
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Tl;Dr We all want more chases. It's the most fun part of the game for both sides. So the key to making them happen more is to incentivise killers to pursue them more. Punishing camping will not make it happen less, and will only serve to make a lot of killers and perk builds a lot worse and give killers even less options in a match.
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As killer i don´t like chases.
I stopped more and more to do them if i see the surv is good at them.
Because this is boring - a good surv loops you 2-4 times - then drops the pallet and runs to the next loop.
In a map like game this lasts for the entire match.
Fun fact - just did the 25 pallets/walls/gen challenge in one play on the game.
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I do play killer in fact, vs very strong teams
I'm talking about facecamping, which can be very unfair vs solo players, totally uncounterable vs some killers, especially Bubba.
I think the game should be reworked totally on this point, and give killers a reason not to camp and tunnel
I know the reason, which is that going for a lot of hooks is game losing, which can be corrected with fixing the facecamp problem
Exactly, thank you.
They devs will hopefully change the game with movies and stuff, so more reasons not to camp, unless the devs have no brain at all.
A strat that cannot be countered at all in the specified cases
Mandy remembered this part if the video specifically in a thread, so I think she knows something about this is still valid since she's a BHVR member
New perks are NOT the solution, I really hope after all the change that have been rumoured the devs aren't that stupid.
That doesn't solve the problem, a default kindred us VERY good, but still doesn't fix the problem for Bubba, Myers perma tier 3, insta huntress, Billy, Pinky Finger.
It's not gens speed only, it's a problem of killers not being able to snowball enough. Nemesis for example: consistent but a bit slow chases sometimes, very good anti loop, but no momentum at all when going around the map.
Not camping, just facecamping in general, and bodyblocking hooks with the killer's body.
4 loops is just bullshit, not even against Trapper if you're talking about a "common" single pallet loop where you can see over the pallet. 1,5/2 usually, 3 getting greedy and risking getting hit
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>That doesn't solve the problem, a default kindred us VERY good, but still doesn't fix the problem for Bubba, Myers perma tier 3, insta huntress, Billy, Pinky Finger.
actually it does, the dev have stated in the video the problem with facecamping is that others will not realize that the killer is facecamping until its too late, it solve the problem of feeding too much on the lack of information, there isnt much they can do without making it intrusive to strategic camping
it makes no sense for a perma t3 myers face camp, because he has to spend a lot of time chargind his power
Huntress can use one insta down hatchet and then needs to find another, leaving time for survivor to go for the unhook, again makes no sense
Pinky finger has to hit you directly with the bottle, you have to be some kind of special masochist to facecamp with clown
Billy is a bit tricky but he can be jucked and if he uses the chainsaw he's forced to move and since his nerf he can't just hold the chainsaw indefinitely.
the only real problem is bubba since he can go true any anticamp tactic with little effort
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they all can consistently hook trade into 1 kill and more if survivor play it badly. Leo's post is on point. Trickster is another killer on list that is good at facecamping which isn't mentioned. If your having trouble hitting pointblank billy chainsaws, than he probably shouldn't play billy, same for rest.
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I wish he would define distance when he's talking about Proxy-Camping vs Face-Camping.
For me "nearish" could still be Face-Camping. I see Face-Camping as being within about 6 meters of the survivor, maybe venturing out to run off survivors then returning immediately. So basically, staying within about the same distance as the walls in the basement are from the hooks in the center.
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Ok, I'm sorry!
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Face camping is something that simply ruins the game for me and from my experience a lot of other survivor players too. It happened to me again today and that fine thread that still has me attached to this game gets a little thinner every time it happens. A killer standing in front of you to face camp and even worse when they decide to hit you over and over on the hook is simply unsportsmanlike and it needs to be recognized as disrupting normal game play. Its toxic and something needs to be done to greatly discourage it from happening. Proximity camping is toxic too and I don't care what anyone says about that. If it happens in the end game collapse that is one thing but before that is just toxic.
In my opinion the simple solution to this is just to make it reportable with levels of punishment for doing it. The first can be a warning so they know not to do it again. The next can be a 1 day suspension, then 3 day, then a week and then if they still keep doing it then just keep adding time to it. It doesn't have to be a ban so there can always be that chance that they get it and stop doing it. If there is any concern that it would deter people from playing killer or the game then wouldn't that be a good thing to have less killer players doing this? If steps are being taken to address it then isn't it something that is seen as problematic in the game? I do hope something can finally be done soon to put an end to face camping and hopefully other things as well such as tunneling and slugging in hopeless situations for the survivors.
