to all people saying "nurse basekit is fine"
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Leatherface is life now, Piccolo ain’t worth my chainsaws time. >:v
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If like you say a killer is going to search the area, isn't that the perfect time to make an escape, when he's distracted. You can play for stealth but plan for a chase. Being in a wooded area or in the cornfield is a great place to lose a nurse. Lery's has walls the nurse can't blink through. I've seen plenty of survivors who think they're safe by a pallet and get punished for it but in a big open area the nurse can't predict which direction i'm going to go
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If they are not a survivor problem then why do they complain about then so much?
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@Gardenia @Sluzzy You are both wrong. Looping is a dynamic that emerged from the game's mechanics. It's not something anyone forced, it's a natural evolution of the game's design. Therefore, as developers, it makes sense to take this into consideration when designing new killers, perks, maps, etc.
IDK if you noticed, but new jungle gym tiles were added to Red Forrest maps. These tiles allow for looping, it's just in a different pattern than the old loops. Where the old loops were basic circles or figure 8's, the new loops are more complex (I know one looks kind of like a butterfly if you look at the loop from above).
This is the devs having a better understanding of the looping dynamic and then trying to create new gameplay spaces that fit that dynamic.
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Then you are picking different standards when it suits you. We are not even slightly in agreement.
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Yes, the new maps have more LOS breakers for more counterplay against nurse as well.
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You say it's an evolution of the game but that evolution could of been more stealth focused if the survivors choose that route of gameplay. EGC is an evolution of survivors decided they just going to cause hatch stand offs instead of doing gens.
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No it couldn't, because the game is ultimately about time efficiency. Looping is like a clock, you can do X amount of loops before the killer catches up (assuming you don't mind game/juke for extra time). The X depends on the type of loop, and the type of loop determines how much times is spent to complete the loop.
Stealth, on the other hand, is not as clear cut. You can spend ages searching an area for someone, or seconds. There is no consistency to it. There is no way to say "it will take the killer this amount of time to find a survivor" because there are too many factors to consider. Yes, it is another dynamic of the game but it's not one that can be planned for. Devs can design loops in a very mathematical way to synergize with this dynamic. They can't exactly do this for stealth, at least not without making it arbitrarily more easy/difficult in the process. So it makes more sense to opt for a more neutral approach to stealth, where it's considered but not explicitly the basis for the design.
As for EGC, that's an evolution of a flaw in design, specifically the fact that the last survivor can just hide indefinitely and draw out the game, or the fact that if both players stand on the hatch neither can really act without losing the encounter, so they are just stuck in a stalemate indefinitely. Survivors didn't do these things because they wanted to, they did them because those were the only options. So the design was changed so that these situations don't exist anymore.
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4 awesome random survivors is rarer than a god tier nurse and they are not winning almost every game. The escape rate of 4 SWF (which represent 3-6% of the playerbase) is around 50% while solos have an escape rate of 40%. The nurse on the other hand has an insane kill rate (I don’t have the exact number but somebody posted in another thread that it is around 70%). Do you see the problem here?
I don’t think there is anything to be gained from arguing with someone who disregarded all the arguments and came to the conclusion that we are posting in this thread because we dislike the nurse, and think that looping is an abuse of the game mechanics and does not involve any thinking, be here I am.
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I have news for you. Ghostface has similar killrate.
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You make a good point, i might not agree with all of it, i feel like they early days were more about stealth then survivors learned how useful looping is and steered the game in towards that direction.
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But see, that's just players figuring out the dynamic. When the game first came out, these dynamics didn't really exist because players didn't understand the game. Now we do, and as such those dynamics evolved naturally from just understanding the game better. No one steered the game to do anything, you have to think of it as looping existed in the game since the beginning but it wasn't discovered until player skill got to a certain point.
Like, electricity has existed since the beginning of the universe, just humans didn't discover it until the 19th/20th century and now we have computers and stuff because we understand how electricity actually works and can take advantage of it for our benefit. In theory we could have been using it thousands of years ago, but we didn't have the necessary understanding to do so. Not the best example, but it adds to my point.
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Im really tired of whining survivor mains im gonna delete this game so ######### awful community
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Because those people at least can stay on a ground for at least 30-40 seconds against them because they are simply to learn to play against while nurse requires to do something else other than running around and dropping pallets.
