The Unknown Feedback
Comments
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Suppose I'll do a follow-up to my previous post.
Base-kit suggestions:
- Reduce the cooldown of UVX by 2 seconds. Cooldown is now 5 seconds.
A more forgiving cooldown for its chase power, especially if there is no room for avoiding LoS in certain maps would be very nice. The time it takes to remove Weakened is fine, but there should be a longer window to allow Unknown to use its power before they can dispel it. The slightly lower cooldown should fix that.
- Direct UVX hits apply the Incapacitated Status Effect for 3 seconds.
- Survivors hit directly by UVX Projectiles scream.
The goal here is to add more utility to direct UVX hits while also rewarding them. Incapacitated allows for mini slowdown and interrupting the generator repair. It won't affect the counterplay where you can stand close to Unknown to avoid getting blasted, taking a hit instead, but it interrupts generators if you manage to hit them directly.
Add-on suggestions:
The current version of these add-ons are not good. Punctured Eyeball requires the survivor to be Weakened to become Deep Wounded, which is far too situational. Instead, make a training wheel add-on, similar to Nurse and Blight's!
Homemade Mask on the other hand only gives Blindness and nothing else for a whole minute. The survivor has to dispel the Hallucination to get value out of it, and it's hard to tell when you're even getting value out of it to begin with. An add-on that applies Blindness when a survivor gets Weakened or injured by UVX by any means would be a lot better. Onto my proposal for Homemade Mask, my idea is to give it another bounce. This will give it an increased attack range, similar to Discarded Milk Carton. Combining both of them would increase the range big time, allowing for some insane orbitals!
I really like The Unknown, a very unique twist on a long-ranged killer, but some of its add-ons could use some work as many of them are focused too much on status effects. These two are my ideas to add just a bit more variety to its add-ons.
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I'm not sure if this is a skill issue or not but I'd really like to be able to look all the way down as The Unknown.
If a survivor body checks me while I'm holding my power there's nothing I can do about it.
If I shoot at the surv's feet
- Direct hit (Does nothing)
- Projectile bounces of the floor away from survivor
- Can't swing my axe while recovering from power
If I cancel my power
- Can't swing my axe for 2ish seconds
- MS decreases while the survivor gains distance and/ or uses resources
If the survivor is in a dead zone all of this doesn't matter that much, but if somebody bumps into you while looping it feels awful.
Being within chest bump range of the killer is supposed to be the worst place to be
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yeah, if you consider hitting those shots "skill" fine, have it your way haha
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yeah i did, if you consider making those shots as "skill" okay, have it your way bro
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The bounce mechanic is fun. I also play Meet your Maker, so I am used to bounce shots (there is a weapon that acts the same way)
It would be helpful if UVX projectile was a bit more visually discernible from the explosion. Sometimes it's hard to learn what/why certain shots worked (ie see where it bounced off and what it exploded on).
I enjoy everything about Unknown's teleport system!
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I personally feel he's too weak atm.
How would y'all feel about no limit or a significantly higher amount of Hallucinations that can be up? This would make some of his addons a lot more appealing and actually give him a bit of passive game slow down as the survivors would need to actually keep his hallucinations under control.
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It is skill. It’s harder than you think.
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The teleport is easily the strongest part in his kit and destroys solos. The hallucinations are much more than slowdown. They are map control. If left unchecked he can lock down an area and ambush on the other side of the map. Managing and using these is his skill ceiling though the way the hallucinations drop seems kind of clunky and opaque to be fair. This killer can play really dirty.
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After playing well over 150 Matches as this killer....
I am very frustrated.
The amount of effort I have put into learning him with over 5k hours just isn't working. Which is shocking since even singularity felt better than this.
His power is just SUPER unrewarding and easy to get rid of, but only specifically against good survivors.
Nearly every chase I play goes like this. I get them weakened, try to align the next shot, they dodge, I wait out the dodge, then I shoot and their weakened goes away right before I hit them. There just simply isn't enough time, and the fact that they keep removing the weakened around walls after looking away, and the fact that it goes away in just 10 seconds is insane.