Post edited by KateMain86 on0 -
'In my opinion the simple solution to this is just to make it reportable with levels of punishment for doing it. The first can be a warning so they know not to do it again. The next can be a 1 day suspension, then 3 day, then a week and then if they still keep doing it then just keep adding time to it.'
No? Just..no?
There's no set definition to what even face-camping is. Do you know how many BS reports for a Killer 'facecamping' when they were not doing so? Also; do you expect the devs to just take angry-they-lost Survivor's words on it?
Do you know how many times I've had salty Survivors accuse me of 'proxy facecamping' because I put my Hag/Trapper traps NEAR the hook? IE: In obvious chokepoints, not next to the hook itself). Now imagine 'facecamping' becomes reportable; Survivors who lost fair & square would report Killers for facecamping, just as as 'screw you'.
SWFs would group-report. Play Doctor? Reported for facecamping. Used NoED? Reported for facecamping. Managed to down everyone before 3 gens popped? Reported for facecamping.
The day the devs punish a tactic on behalf of whiny Survivors who can't stand losing is the day I uninstall this game, downvote it to oblivion, and never look back. This is a horrible, biased idea based on nothing more than 'I don't like facecamping, thus Killers should be punished so I can feel better'.
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Ground humping after every pallet drop, vault jump, at the exit gate, after a DS, overabusing the stunt mechanic of a locker, exploding generators continiously just to create noise, abuse of flashlights to bully killers and many many more things is something that simply ruins the game for me and many more in my experience. It happens in a daily basis and thats a fine thread that has a lot of killers on the verge of of leaving the game. A group of survivors doing the forementioned list of things over and over is simply unsportsmanlike and it needs to be recognizes as disrupting normal game play. Its toxic and something needs to be done to greatly discourage it from happening. Bullying the killer trought the game just for the sake of it and i dont care what anyone says about it. At any point it happens on the game its toxic.
In my opinion the simple solution to this is just to make it reportable with levels of punishment for doing it. The first time can be a warning so they know not to do it again. The next can be a 1 day suspension, then 3 days, then a week and then if they still keep doing it then just keep adding time to it. It doesnt have to be a ban so there can always be that chance that they get in and stop doing it. If there is any concern that it would deter people from playing survivors or the game then wouldnt that be a good thing to have less survivors players doing this? If steps are being taken to address it then isnt it something that is seen as problematic in the game? I do hope something can be finally be done soon to put and end the the continious abuse killers are subject to in a daily basis in this hopeless situation for the bullyed killers.
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Punishing with bans is not the way at all, it has to be something in the gameplay itself, otherwise players will find every possible way to evade the system, over the fact that it's just a bad idea. Proxy camping can be countered, the real problem is the uncounterable part of facecamping
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Well the point I was trying to make is that something needs to be done to simply discourage players from doing it. If something can't be changed or added within the game to do this then the only other thing I can think of is recognizing it as disrupting normal game play, which in my opinion it does, and giving warnings then suspensions for it. Once players see that happening I strongly believe most face camping would stop. The most annoying thing about this game for me and the thing that deters me from it the most is toxic killers. I used to love this game and invest a lot into it. The longer I played however the worse it got as I encountered more toxic killers.
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If you're trying to compare those things to being even half as toxic as face camping then you're completely wrong. Sorry but all the things you listed as "ruins the game for you" first and foremost do not prevent you from playing the match. Being face camped on a hook however does. There is no comparison in toxicity here. Also exploding generators to create noise? What? Did you mean locker because you know survivors can't actually make skill checks happen when they want just to miss them over and over to create noise. DS can be avoided. Its your fault if you pick up a survivor before the timer runs out. Flash lights are limited. They eventually and often very fast run out of charge. Bouncing up and down after a pallet drop actually gives the killer an advantage in catching that survivor... because they're not running from the killer when they do it. None of these things prevent you from playing the match. You know what usually prevents a survivor from playing though? Face camping. It takes a super coordinated effort to stop a face camp and even still its very risky.
You tried to mock me in your reply, and failed miserably. Face camping is a big problem. The things you mentioned are not. You can keep playing and do something about every thing you mentioned survivors doing. A face camped survivor relies solely on their team to try to get them out of that situation. It doesn't usually end well in my experience.
