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Should Spine Chill be nerfed?
Comments
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It counters stealth killers but have you ever thought that simply turning your camera if you're going to a gen nullifies SC entirely?
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Not that I want Spine Chill to be nerfed, it's an OP perk for sure but nothing that needs to be changed, but in what reality should a STEALTH Killer have to moon walk on their unsuspecting prey? That is just unnatural in an already unnatural game. If Myer's Tier 1, Pig, and GhostFace can counteract Premonition, why can't it counter Spine Chill?
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If you really want a Spine Chill counter, they do exist believe it or not.
Try using Spine Chill against a Nurse, Spirit or Freddy. They can all get across the map quicker than most Killers so the advance warning doesn't help so much. Nurse and Spirit don't even traditionally loop so the vault speed doesn't really matter. Freddy can flat out prevent fast vaults with snares.
Also, Freddy, Spirit and Nurse are all in the Top 5 best Killers in the game and a common sight at high ranks. Spine Chill OP. eyerolls
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Right, but you have to do that whether they are running SC or not, because there's no way to know.
Stealth killers have abilities in their kit designed to help them sneak up on survivors. They still require subtlety and finesse to use well. The counter to stealth killers? Press one button before the game starts and you never have to worry about them much again, unless the killer hamstrings their visuals every time they approach a gen. The survivor never has to do anything to counter. It's a requirement that the killer use his abilities well, and respond to a counter well, while expecting nothing from the survivor.
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I dunno about anything else, but I think EW1 Mikey should be immune to Spine Chill like he used to be. He needs to look at survivors to tier up and he's slow. That's part of the fun of him, both playing as him and going up against him: in tier 1 he could be anywhere. You look up and unexpectedly see that white mask off in the distance, watching you.
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Those aren't counters at all. Nurse and Spirit still have to look in your direction to move towards you. And unless Freddy is teleporting right on top of you from somewhere else (which you'll see him because by that point, you're retreating), Spine Chill beats him too.
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Spine chill does not need to be nerfed.
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Spirit can literally approach speeds of 170% movement speed with add-ons in her power. Nurse can 30m with one blink and 12m with the second with her best add-ons. You're not going to get far if they're coming for you because of Discordance, Thrilling or BBQ. Spine Chill's 36m warning will have little to no impact. Same with Freddy. If he's teleporting to a generator, you don't need Spine Chill to tell you that so its not getting any value.
And all three of those Killers really don't care at all about vault speeds because they use their power to chase. Not traditional M1 gameplay. There's no true "counter" to Spine Chill because the perk isn't prevented from activating, but the perk's effects are basically a placebo in those scenarios because its so insignificant
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Spine Chill is most effective against Spirit during chases when she phases. It doesn't matter about her approaching. Even then, a warning is still better than nothing. And a Nurse using a fully charged blink still takes time to activate.
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Yes, lets make the pool of usable survivor perks even smaller.
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Should the "Undetectable" status effect prevent you from being detected?
Yes?
Then Spine Chill should be nerfed.
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This has to be bait
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I'm now seriously starting to wonder if anyone reads this thread before commenting, because I'll say it again, If a single perk forces a killer to change their movement, (and potentially miss survivors they don't see), then it's too powerful on its own.
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You mistake nerfing a perk for making it useless.
I would like better perks in general though.
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Have Spine Chill, along with all Killer detection perks, constantly trigger while affected by Oblivious. This will be akin to the Doctor's Illusionary Terror Radius, where it puts Suvivors on their guard or scares them off even if the Killer isn't really there.
While the Killer is Undetectable, have Spine Chill, along with all Killer detection perks, not work for 5 seconds after 5 seconds of being active (turning on and off every 5s (like Distortion, but for Killers)). (Premonition remains unchaged by this, effectively, because of its already built-in cooldown.)
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Idk man. Just look at all of the comments I've made supporting my argument and tell me.
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'Forced to adapt their movement' you mean like survivors always have to do vs. BBQ/chili.
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Spine... CHILL... LMAO
Rank 15 detected
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So you want even more people running sweaty meta perks?
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Hopping into a locker or behind a gen when you clearly see the killer pick someone up is nowhere near comparable to strafing across the map until you find someone on the mere presumption that they have a specific perk.
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The ranking system is about as meaningful as this comment.
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Spinechill is absolutely meta. I've already been over this, (again...), but it's better to alter one meta perk at a time rather than change all of them at once.
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Yeah let’s put rank 15s against red ranks and see if it’s the same thing lmao
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Rank 1 is filled with people that used to be in the previous ranks but are now stuck here thanks to the match making changes.
I know from mine, and other people's experiences, that rank has never been less important as a factor for determining skill.
