Slugging is now a dead strat!
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Slugging all four players previously was more or less a win for the Killer unless someone had UB. Was it that much of an issue before that something needed to be changed now? What straw does the new mori add that breaks the camel's back in this regard?
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Was
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my dude, if the survivor is actively doing objectives, they can't be too far from the hook so you can't hook them.
it doesn't make any sense, there are 5 generators, you mean to tell me the survivor is always next to a high building AND doing gens to use boil over anytime they want?
I think you're being dishonest.
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BHVR seems to think so. The straw is that the combination of players doesn't matter so long as there is only one who is still up. One can be dead, another on hook and another slugged, and then you've just gotta get that last survivor downed and the trial is over.
While I think that basekit UB isn't a good change, I also think that the new mori isn't a good change either but I don't see BHVR going back to the drawing board on that one so I've accepted that basekit UB is a byproduct of the new mori system.
Personally, I would've just been satisfied with being able to bleed out faster when there's only one other player left as the solution to being slugged for the 4k.
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"The straw is that the combination of players doesn't matter so long as there is only one who is still up. One can be dead, another on hook and another slugged, and then you've just gotta get that last survivor downed and the trial is over."
How is that different to now in practice?
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And I think you don't play the game. The new map, for example, has such a spot in the house. That house is within a short jogs distance from almost every gen.
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Rancor isn't aura reading. It's more like a sound notification except Calm Spirit doesn't block as survivors don't literally scream and just reveal their current position at the time of gen getting finished.
If it was aura reading it would actually be a better perk, because Bitter Murmurs is aura reading for survivors around the completed except if the gen completed was the last one. And Bitter Murmurs has it's uses.
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nah, you didn't answer my question
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I felt this was a necessary change but just having the option to freely do this is kind of bad - The pickup speed should be based on how many hook states you have in the very least so that slugging early on is discouraged but later in the game it's more effective. This way killers don't have less ways to pressure survivors.
Outright trying to terminate this strategy will just funnel killers to a new strategy forcibly until we either make killer unbearable trying to remove bad strategies or we get to a meta that isn't good for the game.
To tl;dr
No hooks - 45 seconds
1 Hook - 60 seconds
2 Hooks - 75 seconds
Just that concept is all
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I dont like how so many perks are becoming basekit, its making it so swfs can literally bring bully the killer builds, and still have the old top tier perks.
All they need now is basekit 3 second DS, and make DS stun for 6 seconds when you bring it.......
Even a 2 man. One guy can focus on just blinding me constantly. One can bring flip flop, unbreakable, tenacity and other perks to bully me and get away from the hook.
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Some clarification information
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RIP Twins, we hardly knew (or saw) you.
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So now every boil over will run to the corner 🙄 and killers are forced to pick up and lose a down they worked for. Terrific
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The survivor still has options. They can potentially wiggle free, they could potentially have DS or, if it's their first hook, deliverance. New Mori takes away those options.
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No one needs to be leaving people on the ground for 45 seconds.
If you left someone slugged for that long and no one on their team got them back up after waiting there fully recovered for the extra time that enables them to get up, then that's on you.
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This is by far the biggest thread I've ever started here, lmao.
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Here is my explanation what is slugging to all survivor.
Slugging is not for delay pick up. It is for split pressure. Which means, one other survivor need to come pick up the down, while killer chase another one. 3 Way Survivor pressure.
Now survivor can just pick themselves up with free perk slot. without requirement for someone to help.
Oh BTW, slugging is high risk too and normally, low mmr or mid mmr killer rarely do that.
Camping, Tunneling, Slugging (Looks like only two strats in high mmr left now. 25% efficiency of tunneling is the way)
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I'm really going to miss sparing the last survivor and letting them open and trek thru the gate while nodding and teabagging thank you.
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well forum have been saying that soloq is unplayable because of tunneling and camping. So with base-kit unbreakable, Survivor can now bodyblock other survivors that are on death hook when they are not hooked.
Base-kit unbreakable is more anti-tunnel put into the base-kit for the survivor. that is my guess for why they did this.
The other reason they did this is because 2 player gameplay scenerio's. Survivors find it unfun to be slugged for 4 minutes when killers are going for 4k due to hatch & exit gate mechanic, so this last man standing highly discourages slugging to get 4k.
