Something Has To Be Done About Bubba's Ability To Prevent Unhooks
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Not if you aren't wearing the right cosmetics lol
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If its so easy, why hasn't BHVR done it?
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Removing locker blinds was more important ig
Hopefully we'll see Bubba changes soon
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Well yeah they can mow through it but it is still used. It just requires bubba to hit with Chainsaw again (which isn't too hard given there's only about a second delay before they can be injured again)
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Because you don't have control over it, your team was bad, etc
Plus pips are supposed to represent how long you've played the game, not skill or how lucky you get
You can also still "win" and depip but that is usually because the survivor or killer was not doing enough
Imagine if a survivor could hold you in one place for 5 mins while all gens got done, and all they had to do was stand there, making you depip
That sound fair to you?
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People who say ''Just Do Gens'' never understand the point, it should never be impossible to save from the hook if a Bubba is face camping, there needs to be some change to give some counterplay in situation like that, because you are guaranteed dead if a Bubba decides to camp you, and your team can't do anything about it unless if they all want to die, there should be more counterplay instead of ''Just Doing Gens''.
I refuse to think that Bubba camping is balanced.
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its not about cosmetics, but ofc if you are wearing bright pink.. then you put this on your self.
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Whether a Player gained, kept, or lost Pips was determined by their performance in the Trial, as judged by the Emblem System.
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Solved! 😎
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There's no way to "perform" when you are camped on hook, even if you loop them for a long time you're still going to inevitably get caught and put on hook
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I always save survivors that are being facecamped by bubba, and oftentimes SWF players will abandon me to let me die, and sometimes solo players. But, I don't mind... because that's only happened with one bubba. I've had more freddies and wraiths facecamp than bubbas. If a bubba does facecamp me, I imagine it's an angry survivor playing killer, or a new player roleplaying.
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As i said before, you are not entitled to a win or a high score... 2k is a draw, so you should expect 2 on your team to die (you included). Some times 4 die and some times 4 escape, thats how the game works.
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Yeah but you can have agency in that win or loss. You effect the outcome by being an active participant in the match.
Bubba can win by removing player agency and using poorly designed mechanics to his advantage.
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Reassurance has that purpose. And most times he does not prevent unhooks but rather down one survivor while the unhooked runs away with the basekit BT. He also looses a lot of time camping, so just genrush and leave.
And to use reassurance just use his blind spots. If he sees you he will have to chase or stay. If he chases, someone else can go for the rescue. If he stays you will have used reassurance and will be busy for a longer time.
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Read the replies to understand why what you said doesn't work.
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And survivors can do the exact same, i have seen swfs with 4x sabo, 4x flashies, 4x boil over. where the killer can not get a hook, no matter how well they play. Should sabo, flashlights and boil over be removed too?
Its a part of the game, get a grip and move on to the next match...
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4x sabo does not prevent killer from playing. I know it's inconvenient, but those survivors need to spend a lot of time close to the downed person and are risking themselves + not working on the generators. If bleedout mechanism did not work, I would agree with you. But 4 people going for sabo plays usually means very long game where killer will win with 0 hooks but 4 bled out survivors (with a good chance 5 generators being still up).
On the contrary - Bubba will win said match if survivors don't bring reassurance
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I like how you are trying to quote mine me in your reply.. it was not the sabos alone, please read again..
Gens are fast AF to do with the current perks, so im not sure what you are trying to get at... if you dont have at least 2 gens done when the first person is downed, then its a skill issue on your part.
Also, it just need 1 person to leave the gen to do the save, not the whole team. My point is that it didnt matter if the killer changed target, because there was always someone near to do the save.
Have u had a look at all the gen rush perks the game has now?
Have you ever tried to look at how fast gens can be done? i mean by adding the numbers together. a gen prob takes about 35 secs to do with the current perks and toolboxes+addons.
How long does it take to die on a hook again??
Now tell me that its not in the survivors favour if the killer camps the hook.
