Frustrated P100 Sadako Main.

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MechWarrior3
MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
edited March 9 in Feedback and Suggestions

I have had a lot of time to think about this, I have gone through and seen all the changes and tried my best to adapt.

Before I mention my thoughts, briefly, I understand there are other killers in the roster that need to be tended to, and they should be priority. Sadako has had her chance few times so we can come back to this but I want people to know what I’m thinking and feeling. Especially behavior.

Reworks are important sure, but not changing the character from what we paid for. (Trickster, Sadako, Freddy, Skull Merchant)

I have over 2000 hours in this killer. Here are my thoughts and frustrations.

Against low MMR survivors, this killer breezes through them, because they don’t know how TVs work. If I am playing against decent MMR survivors or high MMR survivors, may the odds forever be in my favor.

Behaviour you’ve done amazing work! However, please 🙏🏼 Tapes must be “cursed” OG tapes must return. I’m all for my TVs getting shut off but please they need to be reminded this is a curse! Otherwise counter play is too easy.


1) Tv spawns are not ideal. This affects her ability to condemn. (I shouldn’t have to bring an offering to make it better.)

2) Survivors pre run due to the Visual Terror Radius. Defeats the purpose of being a stealth killer. (Keep lullaby)

3) Survivors Counterplay is too easy. TVS are constantly off. No condemn, which means no slowdown mechanic, and no mobility. 2 aspects of her power out the door. (Wellstone addon. 6 seconds of 70? Isn’t gonna cut it)

4) Tapes need to be a threat again. (OG Sadako.) This will at least buy me some slowdown. Tapes need to slowly build condemn like they use to. This was a very unique feature that got removed and it made me so sad. It’s like playing pig, slappin a trap on someone’s head but saying “Ha!! No timer!”

5) Please bring passive condemn tapes back. Survivor grabs tape. Tv is off. No condemn stack granted. Passive condemn now grows for holding onto the tape. (This goes with point 4. Just trying to break it up.)

6) Tape insertion is 1 second. That’s steep. 1.5 is healthier. There’s very little counter play for her against survivors on this. (I could be wrong but It use to be 3 seconds for inserts)

7) Addons - After 2 addon passes I really thought there would have been more balance changes than this. 


*Clump of hair needs a numbers buff or base kit. The main issue though with selecting this addon is that Survivors know you’re coming due to the visual heart beat.


*Distorted Photo is good but the issue is a survivor has to “Witness” you manifesting to take effect. Very annoying. Which means you’ll rarely get value out of it.


*Mothers Mirror - needs to be base kit. New effect needs to be added to it.


*VCR - is useless. They know which TV you are coming out of due to the auras. 


*Tape editing deck - this is built on the old design that I love. In its current version it’s useless. Seeing their aura after putting in a tape is poo, they’ve cleansed. The tape is gone and now I get to see their aura for it? It’s a slap in the face.

Yoichis fishing net. Bring back old effect. (We don’t need 2 blindness addons. Sea soaked cloth and this one)

Rickety Pinwheel and Seasoak cloth punish you if you use your power. You no longer have an addon. (These 2 addons should be merged into green, and the addon would be better if it still worked while the tv was off)

Thank you so much for those that read this, and have supported me since I have started my journey out of the well. Honorable mention @jonifire helped me get my thoughts organized and he too has some of his own thoughts on the topic but if we are in this to improve overall quality for everyone to make it the best experience possible, we have to finish the rework we started. Please. 🙏🏼

Post edited by MechWarrior3 on
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Comments

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,208
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    Agreed. Admittedly I do very well against even coordinated teams on Sadako but the downsides are pretty glaring and you hit the nail on the head.

    Heck, if they made tapes cursed again I'd even be fine with the lullaby/visual IF it only appeared when holding a tape.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
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    I would agree 💯 my friend! Thank you for taking the time out of your day to show some support and being here. It truly means so much to me. 🙏🏼❤️

  • jonifire
    jonifire Member Posts: 1,437
    edited March 8
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    Almost one year ago Sadako/Onryo got reworked (sadly).