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Could that theory not be apply to the nurse? The counter play for the nurse has always existed but since only a handful of players play the nurse and have the best understanding of her the majority of community haven't figure that out yet. Wasn't botany considered witchcraft by people who didn't understand it.
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Kind of. There is definitely probably still stuff to discover in the game. I mean, people are still discovering new tricks in games like OG Doom and stuff. But the catch is that the game is still evolving from a design standpoint. We get new killers, new perks, new maps, updates/changes to the game, etc. So when it comes to undiscovered or uncommon dynamics, it will take longer for them to come to fruition. If the game was just left as is for a long period of time (I'm talking like years, not weeks or months) then the emergence of new stuff will be more frequent.
Like every time there is an update to the core mechanics of the game (ie. window vaults) then things need to kind of reset and get back to where they were previously before new things can really be pushed out to the general community.
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The point i'm making is i do best against the killers i've put the time into to play as. I've learnt the counters from having them used on me, i've also learnt to counter some of the counters. I don't think the nurse is the be all end all killer of the game and survivors need to learn not nerf.
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I agree. I main Spirit, so I know how to play against her. I also use Iron Will and Spine Chill all the time, partially to hard counter Spirit/Nurse but also because they are good perks regardless of the killer. I can't stand how some people say "perks are not counter play" when these 2 perks completely change how well you do against particular killers. It's like night and day.
Do I win against every Spirit I play? No. But I am usually the most difficult survivor to catch of my friends because I play her and I'm equipped to counter her. Usually I die because I make a dumb mistake or the killer makes a good move, not because the Spirit is overpowered or anything.
Also just FYI, the ones saying Nurse is OP are not all survivor mains. Quite a few of them are killer mains here. I wouldn't go assuming stuff like that it just hurts the discussion.
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@thesuicidefox if you can't waste the nurses time with a pallet you need to waste her time by making her look behind every tree or search every bit of corn after she becomes fatigued.
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You are grasping for straws right now.
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Stating facts is not grasping for straws, especially when the other side is not providing any counter argument. Use the metaphor in the right context next time.
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Saying ghostface uses mori's all the time is not "fact" unless the devs tell us so. The devs have said nurse and ghostface have similiar killrates when they defended that ghostface was in a good spot. I, for one, would think it would be irresponsible for them to nerf nurse and remove a viable killer from red ranks.
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This is patently not true.
Survivors used infinite-loops and when the devs acknowledged they were game-breaking and needed removing, survivors were then intensively lobbying for pallets to be made fool-proof. The changes made to pallets enabled looping as we now know it; prior to those changes the risk that a killer would lunge through a falling pallet was too-high for them to be reliable for anything other than creating temporary distance so a survivor could escape a chase. This did not exist because it was undiscovered; it exists because there was a mechanical change made to pallets due to feedback from survivors who has been taking advantage of a bug that gave them full Boldness points and realised mis-using them to grief the killer was more fun than using them to win chases.
It's the same story with almost every feature that defines this game as it is now.
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Not sure what you're getting at. It's entirely valid to say survivors created those problems because they have a single playstyle that they favour above any alternative and have successfully pressured the devs to orient the game towards it.
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Can some of you explain to me why depip squad did 4 man escapes vs nurse on rank 1 without any perks equipped?
That nurse sucked and they played well, there's the explanation.
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I love this forum :)
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I thought, that only the best players were able to face the depip squad...
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That doesn't negate the fact it was discovered that you can waste a killer's time by basically running in a circle. Infinites are just the precursor to the current loops. All the devs did was removed the ability to do it forever, and tweaked it over time to make it more balanced. It was inherent to the game's design, just very very unbalanced at first.
The devs could have completely done away with looping and tried to create some new dynamic, but that would require new mechanics which means changing the core design of the game. Rather than do that, they just changed what was there until we get to where we are today. And it's still being worked on, as we are in the process of getting new map layouts where there are weaker but more plentiful loops.
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I've never heard anyone say that The Nurse's base kit is balanced. She's OP even without add-ons. It is known.
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What if they both played well?
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Nurse wins
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No, that is a theory. It was once a theory the Earth was flat. But it has been proven that the Earth is now a oblate spheroid. It has also been proven the nurse is not op.