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Ok... but those "whiny survivors" who complain about face camping do it for a reason. Its not like were trying to make the game unplayable for killer mains or anything. Obviously there would need to be some kind of proof provided before anything is done if they ever recognized it as reportable. You shouldn't want to uninstall the game over this if its done fairly. Don't you think face camping might make survivor mains want to uninstall the game too? It sure has for me. I have stopped playing this game a lot in the past few months over toxic killers. Toxic play styles is the most frustrating thing about this game for me. This is a problem with the community and players of this game. Not everyone does it, but those that do have done it enough to bring light to the issue and make aware that it is in fact a problem in this game.
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'Ok... but those "whiny survivors" who complain about face camping do it for a reason'
No, no they don't. You missed the part where I've been accused of 'proxy facecamping' by Survivors too stupid to crouch over my Hag traps, I guess? Proxy facecamping. Which means I somehow facecamped while not being near the hook. Literally impossible.
I'll give another story, again as Hag:
I DO NOT put my traps near the hook. I find that cheap. I always put them in obvious chokepoints. Like where the pallets usually are. If Survivors would crouch-walk for 3 bloody seconds; they would be fine. I did NOT stop moving the entire match. I never stayed within 30 meters of a hook after hooking someone. In short; I never camped.
This team would NOT crouch walk, and did not have flashlights, and set off every trap. As I was downing the final survivor, literally less than a second after I hit him; he DC'd. He had his hand on his modem cord or something. He was READY to DC. But he was in the end-game chat afterwards with a 'Campers don't deserve a 4K!' I assume he proceeded to pat himself on the back for his wit while wiping the dribble off his chin with his baby bib.
Once again; I did not camp. My traps were obvious. Even if they were not obvious; you'd think the team would have learned after the first 3 times they went through a chokepoint & triggered one.
But, of course; if was all my fault. I was a filthy camper because Survivors said I was a filthy camper; reality & facts be damned.
Those are the type of people who would abuse reports for camping; Whiny Survivors incapable of admitting THEY made mistakes. It's always the Killer's fault. It's always <insert tactic they claim is 'OP'> fault. It's never them being out-played or stupid.
I've been called a camper when I never camped.
I've been called a tunneler because I found the unhooked Survivor 2 minutes after he was unhooked, because he decided to pop a gen before healing, and decided I was not allowed to ever hit him before he healed up. If he did not heal; I was apparently supposed to ignore him while he popped gens.
I've been called a Slugger by Survivors using that perk that mutes grunts of pain. Then I have to chase off 2 Survivors going to flashy-saves, and can't find the mute Survivor because he crawled into a corner. But it's my fault he crawled away in order to hide from me.
In short: Whiny, angry Survivors upset they lost should not be able to report Killers for a valid tactic just because their feelings are hurt over losing. Because they will, and do, blame Killers for every misstep they, themselves, make.
Suck it up if you get camped, because they day camping of any kind becomes reportable is the day Killers are reported for BS just for winning.
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Quite honestly i mock you often as your mentallity its very similar to that of hunter main, both are agresively viased towards demanding VERY ridiculous nerfs towards killers while at the same time demanding VERY idiotic buffs to survivors. For the most part i just copy paste your post with little teaks and change them to killer situations to show how ridiculous your post look, most people can se that as the hands up say something in comparison to you always geting quoted and heavily corrected on just how wrong you are most of the time. So you "might" tink i failed miserable, the peopel here on this topic clearly tink diferently.
That said going back to your "sugestion" its quite honestly a very dumb one, you arent creating a healty state for the game, you are just demanding an opresing "behave like i demand or screw you" type of place where everything its made in favor of survivors and screws over killers, i have seen you plenty of times demand very ridiculous nerfs to the game with no compensantion of any kind, while at the same time just demand survivors be handheld much more they already are, you just want an easy to win game for survivors, if you cant se that its not everyone else problem. You need to take not a step back but a good walk and se just how poorly structured your ideas are, how lacking of balance they are made and MAYBE you will be able to have a decent conversation with someone and not be bashed and rtidiculed as much as you are constantly.
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Sounds like you never play killer and you are just a subpar survivor on top of that. Sad.
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If hitting on hook and camping are so toxic and unsportsmanlike that it needs to be reportable and bannable, then so are flashlight spamming and teabagging. But no, you are too entitled to see that. Sad.
