The One Stop Shop for Legion ideas! Come on in and take a look...
Comments
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build. It would be insanely loud if you had stridor on with this change
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Which change?
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Welp, I'm sick as a dog so I wont be likely to think up any more ideas for Legion for a bit. But if you HAVE an idea or want me to add it to the front or something LET ME KNOW! I will be here!
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But good news! BHVR has read this thread!
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Okay, quick thought. Why is it so punishing to miss as Legion? You lose your power AND get stunned.
I don't think there is another Killer that has this issue, right?
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Also one more thing for the people that want Old Legion back... some quotes I found about them at the time:
Also, Legion OP? Annoying, for sure, but he's still trash and requires an exploit to be decent. Or Frank's Mixtape.
I'm sorry, but how does anybody find Legion OP? Even the devs specifically stated they made him for fun more than competency.
Most loopable killer in the game, cannot down people with his power unless you use Frank's Mix Tape (a purple add-on by the way, and still need to hit people 3 times with it), mending not being a healing action ruins any good perk builds you can make, the power doesn't recharge fast enough and doesn't last long enough, too slow to chase people without his power, do I need to go on? This killer is a joke, nobody's afraid of them. This killer is a literal door mat even for the worst of survivors. Even at what this killer is supposedly good at (injuring multiple people at once), it does nothing in the long run since good survivors always split up.
he's just so terrible it's unfathomable to me
But yeah Legion is a trash can of a killer and BHVR should be ashamed of making a useless killer.
The Devs are even QUOTED as saying they built Old Legion for Fun, not to be good. Which is like in "Kung Pow: Enter the fist" where they taught that one guy wrong as a joke.
Don't get me wrong, I loved the FEELING of Old Legion and I still enjoy New Legion. But Old Legion was still really bad. It just feels like it was "Glorious" cause we are stuck with this crippled version we have now. We need good buffs and tweaks. (Some would argue a full on rework. I'm not sure, though Mob Mentality is still REALLY cool in concept and i'd like to see something that used the LEGION part of it.... without any stupid locker stuff)
Devs, take your time and really plan out what you do with Legion. Just fixing add-ons isnt enough, but I don't want you to rush either. Look through all the thoughts here and other places, take input from Legion mains, and give us something both Fun and Good (because it can be both) that keeps the "Rush Down" or "Blitz" attack play style. I know you can do it. @Peanits @not_Queen
Post edited by UlvenDagoth on0 -
Here I am. Aside from my suggestions on how to buff Legion made in another topic, I have two objections about what’s written here.
Point 5: At base, being hit with Feral Frenzy causes mangled that persists until fully healed. Can't be stacked with other mangled status effects like sloppy butcher but works with coulraphobia and the like.
And the sentence:
“Survivor now remove the DW status effect by healing to full health, not by mending. DW lasts indefinitely.“
Both these points would be a huge buff to Self-care and we don’t want that. Mending should stay as a base action performed by all perkless survivors.
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Ohh interesting. Why would the first be a buff to self care, if it gives mangled?
That seconds one was to add balance to the secondary power he was suggesting.
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Not because it adds Mangled, but because in both those points you take away Mending and put Healing instead. How do a survivor heal himself? Self-Care. So giving a fast, easy to hit, avoiding loop killer a power that forces you to heal yourself, you are giving an enormous buff to SC.
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He wanted to avoid mending cause that's one reason Survivors seem to hate them. Did you read all of this idea?
If they are over there SCing then i'll be cool with them wasting time. Unless, and I admit it can happen, I am missing something.
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All of that would make SC mandatory against Legion and SC would be even more meta. Again, I don’t think we want that. Survivors seem to hate mending yeah but they hate everything. They don’t hate mending so much when it’s from BT.
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Well if you tell survivors it's meta now you will get laughed at. "SC in 2019?"
I don't know, but I do see where you are coming from. Would you like to give your own thoughts here about some number changes or buffs?