That being said, i busted OP in lying in hes argument and then he changed hes argument to something about hes cosmetics instead, so im not sure how valid hes complain is in the first place, just sounds to me like they want free easy wins.
I did also bust you in lying btw..
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?????
OP wasn't lying. If you don't have green cosmetics, you are pretty visible so you can't hide there. You don't getting stuff is not lying.
And for me - how is that lying omg? You know what is a lie? Lie is saying best nurse can be very easily loop by person that just started to play the game. That's a lie.
As for my part. I don't consider NOT GETTING points as any kind of punishment. For this reason it's not a lie. You win the game by doing bare minimum. Your reward is the win. And you get it that way.
So the only one who does not tell the truth here is you by saying we are lying.
As for gens - maybe you did not notice patch 6.1. It's not rare at all for 0 gens to be done in a first chase. This wasn't the case in 6.0 and before. But in 6.1 this is norm (same as they popping right after you hook). Might be you haven't played the game recently.
Also for gen rush perks - outside of hyperfocus that very few survivors are able to apply there are not that many. On the contrary killers now have super duper strong and actually very oppressive regression perks that play huge role when there are 3 or less generators left. And sure there are good toolboxes, but you can't have both good toolbox and good medkit and good flashlight - so if those players take those toolboxes, you have easier time getting them down and keeping them injured. Killers have good addons - should we know remove those from game too? I mean MDR+chery blossom or range+recharge or C33+alch ring or tombstone piece or black incense or many many many addons that are also very very strong.
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Just stop lying now ok?
There are no open fields in front of any of the gates on that map, and there are a lot of hiding spots even with bad cosmetics.
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IDK what that is if not open field (of view = not possible to hide)? What do you mean OMG? I see a tree that occludes the gate. Or do you mean hiding behind open fence? You can move 1m and see the gate behind the tree and you don't need to move at all to see thru fence. Are you for real? I would use these images as a way that there is no way to hide. So you stop lying and immediately prooving in same post that you actually lie. Are you OK?
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there are Jungle gyms and litterly hiding spots all over...
Stone, fence, high walls, trees, bushes.
What do you need? a box to hide in? well there are lockers too.
^ The blue marker is the exit gate, and the red arrow is pointing to a jungle gym (high fences with loops and lockers)
^ The blue is the door again, on the left is a big hill to hide behind, on and to sneak around, again, loops where you can crouch, there is a river with a bridge where its easy to hide, and in front of the freaking gate is a huge platform that you can sneak around and loop on if needed (lockers here too)
^ again, lot of hiding spots, a jungle gym and some lockers
Yamaoka Estate and The Swamp are litterly the maps with some of the best, most and easiest hiding spots in the whole game.
If you cant hide in that enviroment, its really a skill issue.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
This entire Bubba discussion is too many years old and really needs to die. No one cares about this or expects a change except new players complaining or salty players who can't except you can still escape and the TEAM win by doing gens while bubba camps. This is why devs have it publicly stated camping and tunneling aren't reportable.
When I FIRST started maining bubba sure I'd camp. And I'd win alot. Then suddenly one day the other three survivors were able to crank out 3-5 gens before second hook and I started losing. I had to learn to play him for real.
I main Bubba. I play him fairly usually NOW. Well until recently when the survivor toxicity made me realize it doesn't matter
Many many many games where I've tracked hooking each person atleast 1-2 times before a kill and actively avoiding chasing someone if I know I hooked them last. Had my husband sit and watch some of the games. Still get insults and toxic ######### in the end game chat. So NOW I'm not handicapping myself. If I see the smart move is to leave hook, then I leave. If I see gens blocked/ people running to teabag and grab my attention by the hook (which means I know you aren't doign a gen. play better. don't do that then blame me I'm not taking the bait. Do you ######### gens.) at that point I'm not getting off of this hook. I wont intentionally tunnel but if you get unhooked and healed then can't stealth and I find you thats YOUR BAD GAME SENSE. NOT me tunneling.
Survivors train killers to play how they play not the other way around.
