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NOED nerf compromise OR be nerfed into the ground
Comments
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How about a NOED which is not a totem that only works if there are more than 2 survivors alive when all gens are completed? It would deactivate once the killer makes its second kill(with a penalty if it decides to slug). It should be a compensation perk, not a crutch perk. I heard people saying that, for a killer, 2 kills is a draw, 3 is a win, and 4 is a victory. That way the killer could get at least 2 kills, instead of slugging all the party or having NOED cleansed.
Note: The main idea is that only works when there are more than 2 survivors, and a counter-side if the killer decides not to kill anyone.
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I'll admit that I can't stand NOED and never use it. I play killer and survivor equally (more killer recently because of the queue times....but I digress). I understand some people like NOED, so let's seek a compromise!
Here's my ideas to make this perk less annoying:
- The OP's idea of a 7 second cooldown after a survivor is downed, seems good. Perhaps this could be affected by the 3 perk tiers?
- Consider a totem counter in the survivor HUD, perhaps as part of a perk. I heard recently that the devs are looking at buffing some survivor perks - including Smallgame.
- There's no need for a speed boost with this perk - the instadown is powerful enough. So re-impliment the previous perk tiers: tier 1 affects 2 survivors, tier 2 affects 3 survivors and tier 2 affects 4 survivors. Tier 1 in it's current state is too devestating!
- Give the survivors some indication that NOED is active. So give the hex warning when the final generator is completed - don't wait until the first victim is insta-downed.
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If you read my other posts here I already answered all this.
Besides, we already agree gens are too fast.
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One perk shouldnt be able to to affect the other team on this scale. Especially if its this strong and doesnt require any effort from the side using it. Its like you are forced to slug all the time because of DS, and survivior just has to rush gens right in your face for it to work.
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In answer to the popular argument, "Just do totems!" ...
I agree to a great extent, however, it's not always so simple.
What do you do when the survivors are under a lot of pressure? There could be 3 survivors remaining. Then, 1 survivor gets hooked. What do you do? Join Dwight on the final generator, cleanse the dull totem next to the generator or run halfway across the map to save your teammate? You could argue that the killer in this example has earned the right to NOED, having played well. I have mixed feelings about this. But my point is: it's not always as simple as telling people to 'just cleanse totems'.
I agree that survivors should cleanse totems when they come across them. But again - what if you're under a lot of pressure? It's all about priorities.
What about those totems that are in obscure places - off the beaten track, so to speak? If you're under pressure to complete objectives by a comptetant killer - should you really go searching for totems in the corners of the map? Without a totem counter, you don't even know if such totems even exist.
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It's fine how it is, just do totems.
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Dymo pretty much summed it up for me. I just came to say don't slug for DS, eat it ASAP so they can't use it against you later and viola, no more DS. 🤷♀️
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Adding a totem counter for survivors would be seen as a massive nerf to some people towards noed.
I think if you want something to remain in its current state people should explain why and not just say whether they agree or not.
For every person agreeing or disagreeing with my suggestion that a nerf is coming for noed there is another person thinking the exact opposite from your opinion. This is why people want it removed from the game completely.
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So you tell me to break my momentum early so its not broken late game? It is a solution, but there is no other perk that has power like that. Every perk in this game has a workaround (even that abdomination called NOED), current DS has NONE.
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Literally the only compromise I've seen in this thread asking for a compromise.
Instead of everyone getting defensive about noed ever getting changed, suggest what version of noed would be ideal for you.
If you say the current noed then you're just gonna be disappointed because that's how it works.
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I thought of a good balance to noed. Do bones.
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So survivors should get to know what perks the killers are running? That would be no different than saying that killers should know when a survivor has ds so they don't pick them up and get stunned and if they still pick them up they deserve to get stunned. See how that sounds?
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If you play solo you're screwed when it comes to trying to cleanse all the totems. For one, you're wasting a large amount of time not doing gens because the killer may or may not have a perk. 2 you don't know how many totems have been cleansed or not cause you can't communicate with the other survivors. And 3 if you do to find all the totems and cleanse them who's to say that you'll even get that far to end game because you've spent most of the time looking for totems and cleansing them.