In general it also kills 3 man slugging strategies as well.
TL:DR This update is more anti-tunnel put into the survivor base-kit through teamwork.
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I play both sides about evenly though I prefer killer. Only play survivor with my swf group if they log on
This ENTIRE update sounds asinine on both sides and makes both sides sound miserable to play.
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That's just slightly better than yellow Mori, though, in that it only applies to the last Survivor.
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what a garbage, it completely drains away mobility from the game.
you have to stick to one survivior like a bot without ways of applying pressure. I dont care about balance winning/losing but i think it drains away fun. It bonds you to one surv.
also surviviors dont even need to move to pick up a surv, they can stick to gens.
if they have such problembs with dying state they have to delete nurse from the game. other killers cant apply this amount of pressure. if they are able to hold 4 survs on the ground this is a survivior`s mistake
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With unbreakable it is 22 seconds. There are plenty of situations where you either cannot pick someone up in that time, or doing so would put you at a huge disadvantage.
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This is really good news. It lets me know they are listening to players. I felt the same way when they made the mori change awhile back. I have long said that if a survivor is left on the ground for a certain amount of time then they should be able to pick themselves up. It just feels like it should be a natural part of the game. It'll encourage killer players to play the game as intended and focus more on objectives rather than trolling.
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I find it amusing how the argument is "How come the killer didn’t pick up for 45s" as if:
- 45s isn’t a short time to chase other nearby survivors, down (2.7s), pick up (3s), carry (1-15/16s), hook (1.5s), and then come back for the slug if the survivors are even remotely decent at the game
- As if Unbreakable will be uncommon when it’s an infinitely reusable 22.5s self pickup
- And this rewards the survivor for getting downed by the killer by another survivor/unhookable area/etc even though no one on their team came to pick them up
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I'm more sad that they completely killed Rancor over these changes, it's lost all of it's identity. What the hell man.
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when you pick a surv TENSION IS LOST. The most fun part of the game is when 1 is in dying state, gen is almost done, 2-3 survs trying to repair gen and heal a surv.
Or one is in dying state, you follow another. Stakes are high, You can get 2 hooks or you can lost both of them.
with this dumb chage tension will be deleted from the game. stakes will be deleted from the game. This will be a boring mechanical process of following one surv and hooking him.
and i repeart AFTER PICKING UP SURV TENSION IS LOST
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I totally agree
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Hmm not sure. They are fixing issues, but they are seeing it the wrong way. Mainly killers who slug don’t just slug because they are toxic. There many reasons killers do that. Play as killer you’ll see.
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This is a very good thing. Both sides get good things. But I have a feeling that the killers will complain about it just as they complained about PTB Reassurance. Slugging has always been a cheap tactic, so it's good that there is a solution to it now. If it actually makes it into the game, that is.
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Yeah im tired of getting my time wasted with slugging
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"I have long said that if a survivor is left on the ground for a certain amount of time then they should be able to pick themselves up. It just feels like it should be a natural part of the game. It'll encourage killer players to play the game as intended and focus more on objectives rather than trolling."
I think is natural part of game for survivors to pick up their comrade rather than doing idk what. Killer does not hold surv on the ground with pistol. Usualy he chases other survivolrs. Where is is trolling ?
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Good
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Survivors get one of their strongest perks base kit, only infinite now. Killers get a little animation when they win. How are these comparable.
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45 seconds is a long time. Unbreakable (the perk) will only increase the time it takes to recover and probably half that 45 seconds. (So around 35-25 seconds) which still isn't a lot. And assuming that Unbreakable can only be used one time like it is currently, the next time a survivor gets downed would still be 45 seconds. So really, it's not that strong.
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That's a very big if. They literally say that the pick yourself up time is reduced by unbreakable, and they have not said anything about unbreakable disabling itself after it is used once. Regardless of how powerful it is killers get something that is only a little cosmetic animation at the end of the game while survivors get another power increase.
