Killers should have *some* stagger effect
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killer stagger is fine, just be mindful of where you are when playing survivor
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Wow, that's an impressive amount of made up crap. You do realize I actually have access to the same lore pages you do, right?
Funny, not a single one of those pages mentions a single thing about the entity altering any of its killers. I don't have any links to the archives, but anybody who has them unlocked in the game can look at whatever listing you're going to pretend implies the entity altered any of its killers. So go ahead and say which memories do.
And allow me to provide the same valid level of proof you did to help establish that Ace is Batman.
Ace Ventura came from the long lost planet of Krypton. Due to a freak accident where he was covered in unnatural chemicals, he was given a special green ring from the guardians of the galaxy that allowed him all the powers needed to turn into a bat at night and help fight crime. While rescuing the world from a mad purple titan hellbent on making humanity pay for the damage they had done to the plantlife, he became known as Batman.
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The entity didn't do any of that. Or are you also going to claim that the entity turned Freddy into a dream demon? Are you going to claim that the entity made Myers an unstoppable stalker? Are you going to claim that the entity made the demogorgon an inhuman monster that travels through an alternate dimension. All the entity did was take survivors and killers from other realms to play an endless game of life and death. What happened to them in their own realms wasn't the entity's doing or BHVR would be have a freaking field day raking in on the cash from the Halloween, Nightmare on Elm Street, and Stranger Thing franchises.
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More killer nerfs ? I vote no to that.
I can't remember the last time I didn't escape... why does everyone need to make Survior so easy ?
I Vote No on staggering a monster ghost or demon from a fall lore wise
What would the nurse stumble on her floating ?
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The % stagger for a killer falling should be applied in the same amount for a survivor as a % chance to trip and fall while in a chase if we're going for realism or some imagined equalizer during chases.
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You keep saying that this isn't supposed to be a gameplay effecting thing and is just a QoL thing to make drops make more sense.
So how about instead of having an actual speed difference that would cause unwanted gameplay problems you could instead:
- Create a visual stagger when the Killer lands with no effect on speed ect
or
- Increase EVERYONE'S stagger by the exact same amount (has gameplay ramifications if the Killer and Survivor take different routes)
Having a Killer stagger with a speed reduction is by definition a gameplay altering change. And if we are making it so small that it doesn't really matter then why would they bother when they could instead put that effort into fixing real problems like buffing underpowered perks?
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Yeah not only do they have zero stagger but they can do some kind of leaping smash attack it’s ridiculous. Chases are supposed to be fun?
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It’s definitely not fine. It’s only fair both have stagger. You can’t make one without the other When the killer already has a speed advantage. Besides most of these killers are humans too!
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No, but they shouldn’t have zero stagger and be able to hit you too! That’s broken and if you don’t see that you might not know what balance is either
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The Entity took super powered killers like Doctor, Oni, and Wraith, but there's absolutely no indication it gave power to mere humans. Are you going to claim there's anything to support that theory in the lore? Are you going to claim that normal humans can hurt people in dreams while being invincible? Normal humans can survive immolation and point blank explosions? Normal humans can shrug off impalement?
Keep in mind, those NORMAL HUMANS-turned Killers are supposed to be from "the real world", so to speak; OUR world. Freddy was a normal human who died in a boiler room, for example.
The only reason to claim that entity has to be altering killers is to cling to your false statement that "the Entitle altered the killers".
It doesn't. You're wrong. Deal with it.
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Survivors get a perk to counter falling once in a while already, and maps like Haddonfield would be effectively obsolete if you nerfed killers capacity to chase off of high ledges. It's already a tough enough map when you find an SWF team offering Haddonfield and all rolling balanced landing.
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So if the roles are balanced enough at this point or the game is already petty balance right now. Why would they need to change something? Since the term balance enough or already petty balance, makes it sound like things are fine as is. That changing it would be a bad idea. It doesn't like sound adding this idea in is good at all. That and you say this idea is for balance, when here the thing. It's not been tested at all. So we have no idea how this will effect things, outside of making balance landing stronger. Making the idea oh hey you are only against it due to being bad killers, sounds questionable, when there is a lack of date. Many people like to have date and how this would effect things in reality and not just on paper. Since many ideas sound great on paper but turn out to be awful in reality. That and this idea would not effect nurse at all. Also Oni can't use Demon Strike when falling down, so it sort of already exist for his power. That and your using red ranks to favor your point, you are aware even the devs have stated, rank is not a matter of skill but rather mere how much you play?