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Noed sucks tbh. We all just escape anyway
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NOED is fine =/
If you want to nerf NOED, Nerf Gen Speed, And ToolBox speed. Then we'll talk.
Until then NOED is fine =/
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As I said a million times, I don't care about NOED. I use it in some end game builds. There is a problem where NOED becomes a crutch for bad or toxic killers. When you have a face camping killer, the agreed cure is gen rush, but NOED kicks in and rewards the killer with extra kills. If you take time to bone hunt it rewards the bully with extra kills.
Anyone being honest with themselves knows most hardcore campers are merely trying to grief and bully players. I think NOED only enables them more, which I find regrettable. Tying a hook minimum to NOED with a guaranteed spawn of the hex totem actually strengthens the perk while handicapping griefers.
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Can we nerf a toxic survivor perk into the ground, before we go after another toxic killer perk, please? Maybe one that has a much higher usage number, than NOED? Y'all just got the perk that made matches last more than 10 seconds taken away, and now you're coming for the perk that Killers need if the game takes less than 10 seconds. Get out of my face with this garbage.
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THE CRYING NEVER STOPS. noed is basically the only counter left to hardcore gen rushing, so that console players can play killers besides Fred's and billy, thats why everyone is using it now that ruins been nerfed. Do totems and stop crying. If they do to noed what they did to ruin I'm out, I'm sure your survivor whiny baby queue times will double and your little bully session will be out of business in months.
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Noed HAS been nerfed into the ground.
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If your problem was with crutch or bad killers than you wouldn’t be asking for a nerf to NoEd, you’d be asking the Devs to hurry the hell up with their ranking and matchmaking overhaul.
Camping and Tunneling killers wouldn’t be matched up with you since they wouldn’t rank up. Instead you’d be matched up against players of similar levels.
Besides, just like NoEd, tunneling and camping have their counters, you just have to pick which counters you’re willing to bring in to the match.
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There will be no compromises before there is compromise in gen speed. That is problem n1 now.
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BubbaPls
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I think a lot of you are completely missing my point.
I'm talking about if noed did get a nerf (which is very likely in my opinion) then what would be a nerf which you would find acceptable.
You can't pretend noed is untouchable because it is the one killer perk Survivors hate most.
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do totems.
why should we nerf a killer perk that is 100% reliant on survivors to ever activate?
asking for a NOED nerf is basically the definition of "im too lazy to do something against this, so ill just ask the devs to do the work for me"
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OR...assume there’s noed and cleanse the damn totems?
Or don’t open the door yet, find noed, destroy it, unhook the poor soul who got downed and all escape?
Or a little less altruistic, leave the poor soul who got downed and leave. 3 escaping beats 4 dead?
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Anyone saying that NOED needs to be nerfed (like adding cooldown or requiring tokens) is bad at the game and lazy to boot. Maybe if you learn to play better and cleanse totems it won't be a problem.
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When I first read your comment it started to annoy me but then I read your solutions and mate you have got the right idea!
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Sorry though N.O.E.D is just fine it's the only perk that a killer can use for gen rushing an if u Nerf that it will be all over for new killers suvivers still escape with that perk the perks that should be Needed is Prove Thyself an toolboxes
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NOED is easily countered by taking out totems. I'm rank 4 survivor btw. As your walking around the map, take out every totem you see. That will eliminate NOED. The only change I would make to NOED would be to put it back the way it was in the beginning where only tier 3 was instadown.
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"And that is one of the fundamental flaws in the perk that needs reworking. It is getting you 1 hit downs for doing nothing."
sweetheart that's an opinion, not a fact. it isn't anything. imo i don't think that's a fundamental flaw. i agree with GHOSTfaceP3 noed is fine. yeah i think it's a cheap way to get kills but that doesn't mean there are" fundamental flaws"
"They feel shame because even they know they are getting the kills undeserved and for doing nothing. They can tell it feels cheap. They feel shame in using it for the exact same reason the survivors hate it. Yet now you are suggesting a change that literally ignores the reason both sides dislike it entirely. Your change isn't addressing the problem."
like i said, your so called "problem" is an opinion not a fact so maybe for the next time instead of conducting a discussion based on assumptions and opinions conduct it based on facts ;)
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
Imagine a perk needing to be nerfEd bc some entitled brats are too lazy to counter by simply cleansing a totem lol. The irony of calling people trash for using a perk that is so easy to counter.