    @MechWarrior3‘s and my’s hope is that we get her OG version back at the anniversary exactly one year after the first rework. Therefore we want to give some ideas.

    In her first version the biggest problem was the cooldown of the TVs (and in some cases slugging). With the changes to her cooldown she would have been alone a lot stronger and with the change to ring drawing, the slugging would also have gotten lesser. Her first version would be a so cool killer with all those buffs she got (faster speed while mainfasting; longer speed boost after the teleport; longer flicker; cooldown reduction; no pallet stun while demanifasted; lock in stacks)

    Our main problem with her current version and the last rework is/was that survivors are constantly encouraged/ have to turn off TVs, which makes her gameplay very frustrating, because you can‘t teleport to a TV near a survivor. This gets to another extrem of frustration, when you encounter survivors, who know how to play against her. In the end this killer is only good against survivors, who don‘t know what do do and against everyone else you got bad chances. Also her global/all Tv condemned is a problem, because it is too overwhelming for new players and the fact that she will most likely only appear once every 30-50+games, makes it difficult to learn her for many. The first version was the simplest and fairest for both sides in my opinion.

    Instead of reworking her you should only...and leave the rest.

    • change tapes back to give one stack by holding a tape every 25s
    • remove the Tv auras (except of the one Tv, where you have to put your tape), currently this makes her chase even weaker than it already is
    • apply condemned in a radius of 16m around one Tv (another solution/idea if you want to buff condemned; would be to apply condemned based around the proximity to the one Tv for example 24-16m 0,5stacks; 16-8m 1stack; 8-0m 2 stacks)
    • remove the 1 stack trade for turning off a TV
    • revert the tape insertion speed back to 2s or at least 1,5s

    Addon changes:

    • Iri videotape: Just give it the old effect of turning TVs back on back
    • Ring drawing: Leave the bugged version like it is, but write the healing effect back into the description
    • Reikos watch: Return it back to 50% or 33%
    • Cabin sign and Well stone should both reduce the cooldown for TVs turning back on regardless of the Onryo deactivating the tv through a teleport or the survivors turning them off and they need a number buff
    • Clumb of hair needs a number buff
    • Sea soaked cloth and Rickety pinwheel should be made one addon and the range needs to be increased or they need a new effect
    • Rickety pinwheel could also hide the lullaby + range increase
    • Yoichis fishing net: Return to faster passive condemned gain
    • Telephone and distorted phote should be made one addon and one should get a new effect
    • Mothers mirror should get a new effect like maybe spirits passive phasing

    Addon ideas:

    • faster switching between both forms
    • one that affects or removes her lullaby
    • Meme addon: you get haste after going through survivors


    Just some ideas:

    • You can lock in all stacks, but through holding a tape one locked in stack becomes a normal stack every time you get a passive condemned stack or after you removed all not locked in stacks, you can remove with each tape delivery one stack
    • survivors can crawl through her TVs and get into the Tv world and can use it as some type of fast travel like in haunted by daylight event, but without loops and the Onryo gets a notification
    • I don‘t know how to write this, but the video shows it: https://youtube.com/shorts/MJio7nsFAX0?si=C3MXVry1oqFk5O4l


    I know, that there are a lot of other killers, who should get their help first. It just feels so bad, that Sadako a killer, who didn‘t need a rework got completely changed into something different and I really liked the killer before even if she was weaker. Please keep in mind for future reworks, that not everyone wants a complete new/ different version of a killer, most just want buffs.

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
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    It's so unfortunate that Pig getting constant nerfs was replaced now by Onryo getting all these weird reworks that miss the mark.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
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    Thank you my friend for your thoughts and your time that you put into this. I really appreciate you and your support. Means a lot! You have great detail and depth! You already know I enjoy your ideas.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
    edited March 8
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    Indeed. What blows my mind is pigs traps vs onyro with her OG tapes. They never should’ve taken that away. Imagine traps without a timer….⏱️


    thank you for taking the time to write. ✍️ means a lot to me. You could be doing anything else but you chose to support me. Thank you 🙏🏼❤️

  • jonifire
    jonifire Member Posts: 1,437
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    I just don‘t understand why they keep reworking her instead of returning her to her fair first version, which was far more fun.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
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    💯….i get it takes some “figuring out” of course and she could be a challenge but please. It doesn’t have to be this hard.