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I actually see SC a lot. Probably more than they like to admit lol.
BTW yes, as I already said on the other topic, Deep Wound should apply the Oblivious status effect and Mending should be considered a healing actions. I am convinced that these two changes alone would move Legion from “bottom” to “mid” tier.
I also think, like everyone else, that most of his addons are in need of a rework. I don’t have many ideas, but here we go.
- Some addons should enhance Legion’s movement speed while in Feral Frenzy in some way.
- Apply the Broken status effect on a time limit could stay, but should be easier to accomplish. Hitting twice the same survivor just to process Broken is pointless since he’s going to be injured and in front of you anyway.
- Those addons that improve the duration of FF should simply be buffed.
- Frank’s Mixtape should make Legion Undetected while in FF.
- I feel we could use a purple addon to see scratchmarks.
- We could also use a green which applies Exhaustion on DW.
Also I fully agree on having a shorter cooldown for FF and removing the M1 penalty.
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Not bad ideas! I don't think I have an exact "Add-on" post yet, but you got my approval on these!
Other than ONE thing. "Oblivious" would get rid of the TR... making moonwalking Legion a thing again. So would the Frank's Mix tape effect.
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You are so right I didn’t think about that. So, I’ll rephrase: the mending action should make the survivor oblivious, not the DW status.
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My intention was, from the start, to allow legion to sneak up on mending survivors, not to bring back the old Legion. So yeah Oblivious while mending works better and solves the issue.
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Got ya. I'll update it for ya! Is that base idea or for Frank's?
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No I suggested Frank’s for Undetected, not for Oblivious.
To recap:
The Mending action should be considered a healing action and should make the survivor Oblivious. This would allow Legion to stealth on mending survivors while he is NOT in FF.
Frank’s should make Legion Undetected during Feral Frenzy. This would allow Legion to not get juked out of his power while HE IS in FF.
Please note that the Frank’s change wouldn’t affect TR perks so much since he would be in FF anyway. No BT nerf here.
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Well "Undetected" means no TR as well. So FF, then FF backwards. You know someone will do it!.... that being said it would be much rarer... Might not even help too much. Huh, alright.
Though it does come back to my Idea of giving Legion no TR in FF. I had to mess with that ALOT to get it to work.
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No wait I don’t get what you mean by “FF backwards”
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Oh to keep them from being in a chase. Like Old Legion but only in FF. Honestly now that i've thought about it, who would Feral Frenzy backwards to do this?
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Who cares if Legion is making Old Legion WHILE in FF? He can’t down me.
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True enough I suppose. Just thinking of people yelling about running Mending timers down. Ya prolly right though. The more I thought about it the more it seemed like a waste of time for that Legion. Like camping is for all Killers! (other than MAYBE Bubba)
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You mean like, FF Legion following you without hitting you just to let the timer go down? Because in that case you would just mend and wait for legion to take the stun.
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IMO Legion needs a power that can down survivor and that can let you hit survivors more often
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Yeah that's what i thought of!
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HOw would you do it in a balanced way while making the KIller still good though? (And keeping the Rush down playstyle)
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so um, if my posting slows down i'm really sick at the moment. A few other issues too, but don't worry, I'll still be reviewing anything put here.
We are The Legion and we stick together. Have Fun in the Fog everyone.
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Legion Head canon:
Legion is the least ######### up looking characters, so the Entity didn't have to try hard to get them to work with it. Likely threatened to hurt the others to get them to cooperate. The nerfs are Legion 's lack of really trying cause they still are able to resent the Entity's control cause it didn't have to break them.
Sorry, this has been on my mind all day and I had to put it somewhere!
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That's my thinking too. Those not as messed up didn't need as much "convincing" to kill and torture for the entity.
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I do hope then that we can use these ideas to... .reinspire Legion to try to be the best again!
as long as they keep the playstyle we love.