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Or... Just break totems?
Points alone make the time to break a totem worth it. Combine that with Inner Strength being a rather good perk to run, there is almost no drawback to cleansing totems now that gens are easier to do with how Ruin has been changed.
There is no reason to change the perk other than the number of survivors who are now complaining about the number of killers running it since the Ruin changes.
Crazy how it went from Ruin being complained about being used a lot to NOED being complained about after people were able to do gens. 🤔
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Yes. If DS is this big of a problem for you, this is your solution until or unless they come out with a new perk that counters it.
There are a few perks with no 'work around' (thanataphobia, coulrophobia, corrupt intervention, whispers, bamboozle which is grossly under used imo, etc) and will probably be more to come as more perks get added, there will be more counters and synergies.
You cannot avoid having to work through certain perks.
It is that simple.
'What is my nemesis?' If you answered NOED, you should be bringing totem finding perks and/or a map and be focusing on finding totems from the get-go. The way totem spawns are now, they are not hard to find on most maps and the ones where they are? Perks for that. Map for that.
There's only five of them and the time spent cleansing them is worth knowing by end game, if you reach it, you won't have to worry about it and you've ultimately screwed the killer out of one of their four perks (if they have it, if they didn't, at least you know they definitely don't now). It's a high risk, high reward kind of perk.
The only change I could see being even remotely necessary is removing the speed buff, but even then if you do all the totems you don't have to worry about it anyway.
Your priorities should be based on what you have the most trouble against in general.
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Christ survivors are whiney. At what point will you stop blaming killer and their fleeting strengths and capabilities and just get better? You can end a game in 4 minutes if the person the killer is chasing actually has a brain and can loop for longer than 30 seconds. And if your in high ranks than that strong looping survivor will be the whole team. And while killer is forced to chase the rabbit to get progress twords killing the team, every other survivor is on a gen hitting great skill checks back to back with a toolbox and new parts. The worst part is the devs are completely on the survivors side. If noed gets nerf like ruin did I guarantee that dead by daylight will lose a vast majority of killer players and the que times are gonna get twice as long. And believe it or not in not a killer main I'm a p3 ash with a p1 trapper and p1 huntress and most killer and survivor perks unlocked. Survivors need to grow up. If you dont like noed then find the totems. If its to hard for you to gind the totems bring a map. Their is not one situation in this game that survivor cant get out of with skill and good choices of add-ons and knowledge of maps and loops.
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I dont think you get that killer cant protect gens. Sounds like someone started of the survivor side of the archive tree. Play some of the killer missions at around rank 10. At that point the game says your good enough and will toss you to people around rank 9-3. But maybe some times the game Will give to a big middle finger in the shape of rank 1 ooo with Sprint burst, ds, and adrenaline with a Insta heal on hand. If you think noed is broken go ahead and try using it on killer against people with actual brains.
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Survivor main & omg yes.
I would die every time that last gen popped to see 3 more gens light up - BUT it would still be way more fair than a ######### killer camping the only hook they've managed to get the entire game & turning it into a 3/4k.
At that point it's still making killers work for their kills, but it also encourages survivors to do alternative objectives & thus slowing gen progress, or if survivors don't do totems, it punishes them & still slows gen progress.
I'd say this is the fairest "compromise" I've read on this thread yet. Well put. Bravo.
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& All this talk on nerfing BT. I know some toxic survivors run it to farm people off the hook before you can leave, but that is just as bad for survivors. I HATE when I get unhooked in front of the killer, right after being hooked. Like PLEASE give this guy some time to move away from my hook, maybe find/chase someone else. No one likes being farmed.
The best thing a survivor can do is let them hang for at least half their first phase, especially with the new ruin. We need to stay on gens more now, at least til ruin's taken out. The rest of us run borrowed when we're getting a ton of douchey camping a-holes.
So if you want BT nerfed, talk to your less talented counterparts about being more active in the game than babysitting hooks, because that's what BT is there for. They make perks not just to complicate the game, but to counter frustrating scenarios as well- so the game can be ENJOYABLE. & Being as the game is FOURvONE, yeah you bet the survivors voices are heard. There's 4 of them to every one of you. 💯
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Replace people with survivors.