  • jonifire
    jonifire Member Posts: 1,437
    edited March 8
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    I agree with everything even when I don‘t mind 1 and 2 too much. I also think they won‘t return passive condemned back as long as there is a need to grap tapes constantly. Sadly more addons got useless through her reworks than better.

    Thank you for all of your support.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
    edited March 8
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    But they should add passive condemn back exactly for that reason. Grab a take, counter me sure, but here is what we are not going to do, we are not going to hold onto that tape forever.

    The passive condemn will discourage them from doing that, and provide me a little slowdown WITHOUT being too oppressive like the “hit tape, destroy it and 2 stacks of condemn” but currently we have nothing. Went from 100 to 0


    Anytime, my friend, it’s entirely my pleasure :-)

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 2,263
    edited March 8
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    I don't disagree with anything here, but your suggested changes are a little unclear, as they are mixed in with your discussing her issues. Your list of changes as best as I can figure are: -

    1. Improve TV spawns - Agreed. ✔️consistency is good if possible.
    2. Remove Lullaby to prevent visual lullaby radius from revealing her - Not so convinced. ✖️ Agreed for gameplay... though her creepy audio is really cool and on point for the character... I'd like ideas on how to keep her creepy lullaby in the game... Maybe instead of removing it, making it really large like 48m, so you can't really tell where she is or if she's coming to you or not? I dunno, open to ideas.
    3. Lower the cooldown? Buff Welstone add-on? - Dunno what you mean here. ... it's not in your add-ons section... so I dunno what you mean here.
    4. Tapes with passive condemn - Agreed. ✔️ what rate though, considering Sadako can teleport 3 times in 15 seconds for 3 stacks, this can't be too strong. (I can't find the original value anywhere :S)
    5. Tapes again? See above. ❌
    6. Tape insertion 1.5s - Agreed. ✔️1 second is a kinda bonkers fast.
    7. Addons:
    • Clump of Hair/Mother's Mirror - Not so keen in conjunction with (2)✖️ If her lullaby is going and she is getting her condemn pressure back... should her stealth be getting much stronger? As someone wIthout the Visual Terror radius it's quite hard to see her coming or work out where she's coming from. I'd feel happier with one or the other.
    • VCR - Agreed ✔️ Make the aura part of the add-on too?
    • Tape Editting Deck - Agreed ✔️Perhaps leave the TV on for 5 seconds after it's been turned off? That'd be cool.


    I think it's also worth thinking about mutli story maps like Gideon or Midwich, where it's stupidly hard to keep condemn off you. Perhaps an elevation effect might be worth considering?

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
    edited March 8
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    First off, I want to thank you for your thoughts and your support, allow me to help make things a little more clear. Thank you again for your message. 🙏🏼❤️

    2) Don’t remove lullaby. This is not my suggestion, however it doesn’t need to show up on the VTR.

    3) Buff wellstone. An addon that reduces the cooldown when a survivor shuts off a tv. 📺

    4) Original value was 1 stack upon taking the tape. Every 25 seconds 1 stack of condemn was created. They can increase it to every 30 seconds but it needs to be there.

    Tape editing deck I agree but if they bring back OG tapes, this would apply to this addon so shutting off the tv as soon as they take it to the furthest tv away would be best. I like your idea.

    Thank you again for everything ❤️

    (I edited a bit my original post)

  • jonifire
    jonifire Member Posts: 1,437
    edited March 8
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    I don‘t think, that as long as we have all TV condemned, she will get good changes in that regard and I also just want her first version.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
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    If that’s what it takes then I am okay with the other TVs not delivering condemn. That’s where your suggestion comes in.

