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Is Jake gay? (Tome spoilers)
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If anyone can find where the devs said one of the og survivors is queer, I’d love to see it as it would be some more concrete proof that Jake could be gay
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It sure doesn't feel that way, TBH. Feels like bi-erasure.
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As someone who previously thought they were bi, I’d never want to erase bisexual people. As far as it goes for me, ‘gay’ in a general context includes anyone who isn’t straight and/or cis.
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Rule of hand:
If nothing is CLEARLY spelt out and confirmed ON PAGE it's no confirmation, whether it's LGBTQ+ or Neurodivergent stuff
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Easy:
Joel and Tommy being downright idiotic with how much they let their guard down around Abby and co, specially Tommy which was BEGGING to have his home raided, and ill address this cause im sure youll bring the same stupid argument, getting softer over the years doesnt mean you lose over 20 years of experience, the way both acted almost made them look like people that were at the very start of the outbreak, which is funny cause Joel was already cautious at that time as seen when he ignored that family on the road.
Tommy constantly switches his stance on getting revenge trough the game and turns into a total ######### at the end.
Ellie portrayal during cutscenes and gameplay are completely disconnected
Ellie believing Joel's lie, the scene in the first game makes it really clear she didnt believe it with the face she made.
Ellie's treatment of Joel made her extremely unlikable, which was mainly caused by the above, regardless, she being so antagonistic towards him just felt out of place considering the reason Joel saved her in the first place.
Now regarding Abby, shes freaking awful...
Shes an idiot for starters, since she gets annoyed by Ellie going after her, like... what did you expect was gonna happen?, you go to her home, kill the person she was crying and screaming at you to not kill and expected she wouldnt care?, and not just her, same for Tommy which she knew was Joel's brother.
And the same goes for Lev, like, does he not care about his life or something? cause he changed gender being fully aware it would get him killed in his group.
Also regarding both, they are just discount Joel and Ellie, could they really dont come up with an original plot instead of trying to do the same dynamic Joel and Ellie had?
Abby is also a monster, this is proven multiple times, first with Joel, despite him saving her, she didnt hesitate to torture and kill him at all, not did she felt any remorse for her actions later on, she betrays her allies and kills them without hesitation to save two people she met like a day ago, she treats killing Scars like a sport, she rejoiced the idea of killing a pregnant woman, now Joel was no saint, but his actions were largely driven by survival, unlike Abby that seems to enjoy hurting others.
Regarding the remorse part, she didnt deserve to be forgiven by Ellie, that didnt made ANY sense, why? to begin with both barely interacted with each other, so Ellie has practically no reason to forgive her because theres barely any relationship between both, to Ellie, Abby is just a stranger that came one day and ruined her life, nothing else, and like i mentioned, Abby never felt any remorse for her actions.
Anyway i can keep going all day, TLOU2 is a disaster of writing, theres MANY more issues i can point out.
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when they say original survivors I think they meant non-licenced not the survivors that were in the game on release
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Can you not feel like an outsider being straight? I'm a straight guy that was raised primarily by women, my father being out of the picture so I am a little flamboyant naturally (just like how kids raised in a british household or australian household despite not being from there develop that accent). I always felt like an outsider and it had nothing to do with my sexuality.
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That's not the point, though.
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off topic: but can we please get a Drag Queen? That is all.
Bye
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To your first point, it’s not just that having a safer life made them less cautious. They were in a desperate situation, and Abby fought with them, which would have developed some trust, especially from their perspective that they saved Abby’s life. As seen in notes in the game, it’s very common for Jackson members to help and recruit people in the area, they’ve probably done it dozens of times at this point, and presumably there hasn’t been major issues. It’s human to make mistakes, and in stressful life or death situations, people make them. Joel very quickly realises something is off, they didn’t make him stupid. A major part of the first game was how Joel began jaded, then had something to live for, and Ellie is the inverse of that, so it makes sense that Joel is not quite as pessimistic as he once was.
Tommy never wavers, he always wanted to take revenge. He simply doesn’t want to put Ellie in danger, which is why he leaves her, and then is willing to return with her, for her safety as she’s all he has left of Joel. After suffering a severe injury, and breaking up with Maria, it’s completely understandable that he would be even more into the idea of killing Abby as she has directly and indirectly cost him everything.
