Slugging is now a dead strat!
Comments
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I dont care about the mori changes i think the moris are fine as is now or they should change them so that wont be the case so UB doesnt have to be basekit.
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What's to stop killers doing that?
Basekit Unbreakable.
You can basically only pull that off if you're playing Nurse/Blight.
The basekit Mori isn't a buff, because it only applies to the last survivor you've downed. If you're even getting to that point, you've already won anyway. It doesn't help you win, it just gives you a fancy animation when you do win.
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Body is 1 character too short.
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If the survivors are bad enough that every single one is able to be downed in less than 45 seconds then they kind of deserve the loss.
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MFW I accidentally down an identical survivor that got unhooked and I don’t wanna tunnel so I slug them, but now I’ll get punished for not immediately tunneling and rehooking them.
.-.
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I would argue that this is only marginally better than yellow Mori, which was a meme offering. Pretty close to a QoL boost at best, if you ask me.
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Nah, it’s not awful at all, just ensures the game is as fun for everyone as it is for the killer, now you will just have to be more aware things you do, and to top it off no longer taking away a chance at hatch for the survivor!
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Boil over is still used quite a bit. If a survivor goes to a high point on a map or a dead zone, because some maps have areas with next to no hooks it is VERY easy for the survivor to get off, not to mention survivors get an offering that allows them to create dead zones. If this change goes through there is absolutely zero reason hooks should disappear upon sacrifice.
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You do realize each of those killers have more than enough time to reach the grounded Survivor to pick them up within the 45s timeframe? If someone picks themselves up quicker you make a mental note "Ash" has UB and don't slug him next time to snowball, or down him last. Sorry easy wins won't be as easy, but the first 6 killers you mentioned already have an easy enough time of it. Also if you do complete the 4 man slug you still insta-win going into the Finisher Mori.
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"After being left on the ground for 45 seconds, Survivors will now gain the ability to pick themselves up without the need of any Perks. This time is affected by recovery speed effects."
re-read the last sentence there
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well get ready for even longer 4k slugging session while the killer is chasing the last 2 survivors around and not hooking either of them
well that's already buying time. a survivor is disabled for 45 seconds, while the killer is currently playing against fewer survivors. If they work on gens, that's good. That's their job, and killer's job to find the rest also. I would for example slug one and hook the second downed. Time is a resource.
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Against good players and obviously those in teams this will be quite hard to counter as killer.
If people are coordinated and smart enough to use flashlights or sabotage hooks the killer will struggle. Also if you down someone at a pallet now it could potentially be impossible to hook them before they pick themselves up if you’re having to chase people away so they can’t drop it on you.
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Right? Like killer mains who complained about survivors throwing games don’t understand BHVR *also* did this to prevent survivors for trying to get out of matches by failing hook escapes. Now those survivors are somewhat forced to remain in the match if the killer doesn’t hook them. And many of those killers were saying they’d bleed out survivors to keep them in the match anyway.
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Breakdown covers 3m per hook, and sabos only cover 30/45s. You can pick someone up, drop them and wait till 29/44s and still get the hook. Breakdown is more than obvious enough if the Killer is lingering in the area as they will see the hook is gone when they returned. Also if they are sabo-ing they aren't working on gens, and are in the danger range for you to get an injury or force a pallet. Sabo squads are my favorite Survivors to face since they are taking a risk-reward action against me. Hiding survivors split on gens are far more annoying as it will slowly win them the game.
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I have a few problems with this coming into the game this will make high level play even harder for killer number 1 against swfs. Number 2 certain killers will be very bad with this change that comes in like twins and oni etc. the time should be longer and what otz said was good make the hook animation quicker for killer and give um quicker speed bring a survivor to a hook 🤷🏻♂️
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Isn't that less time bought than just hooking the Survivor, though? At least then, a second Survivor has to go in for the rescue (assuming no kobe). With slugging, no one has to get off the gen.
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I see it once every 5 matches or so. It's not remotely rare.
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It is, but it is also in no way just more nerfs to killers which is more what I was getting at with my response. On the one hand, it's 45 seconds without perks. On the other, without it there would be nothing to stop killers from ending the trial at 5 gens if they wanted to.
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Base kit buffed Unbreakable I would argue is a net nerf. Yellow mori base kit is not on equal level to base kit Unbreakable.
Also, how does a Killer end the trial at 5 gens compared to now?
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show me the recipits
boil over isn't even in the top 10 most used perks, it's behind even selfcare and self-care is sitting at 11%.
how is it boil over used quite a bit?
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You still bought yourself basekit 45s.
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and how many times have you lost a survivor to boil over in those matches if you had to guess?
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probably really depends on the playstyle. for example I slug which I consider buying time in case I'm well aware where some or most of the rest of the survivors are, which helps me chase and down sooner. If I don't know where the others are or they are quite far away, I just hook the downed survivor.
Well I have been playing quite a bit Onryo lately and after downing (provided that I knew where some of the others are) I teleported to them and attacked the next one. Which is still faster than wasting time with hooks before I down somebody else who I know where he is. After hooking I will see what happens with the first slugged one (or if 45 seconds wore out and got up).