  • Ohyakno
    Ohyakno Member Posts: 428
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    She is so, so easy to fix though. This thread is brimming with good, easy and balanced tweaks that would make her feel much better to play.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
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    I 💯 agree! Thank you so much for your comment. I appreciate your support :-)

  • RamenBearVt
    RamenBearVt Member Posts: 1
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    I agree with Mech, I'm new to Sadako but I've been playing for a few years now and she's changed so much that it's confusing towards newer players and frustrating towards older players. Going against her, newer/lower MMR survivors tend to not know what to do, I would say I fall along that line somewhere because I just go and turn off all the tvs on the map. When I'm playing her, I don't really get value from my tapes, only my perks. And when I look around, all of my tvs are turned off and there's no repercussion for survivors doing that. I personally like the tvs to mostly move across map fast as heck but I also know they're supposed to be there for a greater purpose that I'm not really seeing because they all get turned off anddddd it takes one second to do that..which kinda sucks lol. But overall, she's a great character and addition to the game and it's sad she got kinda nerfed to this state. Would love to see original Sadako especially so I can try her out hehe!😄❤️

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
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    Very well said, my friend, I’m glad you’re enjoying the character! I would love for you to be able to see the original version of herself just with today’s updates that they have given her.


    Thank you for taking the time out of your day to show some support and love on the thread, I really appreciate that a lot! 🥰 see you in the fog!

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,396
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    I think consistency is fine, TV's spawns could be better.

    Just make the Lullaby bigger. The bigger the Lullaby, the less sure the Survivors are of your position.

    Wellstone could go up to 10 seconds, it's a Yellow Add-on after all.

    The passive rate on the Tapes would have to be very low, she can machine gun TP now. Maybe the Tapes could just dissolve after a certain amount of time? It'd prevent just holding a Tape and being immune.

    1.5 is probably fine for Tape Insertion.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 6,723
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    my problem is that current sadako has none of old sadako strengths and none of sadako 2.0 strengths. It is like character was specifically changed to erase 1.0 strength and 2.0 strengths and only given exploitable weaknesses.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
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    I like your thoughts. 💭🥰🙏🏼 thank you so much, my friend! It really means a lot.. I’m not going to lie. I got a little nervous when I saw your name pop up, PTSD. 🤣🤣🤣

    Thank you again for taking the time out of your day to do this

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
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    I have been expecting you :-)

    Very good to see you! Thank you for your thoughts!

  • jonifire
    jonifire Member Posts: 1,437
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    Completely agree. It‘s just sad, that you rely on people misplaying.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
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    You worded that perfectly, misplaying. That’s exactly what it is.

  • Th3Nightmare
    Th3Nightmare Member Posts: 1,263
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  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 2,263
    edited March 9
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    Good stuff! Cheers for the clear up!

    In that case, I don't really have any objections. The tape condemn build up sounds a little high in conjunction with the global TP effect. The main concern would be if condemn is too good, Sadako will go back to aligging for it again...

    My worry is a new player will quickly get smashed with condemn if they don't grab a tape, and there are also concerns for certain maps where her condemn build up can be absurb, namely Gideon and alike.

    In conjunction with your changes, how would you feel about: -

    • Tapes grant a slow build up of condemn at a rate of 1 condemn every 25s.
    • Any survivor within 16m range of a powered TV when Sadako teleports to another TV grants 0.5 stacks of condemn.
    • Any survivor within 16m range of the TV Sadako telports to gains 1 stack of condemn. Survivors of different elevations will only get 0.5 condemn.

    This would hopefully curb some of the oppression she has against low level survivors by giving a bigger buffer to grab a tape before it starts getting crazy. It obviously makes her less destructive on certain maps, and it also make the choice to grab a tape actually meaningful... it is probably in your interest to grab a tape, but doing so will mean you have to start moving to deal with it, so turning it off or not is not quite so binary a choice.