I'm curious if you have a counter argument to this or are just going to say something without evidence with "lmao" stapled to the end.
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Rank 1s are filled with previous rank 15s just as much rank 15s are now filled with previous rank 20s. See?
Now, I never said it determines skill, I said they’re not the same thing.
How many times do you, as a red rank player loses to a brown rank player?
Yeah
lmao
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The only nerf I ever thought of for Spine Chill (really just a buff to Undetectable) was that any perks that alerted you to the Killer while within a certain range (OoO, Premonition, Spine Chill) would only activate at half their range if the Killer has Undetectable.
So instead of 36 Meters you'd only be notified at 18 Meters with a Cloaked Wraith, Tier 1 Myers, Crouching Pig, Shrouded Ghostface, Kind of? Emerging Demogorgon.
Good idea? don't know as I haven't thought on it at all since they announced Undetectable.
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@SirCracken I just wouldn't respond to the "get good" stuff, regardless of what your rank is. Along the same lines of it being bad design to have a perk that requires the entire killer roster to alter their movement patterns and limit their field of view just in case someone is running an otherwise perfect early warning system, the argument that you can't see bad design for what it is unless you're super pro is equally shoddy.
This game is incredibly simplistic in terms of design. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it doesn't take an engineering degree or a super black belt rank to see how the parts could fit together a little better.
Just identify when it's most important to have Spine Chill running and trigger it based on that. Maybe when a gen you're working on is 90/80/70 completed, so you can take the risk that the TR already massively reduces for you and squeeze out that last little bit, if you just can't be bothered to use your eyeballs.
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Yes. But far more bad and mediocre players are in high ranks now than ever before. So much so that I've manged to get away with a win using a gimmick build or 2 with the reduced stress of vsing a high skill team. I still run into them from time to time.
This is correct.
Brown rank survivors are bad, generally. Yellow and green ranks are ok, generally. But I've vs'ed lots of red ranks are clearly should not be there. I'll admit that, g e n e r a l l y, when I lose it's to high ranks. But that doesn't change the fact that the horrific match making has now made rank almost obsolete.
Also, I though you said I was rank 15?
"L m a o"
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A change I'd like to see is have the perk disabled until activated manually. It then stays active for a set amount of time until its duration runs out and it goes on cooldown.
Hell, it could even be like a mini-exhaustion perk, and gives you small exhaustion duration each time you use it.
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So I was wrong about your rank, my bad. But you said it yourself. You are in the red ranks but you don’t BELONG there. That explains why you think Spine Chill needs to be nerfed.
If you struggle to win because of that perk, seriously, just... lmao
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That works too - we need more perks like Dead Hard (that require active input for the benefit) and less "lobby outplay" in general, since we can't see builds pre-game.
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If a change along those lines were to be implemented, I'd rather it just not trigger at all with Undetectable.
It wouldn't really be true to the name, "Undetectable", if it still triggered Spinechill.
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Yo not everybody who notices a poorly designed perk or has a suggestion to make something better is voicing it because they're butthurt about losing to it.
I've never even thought twice about Spine Chill but the dude is correct. It's poorly designed, end of story. If you have an actual argument for why it isn't that doesn't boil down to I'M SO ELITE I GET 5Ks WITH NO PERKS WHAT ARE YOU A NOOB>?!??? then feel free to contribute. Otherwise, chill out with that red rank brown rank bullcrap.
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On the contrary, I win the vast majority of my games. Even though I'm in red ranks. The fact that I perform well, despite the hoard of other balance issues mind you, does not make my opinion any less valid than yours.
Even if you are passive aggressive and have yet to give any arguments beyond "gitgud".
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And your argument is: You want it changed simply because YOU want it too. Because YOU think it’s unfair and I don’t.
I never said your opinion wasn’t valid, I just mocked because I think it’s a joke.
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That only makes sense if you completely ignore the design points made. We can disagree that one potential lobby choice perk shouldn't require every killer on the roster to alter their movement and vision to try to counter if they're planning on applying any kind of stealth to their hunt, but you haven't given anything resembling a reason why that's fine except that you don't care.
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Oh, so the reason here is that you don’t want to adapt to a perk that not even a lot of survivors use... now I get it.
Spine Chill is a counter to stealth killers, just as many other perks in the game counters something else. It’s not like DS where you literally don’t have a choice.
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Why would it need a nerf? High ranks don't need to use it, unless for a challenge. Low ranks use it to learn the game and get a feel for when and where the killer is coming from. Mid ranks can escape sticky situations as they're a middle-of-the-road stage and kinda still need the help sometimes. I run it and it doesn't always save me. Killers can still outplay. If you're just having bad games against spine chill gamers, just say that instead of b*tching here about nerfing the perk. I play fine against it and it doesn't entirely help me when I play with it. I'm clearly not the only one saying this either.