Look, at the end of the day Bubba isn't the problem. It's the community. I have seen LITERALLY EVER killer in this game camp. And it almost always works to a degree. Bubba is best at it but it's a community and behavior problem. People still camp with all killers and especially michael, billy, trickster, huntress, twins, artist. Even twins and artist who were designed with trying to prevent camping in mind can still do it pretty effectively. Do you suggest nerfing all of these guys too? What about wesker camping and most the team infected? What about a camping plague? Forces a risky down or trade because everyone is injured and can't unhook, or cleanse and give her a pool while STILL likely doing a trade anyway. Huntress camping with iri head? Michael in perma tier three/double red addons? Ive had double iri mikey games where they try the locker tech OR I just lunge and down them instead of mori. Just patrol and see someone running to hook and merc them. Nothing they could do. And that was leaving the hook and chasing someone I saw running to it from across several tiles. Not even true camping which would have been an assured two kill since they always think I ONLY have hair and not tombstone. Use the hair to bait the next survivors into thinking they are safe before the mori.
Bubbas camp for two reasons.
1.) Some people suck. Some people are just bullies and also bad at games and they are going to do this no matter what. Stop Bubba from camping they will just camp with someone else. You're just nerfing a character you aren't good enough to play around. Mummy dwight recently in a game I 3ked was so good I couldn't catch him with my saw. Point blank period could not catch him. Be like that.
2.) Until the devs do something about toxic behavior instead of only toxic chat/cheating, its not going to change. Point blank most killers just reach a point of not caring. We get insulted and trash talked and tea bagged whether we win/lose and whether we are fair/unfair and the stupid "fair" rules are made up by survivors anyway, not even the actual game rules.
tl;dr bubba isn't the problem. It's a toxic community and bad survivors. Bubbas are just capitalizing on those two things and will do so with the next killer most able. You guys nerf bubba you're just going to make them pick the second bets camper and sprinkle on some tunneling. Or they get good and switch to nurse like I'm trying to do.
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You are aware that door spawns are RNG, right? Our door spawns were on one side next to a Gazebo and a rock pallet.
Likewise, you didn't "bust me for kying." My argument hasn't changed. I was completely removed from the match through no fault of my own. Bubba brought perks to help him in this strategy so that even though my team performed the proper counterplay, he STILL won using essentially zero effort.
To every casual observer, you've clearly lost this argument and are just spewing out random things.
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I appreciate you trying to make this an us vs them thing but don't. It isn't like that.
This is a bad game mechanic. The counters to it don't work unless you have ideal circumstances and even then, the Killer can bring perks to tilt it further in their favor. My team actually performed the correct counterplay. Bubba still got 3 Kills.
It's bad game design and I'll continue to speak out against poor and unfun mechanics.
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Considering the killer is supposed to be a power role, the devs intentionally buffed them to have slightly over 50% kill rates, and the POINT of the game for survivor is to feel like youre going to die, no. I think you people just don't want to play the game as intended. Just like it was built intentionally without in game comms to avoid swfs but you still do that. Hell I do too- take every advantage you get. Same goes for camping. I've camped with bubba and seen four man escapes and I've not camped and gotten 4ks.
Skill. Issue. Even if one person dies and three escapes that a victor for the survivors and a loss for the killer who depips and loses mmr (if mmr is real, I'm still convinced it's a lie from the devs and gotten "hidden" but really just removed to shorten queue times. But thats another topic.
You don't see too man top streamers camping as bubba because it only works well against low skill players. At BEST it's a 1-2.5 kill average against good survivors.
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Pretty sure Otz did an experiment where he camped as Bubba for a whole day.
Even against really good Survivors who knew exactly what they were doing and what build Otz would be running, he still got 2 kills.
It's not a skill issue, it's a design issue. If you can't see that, you need to take off the bias glasses like I have. Even as a Killer main, I can see that this sort of thing isn't fair and isn't healthy for the game.
