General Discussions
General Discussions
Why is killers being weak suddenly okay?
Comments
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I don't mind challenge but only if it actual challenge not "the killer is restricted due to outside reasons " the fact of the matter is however, from otz on down everyone is saying this killer is c at best and I find it a joke that BHVR expect people to pay for lower tiered character that are going into a losing battle right out of the gate.
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Yeah Pyramid Head works best against survivors in Animation lock.
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Powercreep has been an issue in DBD since I don't know when, and the devs have done a pretty good job to keep things balanced with perks to give even older killers an a competitive edge. I remember when playing trapper was viable, but nowadays any M1 killer is at a severe disadvantage. Low mobility killers with passive secondary powers are just SoL, because the introduction of certain perks have made their entire playstyle obsolete. With the introduction of free infinite medkits a good chunk of the killer roster becomes a complete joke.
Trapper? Not viable anymore. One of his best add-ons that injures when disarming traps can be (almost) completely ignored. No map mobility.
Wraith? Best be running speed and uncloaking add-ons to injure and catch up fast, though wraith at least has decent map mobility. Still viable against mediocre survivors.
Hilbilly? Still viable, has an M2 instadown and good mobility.
Nurse? Strong. Even stronger with add-ons.
Myers? Lol. Has some lethality, but lacks mobility. Very add-on dependent.
Hag? Same deal as trapper, forget about the hit and run playstyle, though she has some interesting add-ons that make alternate play styles viable.
Doctor? He's anti-loop and can usually end a chase quickly, though no map mobility. Still viable.
Huntress? How viable she remains depends entirely on how good you're with your hatchet throws.
Bubba? Still viable, though lacking in map mobility big time.
Freddy? Good map mobility, but suffers from being an M1 killer.
Pig? Standard M1 killer with a gimmick, not viable anymore.
Clown? Hueeerghhhuuhheeeeheee.
Spirit? Strong, but can get shafted by a huge map.
Legion? A prime example of a killer that lost all viability after the introduction of free infinite medkits.
Plague? Perhaps the best counter to the free infinite medkit meta, but somewhat hindered by low map mobility.
Ghostface? Still viable against survivors that struggle to reveal him. Other than that, basically an M1 killer who can get lucky instadowns.
Demo? Decent map mobility and chase power, but again, one of those killers that needs to commit to a chase lest the survivor finds himself in an area with free infinite medkits.
Oni? While the free infinite medkits hurt his power, once he gets going he's still viable.
Deathslinger? Same deal as demo minus the map mobility and even slower, I don't consider him a viable killer anymore.
Pyramidhead? Decent anti-loop killer who is ultimately hampered by his low map mobility.
Blight? Killer on crack, while being extremely viable coincidentally also has some of the best add-on selection in the game.
Twins? Lol.
Trickster? I'm torn on this one, his slow speed and lack of map pressure really hurts him, and his now even more limited number of knifes only really present survivors caught off guard with a problem.
Nemesis? Decently viable anti-loop killer, with some very RNG dependent map control. Terrible add-ons.
Pinhead? Good map pressure, another anti-loop M1 killer.
Artist? Great map pressure, decent anti-looper, terrible add-on selection. Surprised we don't see her more.
Sadako? Too early to really tell, but it looks like she's a Freddy with a side-gimmick that can mostly be ignored while also not having any of the anti-loop capabilities that freddy has.
Commit to a chase, get an injure, go through three pallets, get the down, lose two gens. Before the introduction of free infinite medkits you could injure survivors, drop the chase, and go defend gens for example, and unless that person had a medkit, self-care or a teammate nearby, it would slow the game down. That playstyle is pretty much gone, and a lot of the killers suffer from it. There's a reason why we go against maybe 1/4th of all available killers all the time.
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Some streamers survivors are questionable. Its like bhvr lower their mmr without them knowing because they are an advertisement and don't want to show what the game is like.
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"the killer is restricted due to outside reasons " - no idea what that means. Anyway, don't buy what you don't want to buy. Not sure why you are trying to convince me. I'll buy it because I like variety and I like challenge.
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You must be the greatest player ever since your kill rates are even higher than some of the best DBD players atm. Once again, when you talk to me about real stats and about the real game and your only argument isn't "As the greatest player ever I have no problem and official stats that show all ranks say otherwise." Despite us only talking about high MMR and overall balance.
