Should Spine Chill be nerfed?
For me, the answer is absolutely yes. The amount of information this perk gives you is insane.
Hear the lullaby of Huntress? You'll always know if she's headed towards you.
Wraith, Pig, or Ghostface sneaking up on you? You'll know the moment they start closing in.
Not sure if a Spirit is phasing? Simply look for the perk lighting up to tell where she's looking.
It's basically 2 perks for one. Providing knowledge for both in, and out of chase. Premonition, an otherwise decent perk, is completely outclassed by Spine Chill.
My suggestion is to make Spine Chill only active when inside of a killer's terror radius. Make it only give knowledge inside of a chase and so that perks like Premonition have a chance to be picked.
Comments
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No.
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Nope, spine chill can be played around, if you think someone is there just moonwalk, it also helps people with stealthy killers like wraith, deathslinger,pig and ghostface
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Not sure what the point of trying to include stealth killers is if you're going to have always-on passives like that.
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If you wanna play a stealth killer, learn to look away.
Spine chill is fine
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Your reasoning?
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Can you stalk someone with spine chill though?
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True, you can moonwalk or even crabwalk to try to get the drop on people if you think they're running it. But this only proves my point that the perk is way too strong.
If the killer is forced to adapt their movement just to counter a single perk, (at the cost of potentially missing survivors they don't see), then the perk should be nerfed or at the very least changed.
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I've already gone over why moon/crabwalking already proves that the perk is too strong. But Snitz had a excellent point.
What if you're playing Myers of Ghostface and want to stalk people? Well too bad because the moment you spot them they've already seen you coming and are running out of stalk range.
That's 2 killers heavily countered by a single perk, that has yet more benefits! Spine Chill is undoubtedly too powerful.
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Honestly, I think it should get a slight need. Reduce the distance it activates from 36 to 32.
Still powerful, still useful, just not so powerful as to give you warnings before the average 32m terror radius kicks in.
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Even if they see the icon light up, you as a killer might have some LOS to them, if you think about it it's like enduring + spirit furi, survivors have to play against it .
I just don't think spine chill deserves a nerf, it isn't that good tbh and I was a pig main for a while, there are a few things that you can abuse, like most survivors that have it, won't loop as much unless spine chill + resilience, 6% isn't that much as well.
You can also run tracking perks like whispers if you think you missed someone.
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Spine Chill is perfectly fine the way it is and needs no changes
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There's my point proven again.
Enduring and Spirit Fury is a 2 perk combo. It's powerful, but requires 2 pallets to be broken to activate and survivors can avoid it. Spinechill is a single perk that doesn't need any requirement to activate besides the killer looking in your direction.
I really don't know what survivors you've come across, but good ones know how to best abuse the knowledge it gives you and erase the word "Stealth" from any game. Particularly on open maps.
And running a perk to counter another perk that can only be countered by not looking where you're going is only further proof that Spinechill is just way too powerful on its own.
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Can you explain why?
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LMAO
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I think it's absolutely fine on in-door maps. Stealthy killers essentially otherwise get free hits.
Spine chill is the kind of perk that would never be created nowadays. It's got a huge 36 meter range and other benefits to it such as faster vaulting speed. But I really don't know if I'd go as far as to nerf it.
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I guess Spine Chill is the latest NERF THIS PERK fad. What is this like the third topic about it in the past couple days?
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Lmao just moonwalk to every gen ya ok bud.
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Wow......Spine Chill.
WOW.
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I don't think it's powerful as you make it out to be, let's say that you are playing Michael against 4 spine chill users, survivors can hear him easy now even without a TR, with spine chill they just know the killer is looking at them, it doesn't give the exact location, I don't know what kind of godly survivors you are playing against but from my 2k hours of experience I can say that there are a few things you can do to play against spine chill, you can hear ghostface as well, and for deathslinger is a life saver considering his chase music starts when he already hits you, it's a good counter (I hate deathslinger both using him and playing against him).
I know the best way to get out of T1 Myers is to get close and stalk but it's not like that with ghostface.
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Yes. Stealthy killers have an advantage on indoor maps. But that is literally how they're designed: get easy first hits but have no ability to easily down. Why should a single perk shut down several killer's main advantage?
I agree that Spinechill wouldn't be created nowadays. Only because the dev team seem to have thrown the idea of making decent perks completely out the window for survivors and killer alike.
But I simply don't understand why you would not nerf it. It has far more benefits than any other information perk in the game. It is the best information perk in the game. Its mere existence makes otherwise ok perks terrible in comparison. It really deserves a nerf.
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Because the balance of dbd is clearly perfect and any attempt to change something is just a fad.
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Lmao then you are also here to ask for spine chill nerfs, you don't need to moonwalk to every gen, you can also crab walk just like how the op said, you can see (if you have eyes) if crows fly away, you can hear survivors breath as well if they are there
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Killers have tons of perks to track Survivors. Spine Chill just gives Survivors some advance notice to maybe get a head start or waste my time by hiding.