Like, come on, they removed locker saves because it wasn't fun for Killers to play against.
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2k is still a draw... Stop the self entitlement PLEASE...
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If you are using the games widely considered to be most learned and one of the best- if not THE best- killer players to prove a point then there is literally no point in discussing anything with you. .
"Basketball isn't fair cuz Michael jordon dunked on a bunch of high schoolers" lmao thats the argument you made
90% of this player base is so far below otz in terms of killer skill it's laughable. I love otz and watch him more than any other streamer but it's ridiculous to bring up 1% players to address issues that are game wide.
Also the fact even otz averaged two kills just proves my point further. At a certain point skill does beat camping bubba. If even otz can't get a 100% win rate camping with bubba then I refuse to believe it's such an issue.
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Yes. A 2K is a draw. A draw against some of the best Survivor players who KNEW it was going to be a face camping Bubba prior to the match starting.
They knew all that, prepared accordingly and STILL only managed a draw. What does that mean for the rest of us?
Also, I don't think you are arguing in good faith.
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He was playing against Survivors of equal, if not higher, skill than him.
In public matches, sure. He managed a 100% win rate there.
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So at HIS skill HIS survivors can beat bubba.
So at YOUR skill YOU should beat similarly skilled bubbas.
Again, of course the games BEST killer player will dominate with him camping in public matches. Still not in fair balanced ones though.
Unless your killers are otz level you should be getting killers YOUR level and averaging two escapes.
You guys have to stop assuming that
1) otz and other streamers are gods because they are good at this game
2) anything otz says while often aimed at the entire player base, not keeping in mind the nature of his skill tier when he speaks is ridiculous, and its' even more ridiculous when people want to bring him up for EVERY argument. I swear I've seen his name mentioned on both sides of almost every discussion in this game at this point.
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That's....not how that works.
There's a certain amount of coordination required to win against a facecamping bubba. He doesn't need to do anything except sit there and look pretty and bring a good build.
In order to beat the Bubba in the gideo in my post, we need to do the following:
Run Gen rush perks.
Have Reassurance or Kinship and pray that whoever has it doesn't get hooked first, like I did.
Run chase perks to extend the down.
Immediately assume he's going to camp.
Immediately run towards the Killer because of Corrupt so we can immediately start on gens.
Start 4 different gens.
Work around dead lock.
Bait out NWO and hide for 40 seconds.
Successfully open a door and escape, even though he could see both doors.
That's an insane amount of coordination to ask of four random players who don't know what they're getting into.
Why wouldn't you want to reward Killers for more skill-based gameplay? Why are you okay with people putting in a minimum amount of effort and getting a better result than someone who shows more skill? Shouldn't we change it to reward skilled plays and disincentivise stuff like this? How wouldn't that be a positive change?
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I'm not saying we should always escape. I'm actually one to not care for escapes really unless I have a challenge that requires me to do so
"2k is a draw" sure but you're out the game, it does not matter what the game result is, you still lose a pip and that's what I'm trying to focus on here
You can be the only one that died at the very start and you still depip, it matters 0 what the game ends up being after you die
I'm not saying we should be able to get off the hook automatically and the exit gates magically get powered, I'm saying survivors shouldn't really get punished for a situation you couldn't do anything in
Have you not played survivor and didn't lose all 4 pips before?
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First of all lets all lower our tones. Clearly some of us- likely myself Included are getting too upset over a game right now.
that being said
i mean youre supposed to run chase perks and gen rush perks. a care gens and chases. If you want to run non optimum perks you're going to get non optimum results.