    This also makes her lock in a little more meaningful, because each lock in (even if it's just 2), means that the tape build up becomes exponentially harder to deal with as the game goes on.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
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    I have to believe this is wrong. Never say never my friend.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
    edited March 9
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    I am A okay with these suggested changes too for sure! 🙏🏼Truly. Thank you for your time. Means a lot! ❤️


    (To be fair, new survivors are already getting stomped by her. I don’t think it’ll much different otherwise one way or the other but as I said, I like your changes) 😄

  • bjorksnas
    bjorksnas Member Posts: 5,168
    edited March 9
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    Passive codemn gain just shouldn't return, OG sadako had you gain a stack of condemn and depending on the map almost always gain a 2nd stack of condemn for pulling a tape then after all is said and done you got rid of, 3 stacks (2 of which you got just trying to get rid of other stacks) its kind of silly and shouldn't be brought back

    maybe have it decrease the time tvs are off for each survivor holding a tape so its more temporary counterplay long term detrimental unless they deposit or lose the tapes

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
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    That’s why I mentioned when you pull a tape out you would not gain an initial stack of condemn. You would have 0 stacks. Then condemn would grow 1 stack over 25 seconds or 30. Survivors cannot allowed to be able to just hold onto tapes though free of charge for 70 seconds and then boom tv is on, turn tv off. 1 stack.

    I don’t mind the timer going up to give ppl time to get to the tv. 25seconds as is gives ppl enough time to do 2 and a half gens. I’m okay if they moved it to every 30 seconds…but I believe it’s extremely important to have that feature. It was also very unique to her. It’s a cursed object.


    Anywho - thank you for your thoughts! I appreciate it!

  • bjorksnas
    bjorksnas Member Posts: 5,168
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    so then make the "cursed object" propogate and decrease the time for a tv to turn on by 5s per tape being held

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,212
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    Lots of very good ideas and points. I agree with most all of it.

    Personally I found my love of Onryo from her global condemn version which was by far my favorite of every version we’ve seen. It was actually a completely different play style from many killers and felt unique. This is why I’d rather just return to that version with improvement tweaks ideally.

    I feel like every time a killer has a unique play style they nerf/rework it back into being more copy/pasta like the rest the killers. Current Sadako lacks what made her unique to me.

    As you’ve mentioned in your post already, why does she need a lullaby/visual terror radius? It defeats the entire point of being a stealth killer..which she’s supposed to be..but literally isn’t right now as no one gets surprised by her. This stuff shouldn’t exist. Make her stealth actually be stealth. Force survivors to look around, not spoon food it to them.

    Given that her manifest/demanifest has realistically very, very little strength let’s be honest. It shouldn’t slow you down at all going between them and should give more benefit than it currently does.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
    edited March 9
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    I’m okay with that too :)

    thank you for your thoughts ❤️

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
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    It’s nice seeing a fellow pig main sharing some love! Thank you so much! I have always supported pig mains and their endeavors, it’s so nice to see it delivered back.


    I agree, at the very least the visual terror rad should not show up for people, keep the lullaby sure or as my friend @Pulsar said, make it much larger. Harder to predict.

    I respect that. I was not opposed to the last version either. It’s just that the first version is what caught my eye, I built my strengths off of a very weak killer at the time. I guess I kinda wanted to continue that, except with the enhancements we already got today. If he was more like continuing the story for myself if that makes sense, my journey out of the way is well. :)

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 2,263
    edited March 9
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    Hahahaha, it's the same problem as Pig and Pinhead, you can only weaken the side quest so much before it becomes irrelevant...

    Maybe after someone has been condemned 3 times in range of the same TV we need a sprite of One Pump Willy appearing on the screen shouting "For the love of God! Grab a Video Tape!" XD


    Seriously though, nerfing that global portion and bringing back the old skill expression, as well as fixing up some quirks as you've highlighted here... Onryo would be pretty engaging... the more I think about it, the more awesome it sounds!

    She's on the cusp of being really awesome!!! She's so close.

  • jonifire
    jonifire Member Posts: 1,437
    edited March 9
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    I just hope they change those parts back to her first version. For me her first version was almost perfekt 👌.