Which also this idea would buff balance landing, by allowing a balance landing user to gain more distance from a killer, due to the killer suffering from slow down. Which would once again harm slower killers the most. That and the idea seems to be oh survivors suffer from this, so killers also must. Killers have to hunt down and hook each survivor three times, making their role different from survivors. Even if we ignore that, killers don't currently have any perk that negate this down side. While survivors not only has a perk that negates this downside but gain a speed boost, allowing them to cover great distance. So if we go with one side suffers from it why not the other? Well where the perk for killers to negate this downside and gain a benefit from it? Could we get a change to a existing perk or a brand new one, to help killers overcome this down side like survivors?
That and since you make it out to seem to be a very minor thing, when you say you are not wanting to make a massive change, which lead me to, why should we focus on this over something like fixing ghostface's reveal, which has a far bigger effect on gameplay for both ghostface and the survivors?
If the issue is indeed a big deal or one that must be dealt with, another way to take care of the op issue, would be with better map design or simply reducing the negative effect survivors suffer from when falling. Since we could always reduce the sagger time for survivor by 0.5 seconds, which would lead to the same effect, if a survivor is not using balance landing. Since the survivor gets back up on their feet faster.
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Fine we can do that, but I want to be able to quick vault windows like you do then.
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For the sake of realism survivors should move slower when they are injured and being injured should be like deep wound and you shouldn't be able to mend yourself if you don't have a med kit and you aren't playing Adam or Claudette.
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Well, there are obviously some things they can tweak here and there. I'm just saying that I don't think it's a very bad idea, and something that's rather harmless to implement, especially since BL was nerfed.
And I'm aware that there are many things that need to be fixed in the game! You can point out things that you would like or not like to happen while still being aware that there are bugs that need fixing, or things that need balancing. I mean, this is a general discussions thread.... 😏
I do like that idea though, reducing stagger time for Survivors would be fine as well. Although I'm just thinking of adding a slight stagger to Killers in terms of it making a little more sense.... but, then again, there's not much in this game that makes sense anyway!
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Fair enough.
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I have a great idea, how about we give survivors weapons to down the killer as well, after all is isnt fair that they can hit me and I cant hit back q_q
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Oh dear you're thick.
These killers were human. Now they're not human. Either there's some other deity out there changing them or- shock horror, I know- it was the Entity.
Now I can see you've got access to the lore (very good you can use the Internet) so you can see, with your own eyes, that these killers were human. The Trapper was a man, wraith was an immigrant worker, hag was a young girl, etc etc. How do these people go from humans to actual, literal monsters, if there's no Entity involvement.
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The sad part is you actually answered your own question but you're just too close minded to realize it. YES, there is other things out there that can turn humans inhuman. That's completely obvious by Freddy, Ash, and Myers. Actually, saying there's other things out there that can turn humans inhuman might be a bit inaccurate cause there's currently no account anywhere in the lore of the entity itself turning any humans into monsters. The lore we've been given about the entity is that it collects survivors and killers for it's endless game of life and death so it can feed off the hope of survivors. The closest thing we have to it altering anybody is the pustels from the Halloween events that come from the entity that Vigo or somebody used to inject into the monsters and turn them into orange puss dripping messes.
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Nurse, hag, spirit, wraith, plague and oni are all supernatural. Arguably they all are, but I'll leave it that.
Explain to me how a levitating nurse with a bag over her head, a floating disembodies corpse with a magical sword, the zombie of a junkyard wrecker, a mummified millennia old dark priestess, and a resurrected demonic samurai are human.
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No, they all got altered by the entity. They all underwent torture untill they did the Entity's bidding. Do you really think that Wraith looked like he did before he got snatched by the entity? It's well known lore that the Entity will torture and punish killers into doing the Entity's bidding. The only seemingly exceptions to the (physical) torture, are the licenced killers, but lets be honest here, their style of hunting survivors already match the views of the entity.
As for survivors, in the realm, they are literally immortal. They get constantly revived. You really gonna claim that there is no alteration there? You really wanna go claim the survivors were already immortal?