Also, for head canon as well, I tend to go easier on people at Ormand, cause I feel Legion would be more... nostalgic there.
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Would Frank feel nostalgic?
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Honestly, I'm not sure what Frank feels. If he is straight up a sociopath, then it's doubtful, but it's hard to tell.
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Nice work its good
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Make sure you tell @TWiXT That too!
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I've been following this thread for a while, and I'm glad to see a big Legion thread has been created. Hopefully the devs pay these ideas a thought.
My ideas:
Frenzy: Increase vaulting speed back to original speed. Increase speed to 135% but lower length by 2 seconds. Reduce cooldown to 3 seconds. Every successful hit on a non-deep wounded survivors reduces cooldown by .5 seconds. Missed attacks reduce 50% of the meter. Landing a successful hit no longer reduces the power gauge. The power gauge now refills in 15 seconds instead of 20. Terror Radius is reduced to 24 meters during Frenzy. The red-outline on survivors marked by Killer Instinct will be displayed once again.
Deep Wounds: While inflicted, the survivor can not preform actions such as repairing, healing others, or breaking totems. Mending now has skill checks. Failing a Mending skill check will interrupt the action and reduce 30% of the meter, or down the survivor if there is less than 30% remaining. Deep Wounds Time reduced to 10 seconds. Feral Frenzy attacks reduce Deep Wounds by 2.5 seconds, however the meter cannot be reduced under 2.5 seconds this way. Deep Wounds reduces while mending, however, the survivor will not be downed if they are mending when the time reaches 0, but while be downed if they cancel mending. Mending time is also increased by 5 seconds.
I am more than willing to hear feedback or justify any changes people may have inquiries about. Have a good one.
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Honestly I rather like these changes. The mending ones for sure! I like that you get a reward of reducing your stun after FF if you hit people. It really makes it feel more rewarding. I think this would be a GOOD idea for smaller changes that would help Legion so it's going to the front page! Let me know if you edit it any!
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Keep the good ideas coming! I love seeing everyone so passionate about this like i am!
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In continuation to my previous post, I will also be listing off ways to changes Legion's addons. However do note that these addons are based of MY CHANGES. So an addon that might not make sense currently, WOULD make sense with my changes. Please give any feedback or questions as I will gladly answer them :D
Common Addons:
Smiley Face Pin: Gives Blindness for 120 seconds and is done on Intial FF hit.
Scratched Ruler: No change
Mischief List: Increases Duration by 1 second
Friendship Bracelet: Increase Killer Instinct by 4m, and increase FF movement speed by 3%
Uncommon Addons:
Never-Sleep Pills: Increase Killer Instinct by 8m, and Increase FF movement speed by 4%
Mural Sketch: Increase FF duration by 1.75 seconds
Julie's Mixtape: Increase vaulting speeds during FF by 10%
Etched Ruler: FF refills 4 seconds faster
Defaced Smiley Pin: Gives Mangled for 120 seconds and is done on intial FF hit
Rare Addons:
The Legion Pin: Gives Broken status effect for 120 seconds and is done on intial FF hit
Susie's Mixtape: Increases Killer Instinct by 16m and increases FF movement speed by 5%
Stolen Sketchbook: Increases FF Duration by 2.5 seconds
Nasty Blade: Considerably reduce Mending Skill Check Zones sizes, and increase failure penalty to 50% of Deep Wounds timer
Joey's Mixtape: Increases vaulting speed during FF by 20%
Very Rare Addons:
Stab Wounds Study: Hitting a Deep Wounded survivor with FF reduces the time to 2.5 seconds instantly
Frank's Mixtape: Pallets dropped on the Legion during FF are instantly broken. Stun time from FF and pallets dropped on the Legion during FF increased to 3.5 seconds
Filthy Blade: Tremendously reduce Mending Skill Check zones sizes, and failing a skill check will down the survivor regardless of how much is left on their timer
Cold Dirt: The cooldown time is reduced by .75 seconds instead of .5 seconds for the first 2 survivors inflicted with Deep Wounds
Ultra Rare Addons:
Iridescent Button: The terror radius and Killer Instinct cover the entire map, pallets vaulted are broken, and FF movement speed is increased by 10%. FF duration is reduced by 2 seconds
Fuming Mixtape: Windows vaulted during FF are blocked for its duration and 10 seconds after it. Scratch Mark's and blood are now visible, however Killer Instinct cannot be triggered. Hitting a survivor will injure them or down them if they are already injured. Missing an attack will end the power. Hitting a survivor will end the power. FF duration increased by 2 seconds, charge time is increased by 15 seconds.