If I saw a generator light up with Discordance and no one's on it when I get there, I'm not going to leave. I'm going to check those bushes and rocks for the Claudette with Spine Chill and find her. 36m advance notice isn't enough to leave an area without scratch marks, the Killer should still be able to find you if they're somewhat sentient
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I would not be opposed to a spine chill nerf.
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I heavily disagree. You mistake me saying that Spinechill can give away the killer's exact location. That's not how good survivors use it. Let me give you an example:
A Survivor is repairing the shack gen and SC lights up. They hear no terror radius but know the killer is coming, but they obviously don't know where. They position themselves right next to the outer shack wall so no matter what angle the killer uses they'll be seen and safely avoided.
Even if the survivor is in a bad position, simply knowing that the killer is coming for you is often enough to save you from taking a hit if you're working on an unsafe gen.
I don't know why you mentioned being able to hear certain killers well. I never mentioned that. And yes, Spinechill is a good choice against M&A Deathslinger, and every stealth killer in the game, and every killer in the game. It's just too good.
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Wow. What a comment.
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No
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I'll leave it to your opinion because everyone has theirs, I just don't believe it's as strong as you make it out to be.
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I mean even AS a stealth killer Spine Chill really isn't bad. Its a nuisence but not so much of one that it NEEDS to be nerfed. I don't even notice when its in play I just play normally and never I never seem to actually lose because of spine chill rather I get a toxic team with flashlights or something like that.
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There is not a single killer perk that is comparable to Spinechill in terms of power level. Name one, if you can.
Yes, it gives survivors a head start. Contrary to popular, (and objectively incorrect), belief, hiding is not a waste of time since every moment the killer is searching for someone is a moment that they aren't chasing them. Effectively giving your team more time to do gens. And guess what Spinechill helps with?
If you get a gen with progress and start searching for the survivors then Spinechill has already done it's job. Instead of starting a chase the moment you get to a gen you're wasting time searching for the survivors.
As for 36 meters not enough time to leave without scratch marks, I'll say it again, it's not about completely evading the killer. It's about making them waste time not chasing people and instead looking around. But even so, on certain maps the notification is often enough to get away scot free.
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I watched the intro cinematic for the first time in forever the other day - what a cool game that looked like to play.
This addiction to hand-holding safety (an even bigger terror radius that tells you when you're in actual super danger and not just maybe super danger, for crying out loud) when you could accomplish the same thing by... looking around with your 3rd person freaking camera, lol, is what makes survivor a bore to play and killer frustrating.
Yeah, sometimes a gen is next to a LOS block which could potentially make you nervous if you're inside the killer's TR. Shouldn't you be nervous? No? I've got to run a killer whose kit is designed around being stealthy literally backwards across the map cause.. why now?
It's cool if it's got some sort of trigger condition - on a sacrifice or a hook you have 30 seconds or so of enhanced terror. But an always-on passive is just dumb.
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If you like I can directly compare every other survivor knowledge perk to Spinechill.
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I'm a Rank 1 Killer. The only thing Spine Chill does is waste my time slightly and prevent gens grabs when I play Pig and Ghost Face.
If one of my perks tells me a Survivor is there, I'm going to find them. Like I know the maps and geometry too well to spend more than 10-15 seconds without finding them. (immersing doesn't even save them time either because when I find them I get a free hit)
It's a good perk for Survivors to have awareness to get to safe looping positions. And in the vault speed build with Resilience it can help in chase, but its not overpowered. At least not against halfway decent Killers that are sentient
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As killer, it's inherently hardly to tell how much of an effect Spinchill has. Even harder to tell if the survivors have it. But it does too many things for a single perk slot:
- Gives you knowledge of the killer approaching you, effectively countering every stealth killer in the game.
- Gives you knowledge while in a chase with the killer, helping to better guess their mind games and avoid a hit.
- Increases your vaulting speed. Although the amount seems small, combine it with Resilience and windows are much more powerful.
- Gives you more spellchecks. This is the weakest of the benefits, but still another in the list.
There's no reason why a perk should have this many upsides with no requirement.
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I mean it only gives you a lot more skillchecks if the killer is staring at you the entire time and number one on that list doesn't counter every stealth killer. A good stealth killer isn't bothered by spine chill.
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Spine Chill has a learning curve and requires a lot of active attention to get maximum benefit from it. It can be played around with moonwalking etc., and it's nearly useless on maps like Hawkins and The Game.
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Rank have never been more meaningless than today. And as I said before, it's difficult to properly assess how much Spinechill affects the game from a killer POV.
I've already been over this, but the simply knowing that the killer is coming will extend the amount of time the killer takes to down the survivor. Because the moment Spinechill lights up any good survivor will book it to the nearest safe area, wasting more of your time even if you find them.
I heavily disagree that a perk that gives survivors free knowledge and, often a head start in every chase, along with added knowledge in every chase, is well designed. Especially since it also boosts your vaulting speed, yet another bonus with no drawback. It does too many things for 1 perk.