It's suffering the same fate as release rework trickster with the 10 second laceration timer. There just simply isn't enough time to follow up another shot.
I think the best fix without making him overpowered would be to make it take 15 seconds to remove weakened. Just like how trickster had the laceration increase to 15 seconds from 10, and it really helped a lot!
Other than this, he is really fun to play as the trick shots are nice! Survivors are just mostly not hugging walls anymore though so those are becoming pretty rare. He may suffer the same fate as pig where they think he will be too strong and not get the buffs he deserves.
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So I tried to get Undone to work. Doctor, Distressing, Coulphobia, Merciless Storm on Midwich. Even being able to cover the map with the TR to try to force skillcheck saves getting to 30 stacks just isn't going to happen.
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The unknown needs his projectile velocity increased to where it's not predictable and incredibly easy to dodge. Weakened should also be harder to remove. It is nearly impossible to hit a survivor that is good because your projectile is so slow and predictable. Another killer who is only good at pubstomping
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Eh, I just disagree. I've also been playing a lot of matches as the new killer. And I've been finding the power super rewarding, especially since you refresh the weakened on an injure now and are rewarded with more time for landing your shots and not taking the free m1 when it is offered. Sure some players have been good at juking the power, especially mid range, but having to earn your downs is where the fun is at. Usually the juke costs them distance anyhow. It is super satisfying landing the UVX in the short window as it feels fast paced and like your skill matters. There's enough time for one shot, which is somewhat similar to artist, missing it does deserve the weakness removal as punishment.
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Can’t agree with players that his power is dodgable and thus- weak. It doesn’t matter if you dodge it because using it strategically pushes player to unsafe place - easy m1.
I find problematic his proxycamping/back to hook/tunneling potential which by not much surprise manifests vehemently during matches. His hallucinations can spawn too close to the hook however taking them out before unhooking in case of proxy camp can cost survivor dearly- killer teleports to it- weakened+m1 is a guarantee. But if not removed…well, we know how that goes.
His blast going through walls and ceilings is just too much.
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So why is my idea bad? Literally everything is rougher on solos. Yes the hallucinations are more than just slow down, that sounds good to me. While yes there is a tiny/very clunky bit of control you can use to their placement, they are generally speaking going to be placed randomly. My change isn't hurting his skill ceiling, it's raising it, as it's also giving him more opportunity for plays.
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You mean it's OP of course...Ranged AND Teleport? C'mon be serious now.
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Just commenting on the perks
Unbound is a cool idea for an effect, but it's quite underwhelming. Killer vaults are 1.2 seconds longer than a fast vault. The distance covered by a survivor in that time is 4.8 meters. The extra distance given by a 10 second, 5% speed boost is 2 meters. You're still losing distance simply by choosing to vault; the only way in which this is at all useful is if you're making a build around vaulting (in which case you're losing out on a lot of other stuff) or you're in a situation where you're forced to vault regardless (incredibly situational, bordering on useless in some maps). Basically the speed boost ends up running out once you get to the next loop. I'd look at either increasing the bonus or extending the duration so you lose less distance on the vault.
Unforseen is pretty good, no notes
Undone is another cool idea for an effect, but tying it to missed skill checks makes it very weak. Against survivors who are gonna miss skill checks regularly slowdown ends up being unnecessary, and in games where you need slowdown the survivors aren't gonna be missing skill checks. The perk should get charges for all types of skill checks (maybe 2 for good ones and 1 for great ones? that way it still gets value while giving counterplay to surviors)
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OP means it's uncounertable. This Killer is very counterable. You can remove the clones to stop it from teleporting and predict that it will try to teleport near you if you know in advance the Clone is nearby. You can dodge his AOE projectile by predicting it or reacting to it too.
Why do you think it's OP?
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His ultra rare add-on that makes survivors start the match Weakened shouldn't have a downside, it only makes your first chase with a survivor potentially faster but survivors can still remove the Weakened status before you start a chase with them/damage them with the UVX and afterwards the only active part of the add-on is the downside. The green add-on that makes survivors weakened after they complete a generator is much stronger than this one simply cause it doesn't have any downside.