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Checked 2 matches (that's all the time i'll invest to make a reply for you) and yes, both nurses did pretty bad and fell for obvious mindgames.
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you have to git gud and stop complaining the whole time.
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I play red ranks on both killer and survivor (but am a killer main) and nurse is broke as hell. "Just use stealth" doesn't work when she can blink onto gens from outside her terror radius.
Things like corrupt intervention are also insanely strong on her. Then once she sees you there is about 0 counterplay to a good nurse unless you happen to be near some godly objects.
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lol ######### logic is that? "She's hard to use so its okay she breaks the game."
If you agree to that, you have to agree if they made a killer that required some unbelievable amount of speedrunner-tier mechanical finesse whose power just instantly killed all the survivors it would be okay because it would be extremely hard to do with an extremely high skill cap?
Like you gotta realize how dumb that argument is
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Would you like to prove this Nurse counterplay in KYF?
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Nuff said first time 'round. Nurse has no counterplay. End of story. If you think you're good and you know the perfect strategy that you do it all the time to counter nurse... sorry to burst your bubble... but counter playing nurse is just whether or not the nurse makes mistakes. Has nothing to do with you little guy
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Tell me what it is? Once you have the blinks down it's pretty damn hard to miss. And even if you do, it's only a few seconds before you get to try again.
It doesn't matter that it takes a while to learn her, because once you do it's busted. She's op without any add-ons.
Stealth is irrelevant half the time because you can blink into visual range of the gens from outside the terror radius if you know how to play; especially if you run monitor.
All I see are killers defending nurse who probably rely on her for thier ranks because they are bad at mindgames and looping; which are the actual skillful mechanics of this game.
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I am both shocked and surprised to learn you are not good at the game to offer such fine gems of advice as "just run at the Nurse 4Head"
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I'm ignoring your advice because your advice is terrible.
But yes, this does work on bad Nurses, which since you admitted you are bad at survivor, I assume is all you are versing.
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This is the mentality of people who believe Nurse is balanced. Sorry to single you out, but this kind of comment is seen too often in these threads about Nurse. Survivors who don't have experience playing against real Nurses talking like they know what they are talking about.
I just watched 9 of the de-pip squad's nurse games. Holy cow, what a waste of time. Of those 9 matches only 1 nurse had ruin. Despite not having dead hard or any exhaustion perks these Nurses were failing to down any of the survivors for minutes at a time. The final one I watched (game map - a great map for nurse) saw the nurse not get a single hook until 2 and a half minutes into the game.
The only decent nurse I saw was on the game map (different nurse than I mentioned before). I hesitate to call this batch of Nurses bad, but wow. Those who haven't seen the de-pip squad's games against Nurses, please watch. After so many people referencing it as proof that nurse is beatable, I admit I was slightly curious if my opinion that nurse is broken was flawed. For those who haven't watched, please do. It's a lesson on how not to play against SWF groups.
2 Nurses that I saw were just memeing (no perks or addons), almost no nurse had ruin, despite no exhaustion perks on the survivors these Nurses had trouble downing anyone for loooong stretches of time. No Gen pressure. Blinks to nowhere. Sorry to say, but all that experiment prooves is that they played some truly not good Nurses.
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If you want to change the subject to mere running in a loop, fine, but you're no longer discussing whether the game has changed purely because players know things now that they didn't know then; you're actively avoiding how the game has changed in design and mechanics and the role which one section of the player-base had in that.
Looping was an exploit that the devs weren't even aware of; they didn't even know there was a difference in the collision-boxes of survivors and killers, or at least acted as if that were the case. Even when pallet-looping was introduced through the pallet buffs, they had no idea what it was and were misled by survivors playing dumb and arguing that killers should counter it by 'breaking the pallet'. This led to Bloodlust being introduced to mitigate pallet-looping, which it of course doesn't do at all; the devs believed pallet-looping to be survivors running around a pallet that was already down.
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If you say nurse breaks the game, then four good survivors break the game. You are not catching four good survivors 12 times on bloodlodge with a loopable killer!
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..I..I know? What?
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Theres no counterplay for nurse.
You just make moves and pray that she makes a mistake. It's entirely in the killers control.
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Remove nurse and spirit and all pallets? Or keep it the way it is and everyone is happy?
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