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Slugging is now a dead strat!
Comments
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Holy hell, altruism/sabo squads are going to utterly own this game if this ends up eventually going live without some sort of counterplay or mechanism in place to prevent it.
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What happens if a dying state survivor isn’t in range of any hooks? What option does the killer have? What happens when bully SWFs swarm the area with flashlights and toolboxes, and the killer is forced to leave the survivor slugged?
Does this mean hook dead zones are now survivor safe zones, where survivors can run to during chases, and the killer can’t progress the game? Will there be a lot more hooks added, so the killer always has a hook in range? Will wiggling be severely nerfed so killers always have the option to hook a survivor?
Will power struggle be nerfed so that the killer can avoid it, or will survivors under pallets be free escapes for the survivor? Bully SWFs exist, that will dance around the area with flashlights, so killers can’t always pick someone up right away.
Will flashlight saves be nerfed, or is this another buff for bully SWFs that will purposely get knocked down in an open area, where the killer can’t look directly at a wall to avoid flashlight saves?
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Slugging was always used by killers to buy time, and this change doesn't affects that much. They will buy time with it. and slugging at the last 2 survivors in the game becomes even rewarding since if the killer downs one while another is slugged he instantly kills both of them
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Twins is already a priority due for a rework, and I dont think they will release this on live servers untill they altered Twins too. Any strategy that is repeatable and viable that requires players to not play the game for 4 minutes is simply an unhealthy strategy.
Besides, Slugging in general is simply super boring, being unable to do anything for 4 full minutes while being forced to stay in the game is boring. Not even talking that there basically is no risk for killers to end chase quickly.
This is a very healthy change, and a very neccesary one. There might be some downsides to it in higher MMR, but thats negligable compared to the downsides the current system has. Let alone that those downsides are much easier to fix.
Thats not even talking about the simple fact that a downed survivor is a survivor that cant work on gens. And Unbreakable wont be the most powerful perk in the game. Maybe for current meta, but that meta will change. How many killers do you think will slug for 22 seconds after knowing Unbreakable can pick survivors up multiple times? They wont. They will spend maybe 10 seconds on getting a second down, and then be forced back to hook or have that survivor being downed again.
Thats a very healthy risk factor. You decide to use the slug to either slow down the game while you chase someone else, or you pick up the slug to get a hook state. Right now, there is NO risk to slugging someone. Its literally just a free hooked survivor without needing to hook.
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Gotta also make it so you can unhook yourself in second stage too. And Deliverance requiring a safe unhook? Kind of annoying. Let's just remove that requirement. Also make self-care basekit and increase the healing speed. It's a massive pain playing the game while injured and one guy on the forum complained once that his teammate didn't heal him. And you know the gen speed penalty from working together on a gen? That's kind of a pain. Let's just make Prove Thyself basekit too.
Also it's a PITA having to rely on a teammate for a pallet save. Let's make power struggle basekit and set the recovery percentage to zero.
We can just balance this by making Devour Hope basekit. Make it not a totem anymore. Also start it at 5 stacks. Also, finding survivors at the beginning and them working on generators is annoying. Let's make Corrupt and Lethal basekit too.
We have a perfectly balanced very fun game everyone! Good job! No pesky strategy or teamwork required!
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I feel like the devs are pushing killers to aim for the 12 hooks, I wonder If we will ever see a bse change for camping, although I don't agree with some recent changes it feels like they are less scared to drastically change mechanics this year.
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Actual suggestion to make this fair: Picking yourself up from the ground costs you a hook state.
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If you are playing against survivors who don't pick up a slugged teammate before 45 seconds is up then you don't need to be slugging them at all because they aren't very good.
Good to know that's how you play your nurse, though.
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you guys must decide
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Uh, the difference is someone has to go pick them up. Not doing it themselves. And I only slug situationally.
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So the upside is slugging the third survivor is now meta? I thought that was what survivors hated?
I don't slug for the 4k, but it's nice to know that playing nice is now not only punished but completely invalidated.
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LOL killers gonna be mad coming on here now "MAN I HATE THIS FING GAME, UNINSTALLED"
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Slugging is a valid strategy
Well I guess you folks will have to adapt.
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Why do I have a feeling that Myer's tombstone add-ons are going to get change in the future?
This is going to be interesting when it happens. x3
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If you notice, I haven't mentioned anything about the automatic Mori mechanism. I've only complained about the basekit unbreakable and how the pickup speed is ridiculously fast for how powerful it is.