    Instead of reworking her you should only...and leave the rest.

    change tapes back to give one stack by holding a tape every 25s

    remove the Tv auras (except of the one Tv, where you have to put your tape), currently this makes her chase even weaker than it already is

    apply condemned in a radius of 16m around one Tv (another solution/idea if you want to buff condemned; would be to apply condemned based around the proximity to the one Tv for example 24-16m 0,5stacks; 16-8m 1stack; 8-0m 2 stacks)

    remove the 1 stack trade for turning off a TV 

    revert the tape insertion speed back to 2s or at least 1,5s


    Post edited by jonifire on
  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 6,723
    edited March 9
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    I feel like every time a killer has a unique play style they nerf/rework it back into being more copy/pasta like the rest the killers.

    It is because a different play-styles requires you to re-learn and adapt to the game. The copy-pasta m1 killer does not require re-learning the game.

    It was actually a completely different play style from many killers and felt unique. This is why I’d rather just return to that version with improvement tweaks ideally.

    I agree. The different play-style is why I decided to spend time learning Sadako. It was a unique experience to play her.

    Current Sadako lacks what made her unique to me.

    too little agency on using the effectively curse, too much reliance of survivor to play poorly. results an uninteresting killer to play.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
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    Thanks so much!! ❤️ I appreciate you! I agree completely! 🤣🤣 I remember when Willie said that haha! She’s close!! They just need to finish the job. Haha

  • bleep275
    bleep275 Member Posts: 113
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    I stopped playing sadako because of the tape thing. At least give us killer instinct if they grab one or something. Or make it so the tv interaction isn’t instant. I could smack someone at a tv, and they can put it in while my weapon cooldown is going. It’s frustrating.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
    edited March 10
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    “Define tape thing”

    Also I agree. It’s very frustrating. Her condemn slowdown is meh without video tape copy on larger maps. You will get little slowdown on top of ppl just freely shutting of TVs because there’s no consequences for holding a tape like Passive Condemn.


    Aliens map, Mac Millans, Badham(hit or miss) Backwater swamp, Coldwind (main building in the middle. The one that’s not the butcher main building) Auto havens, etc

    These maps against decent to high mmr you’ll get little condemn slowdown due to size. Video tape copy is a must. Maps like Gideon or midwitch, they get condemned no matter where they go.

    As I have said to everyone else and I will say it to you, thank you so much for your time and thoughts! 😄😄

  • FreeKnives
    FreeKnives Member Posts: 82
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    I hope they address yours and many other Sadako Mains concerns my friend. We both know what happened with Trickster...and I have the same sentiments as you about them trying something, and appreciating it, but when its not working with the mains and people willing to play this character regularly, our insights seem to fall into the void. I hope they see this and stay engaged if they address it. I don't know to much about Sadako, but I think there is nothing wrong with continuing to tweak a character, or reversing things if things arent working. I mean thats how we figure out what does work. But listening to the mains of the character is important. And feedback like this is important. Stay persistent. <3

    And hopefully they dont put her aside for months with a promise that they are thinking about it, nothing else...I know they are busy...and I love what they are doing with the new chapter...But some of these characters are really more than just a casual choice when you play this game. Some of us dedicate thousands of hours to get good at a character, some of us are content creators based off a character, some of us hold community events because of our characters with people that play our character, or join charity events using our characters, and it just feels wrong to negate how much impact a game can have on people, how much impact a change on a character can have on people who really look forward and enjoy the time they get to play. Yes these are BHVR creations, and I believe they do know best, of course they do......but I also believe that when you create something for the public, it takes a life of its own. Sometimes the fans know just as much, if not more by how many hours they spend on a character.

    Nothing broke my heart more to see the Devs management unpin our Trickster Feedback Forum, when we had some much more we we were figuring out and learning with the updated version, and continued to share. I hope you have more luck than we did.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
    edited March 10
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    I think this could be a great idea 💡 for Onyro. Even if there was a delayed effect where it wasn’t “instant” but I think this could work well.