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We are NOT talking about specific MMR, because none of us knows what our MMR is. Prove me wrong but showing me how you determined your MMR. I'm far from greatest and I still routinely dominate survivors. Greatest players barely have any losses at all. Anyway, it seems like you don't have any arguments except repeating same strawman over and over.
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Do you know what a strawman is
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Do you? Strawman an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument. You keep repeating same thing over and over "You must be the greatest player ever since your kill rates are even higher than some of the best DBD players atm." which is an obviously misrepresented proposition, since
a) I neither claimed nor provided enough information to determine that I'm greatest.
b) This is not even close to the best DBD players atm. Watch Otzdarva and count his wins, then tell me again how it's not an obvious lie.
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Actually Dowsey thinks she is a tier and will bring back hit and run, rofl... I am not even kidding. Oh, and I guess Coconut thinks she is not weak. No idea what that means, but you know, some killer mains believe she is pretty dank, apparently.
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I have no idea what you are talking about. Anyway, I barely have any losses, even with weakest killers. So I don't get many pity matches. Just had another Pig match: 3k + hatch with 1 gen left. Before that had Nemi match: 4k with 2 gens left. I've been winning most of my games for over a year now, which probably over a thousand matches. How many years in a row do I need to keep mostly winning to hit MMR cap?
As I explained, the problem is not MMR, but the matchmaking system that ignores MMR in order to speed up matching.
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I don't have faith behavior could do that without breaking half of the game.
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Not every single killer can be S tier.
There will always be characters in games that are "the worst" or simply "lower tier" than others. You could argue that every killer in this game pales in comparison to Nurse since she's in her own tier. Not every killer can or should be on her level.
Also again, it's too early to tell where exactly Sadako will fall on the tier list. I don't care if Otz says she's low C tier, I'll wait for dedicated Onryō players to show us just what she's capable of in the next month or so to come. Y'all need to calm down with the crazy projections as well as doom and gloom. Seriously it feels like there is no pleasing killer mains.
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"it feels like there is no pleasing killer mains." - I'm killer main and I'm pleased. Hard to imagine, but we don't have a hive mind. Believe it or not, but we are all individuals.
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It's fine for Killers to be weak, it's not fine for the game's definition of weak to be "intended playstyle can be almost entirely negated by the right perks and an inkling of common sense".
It's not fine for powersets to have such glaring issues you're at risk of spending more time playing M1 killer without much power usage.
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Killers are not weak at all... survivors were buffed to counter all of their tactics and so a lot of killer players are forced to resort to the lowest form of strategy in this game... camping
So the question should be "Why are survivors so strong? Why are survivor queue times so long? Why are most killer queue times instant?", etc
Dont assume killers are weak and then ask for buffs... killers being weak is a symptom of a separate problem that will probably not be addressed
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But what is the tier based on?
fun to play?
how difficult a killer is to play effectively?
how difficult it is to secure a 4k?
what is the tier based on? Because depending on the answer you provide, might explain your own question
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@edgarpoop found the comment
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Dowsey thinks it's low A tier. I share his feeling.
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That's the difficulty. The scales have no benchmark or definition, so squabbling over them is pointless. Unless we know what a 'C-tier' is supposed to be, 'A-tier' is meaningless.
I went to a school with a percentual system, instead of a lettering system that apparently randomly skips one.
But if that is the case, I suspect it's the 'F = fail' thing, right? Which'd make a D passable, and a C adequate.
How would it not matter if they're fun or not? I could just sweat it out on Blight/Nurse all the time, sure, but I'll still want to play Pig, or either PH. Fun concepts will also make money. Their perks will make money. And mastering a kit will make a difference. The best Hillbilly will do better than the worst Blight, in disregard of how strong either pick is.
Some people play for fun, some people are skilled. Not everyone is looking to play only S-tier killers.
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I only say this because i have been playing him just to land shots and it is rare to ever land a shot when they can see me.
I also never mentioned mmr. If that is what you are referencing. I doubt i am even that high since i spent a long time throwing games to have some fun.
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Idc what Otz says I held this opinion when I first saw her power description. She has no way to down survivors thats what puts her in D-C tier.
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Ability to actually win. Shes not difficult just bad.
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Dowsey also said that Artist was possibly better than Nurse and Pinhead was S tier.