Thanks for the read, and sorry for the mouthful X)
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Good ideas! You know what? I will put this on the top!
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I will say, I do miss swinging for fun during Feral Frenzy. That miss ending your power thing is so unfun and painful when Auto aim messes you up.
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Just like an invisible pallet drops on your head when you missed.
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Nope, it's worse and better than that. Worse cause it's longer, better cause you can still KINDA move and see.
Alot of Legion's run Enduring and bait people into dropping pallets on them cause the stun is shorter. That should say how bad that stun is when you miss or your power ends.
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I noticed one idea keep changing so I removed it till it's done being edited
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a sad list made by @NullSp3c Kinda sums up why i'm trying so hard to tell people that Legion needs ALOT of help
I've made a cool list about legion's power.
These are the downsides:
- Doesn't work to down survivors.
- To chase.
- To get information far away.
- Against spreaded survivors.
- Has a huge penalty.
- Is slow so some loops can be loopable when using feral frenzy.
- A stun takes you out.
- A missed hit takes you out.
- Hitting someone twice makes nothing and drops the power.
- Doesn't do anything against injured or exposed survivors.
- Doesn't help you patrol generators because you go further by just walking.
- Has a huge punishment in the end.
- You can't see blood pools.
- You can't see scratch marks.
- Makes your screen blurred so you easily miss a survivor when fatiguing.
- Partially deafens you.
- Has a 24 second cooldown.
- Your vision is turned down a little making it harder to see survivors.
- And there are white lines in the screen that partially limit your vision, to seem that you go fast (and in reality you are not going).
- Feels bad to use due to their uselessness and sluggishness.
- You won't use it in the end game because you can't down people, it will be just used in very specific situations.
- Isn't flexible, needs a full power bar to be activated.
- When you miss a hit you lose all the pressure that you had.
- Hitting someone while out of feral frenzy takes 50% of the bar.
- Killer instinct doesn't let you know the distance.
- No orange auras on killer instinct for no reason.
- Mending can be completely ignored by survivors.
- Mending is annoying to play against
These are the upsides:
- Hit multiple survivors when they are VERY close to each other and you don't miss or are stunned or hit someone twice.
- You see survivors that are around you.
- Make them mend so they waste15 seconds of their time.
- You can have a first hit, but it is not easy.
As you can see it is worth to use their power 100% *BEING VERY VERY SARCASTIC
But don't be afraid, you have 5% more movement speed now while walking normally, seems a good trade.
let's not forget, any 115% killer with 3 stacks of PWYF can go 5% faster than Legion in FF
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This post right here is the main reason I say Legion doesn't have a power. If the cons are more in number than the pros. Is it really a power or a handicap?
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And that is EXACTLY why we need to help Legion (and the lower tier Killers) to be good! Can you believe someone on here suggested nerfing all Killers to Legion Level? Holy crap I hope they were joking.
And yes, currently Legion's power is more of a handicap. That's why this thread is here to try to gather all of the good ideas for them into one place. NO KILLER should make you feel like that one guy in an anime, pulling off the weighted clothing and saying "I'm sorry Master, I must go all out this one time." when you pick someone else. I love Legion, I have a TON of fun as Legion... but they are in such a bad place atm.
