to all people saying "nurse basekit is fine"
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The devs are EXTREMELY conservative to make balance changes in this game, probably because they know that 1. the community is so entitled on both sides it causes an outrage every time something balance-related is released and 2. they know they don't have the manpower and time to revisit said changes efficiently if they backfire.
I do think this game would be miles better with a small, dedicated balance team that listens to good players, but the community isn't mature enough for that, clearly. It's obvious to see every time someone suggests nerfs to Nurse or anything that makes looping slightly weaker. The entitlement in this community is absurd.
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I agree with this for about 85% of it. However, in the case of nurse. You have nurse mains saying she is OP, survivors dcing/giving up simply because it is a nurse, killers avoiding playing nurse knowing it is brutal to play as on the survivor side, and the best logical argument for counters for the nurse is 'Use Brain' or 'Break LOS' in which has been all but proven to only work for so long. Not to mention everyone calls the killer 'god' tier.
Now, as many people say it takes skill to use nurse. I couldn't disagree with that statement more. It takes muscle memory to get down the blink distance. It takes basic predictions that you make with ALL killers to be god tier.
The only time a nurse that really loses is either full swf that can pound out generators or the nurse player themselves is god awful. However, with the swf group usually the play is to try and at least get someone out. You can say 'nurse counters swf', however, this again makes her viable for all the wrong reasons.
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I agree with that.
That's why I said people freak out unnecessarily when you debate Nurse nerfs. She should be nerfed or adjusted or whatever term you prefer, but people are against that simply because the "us vs them" circlejerk is so strong in this community.
That's the problem with the asymetrical aspect of this game really. In any other game, everybody plays the same game and people understand what they're talking about. In this community, most people are just focused on one side and have no idea of how to look at things as a whole to say what's too strong or not.
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Truer words have never been spoken...
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This, this is wisdom.
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Ok, faking movements what this does is again attempting to get the nurse to blink the wrong way. However, this saves you one set of blinks.
He had dead hard in most cases unless the nurse is able to instant come out of the blink into a hit is a free escape. Again Dead Hard isn't skill it is a free dash and invincibility.
LOS breakers it is probably the nurse attempted to go through the wall. This is actually the worst idea as I have stated earlier you want to remove the LOS problem.
Please tell me how Corn maps are any good indicators of balance? In fact I will give it Nurse is terrible in corn maps even good ones. You have the fatigue which makes you look down which means you lost the corn battle. You can't see where they went this isn't OMG GOD TIER JUKE MY DUDES. Nurse must be balanced. Just because Nurse has a severe weakness in corn doesn't mean she is balanced.
Again this is cherry picking for the argument. The first argument this generally only works one or two times. You adapt to what the player is going to do more often so you will blink in the middle and then blink to them on the second blink. Dead Hard - Is a nice counter to nurse I won't lie. However, a perk should not mean she is balanced or that the survivor was skillful. The core mechanic is broken if he didn't have dead hard GGEZ for that nurse. Corn is not skillful it is dependent on the players eyes. Some people have corn blindness some don't. Again this just doesn't equate to balance or skill.
However, all these tactics you will do as generally any other killer. Waiting for the dead hard, Trying to outplay the mind-game. This doesn't mean the mechanics of nurse takes skill. Nurse's mechanics are solely based on time/distance ratio which is a muscle memory trait.
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Imagine asking for nerfs because a 3000 hours CSGO player beats players that have 500 hours. The CSGO community would castrate you. In DBD, a cult is formed and the 3000 hour player is OP and needs nerfed. That's where we are with Nurse debate.
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@Sluzzy I mean alright there I don't see the full point now we are bringing in some mystical hours here. I mean I guess when someone with 3000 hours plays nurse and loses nurse should get a buff. Those 3000 hours I can genuinely say at least 500-1000 hours is lobby time for most people. Let's not forget there are two sides killer and survivor with how many different killers. A person doesn't usually dedicated 3000 hours to the same killer. Let's also not forget it counts app run-time not gameplay time. So when DBD doesn't fully close properly and steam considers it 'running' you gain hours that you didn't even play. In addition to general AFK time.