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Its not entitlement to point out the FACT that flashlight spamming (which is a limited charge item btw) and teabagging (which gives the killer an advantage if it happens at pallets or windows) is in any way comparable to the toxicity of hook camping and hitting. You can call it that all you want, but all you're doing is trying to divert away from the fact that killers who do that are being extremely toxic. Hooked survivors can't do anything against face campers. They rely solely on their team to help them out of a situation that could very easily end badly. There is no comparison here. The fact that people here are trying to compare these things as similarly toxic is laughable and shows great ignorance on this subject.
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You're mocking me to harass me in my opinion. You think my suggestions and opinions are too much, but they aren't. If you think face camping and hitting on the hook is in any way Ok in this game then you are completely wrong. I have met so many people who have said that face camping and other toxic actions by killers make the game unfun and unplayable for them. This is a problem. Me pointing that out is not saying anything new and it is not dumb. I'm not demanding anything. Stop putting words in my mouth. I am stating my opinion on what I think would make this game and its community a better experience. Look at how you responded to me. You're more interested in mocking me and insulting my opinions than you are in working together to come up with a good solution to this. Certain things in this game have to stop NOW. Camping has to stop NOW. Tunneling has to stop NOW. Unnecessary slugging has to stop NOW. It could all stop today if the people who do these things would simply stop doing it which would make this community better and the overall experience of the game for everyone better. That is what matters here. The toxic bull crap in this game has to stop and it has to stop now.
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Am i mocking you? actually i am, am i harasing you? not really, if thats what you feel its on you, then again i have seen a patern on you to make yourself a victim quite a lot, specially when people dont agree with you in any shape or form, you imediatly disregard what you are told and stick to your square shaped opinions, tinking you are the only one with a valid point, and the funny thing is im not the only person that has pointed out this, but then again, you always ignore this and just keep pretending your ideas are the only valid ones, you have some serious mental gimnastic going on in that side. Your sugestions arent "to much" they are for the most part straight out ridiculous or overly survivor sided, and just to point out the very few i remember at the top of my head:
Make survivors as fast as killers (ridiculous and quite dumb)
Give survivors BT to both on ANY kind of unhook (rewards survivors for dumb plays and just straight out prevents them from learning to do smart safes)
Report camping proxy camping or even patrolling (something that will create a super abusive system where entitled survivors will report killers for ANY dumb reason, and its a fact survivors will abuse this system, just as they abused the old proximity "anti camping" mechanics and devs straight out took it out of the game for that)
Survivors killing the killer (self explanatory, dumb beyond belief and completly againts the core concet of the game)
Demanding double the pallets on every map (wich is just as laguable as it sounds)
I could go on and on, but so far in all the time i been around the forum and seen your post, 99% of them are viased towards survivors buffs while at the same time nerf anything killer related, and im going to repeat it because you seem to always ignore it, plenty of people have pointed it out to you, and yet you keep ignoring it.
On the next point sorry but its laguable you tink your opinions and ideas are for the better of the game and the comunity, that unless whe go back to the main point of your viasness towards survivors, you lack a fundamental understanding of what its true balance, you varely ever give something in return to most of your ideas, going for both sides, demanding ridiculous buffs to survivors perks and mechanics, while at the same time demanding nerfs to killres powers and perks, and this isnt something new, again as it needs to be hammered down, PLENTY of people have pointed it out yet you always ignore it.
Mocking your ideas quite honestly its just a side thing when im around, but unlike you i have shared plenty of ideas that unlike yours, are tought with balance in mind, considering both sides and what could potentially be good and bad, but in all honesty i doubt you are ready for that conversation as its blatantly obvious to most people you (as i have repeated plenty already) always just look out for survivors buffs and killer nerfs.
The only thing whe might agree upon is that certain things hav eto change on the game, But unlike you i dont only se what i percieve as "bad" from the killer side, you want actual problems that need to be adressed aboce your petty needs to nerf killers?, heres a list:
Map layaout needs to be heavily adressed
Pallet distribution
Structures safetiness wich mixes with pallets, creating ridiculously safe areas for survivors to abuse quite easily
Match making
Survivor perks (like boons as one of the biggest problems in the courent game)
Game objectives (mostly the generators speed repair and the problem generators in themselves create as survivors are forced on gen repair simulator most of the game, creating a rift on the concept of killers chasing survivors and survivors running away from killers in a more organic and fun way)
Survivors items (mostly healing kits wich are a problem in the courent meta, specially convined with CoH wich just creates a tremendously unhealty enviroment for M1 killers wich are completly gutted and striped out of lasting preasure trought the game)
Killer balance to make the bottom of the barrel more engaging and up to par to A and above killers in order to create a more diverse experience
And theres plenty more problems wich are FAR more relevant, and why do i say this? simple. Unlike you i se the core problems of the game, and its NOT tunneling or camping, those are bioproducts of much more relevant problems wich IF where adressed would reduce said problems significantly.
