The One Stop Shop for Legion ideas! Come on in and take a look...
Comments
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ALso, I think all the button add-ons would be FINE if they would apply on first hit! The stun aint worth it!
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I also think the KI add-ons are pointless. Sure I know that guy is WAY over there, but I can't get to him in FF and by the time I CAN get there the info is pointless.
What do yall think?
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So you still have no ability to down a survivor, just no terror radius and red stain, and abit faster movementspeed. Did I understand that right?
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Yep! Though I do hope you looked at all of the ideas there.
The main reason you can't DOWN in FF is cause it would be broken. You would be able to down anyone you wanted, cause they are 100% not getting away from you going that speed. It's much like Old Legion would put the chase on a "Timer"
They would have to REALLY nerf Legion even more to let them be able to down in FF (as far as I can tell)
Not having a terror radius while in FF would not only fit some of the lore (the perk description for Beast of Prey comes to mind.) but would let you sneak up on the survivor and get that FF hit IN. The increased speed (vaults and all) plus the removal of some of the sillier nerfs (not seeing blood and M1ing costing you 50% of your power) Would also go a long way to helping them out.
But please! Look at the rest of the first post for Mong's Idea and the changes around it as well.
All of the ideas here are very good and need some looking at. Best thing? They ALL keep the Rush down we love so much!
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Already read everyting, but I honestly (its obviously my opinion) I dont like both ideas, no offence! I can totally understand why ppl would play and like those changes. Buffing the current Legion or a kind of "gang" ability to summon other Legion members. But how I said back then, having no Terror Radius in chases doesnt help alot against good survivors especially in swf and is not that fun compared to heavy chase abilitys such as, Spirit, Huntress, Billy, Nurse, Demogorgon etc.
I personally loved the old Legion for the heavily chase ability, it was really fun and requiered some skill, yes you had a skillcap with Legion, even if you dont believe, if not then you never played old Legion or never played against good survivors. I personally preffer a reupdate to the old Legion with some buffs and healthy changes for both sides, the "missing hit and losing the power" is a really good fit to the old Legion because you didnt care if you deplete the power because it will recharge anyway really fast and you can use it whenever you wanted. I already made a own discussion about this topic so I will not explain everything there.
All Killers with such a Ability are bad or unplayed because they are extremly unfun, Trapper (rng), Clown, Leatherface, Old Freddy and now Old Legion.
I hope you can understand me and my view, but still your changes are nice and are well balanced.
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I do hope that down the road the 4 killers on a map hiding in lockers becomes a thing. #LetLegionLive
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WEll, I came back to DBD cause of Legion in the first place. Legion has been what I played since then. I played plenty of old Legion and New Legion. I enjoy the rushdown style, but I feel like Old Legion wasn't made well. New Legion is nerfed into the ground as well. What I'm trying to do is make playing Legion fun and going AGAINST Legion fun. You have to admit that everyone HATED Old Legion cause they were not fun to deal with.
We don't want the Legion hate that something like Old Legion would start again.
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Also to explain a bit on why I want the TR to be gone in FF... well if you see someone get DW and you hear a TR what are you gonna do? Run like mad INSTANTLY. This fixes that
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and now for an idea from @Exerlin !
They need some way to use their power to help get a down.
Maybe they could get a charge attack available in Feral Frenzy that lets them leap/lunge forward after a ~2 second charge, taking away 1 health state. You could start the charge by holding down the attack button instead of tapping it. Letting go of the attack button before it's fully charged could instantly reduce the charge bar to zero, but not remove any FF charge.
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and now some input from @Volfawott
I would like to see them get some of rework to see that power makes the become more impactful the only thing I like about it currently is vaulting pallets.
If that's not the case then these will be some suggestions
Blood
Revert the blood-stained restriction moonwalk exploit is no longer a thing there is no need to have this.
Killer instinct
Can we have the orange outline back for killer instinct the pulsing in the corn is not helpful I have no clue where it was removed in the first place.
Missed attacks
With the restriction that you need a full bar to activate frenzy again there's no point in having a missed swing completely delete the bar but it can still cancel you out of frenzy but have it either cancel you out and half your current progression or just cancel you out of it and keep the remaining progression.
Double tapping
Have an incentive for double tapping a survivor ( no the add-ons don't count)
Firstly they're are add-ons the incentive should be baseline second the benefits they give aren't worth the add-on slot.