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You missed my point entirely.
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You are comparing essentially an FPS game with an Asymmetric horror game.
Definition of asymmetrical. 1 : having two sides or halves that are not the same :
However, when the balance of someone on one side completely dominates gameplay no matter what the other team does. Which I have already said is not skillful play to begin with. You are comparing two people with similar mechanics one with more experience. Vs Nurse who generally just avoids most mechanics of gameplay. I don't get your point please explain. @Sluzzy
Post edited by Jdsgames on1 -
Face-camping didn't make winning impossible, in fact survivors had a counter which if they would bother using had a 75% win-rate on-paper.
Hook-sabo did prevent the killer from winning; killers had to force a de facto draw if they could not carry anyone to the basement, by performing the much harder task(than doing gens) of slugging everyone.
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You have no point. Time played DOES NOT equate to skill. Even I put thousands of hours into something I don't have a talent for, I'm not going to be better than people with the potential to be really good. Plenty of players have countless hours in games but can't reach the higher skill plateaus.
Talking about time played ignores the only fact that matters: good nurse skill negates good survivor skill. It was the same with the old broken legion. Negating the skill another player has is not good game play. Full stop.
The debate has not changed. People who understand the game are trying to show how broken the nurse is, and people who don't understand the game are giving useless advice on how to beat nurse, changing the subject to point out other over powered things, and talking about
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LOL for real dude? Face camping makes it impossible FOR THE GUY ON THE HOOK to win. What now? Just because there is some counter tactic doesn't make the original tactic any less broken.
If you wanted to get hooks against perma-sabo run Iron Grasp and Agitation. You can see why this sort of thinking is a problem now, yes?
You are defending something that is literally game breaking, justifying it with "well the OTHER players can still escape". GTFO bro.
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You want survivors to be even stronger than killers. You want to bring the skill ceiling of a killer down to the same level as the rest which is already smaller than survivors. I'll make it easier to understand. On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the highest potential. You want a scale 10 nurse to lose to all levels of skill for survivors.
No point in playing killer if you know your skill is meaningless.
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I created this thread because i really get bored of rank 1 survivors. They all just die without even having a chance and i think nurse is an issue since years along with the time problem for any other killer expect billy, spirit and scotts huntress.
like i said i would wish an heavily nurse nerf (yes, some of us killer mains like scott, zubat, me) really wish that and a better time management for the other like 10 killers). I recommend anyone here to watch scottjunds youtube video "operation stypic agent" and still dont know why devs dont talk to people like zubat/scott/jen/morf for balance feedbacks because the game would definitely benefit from it.
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Honestly @Sluzzy you have no reasonable idea of balance. Do you want killers that are so powerful playing the other side is meaningless not even dependent on your skill. Think of it like a scale of 1 to 10 where 10 being the skill cap of survivors. Do you really want to completely diminish the skill cap of the survivor to the point it is meaningless to play? Yes, I can really turn your entire argument backwards. You simply don't want balance and you obviously are looking to hide how broken Nurse really is.
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A 75% win-rate in any competitive game is not just good, it's dominating.
Not enough though, because one person has to be given-up. It's fine when that one person having a lousy time is the killer though, just don't dare let it be a survivor.
You've deflected enough and still haven't responded on the matter of the blatant double-standards. The survivors preferred playstyle did not come about because they developed it, through practice or experiment. It came about because they persistently lobbied for it at the expense of every alternative, including the killers being able to make diverse choices.
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I disagree. Four survivors at scale 10 I believe can still beat a scale 10 nurse. Nobody wants that tournament to happen because the devs would have to nerf gen repair times or actually buff the nurse.
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I believe in a thing called balance. When I am not a nurse main myself playing nurse easily swiftly getting 4ks while other killers I can tell it is much harder to do so. Playing survivor and seeing nurse even when close to one gen left start slugging to get the 4k try to play slugging killers without and slugging perks as effectively as nurse can. It simply isn't the same. If that is so hard for you to realize I can clearly tell that you do not play high rank survivor or killer. I can 4k as Huntress and Wraith, however, I have to work for it unlike playing nurse where even walls are no longer a problem. Can you imagine if huntress hatchets just kept going through walls?