If gen speeds are adressed killers wont be as preasured to rush the game, wich in turn meens they will not tunnel as much or even face camp (then again, there will ALWAYS be people doing this just for the lols, just like theres PLENTY of survivors going to games for the sole and ONLY purpouse to bully killers until they force them to DC something you rarely ever awknollege at all).
Another thing whe might agree upon is that the game has quite a lot of toxic things on it, but until you also aknowllege the heavy part survivors play on it, how they are just as toxic if not worse than killers, how they also push killers on DC constantly theres not much to talk about, you seriously need to take a few steps back and look at what you say and what you missed while being so stubornly fixated on tinking killers are the only ones creating a toxic enviroment for the game, not to mention you seriously need to take a long look at the MANY overpowered mechanics survivors have on their side and THEN whe might be able to start talking about proper balance for the game.
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Wall of text much?
I don't try to make myself out as a victim here or think that I am the only one with a valid point. I am simply giving my suggestions and opinions on things but yet when I do there are always those who come here and say things like "entitlement" when that is not how I feel at all. You misrepresented what I said when you mentioned my "make survivors as fast as killer" suggestion by not providing the entire context of that suggestion I made when I said it. I literally said when I made that suggestion that the LAST survivor when the hatch has spawned should be able to move around the map as fast as the killer so both the survivor and killer have a fair chance at finding it. Now when someone reads your reply and sees you say that they are going to get the wrong idea about me if they don't know what I really said. That alone is reason enough for me to ignore you from now on. If you're going to quote me, then quote what I actually said. And by the way, all of those things you mentioned that I said are just suggestions... in a feedback and suggestion forum. They are simply things I'd like to see in the game one day. I'm sorry but being able to kill the killer under the right circumstance makes total sense. I've watched a thousand horror movies in my life and the bad guys usually die in them. I never said make it an easy thing to do either. Of course it would be difficult to do. That would be the point. It would be a super risky thing to do but rewarding if its done. Killers can mori us so whats the problem with survivors being able to do the same to them? I don't feel like going over everything I've said in this forum just to appease you. If you don't like my feedback and suggestions, then don't read them. If you think mocking me all the time is a good way to respond to me then go for it, but you're wasting your time. If you care about mocking me rather than having a conversation on my suggestions then I don't care to hear from you.
Killers aren't the only ones creating a toxic environment in this game, but they are doing most of it in my opinion. Like I said, face camping and hitting survivors on a hook, as well as tunneling and unnecessary slugging is far more toxic than anything a survivor can do to the killer.
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I would love some to see some incentive for the killer to leave the hook and do something else, something like the devour Devour Hope/Make your choice mechanic, ie you get a token when the hooked survivor gets unhooked if you are something like 25 or 30m away when it happens.
It should be baked into the basic killer kit and no perk, we could call it "The Entities Blessing", "Survivors Curse" or "Splintered Hope" . A lot of things are possible like +1% speed/token, +3% bloodpoints/token, +2% faster sacrifice/token, +3% slower totem blessing/cleansing or maybe even some cool effect like rekindle one totem at 5 token.
Something that's juicy enough that killers want to go for it and that outweighs the risk/hassle of chasing survivors all game long, while not being too strong.
On the same page we could add some "Entity displeased" mechanic were the sacrifice speed slows down if you chill by the hook without another survivor around or maybe face camping fills up a bar and when its full the survivor can break free, stunning the killer with the splintered hook.
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Honestly, maybe a timed Points Combo; for 45 seconds after hooking a Survivor, the Killer earns more points in all 4 categories. This bonus gets another stack if he hooks another Survivor before it runs out.
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This would combo well with the problem of how though the killers "adept xxx" achievements are, without changing the condition of the achievement, which is a major pain with the Playstation network.