    @Pulsar I like picking your brain 🧠 my friend, do you think this could be okay?

  • canonjack001
    canonjack001 Applicant Posts: 66
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    I think she should be reverted to first rework version, because it allows both sides to have counter play to each other.

    In current version survivors can completely deny her power by just closing TV before doing gens.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,212
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    You mean the global condemn version? That was my favorite version

  • NickMilian
    NickMilian Member Posts: 75
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    I get the impression that after the last few updates we got for Sadako that she's no longer a priority for them. They no doubt have a schedule to adhere to and can't really veer away from it unless there's a bug.

    There's a TON of feedback and suggestions for her on here that would make her better to play as and against that hopefully they read through and implement where necessary.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
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    Unfortunately my friends not much has improved. It’s still frustrating. The most success I can get is with hex builds. They buy me a little time but hex’s are fairly weak and not well hidden (totems)


    Especially with the bug on her demanifest. The mind games are non existent on top of her already bad stealth, condemn and other flaws. Not even including addons mentioned in my other thread displaying videos.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
    edited April 20
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    I would agree 💯 2.0 verison while it wasn’t her “identity” I felt like I could at least stand a chance against swfs. It was brief but I wasn’t nervous when I queued in for killer.


    I of course prefer all the things that made her unique. Just need passive condemn on tapes again, and then ill will be silent on these forums forever 🤣

  • Skitten56
    Skitten56 Member Posts: 309
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    I would prefer to have her 1.0 version back but keep the QoL changes and the Ring Drawing nerf.

    As for your suggestions:

    1. These spawn locations are shared with other object spawns and BHVR is unlikely to change all of them just for Onryo.
    2. Absolutely should be addressed. Either make it so the VTR only lights up when her lullaby actually has an audio queue or just remove the VTR for her lullaby.
    3. TVs are always off against good teams but that is the nature of the 2.0 and 3.0 reworks where survivors are heavily encourages to turn off TVs instead of not touch them like the 1.0 release version of Onryo.
    4. I am okay with tapes being a threat again but tapes absolutely cannot be a threat as long as we have any sort of map wide condemn (2.0 and 3.0 versions) for balancing reasons. If we go back to condemn only applying around the TV she Projects to, then tapes being a threat again would be balanced. For me personally this would be the desired outcome. I would also suggest having a basekit 18m condemn range upon Projection if they made this change.
    5. Again we would need to make condemn only apply around the Projection TV and not all TVs for passive condemn to be balanced. This is 100% the direction BHVR should go however. Release Onryo took skill to use and build condemn, while current 3.0 version of Onryo is a pub stomper but gets stomped by skilled swf because turning off TVs and easily disabling multiple aspects of her power at once is the meta counter. By going back to her 1.0 system of condemn application by means of only the single Projection TV and then having survivors get passive condemn from tapes, we would have a much healthier Onryo that would have access to their power against swf but still be counterable, while also not having her power be incredibly oppressive against newer or uninformed players that do know she can spread condemn from all active TVs.
    6. 1.5 seconds would feel like a more fair and balanced tape insert speed, but with her current version being able to rapidly spread condemn across the map, they are unlikely to make such a change.
    7. Lets talk add-ons because I have a lot to say about them. I will address what I disagree with here and then post my own thoughts on add-ons below.
      1. The Tape Editing Deck add-on is actually decent. You are correct that the aura reading from it is given when you need it the least but it is still decent info to keep tabs on survivors. Furthermore the add-ons primary effects are not useless. The add-on either gives you slowdown at the start or allows you to get 1-2 extra stacks of condemn on survivors early which is a good base to build off for any condemn builds. This is because by having survivors starting the match with a tape, when they start to work a gen and the TVs all come on, their first tape pick-up now gives them 1 stack instead of 0. Also since they will all likely hold onto their tapes, the first down and hook you make should give the rest another stack of condemn.
      2. I don't know about making Mother's Mirror basekit. It is an add-on with somewhat limited use but it is not useless. I'd say for a brown add-on it is in a decent enough spot.
      3. Distorted Photo as you mention is just too unreliable to be worth running since survivors need to "witness" it. If they removed that requirement and made it something like all survivors within 8 meters of Onryo manifesting scream and reveal their auras, it would be much more useful but not too strong.

