Spirit should be nerfed .
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As a spirit main who invests most of my bloodpoints into her and therefore usually have an abundance of prayer beads, I hope you play on PS4. But regardless of system, I truly wish for you to go up against numerous spirits. May you quit forever. ♥️
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I don't think Spirit is OP... and from my experience she is fun to play against because of how unpredictable she is.
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This thread is a perfect example of how survivor mains love to complain when it actually takes skill and effort into winning games rather than getting easy wins. Spirit is probably the most balanced killer in the game, she doesn't overpower survivors but she's also not dominated by them. A good survivor can outplay her if they know what they're doing, and she can outplayed survivors if they know what they're doing.
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no, they mention that they already fix the bug "When you using her power or vault window, you original body will shows red stain."
So the previous patch is all bug. Just like basement grass moving. It is a bug, not MinDGamE.
From the patch
- Fixed an issue that caused The Spirit to see her Husk's killer stain when phasing and vaulting.
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@paint1210 she still has a red stain. The Killer just isn't supposed to see it.
Remember the issue was that the SPIRIT was seeing the killer stain.
Not the existence of the Killer stain in the first place.
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@vampire_toothy " By this I mean that Spirit still causes grass to move"
THIS IS FALSE. Spirit does not make grass/corn move while phase walking. People need to stop saying this.
This is also wrong. The issue was that Spirit could see her OWN red stain, not that survivors would see the red stain when they shouldn't.
@miaasma Spirit can be countered, the key is to understand how she works. I main Spirit and therefore have a good understanding of what her experience is like in phase walk. That means I...
- Avoid walking through grass or corn when she is phasing.
- Avoid crows when she is phase walking.
- WALK when she is phase walking unless I know that she is definitely following me in which case I run in unusual paths.
- USE WINDOWS. Seriously, windows are the best defense against Spirit because she can't vault while phase walking. If you find a strong window use it and she is forced to stop phase walk to vault, or to go around which for some spots means you have ample time to avoid her. Slow vaulting windows or Q&Q helps a lot too.
- I use Iron Will and Spine Chill almost specifically to counter Spirit because I know how hard it is to track someone in phase walk you can't hear cry in pain. Spine Chill is my anti-stealth killer perk and counters Prayer Beads. It gives you an indication of when she isn't following right behind you.
- Understand the counters to her "stand still" mindgame. The biggest mistake survivors make is that they will tend to go towards the "husk" which is what the Spirit player wants, or they try to run in a particular direction. Sometimes you don't have a choice but to do stuff like this, but MOST of the time you are better off just walking away from the husk. If she is faking it, this forces her to give up and chase you. If she is phase walking then she won't be able to track you and you can get a head start to the next loop.
- Know when you are being followed and when she is going around to cut you off. If you are being followed, dropping a pallet can save you as it can act like a window in some cases. If you know she is trying to cut you off, don't take the obvious path that is the normal loop. Do something janky, and if you double back just make sure that it's not in view of the husk in case of #6.
- You have to be able to track her power. By that I mean pay attention to how long she phase walked the last time. If it was >5s then she has to wait 15s for her power which means you can loop her like any other killer. It also means if she stops moving that it's 100% a fake out, so don't fall for it.
When I play against Spirits I tend to be the most difficult to track and catch because I know how to play against her. I still get caught and die, and yes sometimes it's just a guess what you have to do, but the more you do to make HER guess the more likely you will just luck out and she will guess wrong (even if you also guessed wrong).
I suggest to you to actually play Spirit. It will give you a much better understanding of how to beat her. It's not that hard, just not the normal way you play against a killer. And yes, she is powerful so against a GOOD Spirit player (which is honestly rare) it will be very difficult. But that's not a result of her being too strong, that's a result of practice and skill.
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i feel like you didn't read anything i typed in this thread if you think i haven't played spirit or don't know to take windows against her
the standing still thing you're mentioning shows you're out of touch. she can stand still until you start to walk away, THEN phase at you. that's what i mean when i say a spirit can just watch what you do and react accordingly
the rest of your advice is just "do random stuff and hope she screws up" unabridged. that's exactly what i do and it works a lot. doesn't mean it isn't horrible that the only "counterplay" to a killer is hoping they messed up
it's a guessing game killer and it's bad design, and assuming i'm some rank 20 who has never played spirit and doesn't know what i'm talking about is your call
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Shame on you , I play both sides since 2016 , and as you can tell I played every single killer enough to understand what counters them and what doesn't
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a spirit main saying "spirit is the most balanced killer in the game" and not realizing their own bias even when it's spelled out for them is just hysterical
especially when it's paired with calling everyone who disagrees with them "survivor mains"
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"...So, perhaps when 95% of people say, "Yeah, that killer is fine." Maybe, just maybe, you might be wrong..."
