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The reason behind "no kindred basekit" is stupid imo
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Yeah can't wait for DS to be basekit as well
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I know I am on the unpopular opinion side but I don't think it is a simple as Kindred Base Kit = SWF.
At the end of the day you are giving survivors a fifth perk slot that solo and swf benefit from. Everyone now has automatic information without communication.
I think the better solution is to just add coms instead of making perks 'base kit'.
There is also always the option to just run Kindred and/or party up with other people.
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I personally (and I think many others who play solo a lot) dont want to the game balanced around voice coms. It shouldn't be needed/required to talk, just to be able to enjoy the game and be strong in a team. Apex legends for example: no voice communication between solos, yet they found a way to give them tools to combat others who are on voice coms. Are these tools 100% equally strong as voice coms? No, on some aspects weaker, in other aspects stronger. But it's the main thing needed and provided to balance and it works
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Because it's pretty obvious that if you give every survivor full aura reads on all other survivors AND the killer that it would be overpowered when you consider that they all have 4 free perks slots.
Like explain to me how it would be balanced. You can't. There is no need for this. If you play solo then either ignore the guy on the hook and finish a gen or take the risk the killer is camping and go for the save.
It's really not hard to know when you should and should not be going for a save. If you are on a gen, and see another survivor take a hit that's usually a cue for you to go save.
Four top tier survivors in a game do not NEED Kindred. Not in the slightest.
This won't work, you're just ruining the already delicate balance of the game to account for SWF. Yes, SWF is an advantage, but to build that strength into the game would just break the game. You get power creep and eventually everything is so powerful that the game is no longer fun for anyone.
The goal should not be to make solo as good as SWF. The goal should actually be to limit SWF in some capacity such that it's more of a challenge for them. It makes more sense to bring down the strong stuff than to make everything overpowered.
Probably the absolute best way to do this would be to say "only 1 instance of a perk in an SWF". This way you don't get games where everyone runs BT/Adren/DS/DH. Everyone would need their own build and they would have to spread out the powerful stuff. That is a very simple balance solution to SWF, and as a survivor main I would be totally okay with it.
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Sooooo....
- Buff solos some
- Buff Killers some
- Buff solos some more
😅
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Killer shouldnt camp, simple. No need to handhold camping killers so they can keep abusing it against solo survivors.
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Yeah sure, baby steps should do it do the impact isn't extreme from one day to another. Sadly, we haven't seen any baby steps nor plans.
Devs keep saying "Yeah yeah want to balance solo/swf" since years but can't even do simple stuff. They just recently removed seeing rank in lobbys which makes solo a bit more painful and frustating again. Especially since matchmaking is so broken that yellow and red ranks can be mixed.
Idk, these devs... I feel like the only way they finally man up and fix this game is if they felt in the pockets.
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Because if its basekit, EVERYONE knows what the killer is doing AT ALL TIMES.
Without it, 3 teammates have to wonder who's saving you, will they get caught, etc.
If its basekit, literally everyone will know they have x time before they have to move and the killers exact placement.
Ita a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why it's not in game, you're just not thinking about every aspect.
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It might not be as contradictory as is seems at first glance. My guess is, and it is only a guess, that most swf groups are just having fun playing with their friends. They aren't super try hard. They are just playing for fun. Which probably means their survival rate isn't much higher than solo. This would mean there aren't enough try hard swf groups to offset it. Meaning the overall survival rate isn't that different. Which would mean the recognize the power of the try hard 4 man swf, and want to level it out.
All this is just speculation. But I think it's probably the thought process they're using.
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If the killer camps you do gens. If you camp against good survivors, SWF or solo, you will lose.
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'Kindred basekit provides way too much information'
Isn't that the ######### point? Most SWFs already have access to this information without needing to run the perk. The hypocrisy baffles me.
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Are you new to DbD?
Imagine having faith in 2019 that BHVR can significantly buff solo survivors and then “just balance accordingly” when it comes to killers. Yeah sorry but no, I don’t feel like waiting until 2028 for killer to be playable again.
As I said earlier, Kindred isn’t just about seeing a camping killer. The info it gives you is huge. Also do you really need the devs to admit SWF breaks the game? Of course SWF breaks the game. But the solution isn’t to just go ahead and break the rest of the game.
Imagine there’s a MP shooter where one weapon is far beyond anything else. What a good developer would do is balance that weapon around everything else. What some people here seem to believe for whatever reason is that instead of fixing the broken element, you buff everything to match that broken aspect of the game. So instead of one super broken weapon they’re all super broke. But oh don’t worry because then you just “balance accordingly” 😆
If any of you guys cared about real balance you’d be begging for SWF to be brought DOWN to solos, not solos brought to the same broken status as SWF.