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Yeah, but are you really gonna compare 5% killer stagger to 75% survivor stagger reduction? It would be a slight buff to haddonfield being a survivor sided map. I dont really see 5% impacting haddonfield that much.
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Honestly, yes. If a survivor decides to vault to prevent a killer from kicking a pallet while the killer already started kicking the pallet, they should break the pallet instantly, drop on the floor and be stuck in an animation picking themselves up, aka getting a stun.
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Just my two cents. You say that killers should be staggered like survivors. Michael Myers in the original Halloween was shot five times and fell backwards out of a two-story window landing on his back only to get up and be gone before they had time to cross the bedroom and look down to see if he was dead.
Jason has been shot, beheaded, stabbed, blown up, lit on fire, he's still killing.
Survivors can wiggle out of someone like leatherface's grasp despite the fact that he's a towering monstrosity with unearthly strength in the movies.
Look at the spirit. How do you stun an etheral ghost with a 5 lb wood pallet?
These killers are not supposed to be on equal footing with the survivors they're hunting. If that was the case the original Halloween would have been an 8 second movie. The movie would have ended the moment she hit him with the car outside of the asylum.
So I understand your frustration, but these are other worldly unstoppable monsters from movies we all love. They absolutely should not be treated as your basic human being.
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Past year has only been killer buffs, practically no nerfs. Except for Ruin. Technically legion got nerfed, but his power was gamebreaking with no counterplay. Once there is no counterplay, yeah, killers recieve a nerf. There are some killers that are extremely strong for todays meta(I mean, Billy's addons are getting reworked for a reason), but having a vanilla power interrupting mechanic when there should be some interruption, allows to make those killers slightly weaker without making them too weak. As for not escaping, thats not really a problem here. The problem is people who are of a lower skill being able to pull of something incredibly easy with massive rewards without any risk of doing so. I mean, Ebony Mori and Skeleton Key's are literally scrutinized for this. Yet, somehow a rank 20 playing billy with rev speed addons in Hawkins, dropping from 2 stories downing a survivor that's in a hallway and has no objects or pallets to dodge isnt a 0 risk high reward situation? There literally is no way to dodge in those hallways sometimes, because there are no guaranteed objects in that specific hallway. Yet a practically 0 skill player is free to down a high skill player and there is no problems there? Why the bias against keys then? Keys at least require enough skill to finish all 5 generators if you want a 4 man escape. Keys at least require 1 person to be able to find a closed hatch while possibly being chased by a killer. Yet 5% stagger on massive drops if a killer doesnt release his power before hitting the ground is too much? Adding some skill to a brainless situation is too much?
Killer isnt too hard to play either. You literally need an optimal 4 man on comms to be able to destroy a killer who isnt prepared for a 4 man on comms. But if the killer is prepared for an optimal 4 man on comms, they can still get at least a 2k, regardless of a tiny stagger. Yet anything that would be a QoL nowadays is considered a killer nerf? Vacuum windows got fixed so killers cant get a window hit as easily: killer nerf. Mending got altered because it made Legion way too powerful to be a killer in the game: killer nerf. Why is it that everything is a killer nerf? Sometimes things are just not fit for the current meta.
And yes, there are other things that need some altering. Some haddonfield houses should have a balcony that cannot be vaulted instead of a flat roof you can drop off anywhere, with a breakable door ofcourse. Meaning it essentially is a deathtrap as you can block the window with bamboozle or simply bodyblock it.
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Got bamboozle doing that for you. I mean, the counter argument is balanced landing existing, well, bamboozle reduces the vault speed AND blocks the window from being reused without the survivor even knowing untill its too late.
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Oh if we're gonna go with ultra realism: Bubba and Billy should need to refill their chainsaws because it empties after revving it so much. Doctor should recharge his static charge at one point since electricity doesnt last forever. Destroying hooks should be permanent again. The gate should open instantly once the switch is flipped. Survivors should be able to rebuild pallets from the broken pieces. Or make a wooden spike and kill the killer with it.
If you gonna apply ultra realism counter argument to a tiny, fairly insignificant change that wont impact the game as much as you'd think, dont bother replying.
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If you were to take away the speed advantage it would be literally impossible for 90% of the killers to catch a survivor. The killer should have advantages in the chase. The survivors also have their own set of advantages with pallets and fast vaults. It would be ridiculous if I recommend for killers to be able to fast vault wouldn’t it?