Well, 95% of these forums are killers main who want 4k every game anyway
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If you play Spirit then you honestly shouldn't have that much trouble beating her. Yes, she could fake the phase walk, see what you do, then phase walk, but now you have a head start. If you move to a spot that breaks LOS and act unpredictably, you can avoid getting hit. I've done it. It's not hard.
"Do random stuff and hope she messes up" is exactly what you need to do. If you act unpredictably she won't be able to hit you out of phase walk. When that happens you can loop her like any other killer for a short time.
Also it's not always a guessing game, it's a PREDICTION game. You have to be able to read what she is doing, and you do that by understanding how to play her. If you are running directly at a window, the obvious choice is that you will vault it. She is predicting you will do that, so you need to NOT do that. Then the next time, slow vault the window. She will think you didn't vault. It's called conditioning.
Because Spirit main's understand how she plays and therefore understand how to counter play her. I find it very easy to play against most Spirit players, because most Spirit players aren't very good honestly. I know how to counter play her. It's why I tell Spirit mains you want Stridor because it's the only way to beat Iron Will. The common counter argument is "well I have no problem tracking survivors in phase walk", yea because most survivors are bad at playing against Spirit. But get 1 survivor that knows what to do, give them Iron Will, and you could easily lose a game because of that one player. I've had players juke the crap out of me during my phase walk because they were very unpredictable. That's what you need to do to beat her. The less information you give her to find you, the more likely you will escape. Do I still die to Spirit? Yes, but it's usually because I made a mistake, not because she was so powerful I couldn't beat her.
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The most balanced killer in the game is the Huntress.
On the topic of Spirit, Prayer Beads, and only Prayer Beads, might need a nerf. It's right up there with extra blinks on Nurse in power level. Otherwise the character is fine in my opinion. She is a mind-games killer very weak to windows.
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"... and you could easily lose a game because of that one player..."
Lose a game is not 4k? Because I think this is the problem here, killers always want 4k.
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really don't have the patience to respond to the same things over and over again so just read back
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No lose the game as in 3e/4e/depip. A good survivor with Iron Will that knows what to do against Spirit will waste a lot of your time, and/or be the gen jockey you can't stop while you are busy with other survivors.
Your points have been debunked though. Nothing you've said about how she plays is an indication she is overpowered and needs a nerf. More that you simply fail to counter play her properly. It can be done, I do it all the time and I've had it done to me (and I'm a pretty good Spirit). It's all about prediction skills and your ability to be unpredictable yourself.
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I've been sitting here and trying to come up with a post on how to counter Spirit while she's invisible. I think I'm going to give up because I don't want to turn this into another topic on Sprint Burst (and similar).
All I'm going to say is that I find I have the most trouble playing against a good Spirit when they catch me completely out of position. If I can get to a window or a pallet, I can waste a whole bunch of time; which is true of a lot of killers being honest.
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I don't think Spirit is overpowered. I think she as close to overpowered as you can get while still being "okay." She's currently my favorite killer to play.
That being said, there really aren't ######### for mindgames the survivor can do against a good Spirit unless they have Iron Will. As the Spirit, I can just wait for the survivor to run into me. If they just run away instead, then I just actually use my power as soon as they're out of the safety of whatever loop they were in. I don't even have to be precise because they've already left a tile and there should be some space to the next one. There really aren't many things the survivor can do.
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i never said spirit was overpowered, i said she had no counterplay
spirit doesn't really have to predict anything lol
pretty convinced you aren't reading stuff at this point, and if you think "hoping she messes up" is any actual counterplay or in any way good killer design then you're hopeless
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@miaasma "i never said spirit was overpowered, i said she had no counterplay"
Still incorrect. There is counter play as I and others have pointed out. You just seem to refuse accepting it.
"spirit doesn't really have to predict anything lol"
She does if you are unpredictable. If you run in straight lines and vault windows like clockwork, yea she doesn't need to predict things.
"pretty convinced you aren't reading stuff at this point, and if you think "hoping she messes up" is any actual counterplay or in any way good killer design then you're hopeless"
You're not "hoping" she messes up, you are making her mess up by being unpredictable. This isn't like DS when you are completely at the mercy of the other player making a mistake. You can put her in positions to make mistakes, and you can increase the chance she makes a mistake by being unpredictable.
"Aren't reading stuff" yet ignores every proposed counter play to her.