Pins: blindness, pseudo sloppy Butcher and even broken are not worth the amount of extra time I waste double tapping you then chasing you with a distance advantage on your side when I could just cancel my power and down you normally
Frank's mixtape: There is very little point in smacking someone with this if you're just going to chase them anyway. ( At least with the pins you can make the excuse of activating the condition and leaving to do something else)
Also considering all the things that will pause the timer it's unlikely you'll ever going to run into a survivor who is just about collapse from Deep wounds
As I said before you waste more time giving them a speed boost whilst going into fatigue then having to catch up and initiate the actual chase than you would if you just cancelled out frenzy and initiate the chase without the speed boost from the second frenzy hit.
So Bassline they need something to incentivise a choice between cancelling a frenzy and risking the double tap.
Add-ons
I've already made posts and comments about their add-ons before so I don't feel like fully going into it again.
However
Fuming mixtape
Frank's mixtape
Stab wounds study
These need to be reworked they don't really work that well with the new kit
Get rid of all the add-ons that increase the killer instinct detection range and just replace increasing movement speed again. If I wanted a larger detection range I could just bring monitor and abuse or distressing
Also if a survivor starts running in advance you're not going to hit them so the last thing I need to do is just see more survivors I won't hit.
Make the pins either proc better effects or just have them proc on the first frenzy hit not the second I've spoken above about how ineffective double tapping is.
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Well I cant honestly understand why ppl hated Legion, even my best friend that is survivor main over 2k hours says that he s completly fine with old Legion and misses them. And on the old Legion you had no issue catching survivors with frenzy even with a big Terror Radius, only the old Legion has a issue with that, because of a even bigger TR compared to the old Legion and waaaaay slower movementspeed.
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And if you will come up with "Legion had no counterplay", Legion defenetly had counterplay, you could easy juke even a good Legion because of no scratch marks especially with iron will, you can hide behind objectiles around corners where the killer would not expect that. Or trying to stun the frenzy and make a long distence between you and them.
Now ppl would say that is not enough counterplay, well nurse and spirits has even lesser counterplay and legion was NEVER on their level, not even close. So yeah I srsly dont see what the problem is, I mean now ppl start to cry about spirit for some reason and I can kind of understand that, because she is really strong and has alot of really strong addons, Legion? Nothing, just low amount of counterplays and 1 really strong addon (Franks mixtape) and thats it.
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No, I understand what you mean. I merely feel making them BACK into what there were is counter productive. They need something... fresh. They need something that is up to date with how the game is now, and can work how it is now. I honestly feel that changing them back, even with ways to make them non exploitable or whatever, isnt the right step.
Let's be fair and honest, even back in the day Legion was kinda bad. You know it, I know it. We need something... more. Something fun and interesting on both sides. Taking them back to Old Legion? IT feels like a step back, not forward.
I know this is my opinion and you are more okay having your own. But I honestly feel in my... bones, heart or whatever you want, that just taking them back to how they used to be will not help anything, and will prolly hurt them more. THEN we'd have to wait years for them to change them, AGAIN.
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I understand you, and I know that Legion was bad, but I preffer one aspect that holds me into this game, the reason why i bought this game and stopped playing world of warcraft high progress raiding.
Its fun, even if Legion was bad and it was really hard doing kills, I had ALOT of fun with Legion, thats why it was my main. Maybe my opinion is just blinded by the love of the old Legion gameplay and are not neutral or constructive enough, but it is how I feel about Legion so yeah. I am really sorry to dissapoint you.
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Naw man, you don't disappoint me. Here, I got an idea. Come up with something that kinda feels the same in your head as Old Legion, but is something new. I'd love to hear it. Take some time and really think it out, and I promise to give you some good feedback.
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So I'll start with the first 7 points made.
1: This could be interesting, but there needs too be some way a survivor knows you are coming, because otherwise Legion will always get a free hit, and would make him unfair and unfun. I would say give him a normal Terror Radius, but remove the Red Stain.
2: I know it was removed, but I have too talk about it. All I gotta say is I played against a Myers who had something very similar, he had Monitor + Dead Rabbit and never left tier 2, so his Terror Radius was about 1-2 Meters. We only lived because I found a key in a chest and escape with the other 2 survivors (sorry Bill). Now Imagine Legion having almost the exact same Terror Radius, but he can get a free hit anytime he feels like it.
3: I actually like this Idea. It would make people grouping up a bad idea since he'll pretty much be hard too shake off once he hits enough people. I would also add on that if he hits all 4 people, he gains a 3% speed boost for 15 seconds, so it rewards the Legion for getting the difficult 4 man hit and run.