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Give him too many opportunities and he becomes impossible to deal with.
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I think the Unknown is in a great spot! I appreciate the feedback being taken into account from the PTB, as the hindered feels more impactful and makes the yellow addon a fun option. This chapter is one of my favorites in a while, lovely work!
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Give huntress a teleport ability then or Slinger. You can dodge some shots too. Why not then?
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That doesn’t seem like too many opportunities if the survivors control the hallucinations.
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Lol it's just the design of it's power, get over it. It's a really good power. Not OP, but really good nonetheless.
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I disagree that survivors do control them if The Unknown hits his shots and protects them unless survivors are on comms. Depends on the map and where the chase went, sure, but as soon as the snowball starts rolling there is little time to remove them. Though maybe I'm the only one in my games who cares to deal with hallucinations, that's a possibilty. You asked about unlimited hallucinations. How do you feel about getting ambushed as soon as BBQ triggers or even randomly and then cut off wherever you go without knowing he even was there to drop one or four hallucination in the first place? Or better yet you even spent 20s to look around and dispelled one or two hallucinations but there was a third one in an obscure location.
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First, you see hallucination, so you aren’t getting surprised. You know exactly where they are. There is no “randomly” getting surprised. How are they in an obscure location if you see where they’re at? If it’s far enough you aren’t seeing their auras then you realistically have so much heads up that you aren’t getting jumped.
Second, I wouldn’t be getting jumped after a bbq because I would realize not to clear one right as someone’s being hooked. That’s a survivor misplay if that’s happening.
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The range of aura read on hallucinations is quite limited and if they are behind an object you see them late at best. If they are in the open, sure, you see them, but saying you see them everywhere all the time is disingenuous especially in chase when you have few options and may be getting zoned, too.
When you are chased into an area of the map you have not been to before and you are not aware that he chased anyone else there then every hallucination would be 'random' to you or when he abandons a chase and you happen to be there either just arriving or attempting to dispel. Tell me neither of these are not random.
I include getting sniped at a gen immediately after teleport in getting jumped not just taking his axe to the face - this could be just at the edge of this terror radius. I agree being in melee range of a hallucination after a hook is a misplay especially when injured but if you still think this is the extent of possibilities with unlimited hallucinations and survivors have unlimited time to deal with unlimited hallucinations, let us assume they are not interrupted else this gets much worse, then I don't see a point in continuing this argument.
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Dude you can see the auras way, way easier than you are making it sound like. You are never being surprised. I don't see how you could ever not see them. We're just not going to see eye to eye if you think the hallucinations are that hard to see.
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It is not about them being literally hard to see but them being everywhere if you give him an unlimited amount. Hard to see ones as in unexpected so you do not check during the approach or even if you do check there is neither time nor another location to go to.
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Isn't it maximum 4, 3 with the iri addon? Seems pretty limited to me.
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With something like 45s between placing them...entirely managable on the survivor end imo.
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With the change I’m talking about that would be entirely the point. The survivors would need to manage them from being everywhere.
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I suppose you have not yet played against an Unknown player that was even half decent.
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Couldn’t I also just say I suppose your teams been playing badly and making you think he’s stronger than he is? I wouldn’t make that point.
These types of statements don’t really say anything. We have to focus on actual points.
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needs a nerf either
leaving the clones to teleport to last too long.
there's too many of them.
feel like the teleport to clone the transfer is too quick. if it had some audio queue like freddys teleport to a gen and subtle pause before moving makes sense.
audio is like a really bad washing machine, needs re-work.
if you're not going to tweak any of that the MS alone feels fast atleast via the animation it does... i've not successfully been able to loop one yet.
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Some teams playing badly is a given as soon as solo survivors are mentioned. Beyond writing an essay with detailed situations I have nothing left to add to explain how utterly oppressive a territorial Unknown with more/unlimited hallucinations would be which I will not do. Bhvr likely tested that and came to the same conclusion.
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What do you mean by there's too many hallucinations? There's only maximum of 4 and it can be 3 if you run one of the iri addon.