Not sure what you want to do about this, you have to suspend disbelief with gameplay and story in most games, this isn’t a TLOU2 issue.
The game never implies Ellie ever believed him, only that she WANTED to as that was easier.
Being unlikable doesn’t make a character bad, Ellie has immense survivor guilt and she’s projecting that anger at herself for being alive onto Joel. He took her purpose away, and is only able to try forgive him at the end, which reminds the player that she still loves him.
Abby is a hypocrite when she tells Ellie she saved her for sure, but this is literally after the person she loved died, I think it’s understandable why she wouldn’t be in the best mental place.
I don’t think it’s fair at all to blame Lev, as he is a child and in history, the threat of death hasn’t stopped lgbtq people being themselves.
Joel and Ellie really aren’t the same as Abby and Lev, it’s a parental bond vs more of a sibling bond. They also have the dynamic coming from rivalling groups, which is not something Joel and Ellie had to deal with. The point is that as Abby begins to view Lev (and the scars) as humans, despite being her enemies, we can sympathise with Abby despite her being the person who killed a character we love. That’s why Lev and Abby’s relationship is significant, it’s a metaphor.
Quite frankly, I would never forgive someone who killed my parent, even if they saved me, not sure who would. Also, it’s flat out false that Abby doesn’t feel remorse for her actions. She has nightmares before killing Joel, and still has them after, showing that her revenge on him didn’t make her feel any less angry. It’s only until she helps Lev & Yara, that they go away, as she’s making a positive decision in her life to help people, instead of hurting them. Again, the man Abby loved was literally just killed by Ellie, the fact that she’s able to control herself and spare her + Dina shows how she’s grown and is not a monster.
Ellie literally had to forgive Abby, as she knows damn well she crossed the line by threatening Lev, a child. She remembers how angry she was at Joel, and how that anger cost her time that she could’ve spent with Joel, and now her anger at Abby has cost her her love and adoptive child. She also saw how Abby’s first priority upon being cut down was taking Lev to safety, and that humanised Abby to a certain extent in Ellie’s eyes. Ellie is so exhausted at the end, she is tired of fighting, and only wants the pain to end, but knows after her experience in Seattle, the way to get over her pain is not with violence, it’s with love.
The first game is about overcoming loss with love, the second is about overcoming loss with hate, but then at the final hour backing down from hate to retain the last shred of humanity Ellie has.
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Still, I’d like to see what they said. Either way, it’s interesting.
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No worries.
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Ehh idk. Why would they make his orientation a riddle while everyone else's is just stated normally.
To me this just seems like him being "different". If this is about his sexuality then this was a very weird way for bhvr to reveal it.
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To be fair, no sexuality is explicitly stated, just names/genders of partners and such, but not the whole picture.
but I agree, if nothing romantically or sexually is stated it’s probably not meant as a direct confirmation.
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I don't know. I'm personally not seeing any homoerotic undertones in those quotes. 'Straight thing' is unlikely to be referring to literal heterosexuality in the context the quote is using it in.
As people have already mentioned, it seems more likely they're insinuating he's "wired differently", as Claudette's tome lore put it. Out of place in his society (keep in mind he's from an old fashioned rich family) mentally instead of sexually, if you will.
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1.- That just made them look stupid and unrealistic to begin with, recruiting people without any caution like they did is just begging to get stabbed in the back and lose your stuff, Joel and Tommy in particular know how messed up the world is, specially Joel, hell like 80% of the humans in the first game were either robbers, murderers or cannibals, also thats just alliance for convenience, not trust, all 3 didn't really had a choice whenever they should trust each other or not, they were forced to, also Joel didnt sensed anything was wrong until the last second..., if anything he acted dumbfounded that they clearly recognize him which should be a MASSIVE RED FLAG considering his backstory, which is just out of character for someone has cautious as him that didnt even trusted his own shadow
2.- The thing is that it makes him look really unrealistic and even stupid, he himself says how it would be incredibly dangerous to do something like that alone, and yet he does it anyway without any help, something that nearly got him killed at least twice btw, considering his backstory it doesnt make much sense, let alone switching his opinion so often.