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and now for an idea from @NuclearBurrito !
Though I would again like to point out that the legion fix specifically is solely geared towards fixing his balance issues and thus is not the best overall fix.
Now for the fix
These changes are all meant to go together:
- M1 attacks no longer drain Frenzy at all
- Killers can see the deep wounds bar draining
- Deep wounds prevents preforming channeled actions besides mending and unhooking
- Frenzy moves at 5.4 M/S
- Frenzy window vault speed is now 0.9 seconds and pallet vault speed is now 1.1 seconds.
- Fatigue time is reduced by 0.5 seconds per Survivor hit in a single Frenzy (without DW).
- Frenzy base fatigue time reduced to 3 seconds (thus the minimum fatigue is 1 second if you hit all 4)
- Frenzy cooldown is reduced to 15 seconds
M1 attack draining his power never made sense. Still doesn't
Killer seeing DW means Legion is now better at tracking and it punishes not mending.
Preventing channeled actions further punishes not mending.
Increase Frenzy speed and vault speed means he's more likely to get chain hits. DW still is extremely unlikely to down and such this isn't problematic.
Fatigue time being reduced by chain hits (default is still 4) means he has an actual method of downing Survivors. Hit them all and then M1 the last one with a very small to nonexistent fatigue for a relatively easy down.
Addon changes:
- Pins - The change about working on first hit happens
- Friendship bracelet/Never sleep pills/Susie's Mixtape - Increase terror radius during Feral Frenzy by 4/6/8 meters (gives them more perk synergy)
Franks Mixtape - Hitting a Survivor with Deep Wounds inflicts Oblivious for 15 seconds(After more thought we figured out this would end up bringing back the Exploit. Needs a change- Ulven)- Fuming Mixtape - Also increases Frenzy Duration by 3 seconds
- Julies Mixtape - Slightly increase Frenzy movement speed (+0.1 M/S)
- Joes Mixtape/Cold dirt - Considerably/Tremendously the time required to refill the power gauge
Pins are being changed anyways. No reason not to support this. (yes please. Put it on the first hit at least)
KI addons now synergise better with perks related to this stuff
Franks now causes DW to drain over time for a bit and gives it more utility, while also making sure it doesn't stack with itself due to the new Cold Dirt AND means it can effectively do more "damage" without being abusable (shortest time to down possible is 30 seconds which is longer than what you want)The fatigue addons needed to be change due to the new fatigue mechanic only working at specific values. Having addons effect them would make it much harder to balance, thus making them effect other things such as cooldowns and speed solves the issue.Post edited by UlvenDagoth on1 -
Just everyone posting ideas, I want to take a moment to thank ALL of you for the help in getting Legion some love and looked at.
Legion is a unique Killer and I really want to keep that Uniqueness. I love the playstyle of Legion and I know yall do too. Thank you so much for all of your ideas and keeping this place so civil and active. Maybe we can get the Lower Tier Killers out of there boring, easily looped state and put some tension back on the Survivors to think up new and unique plans to handle the Killers now. No more "Oh just loop them..." but instead "Oh it's THAT Killer! What did they do again? Okay, we need a plan!"
Doesn't that sound so much more fun? That uniqueness back into the Killers? Cause if all they need to do is loop, why even bother having this many Killers? We need to put the uniqueness back into the Killers and this thread is REALLY helping getting Legion there Uniqueness UPGRADED!!!
Thank you all so much and have Fun in the Fog!
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https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/76173/everyone-saying-legion-has-a-bad-power-is-wrong
This makes me sad, but it's not wrong. Legion needs ALOT of help. Thank yall for helping me try and get them that help. Just remember, we are trying to keep the SOUL of Legion the same. We want the rushdown, blitz style we have now, but better or with something to make it viable. NEVER CHANGE THE PLAY STYLE that Legion players love. It would tear me up inside that my favorite Killer was utterly changed in such a way.
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