If you slug all 4 survivors at the same time, sure let's just end the match. No need to wait 4 minutes for the bleedout timer. If your problem is with the 4 minute bleedout after everyone is slugged, then sure give the killer a win.
But this change isn't just a "the game is over if everyone is slugged". This is a basekit way to prevent that situation from ever happening and removing huge parts of killer gameplay and strategy.
Slugging is THE counter to altruistic survivor play. If someone is under a pallet or going for a flashlight save, slugging the person and going after the altruistic survivor is THE play. And it then requires a third survivor to come for the pickup which takes somebody off of a generator. If the survivors leave them slugged to prioritize a generator, then you get two hooks (which a generator for two hooks is usually good for the survivors in my experience). If they go to pick up the slug, you delay the game a bit and prevent a generator from popping.
Now the survivors get both! Just because someone threatened to do a pallet or flashlight save. With the new unbreakable, it's actually a better idea to leave your teammate slugged. There's no reason to get off of your objective to go pick them up. The amount of time spent going to pick them up and the risk of grouping up with your teammates is worse than just leaving them slugged to pick themselves up. It completely removes that aspect of the game.
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Yeah. Anything that makes things a little bit fair is just too much, lol.
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I do think Knock Out needs one small change with this. Make the recovery speed penalty applied while downed instead of the 15 seconds. This way it makes it take longer before the survivor can pick themselves up.
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So... Killers get a stylish way to finish out a game that they've already won and in compensation, Survivors get ANOTHER perk as a basekit ability?
Yeaaaaaaaah. Perfect balance as ever, Balance Team.
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This is absolutely the biggest buff for bully SWFs. Imagine knocking someone to the ground, and immediately hearing a sabotaged hook falling to the ground, and realizing the survivor can pick themselves up before the only hook in range is reformed. Imagine Breakdown creating giant safe havens for survivors, because killers aren’t allowed to leave survivors slugged anymore.
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So I guess it's camp or lose huh? What a fun game.
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Yeah, its because slugging is boring. And Slugging isnt THE counter to altruistic survivor play. Hooktrading is. Slugging has been an issue for 2 years now where its simply too boring. You can spend 32 seconds recovering and never be picked up. Thats horrible game design.
As for picking up teammates, yeah, sure, with Unbreakable its a good idea to leave your teammate slugged. IF the killer slugs. With the way that killrates have been going, the main factor why there is a 39% escape rate is due to slugging. This needs to be closer to 50%. Combatting slugging is THE way to fix that issue.
Does it mean that 3k's are going to be less common? Yeah, definitely. But thats supposed to be like that. Slugging currently gives an unfair advantage. The fix that will be live on PTB will still give killers an advantage, but it will no longer be unfair.
Are there some issues with this? Yeah, in very high MMR there is, but the fix to that would be to increase pick up and hooking animations, and slightly increase movementspeed while carrying a survivor.
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That will be a neat trick, seeing it more than every game.
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Basekit, fine. But 45 seconds and then with Unbreakable and Exponential bringing it down to 11 seconds is to meta. They already gave meta BT basekit with stackable perks. Let's just add another meta basekit to survivors and I'm sure survivors will still complain.
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Don't forget tunneling.
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I'm fine with this change and think it's pretty healthy since I hate being in a match with a killer who just slugs for the 4k and I never really slug when I play killer anyway. That said I do think killers should get something added to their base kit other than the moris, to make hooking slightly easier and encouraged. Maybe a base kit speed increase to their carrying speed or a slight increase in hooking animation. Right now these base kit changes will hunt some killers(mostly twins) and without any help, I see it becoming a slight problem.
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I don't see how it's "good to know" other than the fact that you want to shame him about it next time you see him or something.
These forums lol.
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That just gives survivors a chance to blind/pallet stun you.
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Hook trading is really only employed by bad survivors. It's mostly just a suicide pact and gives the killer a bunch of free pressure and easy chases. It's not good strategy for the survivor unless the person being traded with is about to enter second stage or be sacrificed and there's literally no other choice.
The altruism I'm talking about are pallet saves or other flashlight saves. Slugging is also the primary way of punishing survivors who grouped up on a generator and prioritized it over healing themselves.
If you are never picked up from a slug, it's because your team misplayed massively or you crawled to a corner where the killer couldn't find you so you could try to wiggle out. Playing survivor is a team game.
You might find it boring but I find games involving slugging to be some of the most fun. There's nothing more boring than chasing one survivor, downing them easily, then repeating that while the other 3 survivors stick to generators. Chasing multiple survivors at the same time and interacting with multiple survivors is fun for me.