4: This one sounds good in concept, but it would probably be a little unfun for survivors since there would be practically no point in running away since he'll more then likely catch up. If he has 115% with Feral, then it increases too a max of 120% then it would be fair, but 130% is way too fast. For context, Billy's base chainsaw moves at 230%, so Legion would be running half as fast as Billy.
5: This idea could be good, but I feel a better idea is too rework Deep Wounds entirely so it makes survivors have too worry about it. Making Sloppy base on Legion would be strong, but I don't want Legion too feel too overwhelming, so having Sloppy base + Thana + Deep Wounds would be pretty strong if you add 3 more perks on top of it.
6: Honestly I'm fine with how Mending works right now. I personally wouldn't change it, but the idea presented isn't that bad.
7: This is a little confusing, but if I'm reading it right, it's a little un-needed. The survivor who hears the Terror Radius and the Killer Instinct simply won't need that info, because more then likely you'll be chasing them down. even if you didn't they will be mending and be unable too do anything with the info.
Now for the Mob Mentality it would be really cool too have it ingame. It would give Legion's name some actual use besides cosmetics, and it would make him have some map pressure and give his power more use then a free hit. My only concern is that it's very confusing for a new players. I'm not saying Legion can't be strong, but if a new person doesn't understand his power and gets destroyed by him, it would be unfair for them since it is kinda confusing. I really like the concept though, and it has a lot of potential for both sides, but I feel it needs some more ironing out. My change would be too have an audio cue, such as the Legions Menu Music, but very dimly so you have too listen carefully too pop the trap. This change would help new players fight against him, but give Legion some Red Rank viability.
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1: Well the normal thing with Legion is "Oh that guy just got DW and I hear TR... TIME TO RUN AWAY!!!!" I've had a few survivors say that it would be nice not to be like "Oh no... time to run." cause of the TR. Maybe make Legion louder while in FF then? Not a TR just like, you hear them running or breathing?
2: Yeah, that's why it was removed. It was WAY too much.
3: My thoughts exactly! I love the addition as well.
4: Is that how that percentage works out? cause it's 100% less but its.... yeah no, that's too much math. I honestly would like them to keep the MS we have now base, but the FF I get people SBing away from alot. Add in the slow vault speeds and Legion can be LOOPED IN FF! It always hurts my brain when that happens.
5: Honestly having Sloppy base would me NO ONE WOULD HEAL EVER. I've stopped running Sloppy on Legion cause then no one wastes time healing.
6: Yeah you right.
7:I THINK that Kabu meant that one to be YOU see the KI for x amount of seconds, but I think Kabu changed it to add-on only? I need to ask them.
Now for Mob Mentality... I get what you mean, but part of playing the game is learning how to deal with the powers Killers have. The music would be a nice touch, but i'm not o=100% convinced it would be needed for anything other than lowering the amount of "LEGION OP NERF PLZ" posts you'd see. Now, if you make it quiet so you'd REALLY have to be paying attention to hear it? That's a bit better in my mind.
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This is just a stupid idea i got from this don't know how but what if you could chose to play the members as a survivor and killer how funny would that be xD
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Um, I'm not sure that would make sense... as the Legion is a Killer group.
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True xD
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being able to down survivor on your 3 hit in FF will fix tuneling and make you want to spread it
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I think devs wouldn't chase his power in any of rhe ways above. If they ever buff him, it would be a tweak to numbers, and not a complete ability rework
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I do hope they will at least look at the ideas above. I hope it will be more than just numbers, but if it is numbers at least the Rushdown will still be there.
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The ideas are great, but BHVR is BHVR
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Well, no need to bash the Devs. All I want to do is make a one stop shop for ideas for Legion. If they use them, I would love it and i'd be really happy for whoever made the idea they pick. If they don't at least they can see that there are alot of Legion mains out there that really want to see the changes, and what they would WANT to see.
It's not even so much "DO THIS BVHR" it's "This is what we'd love to see."
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Given the amount of time it took them to fix some very bad issues, and the amount of issues that still have not been fixed, i say we have plenty of reason to bash at them. But i do agree that is an awesome idea
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I will tend to go on the side of "They are doing the best with what they have." I will admit I could be wrong there. But I don't know what is going on at there headquarters, but I know they don't want the game to die. SO i tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.
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Edit: Updated to match @MongByeolBuddies 's new idea. Keeping the one stop shop up to date!
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The wha now?