I'm also not arguing that a camping bubba can ALWAYS have a safe unhook. I'm arguing that there is no reason for a camping bubba to get more than two kills unless survivors are misplaying or he brings rancor and saves the obsession
And unfortunately friend ANY killer in the game can camp out two hooks if they try, he just does is easier. But they can ALL do it. Hell they can all do it and bring rancor. A CAMPING kill just needs deadlock, corrupt, no way out, and rancor, to camp and get 2-3 kills per day
I was wanting to see how well reassurance would work and did some test games with bubba when it came out on ptb. I ran bubba camping builds and the same builds on some other killer. And the math said even reassurance wouldn't help and I was right it doesn't. Because like you said and I do agree- camping requires no skill. Even if you pause the hook timer if the killer is willing to camp and lose it is what it is. Only safe unhooks will beat a camping killer, bubba as other wise. but what i really learned in my experiments were the moment i camped someone (and again i find is lame and boring myself and try not to do it, i felt bad for these test matches and typically appologized for them) so many survivors swarmed the hook clicking and teabagging and not doing gens, that the person just always died with no gens being done. I won like ten games in a row as legion/deathslinger just camping because no one would do gens. That is 100% a survivor skill problem
secondly bubba is VERY easy to loop into a tantrum. Camping bubbas are usually BAD bubbas. My buddy routinely just takes the chase the moment we hear a saw cuz he loops the bubba 3-5 gens and we get an assured 3 escape everytime unless he finally catches my friend and we all bounce and take the 3Escape.
I admit bubba camps better and I admit its unfair
but bubba isn't the problem there. Camping is. I've been camped by probably every killer in this game at this point and without a swf on comms its always I die on hook or get farmed by a dumb teammate who could have been on gens.
It's a game design problem not a specific killer problem.
Double iri michael? lunge to down someone instead of kill them. Hook them. Collect salt when the first person coming for the unhook gets moried.
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Then the game design should be fixed. Promote more skilled plays. That's the real issue. Some people just want to ruin other people's experiences. No amount of incentives will fix that.
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That attitude right there shows me you aren't playing the game at the same level. You can't say "oh im out the game im mad" in a TEAM game. Sometimes you just have to take the bench so the other players can thrive. Sometimes it'll be them and not you. Thats the point of the game, especially considering comms aren't even supposed to be used from the original balance and design stand point (that is only for me to emphasize my point, i 100% standby swfs on comms being the only way survivor can be played)
if you dont care what happens after you die then thats the problem. Every survivor plays that way in a TEAM game. You literally have an alturism category.
you get hooks by camping bubba and #########. great. now your team loses because you through a tantrum and didn't care what happened after you died
but i am 100% sure if you were on a gen and saw the player not care about what happens after you would def be mad because it could have bought you gen time.
This entitled attitude of "i only care about MY fun" in a team game sounds like the bigger issue. If you admit you don't care about the team after you die then that means you're playing like it.
This is why you don't like the counters
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I don't think that's what they are arguing.
They care about the BP bonuses you get at the end of the month for your Grade. As a Survivor, your ability to pip is largely dependent on how nice the Killer is going to be. If you get camped (or tunneled out) you aren't going to pip and it isn't really your fault for not being able to work on a gen or save a teammate.
Removing the ability to de-pip would help solve that issue.
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That we can agree on. The balancing around a lot of core mechanics needs to be looked at. The game is not anywhere near what it was when it launched. There is significant power creep and whole community is in this us vs them mentality so often.
camping is pretty ######### and shouldn't happen. At the same time there are some parts in some matches where its literally required or encouraged. match making is also bad.
for all this complaining id like to give a shout out to the devs. we all whine alot but from when i started to now the games glitches and graphics are improved so much over the year and despite the whining i do love playing.
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pips are pointless. if you can't derank pips just mean time played- like you guys said losing four pips. But I remember fully losing ranks entirely. Rank MEANT you earned it. Now you just play enough and pip up. Frankly I don't validate that opinion.
You play enough you get everything and stop caring about bloodpoints anyway. Also if they are focusing on points instead of winning.....that may be relevant to their playstyle and why they aren't winning
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No. I keep saying it but you seem to ignore me.