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what is good about deleting tensions and risk from the game? I dont want to play like a bot. I want fun game process with risk and fun. Now i will have to pick up every survivior and hook him instead of going for risk.
what was the pont of crying about camping,tunneling for years and in the end crippling if AN ENTEIRE DIFFERENT SIDE of the game? Slugging and tunneling/camping are on different side of a coin.
tunneling/camping is a safe strategy. You dont go for a team, you kill one and get advantage. You do not risk. You do not leave hook. You do not follow others. You focus one player.
Now you boosted camping/tunneling and safe/boring strategies.
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Technically its a nurse buff to boot, since she's one of the only killers who are likely to snowball a 4 hit combo (using her most busted builds) in less than 45 seconds, let alone 22.5. So if she manages to pull it off, she doesn't even need to give anyone a chance to pick themselves up or wiggle or anything. She just chain assassinates everyone like some PS2 Shinobi nonsense.
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Nothing is kinda left. Reassurence makes sure camping is not worth it or only for a trade with nearly all gens getting done. Tunneling with BT and OTR means you have to hit them 2 times again every time they get unhooked. As long as survivors abuse these strategies and play coordinated, they will get 3man escape every time.
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That implies that a killer can down 4 survivors in 45 seconds. For that to happen, you'd need max stacks on STBFL, and for each survivor to make the maximum amount of mistakes possible in a chase, and all of that needs to happen in 45 seconds before the first survivor downed gets back up. And that's not even taking into account the cooldown for a killers successful attack, a survivors sprint burst after being hit, pallets, windows, and any other shenanigan that might happen during four consecutive chases.
So NO, its is most definitely "easy" for such a thing to happen. I'd even go as far as saying its next to impossible.
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True, but nurse needs a full rework anyways. At a fundamental level she is just broken and unhealthy for the game.
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As someone who actually kinda disagrees with that statement, she is certainly a great example of why you would feel that way, she represents how unchecked things get, just as much as the potential of swf over solo. She's one of the only reasons the game is even balanced by averages, and situations like her's pair perfectly with how much exploitation the basekit ub change is going to create. They just can't handle the extremes at either side, but at least there are opposites.
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The problem was there were a lot of killer mains who did it just to be toxic. Downing a survivor before this would give the killer too much advantage if they left that survivor on the ground. Now killers are encouraged to not over extend their slug plays. If a killer slugged 2 survivors they gain a big control advantage over the match because it forces excessive altruism. Now they have to play around the limited time instead of gaining a long term advantage. This is a much needed balance change.
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now killers are encoraged to pick up any surv because if they leave him he rises up. Now they wont go for chases and will play defensive and just try hook as fast as possible. While you have to promote risky play, mobility they promote safe play. They promote boring play.
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ITS TIME TO TUNNEL IN EVERY GAME.
We will see no strategy, no thinking, nothing.
Post edited by EQWashu on3 -
If this change is just for the "slugging for 4K"-Thing....
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In a weird way, i almost want to blame that one person who kept making topics complaining that the killer always gives hatch to the other survivor. He got his wish.
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As annoying as slugging can be, it's a viable strat for many killers who's power pretty much depends on slugging to get more value out of it. As a survivor main, im not a fan either.
These changes are really disappointing alongside with the automatic mori, they take away many things from matches that can give players fun and adrenaline rush.
Clutch adrenaline popping when killer closes hatch? No more.
Clutch unhooks/deliverance plays when all players are getting hooked? No more.
Clutch unbreakable/power struggle plays when all players are down? No more.
Killers deciding to give hatch to last survivor in a friendly exchange? (Something i love doing!) No more.
Giving survivors who have it rough once i downed them all? No more.
Rancor + Nemesis plays? No more.
Photobombing moris? No more.
Knockout+ deerstalker? What even is the point of these perks now!
A fun factor of this game is the unexpected clutch plays that can happen, from both sides, these changes take it away and with that, the fun.
Complete non sense from the devs with this update, extremely disappointed that they even thought of these changes, would love to see this energy in fixing frame rate issues each time a player does as much as breathing on console.
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rancor has been finally nerfed lol, reasoning seems a little off though...
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Not even just downing them. Tunnel one survivor out, have 1 on first hook, down the last two survivors and game automatically ends. There's no way they could release this without basekit Unbreakable. That scenario above is like 3-4 hooks before game ends. Imagine how much more desirable slugging would become over hooking.
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