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I believe a good reasonable buff would be the following:
1. 3 sec fatigue (4 seconds base)
2. Pins proc on first hit (2nd now)
3. Swap out increased KI range for speed add-ons (example <slightly>0.02 <moderately> 0.06 <tremendously> 0.1)
4. Buff fume Mixtape: increase vault speed <window> 1.00 second (1.15 seconds base, max 0.95 seconds) <pallet> 1.20 seconds ( 1.35 seconds base, max 1.05).
5. Frank's Mixtape (Now see blood or scratch marks also hitting a survivor affected by DW applies Hindered <2-5%> repair/heal speed debuff).
6. Stab Wounds Study: removes 10 seconds from DW timer (5 seconds base).
7. Hitting an already DW survivor applies hemerage effect until fully healed.
Tl;Dr only slightly changes are needed.
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The speed add-ons aren't high enough to matter. Bump those a tickle.
You'd only have people running Fuming with that, as Legion can be looped in FF atm.
That would also make Franks REALLY strong, and honestly you should be able to see blood base.
Hemorrhage does nothing.
Sadly, I do not agree with your proposed changes. They seem very very underwhelming.
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The 3rd person Legion hits in FF should be downed or injured instead of put in mending, this will encourage him/her to chase people.
I must say, I was disappointed in Legion after the initial trailer, I imagined taking on the appearance on one of the survivors (maybe the first one you see or something). Then walking up to a gen (maybe even able to repair it!, as you could..oops, missed the skill check or really do some repairing to make the survivor think your not the killer). Then jump scare them and pull them off the gen, perhaps a kicked gen that Legion worked on with a survivor get's the overcharge effect like the killer perk, but without having to bring the perk, or perhaps repairing is slowed by 15% of something).
Maybe FF is fully charged when you make a hook, enabled you to spring off (this may require some other change to have FF is charged, but I'll let someone smarter think on that one).
I want TRAILER Legion!
This was just a thought after really .... most but not all the pages here, so if someone already suggested this....my bad I missed it.
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Oh hey!
Sadly the Devs have said they will NEVER make a disguise Killer. Besides, Voice comms would stomp that power in half. Why would you want to repair the gen and help the other side? Even more so when the other survivors will be working on gens too. It sounds good in theory but it really would NOT be good. Also FF already injures.
Besides a good amount of Legion mains (myself included) enjoy the rush down style of Legion. We want to keep that.
It does remind me of another thread someone proposed but I had the same issues with that one too. If you come up with something that DOES keep the Rush Down style, I will be more than happy to look at it!
Have Fun in the Fog!
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Honestly Legion was, without any doubt, pretty broken at release, but what the devs have done to them has been less of a balance for them, and more of an overkill reaction to the communities complaints. Don't get me wrong, many of the complaints against Legion were well founded, and I wouldn't go so far as to give them back their previous abilities, but a nice middle ground that makes their power a threat again would be welcomed in my book.
I have read your suggestions, and while I like them, I feel it's probably better to start smaller on things to try and make the Legion more viable. For this I'll offer my own 2 suggestions:
- Give Legion back their previous movement and vaulting speeds. In the current build the Legion only benefits from afflicting DW to survivors if they can effectively chain the affliction to multiple survivors on the team. This is impossible in most circumstances currently, due to their slower movement and vaulting speeds, which give survivors far too much wiggle room to evade the Legion until their power runs out. The original version of the Legion still had this problem, but a good player could manage to get all 4 on a mid sized map before their power ran out. This emphasized skill and incentive to try for the 4 hits because it was a possibility with the right add-on's. Current Legion however only does this when the map is very small, or if every survivor is focusing on the same gen, but even then, they typically only hit 2 at the most due to survivors scattering like cockroaches as soon as the first one is struck. Current Legion moves at 5 m/s while in frenzy, whereas old Legion moved at 5.25m/s. Old Legion also Vaulted at the same rate survivors did, but current Legion Vaults at .5 seconds slower than they do, or at the same rate Bamboozle grants to a killer. Comparatively, Old Legions main advantage was the ability to catch up and keep up with survivors, but they also had a 2 second cooldown to slow them down, with that currently increased to 4 seconds, I see no reason why they need to be any slower in Frenzy.