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Any good survivor runs Spinechill. It's not uncommon at all. And has already been said, many times now, in this very thread, Spinechill does more than counter stealth killers.
Have you read any of the arguments in this thread?
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Any nerf to Spine Chill would make it useless.
There are far more pressing concerns about the game than nerfing a perk that’s been here since Day 1.
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No, I don't mind adapting to something that not a lot of survivors use. I don't mind adapting to something that a lot of survivors use. My god, did you read any of the thread? I don't think it's good design to push all killers to adapt that severely to a lobby perk that is largely unidentifiable in the course of the game. It's not just a counter to killers with stealth as part of their kit, it's a counter to any kind of LOS blocking stealthy gameplay from any killer, which just reinforces the already one-dimensional killer gameplay loop.
DS is a different story and honestly not horrendously designed on its own, as it's got pretty specific triggers - you know when you're at risk for DS and can play appropriately in those situations. You're always constantly at risk playing against Spine Chill and have to play like it no matter what - even if no survivors are using it. That's plain and simple poorly designed.
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Ok. I'm getting a bit sick of this.
I've already addressed those counter arguments:
- High skill, (rank is meaningless) survivors know how to best abuse Spinechill. The perk still offers a huge benefit for survivors of other skill levels. Just not as much. Which is also part of the problem, as any person can equip the perk and either get an early warning signal that the killer is near, or force the killer to change their movement for the sake of countering a single perk that they don't even know is being run.
- I win most of my games despite Spinechill. I'm not here "bitching about the perk". I'm making a logical argument as to why it's unbalanced.
- Saying that you have no problem with this, (no matter how many other people keep repeating it) , does not make the problem magically disappear.
I seriously don't know why people keep going on about rank
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Objectively incorrect. If you've read anything on this thread, you'd know by now how badly the perk is designed.
One of those concerns is the level of attention in these forums. I've found the exact same arguments over and over again, and I keep giving my counter arguments, but no one reads them and I just get more of the same.
Why are so many people commenting when they have no idea what they are commenting about?
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Couple of reasons - one, it's the internet. Two, I'd guess that a fair number really like Spine Chill for the exact reasons it's busted.
And you'll always have the internet strongmen looking for an excuse to say "quit whining I'm so awesome nothing gets in my way IM NUMBER ONE IM NUMBER ONE you must be beta lmao."
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Nice to know they're just as prevalent here as in the actual game. Oh well.
How could this happen to me? I've made my mistakes. Got nowhere to-run. And life goes on as I'm fading away.1 -
FWIW I think Spine Chill would actually be a great start to fleshing out and encouraging more creativity and actual skill in regards to both survivor and killer gameplay, which is kind of my design quibble overall with the game. Like I said before, too many perks (particularly though not exclusively survivor perks) are lobby outplays that don't require anything from the actual player in the game.
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Nobody would use premonition even if you nerfed Spine Chill. So that argument is pretty weak. Premonition isn't used because it's got a ridiculous cooldown. Spine Chill is fine. Yes, it gives good information. But that information is limited.
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I disagree. The perk was thankfully made when cooldowns weren't stupidly long, so the only real downside to using it using it is that it's not useful during a chase. The only reason it's not used because, as I've already stated, Spinechill outclasses it completely.
There is an entire thread here filled with arguments debunking your claim that Spinechill is fine. Can you please read them?
I'm sick of this life. I just wanna scream. How could this happen to me?1 -
Wow, we're to the point where people are calling for a nerf to spine chill. I personally think it's useless without resilience and if it needs a complimentary perk, it can't be that strong.
Take into consideration the history of this game in reference to how perks can create counters to mechanics. Urban evasion was to counter the hag's traps, saboteur used to counter trapper's, bamboozle to counter looping, hangman's trick to counter sabo and so on. Spinechill is simply a counter to stealth killer mechanics, just like premonition.
I used to run premonition as for a time as I could zero in on which direction the killer was and never even considered spinechill. But then when I saw combining it with resilience to quick vault while you're hurt I ran it for a little while. I don't think that the perk is as much strong as it is trendy.
A comparable killer perk would be whispers as it also offers short range tracking. If spinechill gives survivors unfair info for a head start to run or hide then whispers gives killers unfair info to not leave a certain area of the map. I think both perks are fine as is.
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BT, DS, DH, Adrenaline, Unbreakable, Iron Will, Sprint Burst.... all of these are more popular and more powerful than Spine Chill. It doesn't need a nerf.
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