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The community has always been okay with killers being weak. This game's A tier is like any other game's C tier. You need S tier to beat even decent survivors.
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To be fair, you don't always need to get the hit to get value out of the power. If you're looping a pallet, you can prep your power to fake the survivor out, making them not drop the pallet when they should.
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For average player Artist is better than Nurse and Pinhead is S tier. He was obviously not talking about exceptional Nurse players who have 5k hours playing just her. For most players Artist would be better than Nurse. Look at official stats from devs. Notice that Cenobite is at the very top?
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maybe its just too hard to fix the older killers at this point so they don't bother.
Its disheartening to see comments like "just aim for four BBQ stacks, that's how I have fun".
Its like they want it to be some kind of everyone gets a trophy day set up, the killer gets 4xBBQ stacks and all the survivors escape and everyone gets that little ribbon that says participant award so noone feels left out.
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"Not every killer needs to be top-tier, and it's fine" People love to parrot streamers instead of thinking by themselves.
Maybe she don't need to be top-tier, but she don't have to be joke-tiers either.
Otherwise people while rarely play her 2 weeks after her release.
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Because they're survivor mains and enjoy bulying weak killers.
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They got nerfed because survivors complained about it and BHVR always listen to whatever survivors say.
Also if BHVR creates the impression of killers with no antiloop=instantly weak relegated to bottom tier no one will ever bother to play said killers ever.
Also BHVR being survivor biased also hurts the survivor playerbase with entitlement thinking they deserve to have everything on easy mode.
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She is C tier at best,even Otz said so.
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Ther shouldnt be S or C tier killers.
They all should be equally strong.
And yes, it might be extremly hard to balance but its possible.
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That's honestly my opinion on the matter, I legitimately enjoy just playing the game to have fun and trying to win without sweating super hard.
(if this message is illegible, it's because my cat just woke me up at an ungodly hour for my timezone.)
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Its fine to have weaker killers just as its fine to have weaker perks. Not every killer can be Nurse
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Took longer than I thought tbh
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Like I said she doesn't have to be an s tier killer but with the game's numerous issues now an "average and fun " character doesn't equal what the devs want to sell the chapter at because it will lead one of two things either people seeing it more as a slog to grind out the character or they play it a handful of times and the character dies out like most now which for a game that isn't free and has an increasing complete experience price is an issue.
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It means restrictions out of the killer's control in this case having a tactic that is unreliable and needing atleast one good slowdown perk to even stand a chance which this killer is lacking in.
And idk why I'm trying to convince you, why are you trying to tell me that a underachieving killer is worth the money out of the gate.
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And some people think its not survivor biased which it is, so what difference does it make? For all we know they could just be smoking the hopium trying to convince themselves that an underachieving killer is not an underachieving killer.
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What is qualified as a win?
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Because you most certainly can still win with low tier killers lol that is why there is still clown mains, pig mains, myer mains, etc that still do good and win. People need to stop acting like winning in this game is absolutely impossible and you lose every round unless you are a nurse with 10k hours and 4 gen perks lol every killer should still be good but we dont need every killer to be a nurse, and we don't need every killer to be a boring anti loop zoning killer. I'm personally excited for the fact we have a new stealth killer. Being a killer main is immensely boring right now with most killers being the same now.
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Yea instead of anti loop killer #762 she is passive slowdown killer #426, but her slowdown can be completely ignored. Seems so fun!
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Then what's pinheads excuse?
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He’s easy to play and easy to counter?
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What other passive slowdown killers are there? Pig and pinhead are the only candidates I’d say
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Side objective killers*. They fall into the category of being too strong against new players and rather weak against competent players for the most part. Pig/Pinhead/Plague/Nemesis/Freddy all have overinflated killrates even though most of them are on the weak end.
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I wouldn't say hes easy to play but he is easy to counter.
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I agree. I don't like the idea of tiers I wish we could be at a point where each killer is able to hold themselves up at high tiers.
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Thank you! My point exactly.
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Who the ######### ranks Killers based on their ability to kill people who don't know how to deal with them? That's the most useless ranking system in existence. "If you play this Killer a lot, and get good with them, this is how they won't perform because you'll be against players who do know! :)"
That'd be like ranking Survivor perks based on how good they are if you don't know how to use them.
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