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Correct, however, these survivors are able to fix generators without ever having learned to do so. As for staggering and slowing down. Yeah, the killers were slowed down and staggered. When Myers was shot, he was slowed down. Not stopped, but slowed down.
There are a lot of other things in this game that need some changing, like an easy haddonfield nerf would simply turn 1 or 2 of the flat roofs into balconies with only 1 entrance. There should be more rooms that are small enough to tank a hit and escape a killer, but once injured, a death trap. You already have the Saloon room with 3 breakable doorways and 1 window, that is essentially a death trap. We need more rooms like that. We'd need large wooden crates that would essentially qualify for killer pallets, that a killer could quickly push/kick into a doorway/in front of a window that takes time for survivors to break down, making a doorway and/or window inaccesible for a loop unless actively taken down(aka, giving survivors an objective other than generators). There is an easy solution to shutting down godloops to a point where survivors actually have to spend time earning back the loop. Giving killers 2 possible ways of breaking a strong loop prematurely(breaking doors and kicking crates) without costing too much preptime. Let alone that the game needs a lot more unsafe pallets in deadzones. But just because that all is needed on killer-side, doesnt mean there isnt anything on killer-side that is particularly strong that might need a tiny bit of a nerf in today's meta.
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"Well where the perk for killers to negate this downside and gain a benefit from it?"
Well, BL wasnt introduced untill after the stagger was added in. And I agree, there should be a perk that does that if it were to be implemented.
"Since we could always reduce the sagger time for survivor by 0.5 seconds, which would lead to the same effect, if a survivor is not using balance landing. Since the survivor gets back up on their feet faster."
Not exactly, giving the killer stagger would impact Killer abilities and carrying, which in some cases is beneficial to the game, because it can give Billy and Huntress a necessary nerf that is small enough without truly impacting the strength of their kits, it would simply add a weakness, let alone that going for the basement while there is a hook nearby, which is easy to do if you drop from the stairs, would actually have a bit of risk when there otherwise is none(I mean, going across the map for the basement is a risk, but im talking about when you're easily within normal wiggle range). Reducing survivor stagger doesnt solve any of that. The stagger isnt meant to impact the chase much, which is why i've been advocating a tiny impact. The stagger is meant so killers would be forced to release their ability before touching the ground. While it could also be used to help make weaker killer stronger without making them too strong(bubba could easily be "rooted" on the ground and then charge the chainsaw faster with a larger speed for a short time, making you actually want him to stagger mid-chase).
Point being, it would make otherwise super easy downs with billy and huntress a bit harder to pull off, while allowing to improve killer gameplay in general.
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I feel like we will just have to respectfully agree to disagree. I mean you want killers to get slowed down from falling when there's already teamwork, and flashlights, and tool boxes, and looping, and pallets, and decisive strike, and med kits working against that one killer.
And it's not like that other game we won't mention by name Why you have to find car keys and a gas tank and a battery, we run up to a generator and hold R1. I feel like this is probably someone who enjoys playing killer talking to someone who enjoys playing survivor so of course you and I see different sides of the same coin. I just, I don't know man. I feel like killers already have enough stacked against them. I mean even being hit by a killer right? The killer has to stop for a minute and shake his weapon off while at the same time whoever gets hit bolts forward with a speed boost. And you know, I'm kind of a new player I haven't been playing as long as likely yourself, other folks. maybe I'll feel differently 200 hours from now or something. But it feels like people are asking for another way to make 3 minute games 2 minutes and 30 seconds instead.
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Bamboozle is a perk, yknow.
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Fast vault, yes, because their vaulting speed is already the same regardless of the angle, while survivors need a straight path for 2 meters to succesfully fast vault. However, the argument can be made that killer base vaulting speeds should be a bit lower. Which I can get behind. I mean, if we're giving BL technically a buff, then we can also give Bamboozle technically a buff.
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Killers effectively do have a stagger. They lose momentum, just like the hag does with her traps.
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Even with bamboozle the vaulting speed is still slow. Imo this whole thread is dumb, killers lose momentum when they vault/drop, that is effectively their stagger.
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"when there's already teamwork, and flashlights, and tool boxes, and looping, and pallets, and decisive strike, and med kits working against that one killer."