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In what circumstances would slugging now lead to more time bought than hooking?
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It was dead from long ago... There was no need to bring anti sluggin in 2022. The devs thinks we are in 2020 😂
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If you have to worry about such things, then you most likely will not even get to level 5 devour hope.
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Maybe 30% of the time. They are the ones who just high-tail it to a second or third floor. Even if you down them, you literally can't get to a hook. You have to leave them slugged. Theres no counterplay to these kinds of survivors in chase. The percentage would be higher, but it's very map dependant.
As for the other 70%, those are people who just use the perk for...well frankly I don't know why. Those aren't a problem unless there's a body blocker, but that's just part of the game.
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Bad AND Altruistic survivors.
As for pallet and flashlight saves, eh, not really that altruistic. Its standard gameplay, if you're nearby or in need of stuns/saves for archives, its very selfish. In full SWF's its altruistic, but thats a very small amount of players.
As for playing survivor being a team game, thats kinda the issue: There is no comms, no pings, no aura's on where your teammates are, no info on how far a generator is progressed while someone else is on it. Survivors are a team untill they are about to die, then they are on their own. If you are never picked up as a slug, yeah, your team misplayed, but YOU are being punished, not your team.
As for chasing multiple survivors and wanting to slug, there currently isnt really any perks to slow down self-recovery other than Knock-out, and even that one is very minor. The reason for this is due to there being no self-pick up.
I am almost guaranteeing that Rancor or Bitter Murmur is going to affect self-recovery. Because they are too similar right now with Rancor no longer having the instakill. Other than that, I can even see Haemorrhage and Mangled affecting self-recovery now because of the self-pickup.
So honestly, dont worry about that part too much. Worst case scenario, chasing multiple survivors isnt gonna be viable for a short time. Which is honestly not too bad. I mean, survivors have been forced to watch their teammate hide or get killed for 4 minutes while they bled out. Chasing survivors 1 at a time is nowhere near that horrible. Less fun, sure, but still a better temporary option. Preferrably, they will merge Bitter Murmur and Rancor into one of the perks, while the other gets a rework so you have a 20% slow on self-recovery on downed survivors. Giving you plenty of time to end the chase, pick up the first survivor and be on time for the other one too.
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Not really, you're assuming that the changes mentioned remain the same untill they go live. I can practically assure you that Rancor will be reworked. Let alone that things like Mangled could also afflict self-recovery now.
Why do you think that the only perk afflicting self-recovery, knock out, only reduces it by 15% right now? Because it would be overkill if it was less. Slugged survivors already take forever to pick themselves up, if they have the right perks, no need to slow that down further. I mean, sure, Pentimento has 30%, but whenever a killer gets 3 stacks of Pentimento, they are on their way to light the other 2 totems.
So really, I am certain that either Rancor will be reworked to slow down self-recovery, or that Mangled will affect it.
The logic comes down to if you are able to slug for longer than 45 seconds, you can also hook survivors and not lose pressure.
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If you pick someone up and drop them, and they can crawl even farther away from the hook, especially if they have tenacity.
The problem with breakdown is if it creates a hook dead zone, then survivors can go there as a safe haven where they killer can’t hook them, and they can pick themselves up.
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so
- it's very map dependent
- it has a less than 10% pick rate
- the survivor using it usually does nothing in the game other than run to high places
- in YOUR gameplay 70% of the time boil over is useless
yeah, boil over isn't going anywhere still
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Here you go
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Wow baby killers, the counter is so easy... just hook the survivor! There, no basekit unbreakable! Besides, 45s is an eternity compared to the 0.5 seconds that hacking survivors are getting up in
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Because I literally see it at least once every 5 games? Just because you don't use it doesn't mean it isn't used.
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Doesn't it also slow recovery time? Could extend the pick up time as well.
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where are the numbers tho?
if it appears every 5 games, it must have a high pick rate, but it's never been mentioned since it's last nerf
less than than 10% pick rate, something is off here
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If they go down near a pallet, and another survivor is near? You need to run the risk of a pallet stun. If you go after the nearby survivor, the slug picks themselves up. You just lost pressure.
If you down a survivor, and somebody sabos the nearby hook?
Body blocking will now become even more powerful, as you can't just leave the slug to give chase.
The reason slugging was so powerful was because it gave the killer pressure. Now, with only 22 seconds into a free pickup, that's gone.
At the very least, bleedout timers should be decreased. If you can pick yourself up every 22 seconds, drop that timer down to two minutes or something.
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How often to do really think the new mori will happen? Do you really think a bit more FoV will help the killer find a survivor that is hiding 60 meters away, especially if they have perks like sole survivor or low profile? The killer only has 22.5 seconds to find and knock down the last survivor, if one of the slugged survivors has unbreakable. The last survivor can hide the entire time, because they have zero reason to travel to the slugged survivors.
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Me running shadowborne and getting to last person standing.