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I truly hate going against noed but honestly if dont do dull totems and just hold m1 on generators the whole game thts your fault. Its not like you cant counter this perk, its not invincible. All totems spawn near gens.
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I still think people are discussing whether noed deserves to be nerfed which is not what this thread was about.
This thread is about noed or any perk which has a lot of scrutiny and anger directed at, whether how much is too much of a nerf to noed In particular.
Some people think just removing the speed boost is too much others think removing the capability to instadown is enough. I personally want to come up with a solution which keeps noed instadown function as is if noed was to get nerfed.
A common nerf to noed is the totem counter being implemented with small game. I think QoL changes will eat away at noed making totems a lot easier to do, end game being less threatening and more counters towards noed being introduced.
I personally think Noed is fine but my opinion is nothing compared to the ones who scream at the top of their lungs who want the perk deleted.
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Cleanse the damn totems and there is no perk. Omfg
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Seriously. Do bones.
As someone else pointed out, it's a useless perks until certain retirements are met. Requirements that are totally in the hands of the survivors! And they want it nerfed so they can be lazy and not do bones, because it takes precious 14 seconds away from working on a generator.. Really?
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As survivor, my prefered item is a map, to do totems and finding hatch. And i go after all 5 of them. So, no NOED in the end. I deserved it.
And when i cant do that, NOED adds an extra tension and excitement in the end. "Does the killer have NOED? OMG! I must have extra care and go for the escape, or else find the totem before going to a hook rescue in EGC if its confirmed." Or just escape, wich is another counter to NOED.
I dont wanna a heads up that a NOED is on. Hit me or someone else and them we know. Nice. Fearsome.
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As killer, I use NOED only when I want a special end game or if I dont have any perk that fits my play style, wich is not letting the gens be done and finding survivors. Plus the "special perk for each killers power".
If I use it, and it was on, im being rewarded for survivors mistake or limitation. And thats valid. The need for a "skillfull" playing to activate a end game totem perk makes no sense...
There is no reward for doing nothing, its a perk, not an "un-perk". Sometimes you can get into one or two chases and all gens are done and you made no mistakes as killer, played very well. So you must be punished cause of that? No. Anyway, even if didnt play well, the argue stands. So as killer you chose that if the game comes to all gens done, you can get kills more easily, if the survivors dont cleanse totems.
I find very fun when the survivors escapes from my NOED, when I use it. They managed to do that, even with hooked mates. They cleansed the totem in the end, just before a hit to a survivor. Cool! Thats the spirit! There you go. GG.
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So, from both roles, NOED is just fine.
Besides, NOED stands for No One Escapes Death, and not "No One Embraces Death". (Final joke, cleanse totem for no final jokes).
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I disagree with you. Survivor is stressful if you play solo que most of the time and you have 3 other teammates not doing gens, urban evasioning, self caring against sloppy butcher, hiding in lockers, and lasting 4 seconds in a chase.
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Since you have a hard time to understand after 4 pages that Noed is in fact weak, i will just do this:
I play solo,and i just keep ranking up with shirtless David.
Sounds to me like you are somewhere between or in green and brown ranks.Just rank up and say goodbye to those players.But if you do as many misstakes as they do, the rank up just wont happen.You know?
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Just make sure to keep using shirtless David! We like swinging your sexy muscles onto our shoulder.
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Orr the devs delete this trash game already and refund us that'd be great
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So you think the game is trash, and yet decide to come on the forums? Why not find something else to do with your time, if you have that much of it to waste?
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This. Jesus, how hard it is for Survivors to just do damn totems as they come across them? Nooooo, can't have anything that detracts from rushing the gens or playing tag with the killer. Too much thinking involved.
Seriously, just break the totems - problem solved. NOED is fine; it isn't a crutch; it punishes Survivors for not doing totems which -- by Dev accounts IS a secondary objective, just not a required one. The perk shouldn't be nerfed or changed just because Survivor players don't want to have to focus on finding and breaking totems.
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So this.. seriously every thread about noed only needs one answer: "Do bones"
And then they all complain and respond with: "B-b-but mah genrush!"
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