3.- It is a major issue though, thats the point, the story portrays Ellie has extremely affected for her actions to the point of collapsing, while in the gameplay she is taunting the enemies and is just fine.
4.- Mate... she straight up goes to the Fireflies to find out the truth..., she did believed him for whatever stupid reason, and constantly questioned what happened, even though is obvious he lied to her, that just made her look like an idiot for doing so, the whole thing was handled poorly for starters, like did we seriously needed that situation resolved in a stupid flashback?
5.- Doesnt change the fact that she is unlikable, and she is poorly written in this game.
6.- It still makes her look stupid for lashing at Ellie for seeking revenge.
7.- He isnt young enough to not understand this, specially considering he was raised in that world.
8.- I meant in how its a hardened survivor being paired with a little kid which soften them, they arent exactly the same, but its basically the same dynamic but poorly made, since Joel's and Ellie's was believable while Abby's and Lev's wasnt.
9.- The nightmares came from his father dying not her killing Joel, just cause she didnt feel peace for killing him doesnt mean she regrets killing him or that she feels remorse for it, which she doesnt, also, it was Lev who stopped her, not herself, she even readied the knife to cut Dina's throat, it would be different if she had stopped on her own accord rather than being convinced by Lev.
10.- The problem is that Ellie is basically a monster at that point, having giving up everything just for that moment only to back away at the last second, after having killed countless of people, and like i mentioned they barely know each other, the mere fact that Ellie free Abby was already dump, it would have been more realistic for her to leave her there if anything, her forgiving Abby just felt cheap and underserved.
To add more points, the pacing is atrocious, constantly interrupted by flashbacks and then doing a full reset to see Abby's story which btw felt like filler since it barely has anything to do with Ellie until the very end.
Also cutscene injuries just disappear magically, two examples being Ellie's arrow on her shoulder which later we dont see any sign of and later with Abby leg injury from Ellie's knife.
Abby's and Lev's (also the sister whos name i cant remember) relationship just felt rushed, she basically gives up everything to protect 2 randoms she has know for less than a day, even killing her former allies without hesitation, Joel and Ellie took considerably more time (a year) to build up theirs and felt far more natural.
The very concept of the sequel is dump, its literally "out of nowhere daughter from random NPC with less than a min of screen time, comes back to take revenge and kills the protagonist", like... that straight up sounds like a fanfic.
They really wanted you to sympathize with Abby and it was annoying..., the best example being the dog.
Two freaking love triangles...
Speaking off, Mel, (that was her name?) how the hell is that baby even alive?, she is put into dangerous missions which btw why?, riding on the back of a car on rough terrain, etc, its a miracle that the baby didnt died before Ellie killed Mel, and the same goes to Dina, getting rocketed from the horse by a mine and falling a long distance and getting beat up.
Also "that" scene, you know which on im talking about, Abby just escaped from an attempted handing which she still has the marks on her neck and her lover or whatever is questioning his life decision in clear depression, yet they both feel like doing it? that just felt so out of place.
Could also mention Abby's body which doesnt make sense at all.
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He’s pansexual. 😎
Seriously though, I think they’re just talking about his past and heritage, lol. Jake also comes from a rich family, talks to himself, loves nature instead of technology and such. He’s not exactly considered normal.
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Please keep this topic respectful and actually on topic please.
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I doubt that any of this except the last bit is even trying to hint at him being gay.
The first paragraph is about unrealistic expectations, the second is what drives most historians, professional or amateur.
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Mmm. Kinda wish more people would use "queer".
Especially since its not just bi-erasure.
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I stole your meme.
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I'm clearly in the minority here but I honestly hate that word. I've heard it used as a slur more often then not that I just want to erase it from my memory. I don't like hearing it, even when it isn't used as a slur, because it just reminds me of when it is. And yes unfortunately, it still is used that way these days.
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Thanks this one I actually made myself, shockingly.
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Nearly every single word that has ever been used to describe members of the LGBT+ community has been used as a slur.
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qu**r is not an umbrella term. A great deal of us take great offense to it. I’m ok it someone chosen to identify themselves by the slur but you don’t have the right or authority to put it on others.
I really hate the erasure of things we’ve gone through. You’re def not in the minority
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Think you responded to the wrong person there. ProfoundEnding did explicitly say they don't like the word.