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his projectile and weakened being so easily removed makes him far from op.. against even mid survivors his projectile is bad. It literally only squashes baby survivors. His hallucinations can also easily be dealt with if you stay on top of them.
you can literally turn him into an m1 killer. against a good squad in some ways freddy is better than him.
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just had a game.... guys dropped clones by both exit gates as im looking for hatch and then closed it. ok tell me more about how these clone placements aren't OP. leave them by hooked survivors. instant tele. it's bull
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Unknown isn't even the only killer who can guard exit gates effectively. Also you're describing a situation that already doesn't favor the last survivor remaining.
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Buff his projectile, increase the weakened time, remove edging his power to drop clone.
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Agreed, it's too much. Worry about projectiles, worry about his clones, gens, unhooking. It's too much stuff. At least removing his projections needs to be a lot faster and he absolutely cannot be able to sense we're near them.
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He can't sense you're near them
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Dispelling his hallucinations literally only takes 4 seconds (5 if you remove them while Weakened), how much faster than that do you want them to be ? Also Unknown doesn't get any tell for when his hallucinations are being removed, you'd know that if you would just played him.
Post edited by CarlAlc7 on3 -
There still are people who want to make already a mediocre M1 killer even weaker. How about trying to play as this joke of a killer first and see what he is capable of?
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I will give my opinion about decoys.
The fundamental problem with the decoys, is that when the Unknown teleports, survivors can hear the sound it makes at the point before and after the teleport. Therefore, survivors who understand the Unknown mechanism will hardly perceive the decoys remain in the spot where the Unknown was earlier as a threat, and the decoys will have little influence. I don't think this problem will be much improved even if use Ultra Rare Add-on "Iridescent OSS Report".
Below are some suggestions.
- If the base time for decoys to disappear was made longer, more survivors might mistake decoys for hallucinations and become confused.
- It might be interesting to have a new ability where if press the ability button without targeting a hallucinations, the Unknown can create a decoy with red stain on the spot for a certain period of time. This ability shares a cooldown with teleport.
- Iridescent OSS Report might be a good to add more effect "the teleporting sound becomes silent".
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He's honestly seems hard to balanced good players are going to land every shot systematicly taking out survivors giving them no real or fun counterplay (but it seems like the devs don't want any interesting counter play with removing light burn n all)
on the other hand players who are learning or not playing very well are going to get severely penalized for missing shots as the survivor will stair you down remove the effect making you reset all your progress and land another 2 uvx hits.
I'd maybe give unknown a shorter cool down & smaller blast radius, that way he can use his powers more often but survivors can also juke and counter little easier with the smaller radius.
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That sounds fair. Honestly I hate looking behind me all the time in chase, it makes bump into things.
They should bring back lightburn it was a cool mechanic and gave a small counterplay.
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First off, clones can't be within 16 meters of a hooked survivor, you are fine. Secondly being able to patrol exit gates isn't OP XD, you can literally remove them in a 3 second animation. You can't even do that verse Singularity and he's not OP. he can replace them instantly and have multiple there near hooks and near gens and near gates.
Honestly not to be that guy but I've had no issues looping him, weakened goes away really quickly and the projectile is easy to dodge. Just remove his clones while he's carrying someone, it's pretty easy.
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Ya navigation can get tricky alot of people don't know the stare down has a slight lingering effect so you can quickly transition the camera forward to see where your going with no penalty.
It was Little things like light burn that made old Dbd so fun to play or disabling hag traps w the light, I'd be cool if they rolled with it and we got something like shing a flashlight on a survivor removes UVX.
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Give Survivors their own projectile in exchange. Then, you might be able to begin to balance this Killer. You can't have splash damage range attacks in a game without at least giving your opponent (1) a weapon in exchange (2) use of environment for protection (3) a build mode like Fortnite and/or (4) dynamic movement, such as tactical sprint, mantling, jumping, etc. Unknown's opponents, they have none of these things.
DBD doesn't get ranged Killers right. Unknown's just the worst example. I played him once for a daily-- without perks/add-ons -- and just using his power, on PS4. There's little skill involved. That's the story for ranged Killers in this game, with the possible exception of Deathslinger that doesn't just try to zone Survivors.
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