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If we're talking in terms of scales, you've got to remember This Is Spinal Tap.
Why did the amp go up to 11? Because it made it louder than amps that only go up to 10. Why didn't it just have 10 but it's 10 is louder? Because this one goes up to 11.
Thus we have a problem and sometimes people trip over the truth but carry on as if nothing happened. The problem is that most killers only go up 6 as their top-setting; no matter how good you are you can't squeeze a 10 performance out of a killer that only goes to 6.
We do not know what the Nurse goes up to: she can only be measured against survivors. The structure of most survivor complaints about the Nurse is the same as most killers complaints about the survivors: there is nothing you can do against a good X, they control the game, it doesn't matter if most of X have poor performance because the few at the top are unbeatable.
This why we're not seeing nonsense about the Nurse in fact being too easy to play for the return on investment and the focus is hilariously on addons. Go tell that to a Nurse-main in 2017, where it was de facto the case that addons were a hinderance; the best Nurse's didn't use them because they spoilt muscle-memory. Nothing has changed since then regarding her addons or her base kit. The only thing that can explain now why her addons are supposedly OP is that survivors have become much worse at the game. Now you have a player who can manage 6 with the Nurse(a 10-setting killer) beating survivors(who are also 10-settings) and the reason is because survivor has become so easy they're not used to putting any effort in, even a 6-effort.
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If you were in a proper SWF, that slugging would never work. There's also perks to counter slugging. You are comparing sub-optimal play against a nurse. You want clumbsy playstyles to win against a top-tier killer.
You are still dismissing the highest potential for survivors and want zero counter against it.
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BECAUSE THERE IS NO DOUBLE STANDARD.
You're the one saying there is then pointing to something that is blatantly broken as proof. No, it's not proof of any double standard. Face camping to body block unhook prompt is BROKEN, it's impossible to save. How is this so hard to comprehend. You have to be trolling at this point, I'm convinced.
And you say I'm deflecting when all you have done is try to justify a very clearly broken aspect of the game. Nurse is debatable. Body block unhook prompts is not. It's broken. BROKEN BROKEN BROKEN. That's why it was removed. And it's the same reason permanent hook sabo was removed. BROKEN. I'll say it again, there is no double standard. If something is clearly broken, it gets fixed. Doesn't matter if it's killer or survivor.
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As much as I've tried to explain, you have tried just as hard to keep derailing. Your purpose in replying is not debate.
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Right and claiming imaginary double standards is SMH 🤦♂️
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Just stop derailing and we can have a discussion, but I'm about done and don't think further discussion between us would produce any agreement on anything.
You're wedded to the nonsensical idea that survivors playstyles, like pallet-looping, were developed as a consequence of discovering how base game mechanics worked. There are mountains of evidence that can be pointed to that show the developers picked exploits that survivors were using and turned them into supported game features, with survivors actively lobbying the devs to do so(and they still do). Naming such examples just led you to pick one out and then suggest I was saying things that I wasn't.
You know exactly what you're doing and are in no position to accuse anyone else of trolling.
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You have no evidence other than what you made up dude. Unless you work at BHVR you have no way to know their motivations.
I've actually studied game design, so I know what principles they are following. They created a game with certain mechanics, those mechanics interact to form dynamics, and then they tweak the game to make those dynamics more interesting and balanced. Dynamics are the natural evolution of a game's design. And yes, I could be wrong, but they DO NOT just change stuff because they feel like it or because they favor one side or the other, that is for sure. Because no developer does that. Not unless they want to purposely destroy their own product.
Until you acknowledge that your whole "double standard" bull ######### is just that, then yes there can be no agreement between us because you fail to see the bigger picture and can't accept when something on your side is legitimately and undisputably broken.
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??? I don't get why you at'd me. Are you claiming there is a double standard also?