This only truly works when randoms just click well together or when there is a 4-man SWF. Using that as a basis, I might aswell start using people like Otz who got a 4k using Bubba and the speedlimiter addon to say that Bubba is fine without an instadown.
"I feel like this is probably someone who enjoys playing killer talking to someone who enjoys playing survivor so of course you and I see different sides of the same coin."
Nah, I play both, red ranks consistently aswell. And I dont see any real downside in my average killer games. Yes, I'd be destroyed slightly easier vs optimal SWF, but optimal SWF is NOT the standard. I'd still easily get a 2-3k in my average game. Hell, I've had games where I played killer, went to the bathroom to pee mid game and still ended up getting a 4k.
"I mean even being hit by a killer right? The killer has to stop for a minute and shake his weapon off while at the same time whoever gets hit bolts forward with a speed boost."
The killer animation isnt that long and the speedboost is only big enough to make it to the nearest structure before the killer catches up. And then you have to hope 1. pallets spawned there and 2. no one wasted said pallet before you arrived there. I've had plenty of games where I ran up to a structure, expecting there to be a pallet since pallet spawns in other structures were low and still not have a pallet there, meaning the speedboost I gained from the hit was voided by RNG ######### me over. So I was forced to use an unsafe window instead and hope the killer didnt know there was no pallet. Let alone the amount of times where I was the second person being chased and ALL the strong pallets were already broken. The speedboost gained from tanking a hit while the killer moves at 20% speed while cleaning his weapon isnt that much of a downside. Let alone that there are plenty of ways to force survivors to either ignore their teammate, guaranteeing you a kill, or speed up the gen fixing.
"But it feels like people are asking for another way to make 3 minute games 2 minutes and 30 seconds instead."
Hypothetically, the fastest game is 3 minutes. Assuming the killer does not patrol any gens, 3 survivors bringing a toolbox with BNP and 1 bringing a key, 2 people having prove thyself, everyone running no mither, resilience and spinechill while the killer looks at all survivors at the same time, every survivor knows where all the generators are from the beginning, do a 1/1/1/1 split on the first 4 generators and it being a relatively small map and the hatch spawning directly next to the final gen, also happening to be a 4 man gen, while survivors do a key escape.
The average game in reality, is about 10 minutes long. I've even had games that lasted nearly 20 minutes simply because the killer set up a 3 gen from the moment the game started and was essentially waiting for survivors to sacrifice themselves in favor of doing gens. There are many ways a killer can slow down the game. Chasing someone does not slow down match time. Chasing someone allows 3 people who are not being chased to do gens instead. Chasing someone for 5 gens is a mistake you made. Sometimes you just need to admit defeat and know someone is gonna outplay for 5 minutes, and if they can outplay you for 5 minutes, they can outplay you for 5 gens. Thinking a 5% stagger would impact the game that much is simply not true. Either you already were gonna catch a person, or you werent. There is less than 1% of players that would escape your grasp by that 5% stagger, unless you really use the lack of stagger in your advantage(revving billy, charging huntress, for example). Which is even less of a playerbase.
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False, they do not lose momentum. Window vaulting does stop momentum, but you can also start momentum mid-air. Its how skilled survivors dodge beartraps in the funnel drop in The Game. Killers can do the same. Hag only loses momentum with her trap because its a teleport.
And yeah, even with bamboozle its slower than survivors, just like how balanced landing still gives you a stagger thats still infinitely larger than the killer.
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I didn't mean it completely stopped you, but you do get slowed down. In any case, the problem here isn't that killer needs a stagger, it's just that survs either are running to a bad area, or are waiting too long before running away without BL.
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If the change is that small then why even bother adding it
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Lots of changes have been small. OoO and Sole Survivor got a small change to essentially not be that different in practice. Skillchecks when using Selfcare have been decreased with 2.5%, which is a very small change. Brutal Strenght applying to generators was also a very small and practically insignificant change, Bloodhound slightly increased the brightness of bloodstains, even though bloodstains arent that hard to trace in the first place.
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The point is they WERE human until they became this. Literally that's their ENTIRE lore is that they WERE a human but after either a tragedy or them going on a murder spree (hi nurse) they became a monster with supernatural ability.
Oh my god.