I don't CARE about escaping most of the time, I'm not saying I should escape all the time, I'm not mad that I was killed. But it IS annoying to lose your pips over it
I don't care if I don't get to "play the game" that's not what I'm saying here. I'm saying I lose progress on a thing that is supposed to determine how much time I've played, not skill
Let me reiterate once again: I don't care about "winning", just keeping my pips and getting challenges done
I don't care about escaping and am not mad when I die
The problem I have about it is NOT that the tactic is strong or keeps them from playing the game, but that the survivor loses pips over it
Sure its a "team" game but that's only if you're trying to "win". I'm not, I'm only trying to keep my pips and do tome challenge
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So you're admitting you dont care about your team only your own points? Classy.
Secondly the killer kicks the gen, you wait and do more gen. It's more points for you. It has nothing to do with pips and only increases the time spent doing your light bringer achievement so I don't even think you understand how the pips work. Secondly since moving from ranks to grades pips mean NOTHING. Used to we depipped back entire ranks (now called grades). You'll still earn those pips back even if you lose if you just play enough, they are easy to earn and worth nothing at this point but a few measly bloodpoints. And you must be new because usually after 1.5-2 years most players have everything unlocked or prestige. Def not what you should be focusing on to improve enough to beat eruption clearly.
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Why are you determined to make him the villain?
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So best survivors KNOWING they will get face camping bubba, could prepare for it, made very specific build just for this killer (remember - survivors normally don't know who they will be facing), that are usually able to 4-man out against even very good nurses. After all this preparation could not get a win? When otz did bare minimum? So even proposed counterplay WHEN YOU KNOW (so 0 lost time) is not good enough - is fair because after these huge killer handicaps survivors were able to draw by immediately using best counter tactics? You must really be joking when you say this is OK.
Well probably it's time to reintroduce permanent hook sabotages and say "you can counter it - just slug those survivors or bring them to basement - you already have 2 counters".
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First of all, i want to apologise for my tone, im sorry if i got too upset over the debate, this was not my intention.
tbh... until lately i actually was the first one to die on the hook, for a very long time. And yes i hated it (im looking at you Nurse).
but i enter the match with the expectation that i will not survive, that isnt my goal anymore. I want to have fun, thats my main goal. This dosnt mean that im not trying to survive, because i am. But i changed my tacticas and my perks, even my main survivor to Ace, because hes very stealthy. - And it does pay off, also actually the challenges (stun the killer x times in a round) have helped me, i have now lerned successfully to stun the killer and not die.
The result is that.
1). Im not using meta perks
2). Im having fun, both if i die or not, unless i get tunneled out for no reason. (by this i mean that if i stunned the killer 3 times, i also asked for extra attention, and i know its my own fault if im getting tunneld after doing that)
3). I do survive a lot more than i did before.
4). Im not getting upset about camping, if im the one that are hooked, i try to waste so much time from the killer as i can. If someone else is on the hook, i sneak up close and use Diversion if i have that on my build, if not i wait for a team mate to get killers attantion and then i unhook from a 180 degree angle so that the hooked person is inbetween the killer and me. its not 100% success rate, i dont think im entitled to that too, but its close.
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I simply refuse to believe "If it is unfun, it should be removed" as a valid argument.
But that logic, I want flashlights removed because they are unfun. I want Blight removed because he is unfun. I want the sprint burst on Nemesis infection removed because that is unfun.
If you removed everything someone found unfun, the entire game would be stripped down to nothing.
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They removed flashlight locker saves for essentially that reason.
it felt awful to go against. They've already set the precedent.
Likewise, wouldn't it be better to promote more skillful tactics? Does it not seem unfair that a facecamping Bubba who puts in zero effort gets the same result as a Killer who plays normally and gets 2 Kills?
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Started playing near sadako released so yeah I'm not a veteran
I've never reached iri 1 as survivor and I play the game really often too
Why can't we just agree that depips need to go though? Nobody likes them, and it exists only to cause frustration
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No, they removed the locker thing because there was nothing you could do about it.
I've seen camping Bubbas get outplayed. Hell, I've DONE it. It's not impossible. It IS impossible to avoid a flashlight save that takes place while locked in an animation.
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