- Reduce the Deep Wounds timer from 30 seconds, to 10. When Legion was changed the Devs already did enough to reduce the Deep Wounds Status effect from a threat to being completely non-threatening, simply by making the timer pause whenever in the killers TR, and making it pause again while the survivor mends. The fact that it retained its 30 second timer is a grossly unjustified at this point. The TR pause alone already killed the possibility of a Legion player "Moonwalking" to allow the timer to bleed them out, but the pause on the mend timer... seriously? As if a survivor outside of the Legions TR and thus out of immediate danger isn't going to immediately start mending? If the timer were 10 seconds instead of 30, survivors would have to pay much more attention to the DW status, and be much more vigilant to mend as soon as they are out of the TR. The Franklin's Mix tape also could benefit in this effect if it reduced the timer by 5 second, which would make a 2 hit + 4 second stun much more worth while if the survivor left the killers TR, and thus make the add-on significant;y more useful than it currently is (by my calculations, to down a survivor with the current FMT add-on, Legion would need to relentlessly pursue and keep striking a survivor for 80+ seconds). IMO, This would make the DW status effect a threat again, and TBH, that is what the Legion really needs right now... to have a power that is either more beneficial to their map control, or a dire and looming threat to survivors affected by it at all times.
There's my 2 cents on the initial and minor buffs I believe the devs should test in an upcoming PTB in order to try and bring Legion more viability than they currently have. It's not much, but the way I see it, Legions game mechanics have always been on a knifes edge since day one. Sway only a little from 1 side to the other and you go from being pathetic to OP or vice versa. Finding a balance with that is really tricky, and doing it right means taking small steps... to that end I feel that either of these minor changes are a good place to start.
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These are good for minor changes and I really do like how you laid them out with such thought. I kinda want to put it on the front page somewhere as a "Hey if you won't do more, why not this?" Kinda option!
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Just remember anyone that is nostalgic for the Old Legion. They were not as good as you remember them, just cause New Legion is crippled. We need something NEW that keeps that Rush down Joy!
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I was hoping that the injuring of the survivor on the 3rd FF hit (during one FF) would keep the rush feel going... I though 4 different survivors might be a little to hard
ok, Maybe not actually be able to repair, but having it appear that you are. Then you might lure other survivors over to FF hit them.
I dunno, just spitballing ideas
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Naw man I get it. I'd prolly be more behind it if Devs hadn't said no to any disguise Killer ever.
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Edit: Made the second post into an area for "Bite Sized" Legion updates! Kinda a stepping stone for bigger changes!
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Now an Idea from @Mister_xD
what would be your thoughts on this Deep Wound change:
when Deep Wound is applied to you, you will get the timer, just like now, being paused.
the timer will stay paused until you start an action such as repair, heal, mend, sabotage, cleanse, etc. this only excludes actions needed for chases like dropping pallets, vaulting things, etc.
once the timer starts, it will not stop. if the timer runs out, you go down. this includes while being in the mending action (you may have to take a look at legions knife add ons then)
that way, survivors inflicted with deep wound would actually have to focus on mending in a safe area instead of just doing gens while the killer is around chasing someone else and it would allow Legion to actually be the game slowing killer they are supposed to be.
you could also reenable the killers ability to see the timer then to know when someone gets rid of their deep wound, as the timer would remain paused when a survivor leaves the TR, so its no longer a free whispers effect.
This one is down here, cause it's more of an idea for DW, but still related to Legion!
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hmm, i really like this idea!
the guy that came up with this must have been a genius! Kappa
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Yes, I wonder who it could have been XD
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Op! I read this idea wrong!
Post edited by UlvenDagoth on0 -
Just something i've noticed but This image:
Seems to be very true.
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Another Smaller idea from @Ark_the_Bonsai
Simple Solution IMO.
- Remove his cooldown or make it incredibly shorter. It's completely pointless now for him to have to wait to reuse feral frenzy so often when he can't down people with it. (change Frank's Mixtape because it's trash as is and is the only reason the long cooldown makes sense)
- Massively pump up his Feral Frenzy movement speed and reinstate the old vault speeds. Why should they be so slow if they can't down anyone. That's illogical when you have people like Spirit and Billy in the game who are both fast and lethal.
With both of these changes he gains a ton of map pressure and knowledge. They'd still be an m1 killer but they'd be able to harass people more often. They'd feel like they're everywhere. They'd feel like a legion.
Didn't put this in the "small updates" section at the start cause I feel it's been stated there before. If i'm wrong, yell at me and i'll fix it.
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one day @Peanits Will comment on this thread! Or I hope so.
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Edited the title cause this is really what this has turned into. I'm still looking for and trying to think up more ideas!
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My friend showed me a clip of them doing multiple killer glitch except all of them had Stridor. (3 killers) and it was #########. He din't have iron will so if you put stridor on legion with this may or may not torture for everyone else
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I am not quite sure what you mean by this. Are you suggesting Stridor base kit, as an add-on, or as part of just a build?
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