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oh then i think it might be a bit too strong ? in certains maps i can definitly see Twins taking more than 22 secs to get to a downed survivor.
What if "Unbreakable" gained speed recovery per other survivor downed, making it work in the same way Felix's perk "Desperate Measures" work ? Could be like 25% for each injured up to 75%. Would be a way to tune down the perk while still making it usable for survivors.
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I'm much more concerned about:
- Twins.
- Double locker flashlights (the only realistic counterplay is slugging).
- Spots on the map where survivors can go down and be impossible to pick up.
- Survivor teams turning some maps into hook deserts with sabos. Midwich, Eyrie and a handful of others can be almost impossible to hook on if you get janky spawns and they sabo, as it is.
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If the auto-mori triggers on downing the last survivor I don’t think slugging 4 survivors in 45 seconds is the situation to worry about. Hooking 2 survivors and trying to slug the 2 remaining as quickly as possible seems the more likely response. Initial uninformed hot take is this feels like a bit of a buff to killer.
On the other hand, slugging is my go to tool when facing a coordinated flashlight/pallet/head-on saving squad so I guess I’ll just go farm some wall breaking bps those matches so they’re not a total wash. Kind of a shame - those matches I usually let someone wiggle free, revive everyone, and we proceed to meme it up the rest of the game.
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Speaking of FoV, I can’t wait to see how many blinks I’ll botch with the Last Standing FoV increase, because it will screw up my blink depth perception.
I guess some Nurse players will just have to make it their mission to slug the 3rd survivor as much as possible, so they can get used to the new blink depth perception?
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Lol that thread is funny killer mains in shambles.. it's ok just HOOK, no more obnoxious slugging for 4k, quicker endgame for everyone, no more 4 min on ground for no reason, it's a good change stop immediately crying and wait for PTB, just adapt like survivors did after 6.1
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All that's left is to give survivor baseline Self-Care really.
I mean why even bother to play killer. Well, I still will, but I can smell the trash games from a mile away.
Honestly? I don't like that "Last Stand" thing at all. It would've been simpler to make the Cypress mori baseline, boom. And leave the other two moris as they are.
You've just given survivors even MORE weapon and their hands were already full of them.
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If they are crawling without Tenacity they cannot recover. That buys you crawl time +45s, you can leave them slugged and go for the saboteur. Also that forces minimum 2 people to not be doing gens, potentially a third if they want to pickup/assist the sabo-ing.
Breakdown only causes a hook deadzone if you relied on hooking in a corner. If they comp-cornered you can either slug and move on or chase the other person. They are also on a timer so you know they will pick themselves back up in basekit 45s. You can reslug them if you have the mobility. It won't take as long since edges of maps don't have things to loop with.
I understand wanting to prevent abuse cases, but this is so hyper specific that it just sounds like you don't care to put forth the effort to think of counters yourself. Also with all things this game the best method for fighting it is using it and finding its flaws. I thought Wesker was too oppressive then I played as him enough to make a Wesker cry falsely thinking I had speedhacks. The 1st dash without the 2nd loses so much distance and drops bloodlust that if you force Wesker to use 1 Dash without a viable 2nd you can loop them forever. Play with and against things you have an issue with and you will find a counter.
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The finisher mori ends the trial as soon as the last man standing is downed. That means no DS, no 4% when all hope at being rescued is lost, no chance at wiggling free.
It doesn't happen often enough for it to be a problem, but there have been killers who've gone on a slugging spree with knockout and just bled all 4 survivors out. To end the trial at 5 gens in the current version without hook states would require doing exactly that.
It's 45 seconds without perks. If it takes you more than 45 seconds to decide to hook someone, they've more than earned the right to pick themselves back up.
Again, though, this isn't a nerf to killers. I'd argue that 45 seconds is a little low, but as this feature is not going to be in the upcoming update and is merely a preview, there should be plenty of time to appropriately voice concerns and provide feedback that isn't just "Us vs Them".
While what killers got is easily inferior to what survivors are getting, that doesn't make it a nerf to killers. That just makes it unbalanced.
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You don't understand, none of things matter to a survivor who "just wants to have fun" (tm) so they don't matter.
The FoV adjustment at the end is absolutely tonedeaf to the accessibility argument surrounding it as well, makes a real nice extra touch.
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Double locker flashlights.
Spots on maps where it's impossible to pick survivors up.
Maps where a single sabo makes an area unhookable.
How exactly do you counter this without slugging?
Also - Twins.
See above.
Sometimes, you have to slug.
That said:
Nah. Killers are in a pretty good position now, and this change is positive. I hope that it's coupled with fixes to the above though.
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“you can always just slug and move on” isn’t counterplay.
And honestly, I really don’t care about the number of people that aren’t doing generators. I care about the number of people that are doing generators. if two people are doing generators uninterrupted, then I don’t care if the other two survivors aren’t doing generators.
And the problem is with tenacity, where they can crawl, and self pickup within 23 seconds. If I mention a problem with tenacity, you can’t just say that it’s fine because they might not be using tenacity. How does that even make sense as a response?
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