It's clear you won't change because you don't have a clear understanding of implicit information but oh well.
Freddy, Michael, Ash- they're all liscened and come from a different universe. We know the Entity can reach across all of these universes.
What we also know though, is that all non-liscened characters were supposed to be from OUR world, the ones without floating spirits and evil people made of wood who go invisible (funnily enough).
Please, I beg of you, find me an example of a real life The Nurse or a The Wraith, or a The Spirit, or anyone really.
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Just because they fixed a bug doesn't mean it was a killer buff
The nerfed leg to useless yeah and I'm not saying he didn't need it. all the new killers besides oni are weak af and all the perks are trash except maybe 2
What killer buffs at all this year ? Plague got a start pool and trapper can reset traps ?
The great map nerf everyone whines about was infinite loop removal on 2 maps and the great toolbox nerf only made them faster repairs. The great gen nerf was 12 seconds if a 4 stack does it but don't worry the buffed the perk so its negated
But nerf history doesn't matter.
Fact- most killer matches are lost
Fact- survior que is long/killer que instant theres a massive lack of killers of all ranks
Fact-matchmaking is broken because survivors almost always win leading them to open mm to reduce que giving us rainbow ranks if we wanna play at all
So for the health of the game no more killer nerfs, bhvr has driven away enough of the killer population and im tired of waiting 20minutes to play a match as survior just so I can escape in 5 minutes flat
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Doesn't killer have more momentum than a survivor when jumping off a building?
When i play survivor i practically drop straight down while the killer flies in an arc and hits the magical invisible barrier the devs added to nerf billy and demogorgon.
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I can't really predict, but if you take a look what 5% movement speed means in this game, or if you have Freddy slow down all actions by 3% per sleeping survivor or by 2% per sleeping survivor, or what the diffreence is between 10% or 20% faster pallet breaking speed during a chase, and all these "not that much" changes that already happened to the game, then you can at least guess that a "not at all" or 5-10% stagger, and not to a single perk but to ALL drop downs in the game, might actually break the game
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Wow, I can only imagine the kind of self-dellusion required to simultaenously say that the killers are from our world and then say our world doesn't have floating spirits and people make of wood who go invisible. The fact that you can say something so evidently self-contradicting and pretend you're right is amazing in all the wrong ways.
You've been making erroneous claims saying that the lore stats the entity alters killers without providing any evidence. I would have loved to provide direct evidence myself, but the only evidence I can provide that something doesn't exist is to say look at everything and you can see it doesn't exist. Of course you blatantly refuse to do that. However, you finally said something that actually has evidence to contradict it. You're now claiming that all non licensed killers come from the same realm (and for some mad reason claiming they come from the one we exist in), but the tomes imply otherwise:
from The Entity logs Arcus 54
It seems to contain swirls and streams of memories or imprints of beings from multiple terra worlds.
from The Entity logs Arcus 142
At least the Archives affords me a better understanding of the Entity... why it moves from universe to universe, picking victims off and devouring worlds as though at a cosmic buffet.
from The Entity logs Arcus 557
The distinct observation in the specimens chosen by The Entity is that they all come from worlds that have failed to understand the metaphysical relationships between their thoughts and the world they live in.
from Observations logs Arcus 293
In a twisted way I think what I'm admitting is that I'm glad the Entity takes what it wants when it wants from the omniverse
from Revelations logs Arcus 1032
Jumbled experiences of brutal killers and weird rituals of godless brutes from worlds too dark to care.
Btw, it's supposed to be the person claiming something exists that's supposed to be providing evidence rather than the person saying it doesn't exist. But sadly, I'm the one who has actually provided evidence even though it's y'all who keep saying the lore states the entity alters killers but refuse to provide any evidence of it.
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He is basically asking to give killers stagger it's like getting BL passive back if the killer has stagger. Yea no thanks. Killer is already 100× more difficult than survivor. I
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My point was simply that survivors already have plenty of means of escape, and that killers are... Well killers, that shouldn't be on equality with survivors. And for what it's worth as much as I enjoy playing killer I played a lot of survivor last night like four to six hours straight or something doing those mastery challenges. I definitely encountered what it is your referencing more than once. And yes probably about 70% of the time they would assassin's creed drop me. However I also learned that if I dropped out made like I was going to go right and then took a hard hook left they would miss. So it's not impossible to avoid either as it is
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I figured killers don't stagger because they're inhuman, makes sense a fall wouldn't hurt them. Maybe make a survivor perk Dead Weight where it'd cause the killer to stagger if dropping from height with survivor.