    Rickety Pinwheel and Sea-Soaked Cloth

    These add-ons are not good in any meta where survivors are actively encouraged to always turn off any TV around them before working a gen (1st rework and current 2nd rework metas). This is because these add-ons only work when within a limited range of a powered TV. These 2 add-ons performed fine on release since survivors were punished for touching TVs, thus providing the add-ons some value as survivors were unlikely to turn a TV off themselves. However since with Onryo's current rework survivors are at massive risk of condemn by not disabling these TVs, they will almost always turn off the TV rendering these add-ons virtually useless.

    Solution: These add-ons instead should only work when a survivor is within 8 meters of a TV that is turned off by a survivor. This would give them actual use with how Onryo's current power works and how survivors engage with it.

    Iridescent Videotape

    This add-on is a great concept. It allows Onryo to trade away all her condemn pressure in exchange for mobility. It is also balanced by having a longer TV off duration when survivors perform the counterplay to her TVs. However there is one major problem with this add-on. That being smart survivors will just run around the map disabling multiple TVs at a time since they have no threat of condemn. This is made even easier for survivors with the assistance of them being able to see the TV auras of powered TVs.

    Solution: Make it so that when using this add-on, survivors that are holding a cursed tape can no longer see the auras of TVs. This would stop survivors from being able to abuse TV auras and the Iri-tape add-on by completely disabling her power. It would also still be balanced since survivors would still have the assistance of TV auras to find and disable their first TV.

    Clump of Hair

    This add-on is one of her weakest. Ideally it would be used by Onryo's who want to play into her stealth aspects and sneak up on survivors but in practice it is pretty much useless. This is even more true now than ever due to the Visual Terror Radius. Due to the VTR, survivors will always know when you are approaching them and will be on the lookout for you. As a result Onryo's stealth for catching survivors off guard is incredibly weak and this add-on with is supposed to assist with that is weak as well.

    Solution: BHVR should add an additional effect to this add-on that make it so her lullaby is silent and doesn't trigger the Visual Terror Radius, OR the add-on should make it so her lullaby is map wide. Both of these options would allow Onryo to have some stealth again when demanifested by either hiding the VTR or making it useless due to the lullaby's large range. The result would make this add-on a good but not overly strong add-on for those who want to play into the stealth aspects of Onryo which are currently laughable at best.

    VCR

    This add-on has always been a bit weak since it only gets value when survivors do not have direct sight on a TV. This is because the add-on does not show Sadako crawling out of the TV. When survivors hear the teleport sound, they just need to look at the nearby TV and if they don’t see her character model, they will know that she teleported elsewhere. At most it is a minor inconvenience. However with Onryo's new rework, survivors get aura reading on nearby powered TVs. As a result they can just look at the TV aura and if it disappears, they will know Onryo teleported to that TV. This renders the VCR add-on to be completely useless now outside of meme value.

    Solution: Keep its current effect but add a new effect that makes it so the auras of TVs are hidden to survivors which are working on a generator.

    I talk in more detail about what I consider the most pressing add-on changes with the new version of Onryo that need to happen here if you are interested and want to read it.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,492
    edited April 21
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    Thank you for your words my friend. I pretty much agree with everything you said, but 2.0 condemn and 3.0 are not the same. 2.0 is map wide global condemn. 3.0 is not global just because it’s by 7 TVs.

    There’s still a lot of space in between those TVs and around that’s survivors can go to miss the blast radius. Passive condemn would fix help put slight pressure on them. Right now there are only Upsides to tapes for survivors, there are no downsides.


    I agree with you on point 5 1000% for sure. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE THIS!

    You probably saw this already, but I made these videos.