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Yeah, the developers already know SWF is powerful, and it's the main reason why they want to buff killers
afterthey close the gap, Boss.If they didn't think SWF was strong, why would they feel like they need to buff killers after solo survivors gain the power level of SWF? 😁🤗
Personally, I agree with OP, and this makes me upset as a player to see perks being used to balance the game (I don't think I'm the only one who thinks this). Perks aren't meant to be used as balance, but to either change your playstyle or prevent/hinder other playstyles.
- Make Your Choice: Rewards a playstyle (Not Camping).
- Urban Evasion: Rewards a playstyle (Stealth).
- Infectious Fright: Rewards a playstyle (Snowballing).
- Decisive Strike: Prevents/hinders a playstyle (Tunneling).
- Shadowborne: Prevents/hinders a playstyle (Stealth).
- Camaraderie: Prevents/hinders a playstyle (Camping).
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Yes, SWF is broken and breaks the game. We all know that. Where the logical ones are confused here is how exactly does giving every single survivor all of that info for free basekit make the game any better for anyone except survivors.
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You seem to be under the impression that killers won't get buffs after this implementation.
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Yes, the developer who has been unable or unwilling to buff killers to a balanced level will suddenly now be able to get it done just because they give all survivors a massive buff. Makes sense.
Again, what game have y’all been playing the last few years? 😆
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But you miss this important key point: having solos closer to SWF allows muuuch more buffs for killers in order to finally combat swfs. Otherwise we will be stucked in this unbalanced mess (sweaty tryhard swf groups making a complete joke about killers, sweaty tryhard killers making a complete joke about solos).
Seriously, NOONE is winning if we don't do this step. The onky group which keeps laughing is swf. They are the power role and will remain it, unless we finally fix this big issue between solo Q power potential and swf power potential.
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The one that buffed Ghostface and Demo after the ptb. The one that made one of the worst killers in the game, one of the best after their rework.
What game have you been playing where you ignored those changes?
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The reason why they are unwilling to buff killers to be able to combat sweaty swf groups is this: solo survivors exists and are the majority. If they would buff killers to combat swf groups at current state, you know exactly what's going to happen to solo Q.
It's 2 issues going hand in hand, and they can only be resolved if we fix both of them (at the same time).
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All meta perks should be base kit; if the reason for not making perks accessible is because "They are too strong for everyone to have" that means you messed up and need to fix something, not just make it hard for survivors to unlock.
It's a competitive freaking game not a single player RPG. This logic is what really shows the devs inexperience I think.
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not like if is rare perk to see in higher ranks i can say that 8 out of 10 games in red ranks i see ruin.
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you dont get it, its about making SWF and Solo more similair in balance, then they can balance the game around that.
SWF can tell eachother what they are doing and if the killer is close to them, that is exactly what Kindrid does and thus would pull these 2 more together, that is the entire point....
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No. The point is to balance and level the playing field. Not give excess information because a small (1-4%) of the playerbase has and abuses (heavily overused word) extra info.
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You just admitted that SWFs have already that info, yet state that it's not 'levelling the field' if solos have it to.
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There's no possible buff that the killer can receive to offset the free flow of information between SWF without breaking the game in their favor - the proposed plan of buff solo to SWF levels and then buff killers is never going to happen in the game's lifetime.
The best you'll get are band-aid fixes to perks which still leave solos at a disadvantage, as they are forced to give up build variety to 'be on par.'
Let's pretend that SWF and Solo are now magically on par (I dunno how) - How do you bring killers up to a level that combats all this freeflowing information while still keeping the game balanced, fun, and worth playing?
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Hmm nope. Saying that a person do something stupid is not calling nor thinking that person is stupid, chill down.
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2nd objective is the one most important buff killers need
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"man that is a dumb comment you posted"
^yeah, it kinda is.
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I would love it if Kindred and Ruin were made as base set to their respective roles, as I'm sure many people have requested before. Unfortunately, removing perks from the game entirely isn't something that really happens in DBD.
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It's not. A person (me, in example) can say/write some stupid things but that doesn't make me stupid, if what I say sounds stupid it's not because I am. Is it? And that's coming from a sensitive man.
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I personally (and I think many others who play solo a lot) dont want to the game balanced around voice coms. It shouldn't be needed/required to talk, just to be able to enjoy the game and be strong in a team.
The whole reason people want Kindred Base kit is because some people are on coms, and some are not. No? So how can you say 'don't balance around voice coms'?
What is the argument for Kindred Base kit then?
If we do as you say, and this discussion isn't about communication, and just having information readily available, then you are just asking for a 5th perk slot... which is why the Devs are not keen on it.
Apex legends for example: no voice communication between solos, yet they found a way to give them tools to combat others who are on voice coms. Are these tools 100% equally strong as voice coms? No, on some aspects weaker, in other aspects stronger. But it's the main thing needed and provided to balance and it works.
Apex Legends is a Battle Royal... Dead by Daylight is an Asymmetrical Survival game. What works for Apex will not work for DBD. That is comparing Apples and Oranges.
With Apex every team has the same objective, they just have to out perform the other teams. With Dead by Daylight the Survivors have their own objective, and the Killer their own, which contradict one another.