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I agree with a nerf, but imo it just needs to take of the +speed and just tell when the killer is looking in your direction
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Unless of course you're Myers and Ghostface. Which have powers tied directly to looking at survivors. Even ignoring that, you can't argue that Spinechill is anything but the best perk in the game to counter stealth.
The last point is mainly where you're trying to rush a gen/heal and the killer is coming to you. That extra % can make or break at times.
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I mean the only stealth killer I play is GF and most of the time playing him you dont wanna stalk you just wanna rush in and hit while you're stealthed and still SC doesn't bother me all that much. I can count on both hands how many times spine chill has ruined a hit and thats an estimated 7.
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I agree. It has a big learning curve. But when mastered it's one of the best perks in the entire game.
I've already made my counter point to moon/crabwalking, so I'll make it again. If a single perk forces a killer to change their movement, (and potentially miss survivors they don't see), then it's too powerful on its own.
You last point is flat out wrong.
Spinchill. Being nearly useless on indoor maps. That is the opposite of true.
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Let's see what Spine Chill can do for someone.
Spine Chill can notify the user when the killer is coming towards them, but not the exact direction. Also, Spine Chill can give a slight bonus in action speed including repair, healing, sabotage, unhooking, vaulting, cleansing, exit gate opening, and chest search speeds by 2%/4%/6% for each tier (thank you dbd wiki). Also, an experienced player can make good use of the extra chance for skill checks to hit great skill checks more frequently, making gens get completed slightly faster. Spine Chill can also counter stealth killers depending on what the killer does.
However, Spine Chill still has its drawbacks.
Spine Chill is able to be completely countered if the killer does not look at the survivor. One way to do this is if you're making your way towards a generator where you suspect survivors are working. Try to estimate when you are about 40 meters away from the survivor repairing and begin to look slightly away from the generator's aura while at the same time, keep making your way towards the generator. Stealth killers will have the easiest time doing this due to their lower terror radius and in some cases, their lower profiles (Pig and Ghostface). This counter can still work even if the killer you're playing has a regular terror radius. For this example, let's say you're in the end game collapse and a survivor with Spine Chill is halfway done with opening the gate. You're about 32 meters away from them and you have two options: You can either look directly at the survivor opening the gate or look away. Looking at the survivor might end up giving them that little boost from Spine Chill they needed to end up escaping, giving them the escape while looking slightly away from them can deny them the escape. It's these little things that can make the difference in a game.
To answer your question, while I believe Spine Chill is a relatively strong and versatile perk, I haven't noticed anything too powerful about Spine Chill that would require it to be nerfed.
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I've already said it already, (which seems to be a running theme in this thread), but it's very difficult to judge how much of an effect Spinechill has on a game when you're killer. You can never know exactly when the survivor started moving after the perk lit up. You've probably missed a great deal of hits, if not complete chases, because of the perk.
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Well if its so little of an effect that I still get 2-3ks every time I play GF and I and many others don't notice it whats the problem?
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My main point for why it should be nerfed is that no other survivor knowledge perk offers the amount of benefits that Spinechill does.
I've already said my counter argument for this, but I'll say it again, making the killer have to actively look away from the survivors they're supposed to be hunting is too much of an effect just to counter a single perk.
Not only do you risk not seeing survivors you otherwise would have seen by moon/crab walking around the map, but you physically cannot chase someone without keeping your eye on them. They will always have the added vault speed unless you decided to look away from the survivor at every single window and dropped pallet.
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Ah yes, nerf a decent, but reliable perk and make DS, DH and Unbreakable even more prominent than they currently are.
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Anecdotal evidence is not good evidence.
I'm talking about Spinechill in context of a game with experienced players. I assume you, going up against survivors that know what they're doing, (which is becoming exceedingly rare in red ranks due to the ranking system) as any killer other than the top 4 will not make you likely to win.
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Those perks have their problems, certainly. But I'm not talking about them.
Tackling the meta is it's own problem. But Spinechill is apart of it, including the perks you just mentioned.
So it's best to go through them 1 at a time.
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Right. It's an always-on enhanced terror radius that forces every killer (and especially stealth killers) to approach every gen without being able to get a full visual from their limited first person perspective. And it does this without even being needed to be in a survivor's kit, as there is never any indication that any of the survivors are running it. It's not like Nurse's Calling, where there are definite context clues that the killer can see you.
Survivors feel one step ahead of you? Maybe it's luck, maybe they saw you - um, since you already have the TR and red stain and they've got a 3rd person view - maybe they're good and paying great attention. Or, maybe the game just tells them exactly when they need to start running no matter what, regardless of how hunter/stalker you're trying to be. Guess I have to moonwalk or strafe everywhere just in case.
It forces a major change in killer behavior, with a significant downside for them (not being able to keep my eyes peeled sucks), and it doesn't need to be run on a survivor to still be effective. It's a pretty big hand holder.
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This is exactly what I've been saying.
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