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Did you mean to quote me? I am uncomfortable with the word. I also wasn't the one who said it was an umbrella term. I think you meant to quote the other guy.
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I did but I accidentally replied before finishing my sentiment
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So what would you propose as an all-encompassing term that is recognised as such that absolutely no-one at all could ever be insulted by despite literally every single letter in the full LGBT+ banner being used to hurt people?
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I certainly don't lol I feel like people forget Queer is still a slur and the community does exist outside the internet.
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Exactly. Just because the online LGBT community reclaims it doesn't mean IRL many do. Trust me theres so many more out there we disagree with using it especially to describe the community as a whole.
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Gay was never an actual slur and it was more of a light insult that hasn't been used wide spread outside of a few spots on the internet in years. Qu**r is used and always has been used as a slur for decades and is still incredibly offensive to a LOT of LGBT people. Myself and many friends included.
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Gay is no where on the same level as qu**r
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I gues we're from very different places then, because I still see people screaming "gay" at people before they throw a punch.
Edit: not to mention all the internet rants about "the gays".
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Gay hasn't been used as a slur outside of a few spots for years? Idk where you live but it's still incredibly widespread in the UK (while ironically queer hasn't been used in a derogatory manner over here for ages, to the best of my knowledge- it's definitely far less common than gay).
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No, it's considerably worse where I'm from.
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Holy ######### this thread got huge fast
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Jake being homosexual isn't going to change my view on him, he's still going to be the same Jake we all know and love.
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Love even more after the rework BHVR made him hotter
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Yeah I love Jake's rework, they made him look like a different person but kept his charm.
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Based on those 3 quotes I don't think it has to do with him being part of lgbt+ community.
First one I'd need context to know what the "straight thing" is they're talking about. Right now it just seems really random thing to say and a vague/odd way to reveal first official lgbt+ character.
To me the other two quotes seem more to do with him being Korean in US and not following his dad's footsteps. US history books/curriculum are generally very biased and rarely if ever look at the perspective of the other side. Usually the only time Asians are brought up would be when talking about wars with Asian countries as enemies but never the history of Asians in America as Americans/things they've done to help the country. Alot of popular media rarely casts an Asian character and when it comes to Asian cultures they usually would just lump all cultures together like they're the same thing - if they specified country was usually very stereotyped which isn't too helpful for representation.
If it does turn out this is them revealing a lgbt+ character good on them for officially adding lgbt+ character but I think it's sad that it's so vague that it can be explained away. I do think based on their statements that when they finally officially reveal an lgbt+ character it will be a new character.
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Before this is taken down could you please link it? I've been wanting to read the lore early.
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Is that not the correct terminology?
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From those quotes Id say its probably overthinking/coincidence or something. I personally don't go with it as theres no context to really back it up, its up to the devs to say it or itll forever be speculation. Unless of course something later in the tome revealed more. Either outcome wouldn't surprise me though because I get how this could mean he's gay and stuff.
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It's the same as people who say "females" instead of literally anything else. You can already tell exactly what they're going to say before they say it.
Yes, it is technically the correct terminology but there are so, so many other ways of saying it.
"I don't hate homosexuals" vs "I don't hate lgbt+ people" guess which one sounds better
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I... didn't get the slightest hint of this from hers. Ill have to recheck it out ig
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I'm sorry for bothering you, but you're not a mod, right? It said a mod commented on this discussion and when I click on the button it keeps sending me to your comment
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I really wish we could see the whole thing for better context but here's my two cents.
- 1st Quote: More about Jake's mentality rather than his sexuality.
- 2nd Quote: This is about Jake being "different" or peculiar than other students who are taught in schools. Now you could elude to his "different" sexuality, but that's a little farfetched.
- 3rd Quote: I think this one's about his identity and heritage. I don't understand the "New Country" part, but his young age + Korean heritage is definitely the focus here.
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Here’s the full tome lore https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NN_1fwDZlWyTHpE4_BbM8uY6JqlhWqY-cDoZ5T9yQP8/edit?usp=sharing
if we could not discuss the clown + observer stuff here since I haven’t read it yet that would be appreciated
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But yeah, people have brought up some good points here as to why he may not be gay, but I’m going to choose to believe it for now :)
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