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I also pretty much stated it having a higher requirement for triggering in the first place. I mean, BL triggers from 4 steps, so 4 steps is already considered a great height that causes stagger in survivors, I'm more intending on an entire staircase before it starts having minor effects. As for 3% per sleeping survivor, thats kinda different because that lasts the entire time, 3% per survivor means that it impacts up to 10 seconds on solo gens. 20% faster kicking, isnt really impactful enough to make a difference, since there are only a few pallets per map that you want to spend time breaking, but if we're gonna assume people spend time dropping even extremely unsafe pallets, that's still an impact of 0,5 second per pallet. Meaning that you end up saving 5 seconds in chase time. Considering there tend to be 3 very safe pallets per match(on average) that saves you 1,5 seconds on average in a match.
A 5% stagger to everything and it would only work at high drops, which some maps dont even have, it would require 100 high drops per match on average for it to even compare to the pallets. 1000 drops per match on average, for it to match Freddy's slow down, which can be significant enough to be a difference between a 1k and a 4k. Even with old balanced landing I couldnt pull off 1000 drops per match on average as a survivor.
Let alone that the stagger is meant to prevent some killers from instantly using an ability when they touch the floor that allows them to instadown a survivor that cant even move yet or barely had time to move in a situation where they might not have earned an instadown in the first place. A mechanic that was implemented to stop infinites from being a thing is impacting places where no infinites are possible in the first place to be a free kill for some killers without having to plan ahead. Being able to do anything brainlessly and getting a massive reward from it without the opposition making a mistake should not be a gamemechanic. A trapper who brainlessly places a trap will catch survivors who brainlessly wander around. A clown who has a pinky finger bein able to bodyblock while refilling and then instadowning a survivor will have had the survivor having made a mistake. A survivor dropping out of the only window, falling down the only hole to prevent being instadowned by a billy but the billy having bamboozle and being able to fully rev his chainsaw before the survivor can even move, how is that a mistake by any means? At least before the last patch, you could sometimes use a window to cancel out the stagger when being chased by a billy or huntress(and huntress is already strong vs loops) and that was abused towards other killers(cus it was too strong against most killers) but now even that is gone. Adding a killer stagger that would cancel out an unneccesary strength for some killers by cancelling a channeling/charging of an ability(which can also be used in killer favor, example being Freddy's class photo addon) once they touch the ground, without impacting m1 killers too much, if at all.
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3% doesnt last the entire game, it is per sleeping survivor, You almost never have that effect at maximum stacks. Staggering lasts the entire game on every dropdown. You can bet that survivors adapt to recognize the power difference in loops that contain vault drops like they did on Haddonfield. And regarding pallet breaking: it is not about the sum of time for breaking pallets, it is about the mindgaming, to push survivors on the wrong side to make them run into unsafe areas of the map while losing less distance because of faster pallet breaking. If you just kick pallets as soon as they are dropped, the perk is weak.
And the stagger also is irrelevant for the amount of time you lose in sum, it is about if you allow the survivor a single extra loop, causing 5-10 seconds extra chase on EACH loop that allows this extra turn on EVERY survivor that makes use of it, which could easily lead to extra minutes of extra chase depending on the map.
And regarding the "earned downs" and "killers not having a plan": I would say it is the survivors fault when using paths with a dropdown that allow the killer to catch up. It should be common sense that you don't chase over a hill when you don't have BL because you just create a stagger effect. Or if you run into a deadend because you expected a door or window. The same counts for killers, if they try to cut off the survivor and run into a window or deadend, it is their fault. This is just about pathing and map awareness. If survivors get hit because of the stagger effect, it is in the first place bad pathing. And getting caught in a place where there is only 1 dropdown is simply at your risk. You get caught offguard, that is not only the case for stagger, there are a lot critical places you need to be aware of when you want to have a chance in the chase, if the killer finds you there. Ever tried to do a gen injured in the shack with basement and pallet down? You better have sprintburst or Lithe ready, or start running as soon as you hear the TR. This is also part of map awareness
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