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This has never been confirmed. They simply said they were working upon some QoL changes.
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BHVR, this the perfect time to create IA killer.
I'm sure it will be perfect like zombies.
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Slugging is the counter though. Against good altruistic survivors they will go down in the open for flashlight saves or near pallets for pallet saves. You can't hook trade if you aren't able to hook and there is where slugging as a counter comes in. With slugging being removed there is no counterplay and swfs just get stronger and stronger.
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My issue with this that it removes the ONE counterplay that killers have when going up against someone with boiled who runs to the top of a map. You literally cannot get them to a hook, so the only option is to slug them and slowly chip away at their downed timer.
BHVR, what counterplay can you provide to replace that? Now anyone with boil on mamy maps will be untouchable by the killer. Are you adding hooks to those locations that are out of the way?
Also, this is giving a tremendous buff to survivors, on top of the tremendous buff to gen speed repairs with hyperfocus being recently added (especially when mixed with stake out). What are killers getting in compensation? The auto-mori only kicks in when the game is over. Survivors getting infinite use less than a minute self pickups directly affect the entire match. With the amount of SWFs out there, slugging is sometimes mandatory when they are all rushing hooks and with flashlights to keep you from hooking.
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you don't, but in almost every game I play as survivor the killer slugs the third survivor for a 4 kill
and I think most of the people here also go through that on a daily basis
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No. Running unbreakable makes the 45s shorter. Peanits confirmed this.
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They said unbreakable reduces the time for self pickup as well.
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I guess my question is "what is the solution to a Survivor being downed at the pallet with a teammate nearby?" What about downed with a nearby flashlight user? Chasing someone else no longer temporarily renders another Survivor busy saving the downed Survivor.
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Nah, maybe 20% of games tops.
They've just butchered an entire facet of the gameplay loop, invalidating any and all interactions with survivors in the
dyingrelaxing state, in order to counter a niche endgame tactic, which is still possible and works even better.There's no reason for other survivors to come to the aid of a survivor in the
dyingrelaxing state any more. That's half of the pressure of slugging gone. Slugging as a pressure tactic is one of the things that makes not camping and tunnelling viable. Have fun being camped even more than you already are.Remember when the last update was meant to make it easier for killers to win without camping and tunnelling but instead it just led to more camping and tunnelling? Yeah, it's that all over again.
Decent killers are being driven away and leaving only the ######### behind.
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Killers will slug for pressure and alot of killers powers are based around slugging or heavily benefit from it, being able to pick urself up from the ground unlimited relieves alot of pressure from the killer and makes it easier for the survivors. I dont think this is a good idea to implement. Please dont implement this. UB as is is already a very strong meta perk and it doesnt need to be basically basekit.
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It's absolutely insane that they didn't think about this. This is already an incredibly obnoxious strategy and it will be used so much more now that there is literally no counter to it.
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39% escape rate
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Next time just make flip flop basekit, so that survivors have a even easier time. Survivor sided update, as always.
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nah, I think you're judging it by the way you play.
not really what happens
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Killers aren't buying time if no one is bothering to use up their team to get them up. They will just continue to work on gens.
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I've only played solo survivor since the last patch.
Killer is no fun any more. It's camp or lose.
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Also, how is the killer supposed to find the last survivor, if the last survivor decides to just hide, because they know the other survivors can pick themselves up before they bleed out? It’s like they are super buffing survivors, and giving killer a reward that the last survivor has massive counterplay for.
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The math in the game is additive, not multiplicitive. That means 200% from 45s is 15s, not 11.25. (45/1.0 = 45s, 45/2.0 = 22.5s, 45/3.0 = 15s)
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Did you miss the part where killers get basekit mori, regardless of hook states?
What's to stop a killer from slugging Survivor A, B and C, and then downing Survivor D which triggers the finisher Mori and ends the trial?
It's easy to see how, without anti-slugging measures in place, you could end up in a very unfun situation.
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These changes are absolutely amazing if this goes live in its current form this'll be the biggest change up since endgame collapse
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for christ's sake, people, boil over isn't even used anymore
there are hooks all over the place, it's so difficult to pull this off, I can't believe you guys are talking about this
be real, tell me how many times have you guys lost a survivor for boil over in the last month?
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Good. Slugging was overpowered and it was very boring to be slugged for a long time while the killer looked for the 4th person.
Killers that abused slugging will have to play the game now and actually hook people.
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