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For the way you speak and answer to other people, specially the ones that dont agree with you actually yes, you come out as tinking you are the only one with a valid point. The way you feel and the way you are percieved are two diferent ones, you "might" tink you are being fair with what you say, but most people percieve you as entitled to what you say and im not the only one that has seen and mentioned that to you, plenty of people have quoted you on that regard. No i didnt, its quite clear how unfair and one sided that sugestion is, theres no sliver of fairness on it. Just answer me this one question about your "as fast as the killer sugestion", whats the compensation to the killer with that, what makes its as fair to the killer to implement such a buff to survivors. Quite honestly i dont need to dive to much on that regard, plenty of people when reading your post know the kind of person you are, its not hard, if you havent noticed most people who quote you are almost always againts your ideas, correct you on why they are wrong or straight out wonder if you are being serious, go back to your own post and the many people who have quoted you. Ignore me if you want, that wont stop many people on the forum to call you out and quote you as much, in fact i can asure you, i wont be the last person to correct you on the way you tink, so you might as well start doing a long list of ignore people, altought that will surely let you with little people in the long run to have a discusion with. You do are right, those are sugestion, i never told you not to post them at all, but that wont stop them from being criticised by me and everyone else who feel like doing so. I a game that has had such things implemented from day one? sure it makes total sense to kill the killer (aka VHS), in a game where the core concept its to kill or run no, it doesnt make sense at all. Its not me the one going on the complete defense each time im quoted, thats on you, every time someone tells you why your ideas might be wrong or they are actually wrong you imediatly go "NO you are wrong and im right", you want to have an actual conversation? start being more open minded to the fact you might be wrong, you might be seying things on the wrong light or might be straight out biased about things, until you actually acept this things im going to tell it you straight out, you arent going to have a decent conversation around here.
You are right, killers arent the only ones creating toxicity on the game, but heres where you are wrong, survivors are just as toxic, but with this you are proving my point that you are biased towards the survivors, specially with your last words, if you cant se that survivors can be just as toxic in creating a horrible experience on the game, more so to one side that its just as important to the game (aka the killer) then you are showing your one sided mentallity on the mater, survivors can be just as toxic, survivors can be extremely entitled, survivors can, will and continiously haras killers into DC just for the literal sake of doing that, or are you going to tell me they dont do those things? sorry but if you say they dont you are just being absurdly blind to the mater.
You want to have an actual discusion? lets have, but seriously, leave your one sided minded opinions on the door and be more open to "concieve" the idea you can be wrong on your ideas, THEN whe might be able to go somewhere.
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Theres no point in having a discussion with you. Killer mains lose their freaking minds every time survivor mains suggest something here they think will just break the game for them. We can't suggest anything new without being talked down and made to think it was a bad idea if it involves allowing survivors do new things they couldn't do before usually it seems. Killers can play an offering that literally lets them murder survivors. What do survivors get in their offerings that is anywhere near that kind of offering? Nothing. Moris are an offering that lets killer perform unique actions on the survivors. Survivors do not have any offerings that let us do anything unique to the killer. Survivors should have a mori type offering as well. But I'm not going to keep arguing with that you here since its not even what this thread is about. Face camping is wrong and toxic. It needs to end now. My desire to suggest or hope for anything new and unique for survivors in this game just dies every time I come here. I've gotten to the point where I don't really care anymore. Its like a freaking sin for survivors to come here and suggest anything new it seems.
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As for the topic at hand, most of the suggestions seem to err on the side of making the game more forgiving for the survivor. While some of the ideas seem cool if you think of them only in terms of camping, but what about normal gameplay? As a preamble I play far more survivor than killer, so that people don't come at me with the now famous "ah killer main bias!". Now let's begin.
As an example "grab the rescuer when healthy (this should straight up be removed, it's such a simple and nice change)". It essentially stops punishment for mistakes made by the survivors in many situations. For example, let's assume i'm chasing and the survivor runs towards a hooked teammate. Then either that survivor I'm chasing or one of the other teammates try to unhook with me right there. Both are pretty big mistakes, but the second one is pretty egregious, what with the killer literally a meter away from you. With your suggestion I wouldn't be able to punish the survivor that made these mistakes, they get a "free" unhook. At most I can get a hit in, but most survivors of sufficient level try and bait the hit anyway to avid the grab, so it's a straight up nerf to the capabilities of a killer punishing survivors. So what would you give in return for such a nerf? Or how would you change the suggestion so that it only affects facecamping?
Post edited by Rizzo on0