I agree that gens go too fast and I've said many times elsewhere that there needs to be a max limit to how fast they can get done. But I can also acknowledge that it's not an easy problem to solve, because anything you do to balance the game at the highest level against survivors will have exponentially negative effects on lower rank survivors, who are already punching bags for killers. I'm willing to accept that a solution won't come overnight, but I feel pretty confident that BHVR is at least working on a solution.
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nice NOED :)
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Never makes it that far only other useful piece I got on her. She is what lvl 21 LOL. @ScottJund it is just icing on the cake. Also it is a perk any killer can use it just simply puts it out there. They didn't even make it to insta-down nurse end game yet.
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The survivors are really crying on this thread lol
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I guess I am a god tier nurse wizard. Looking at the games above. Notice rank is increasing not staying the same <3 Double Pipping most games.
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I’m also double pipping in most of my games <3 although I’m not Nurse. :P
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@GrootDude since the argument is nurse takes skill to win her games. I simply must say you are facing unskilled survivors. That or maybe my survivors were not using their brains 0_0.
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The way to fix Nurse is to make her base kit have four blinks. Charge speed tripled and max distance and blink speed doubled. Remove stun time by 50%. Then she is balanced.
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I would love to see this tbh. Ziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip right across the map. "I want a short blink" taps goes to the other side of the map XD. God tier nurses would have macros set for ms distance timings to just snipe you XD
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Generally speaking they were team slugged or already on third hook for the dcs. Although, it really doesn't matter I just find humor in how people can defend it. I was simply pointing out this isn't some legacy feat that requires soo many years of mastery to perform well with the killer. However, 100% Kinda wish most Red Rank survivors were like that. I get potato teams constantly. @Heru_Ra_Ha
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This is the most heated thread I've seen in a while.
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that guy in video maybe first hour of nurse or hes one of the sheep no talent at games
for me its looks like 30mins of my exped, because i played lots of other games before dbd
if you can call thats not bad maybe i can feels like im in "the invention of lying" scene
and wanting to born in your region
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OOf, u got me :P
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You should have known with the skills that it takes to play nurse that you needed to play stealthy, break LOS, and obviously just use your brain. I generally use to believe this was true. Especially the part that use to be said that she takes skill. Until I started playing the killer for like a month.
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I use to say “just use stealth” but I started playing her more. Survivors tried to use stealth but in the end I still got the 3/4K.
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Can't stealth against 1001 tracking perks. LOL @GrootDude
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You could have accomplished the same thing with Wraith. What I see here is survivors that are not good enough, maybe they didn't understand nurse counterplay, they could have been trying to get to rank 1 for the first time. They could have been casually playing and not caring if they survived or not while you were tryharding to win. Wait until you meet the rank 1 SWF team that knows what they are doing and you'll be begging the entity for mercy
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I hate to tell you I play huntress and wraith at R1 I simply didn't play as much this season. If I can play Nurse a killer whom I play on rarity at purple ranks with basic experience and still dominate. Sorry to tell you the killer is not only not hard to pickup but easy to 4k with. @Sluzzy
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Yeah, that is true especially when you have tighter maps with smaller gen setups. Even if you were able to decent stealth down to a few remaining gens. She just has to gen-patrol like any other killer. Except she can probably check 2 at a time while blinking.
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The easiest part to learn is her blink distance so if you have those survivors running in a straight line then yes it will be easy to 4K. The next part and you can have a million hours and still learning is 'predicting' survivors that are 'unpredictable'. Its somewhat like Spirit, a mindgame of predicting the other. For example, most survivors on Lery's is easy to predict, blink into the next room where you think they are and gottem. But then the god survivors will bring you to your knees....using 2 blinks on Lery's and its a gg. I hate Lery's when the survivors are good! LOS....her weakness. Several other maps, all corn maps (especially Rotten Fields!), the Spirit Map is a Claudette's dreamland. That big house on the new Huntress map is also a big maze for nurse - you are better off with a loopable killer there (when the survivors are unpredictable that is).
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Well I just don't think there is a bar of evidence that can be met that would change your mind.
You having studied game-design doesn't mean anything, except that you should be held to higher standards, not lower.
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