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i've already responded to the "counterplay" points you've all made
you aren't "making" her mess up because she still has methods of tracking you if you move unpredictably. if she does well, she gets you. it doesn't matter how well you do, that's the problem
it's crazy to me how you can type things out like "you can increase the chance she makes a mistake by being unpredictable" and not realize the implication that all it boils down to is whether or not the spirit is good. what you're effectively saying is that if she is, and she doesn't mess up, you're dead. ergo, survivors have no real input in a killer-survivor interaction, all that matters is how good at the game the killer is. ergo, bad killer design
you can play as unpredictably as you want but in the end if she uses her tracking tools properly she doesn't need to predict anything, just react. the ball is always in her court. survivors react to nothing, spirit reacts to everything
keep typing the same thing over and over again if it makes you feel better about how this killer has no counterplay. plenty of people who play lots of spirit don't have an issue admitting that survivors can't do much of anything against a good spirit, so i'm not sure why you're having so much trouble with this. i'm going with the hopeless theory
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@miaasma "it's crazy to me how you can type things out like "you can increase the chance she makes a mistake by being unpredictable" and not realize the implication that all it boils down to is whether or not the spirit is good. what you're effectively saying is that if she is, and she doesn't mess up, you're dead. ergo, survivors have no real input in a killer-survivor interaction, all that matters is how good at the game the killer is. ergo, bad killer design"
If any killer doesn't mess you, you're dead. What is your point?
And you can still play such that even if she plays perfectly you can still evade her. Like I said, windows are very strong against Spirit. If you take a window that isn't an LT wall chances are you will avoid the hit from phase walk. You have input in that interaction.
"you can play as unpredictably as you want but in the end if she uses her tracking tools properly she doesn't need to predict anything, just react."
Unless you don't give her anything to react to. Not to mention, you don't need to necessarily escape the chase, only avoid the hit out of phase walk. If you do that most of the time it means you juked her and gained enough distance to keep the chase going. If you can do that consistently, you can make her waste a lot of time.
"keep typing the same thing over and over again" but repeats that she has no counter play when several people have pointed out that she actually does.
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okay i give up
you're totally hopeless and this is a waste of time and energy
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I kinda find it funny, that it is totally okay for killers to use the same build just to counter loops and gens. They don't have much that they can choose for an individual playstyle. But if a survivor should run a just one perk to counter things then the argument is totally invalid.
I personaly don't enjoy playing against the spirit, because I feel like she has 1 "counter play", but I still would not say that she is OP or broken. You still can waste enough time. You need to understand what add-on she is using, be aware of when she is using her power and play mindgames. But that all is more a luck thing imo.
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"I kinda find it funny, that it is totally okay for killers to use the same build just to counter loops and gens. They don't have much that they can choose for an individual playstyle. But if a survivor should run a just one perk to counter things then the argument is totally invalid."
I was finding this same irony quite funny as well.
Killers have been "required" to run many perks for quite a long time and that's fine, but as soon as survivors may need 1 perk it's not fair lol.
Not to mentioned the killer perks aren't even hard counters, they just lesson how painful it is and still don't fully handle anything.
Those Spirit countering perks are actually hard counters completely.
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Majority of Killers: Run Anti-Gen-Perk + Spirit Fury + Enduring because they kind of need to. It's been this way for a while now.
Survivors: "We shouldn't be forced to run Iron Will."
Me: "Yeah well I'd like to have more than one perk slot as killer. Deal with it."
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I get the distinct impression that certain people in this thread just don't know how to make a read on a player at even a fundamental level which is why they find the Spirit difficult to play against.
Human beings are creatures of habit, and a great majority of us have these habits so ingrained that they are noticable to those who are paying attention. That's what makes certain people who play spirit and Nurse so damn good - they can make those reads. And the people who are best at countering them are those with the same ability.
You can't really explain this to people who don't have the ability to notice the patterns - they just aren't wired that way (and we shouldn't be deriding them for lacking this ability). We can only take solice in that the devs have no plans to touch this fine killer any time soon.
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Funny thing , I've been running Iron will ever since 2017 , it doesn't counter spirit that much .
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Just stop this nonsense that running IW and spine chill hard counters spirit that much
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Youre defending old infinites, holy ######### I thought this was sad before but now it's just double sad
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i visibly cringed while reading this
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Sorry but if you run Iron Will and Spine Chill but still die easily to a Spirit that's YOU being bad at the game. These perks do indeed counter her, I use them myself and I'm a very difficult catch for Spirits. And I main Spirit and find the ones using one or both of these perks to be the most difficult to find and catch.
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Didja get mindgamed so therefore she needs nerfs? Nah dude. Just practice facing her.
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I'd like to invite anybody here claiming Spirit has counterplay without Iron Will to KYF a few chases. Maybe I can learn something.