I know Survivors don't like camping and tunneling but that is just part of playing killer. Killers don't like looping and stuns, but that is just part of playing survivor. That is how Asymmetrical game are
The game was designed for lack of information on the survivor part. Having swf changed it a bit but it's not enough to be a bother. I am not saying they can't be powerful, but most swf are just chatting and playing together, not going full pro team.
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Why would an intelligent person make dumb remarks?
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That's not on the roadmap for year 4, as far as I can tell.
Have the devs mentioned anything concrete about it?
I honestly feel like it will never happen.
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I still have yet to see anyone say what four perks are so important, so core to the survivor experience, that no one is willing to trade ONE of them for Kindred. Because ultimately that's what you're saying if you want it basekit. "I am unwilling to change a perk off for Kindred, but I also REALLY like what Kindred does and would like to be able to have and use it."
The devs have said that a second reason they don't want to make it basekit is it would buff SWF too. Which it would. No need to waste time telling each other where everyone is if you can...you know, spin your camera and see it all yourself in a fraction of the time. I've run it in a 4 man SWF in 2017, long before the buff, and it was genuinely beneficial to do so. So I'm sorry, but I'm really not seeing the part where SWF isn't impacted by making it basekit.
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That's not the point of my comment but even inteligent people sometimes think or say dumb things. Being inteligent doesn't mean you're some kind of God who knows everything. Sometimes, based on your info you can deduct something that for people who knows exactly how that works will think it's stupid but that doesn't make you stupid, there are no relation between those two things.
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Way too much information. I'm glad kindred is not free.
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GF didn’t receive anything substantial. Demo is still one of the weaker killers. Either way you’re trying to compare small QoL changes for two killers with completely overhauling the mechanics of the game. Because that’s what it would take to buff killers to a point where they match SWF.
Also, are you really bringing up Freddy? 😆
It took them over a year to rework one killer, who they’ve already nerfed of course. As I said, I’m not trying to wait around until 2028 for the killer role to be playable because they buff solos to match SWF. You’re literally making my point by mentioning Fred.
Again, anyone who really cares about balance would be wanting SWF taken down a peg or two. Not solos buffed to match broken SWF.
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'Devs have been unable to buff killers.'
'None of the buffs helped.'
Pick one and stick with it.
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I would love for a secondary objective to be added.
Give something more engaging to survivors to complete and prolong the time of matches. Hopefully we see something like this soon ^^
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I dunno how that will work out though. Remember the Hallowed Blight event in 2018 when every survivor was killing themselves for the petals? It was boring to play killer because you just destroyed everyone and frustrating for survivor because everyone killed themselves for the petals.
If a secondary objective was added for survivors, it can’t be a huge objective or matches will be super boring and predictable.
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Ah I missed Halloween 2018. I think I started playing NOV 2018. I remember being around for the Christmas event.
I will youtube it to see what you are talking about ^^
As a survivor I always though having something else to do would make the game a bit more fun.
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I said buff killers to a balanced level. If you have to cut off half a sentence when quoting it, maybe just don’t quote it? 😆
Please list for me all of the killers you think BHVR have given us that are balanced with SWF. Because I can list a large chunk of them that aren’t even balanced around high rank survivors let alone SWF.
Hope that helps.
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camping is a legitimate strategy, this would be big nerf to it. not gonna happen.
Imagine if killers got NOED basekit, ruin basekit and BBQ basekit then.
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No I get it. What you don't get is something called power creep. Google it.
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You missed the point I was trying to make, but I'm kinda to lazy to explain myself a 3rd time. Read again what I said, maybe you understand it
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Buddy, stay in your bubble and stop annoying me. Thanks.
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That's not a good examples. Them flowers were needed to unlock cosmetics + it wasn't needed to do in the first place to open gates. Obviously, people abused it to farm vials afap
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What kind of camping? After all gens are done, or last gen is right next to the hooked person at 99%?? Yes, that's absolutly legit. And Kindred basekit wouldn't make a difference in such a situation cuz survivors would swarm around the hook and around the 99ed gen anyway. Exposing your position by kindred wouldn't make a difference in such a legit scenario.
On the other hand, an insidious facecamping Bubba in the basement at 5 gens up with ruin and noed for later... Is Not a legit strategy in my opinion. This shouldn't be working and should be able to be punish hard by solo survivors like it's punishable hard by swf groups.
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Needing a secondary objective to open exit gates would be a bit much don’t you think? As a killer I already win about 85% of my matches. I don’t want to have my matches be predictable and boring.
Adding a secondary objective similar to cleansing totems wouldn’t be a bad idea.
Sitting on generator is boring so adding a secondary objective is a great idea. Having it be a MANDATORY objective for opening exit gates would be a little bit much. Players really don’t realize that as a killer they win most of their matches (if they’re good).
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If you want Kindred then use Kindred. Either it's worth a perk slot to you or it isn't. Don't expect everything for free.
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