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I think something needs to be buffed! I'm not saying The Spirit, I'm saying the brain of the guy who think Spirit needs to be nerfed, needs BUFF!!!
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You missed my point , I mentioned infinites because people used to defend them in the past , claiming that it takes skill to use them . Just like right now spirit players say that she has counter plays in a chase .
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Get good, just because you cant loopy loop her like a Leatherface she should be nerfed? Learn how to counter, instead of crying that you cant loopy loop
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@Redd I honestly believe Myers is the most balanced killer in the game.
Huntress is stronger than Myers but she has pretty easy counters to her and most maps are terrible for her. There is just so many obstacles and line of sight breakers in maps for her to be viable on any map that isn’t MacMillan or Autohaven. Plus you can hear her coming from a MILE away.
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@miaasma There is no reason Spirit should have a nerf besides the fact that YOU don’t like playing against her.
I personally HATE Legion and wish that they were never added to the game but I’m not gonna make threads saying how much I despise Legion.
Spirit has counterplays, a good one will more than likely win though. Spirit and Nurse are the only two killers that is near impossible to beat when the player is really good.
Spirit is also one of the few viable killers against good survivors. We need viable killers, don’t butcher my bb Spirit.
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where did i call for spirit to be nerfed, i didn't make this thread
this also has nothing to do with preference
just because you personally enjoy playing spirit doesn't mean she's well designed or has any counterplay whatsoever lol
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@miaasma Funny how you don’t think Spirit is well designed when your profile picture insinuates that you’re a Blendette main. Maybe if you ran Iron Will or Spine Chill you wouldn’t have an issue with anybody playing Spirit. Ya know...instead of licking a wall like most Blendette players do.
I don’t have an issue playing as or against a Spirit. I survive and die as much as any other killer. Every killer has counterplay and Spirit is no exception.
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Op be like
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i'm sorry, we're now making in-depth judgments based on profile pictures? are we serious? lmao
nice to know you resort to baseless mudslinging when someone argues your favourite killer has no counterplay. sorry if that makes you feel inadequate
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@Sairek by that logic, she would also be able to walk thru walls which would be even more frustrating for survivors. Watch what you ask for as it may have unforeseen consequences...
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@SairekThats why your logic is faulty.
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since when has this game ever been based on logic, what is this garbage
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Look, I hate playing against Spirit with a passion, but she's fine right now.
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@miaasma Not my fault your mindset is still survivor sided. Trust me...I was the same way, hence the name “MegMain”. Bitching and moaning that a killer doesn’t have counterplay when they clearly do only makes you sound more whiny. Sometimes a killer is just better than you are, it’s that simple. You’re trying to butcher a killer that has SLIGHT power in a chase. In no way is Spirit uncounterable.
I was also not being serious about the Blendette comment. I’m a very sarcastic person IRL so I say things like that all the time.
I was basically telling you to run Iron Will and Spine Chill if you have an issue. If you get triggered over something small like that then you’re even MORE whiny than I thought you were when I first commented to you.
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you really don't have any intention of discussing this topic in good faith if you continue to cling to the "run this perk to counter spirit" point despite multiple people pointing out why it's an inadequate response to requests for examples of counterplay
the rest of your post is just fluff. calling people whiny, survivor sided and telling them they want to "butcher" a killer (reminds me of pre-patch legion mains complaining about the imminent rework) just by pointing out that it has no counterplay. wanting to level the playing field is not tantamount to "butchering" a killer. this post just communicates to me that you have no real response and are just lashing out at the prospect of your favourite killer being a wheelchair
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@miaasma A wheelchair? Girl please. If you actually played killer against good survivors you’d notice that survivors typically have the upper hand unless you’re using the top four killers or moris.
Legion pre-rework actually had no counter. Spirit does. You’re sitting here complaining about the dumbest damn things. Maybe you’ve gotten your ass eaten too many times by a Spirit but if you’d actually try counters then you’d have more success.
...and yes, I stated AGAIN that you have perks to use to counter her. Use them, if not...don’t ######### and moan that she is uncounterable.
They are working on things that have no actual counterplay. They fixed Legion and now Mettle of Man is getting a rework. The ONLY thing that Spirit has that has zero counterplay is Prayer Beads, which I agree should be reworked. Other than that she is fine as is.
I’m also pretty sure if you’d look back at the responses, the majority of the people on this thread aren’t agreeing with what you’re saying. So don’t be coming at me sideways saying that my responses are inadequate when all I have to do is look at your vote ups vs vote downs ¯\(ツ)/¯. Is that enough “fluff” for you or do I have to S P E L L it out for you?
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literally speaking to a brick wall
have fun with your braindead killer
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