LGBTQ survivor/killer when?

Yes and no. He's throwing in his two cents that, while perhaps offensive to someone in support of the LGBT issue at hand, isn't directly attacking it. The full context of his post isn't "LGBT representation has no place in this game", it's "in my history whenever someone asked for representation and the developers agreed, they wound up making the situation worse". It's not unreasonable to say that characters shouldn't have any sexual preferences given because then it's an even playing field anyway. Any character can be gay, straight, trans, whatever.

My point is that you took it as an attack and I don't think it was meant as one. He was making a point, that's all.

The term "identity politics" means to use what makes oneself unique - be it race, sexuality, whatever - to shame others into forced "tolerance". These things can happen organically, or they can happen because people demand them and call people who don't agree bigots. Or homophobes. Or cis, white, heterosexual men.

I've said about 30 times in this thread that I'm completely open to any character of any sexuality or ethnicity being in this game. I've also pointed out that what I disagree with is the aggressive insistence that if it doesn't happen, it's somehow a form of persecution. That, again, is playing identity politics.

I've also noticed that this is now the second time my own color, sexuality or personal philosophies have been insulted despite the fact that I've done no such thing to anyone else here for theirs. Some of you are a little too defensive about this.

That strikes me as confirmation bias. I doubt you were here monitoring the forums every day since the game's release, looking for people to be upset about heterosexual relationships.

And yes, if the roles were reversed, you'd see the exact same thing. If someone made a game that appeared to cater to LGBT fans and a group of straight people started complaining that their heterosexuality wasn't being fairly represented, that would also be playing identity politics. I have the feeling you would also be far less tolerant of their attitude as you expect others to be of yours.

It's honestly quite disappointing that we still don't have a playable queer character, especially since the RE chapter won't be changing that. Hopefully soon!

Aside from the person who briefly appeared and blatantly denied an interest in having LGBT people in the game, who else is calling for their exclusion? Who are the people that are persecuting you? Who here has said "No, I absolutely would quit playing this game if there were gay people in it"?

I had the highest post count at THQ. It didn't make me any more special than you are.

I don't need proof to offer a belief. I said that I believe you would be just as intolerant of straight people wanting their heterosexuality to have "equal representation" in a LGBT game as you claim others are being about your own desire for "inclusion" in this one. I stand by my belief. If I'm wrong, so be it. Like myself, you're nothing more than words, and that's what I have to go by.

I was shown the dev's comment on the matter, I don't recall them saying that they deliberately avoided LGBT sexuality specifically because they were uncomfortable with it or in any way found it negative or unpleasant. If I missed that part, you're free to show me. What I saw was "we wanted people to make up their own minds" which, I'm sorry, is not at all the same thing. You seem to have a habit of inferring attacks where there are none.

And yes, as long as someone takes a shaming or otherwise aggressive stance about something I may happen to otherwise agree with, there will always be a "but". I can agree with the end result of what you want without agreeing with the way that you're going about it.

As well it sounds like they should have been.

My point is, what does that have to do with anyone here? Am I being that #########? Am I saying that the LGBT community disgusts me and that I wouldn't play the game if it included such characters? Did the person who provided the example of a black person being stereotyped when he was included in the other game?

I'm going to be frank: You sound as if, clearly, you are part of the LGBT community (this may or may not be obvious but I don't want to speak in an authoritative way about people I don't know). If so, that's perfectly fine. It also sounds like you've dealt with people who have made such things, if they are true, very unpleasant for you. If so I'm legitimately sorry to hear that. I don't approve of such things, regardless of how my comments in this thread have apparently been misconstrued.

What I don't understand is, what has been said in this thread that makes you feel that you and / or your preferences, should they be what they seem, are under attack? From what I can tell the vast majority of this thread, including myself, AGREES with you, and the few people who have voiced any concern whatsoever have been met with what strikes me as a lot less tolerance than you want to be shown to yourself. Why?

I don't have the time or patience to catch up the two hundred or so posts that have happened since I first weighed in on this topic. I stated at the start that I prefer the sexual preferences of the various Killers and Survivors to be left blank so anyone and everyone can fill in the blanks as they see fit. It doesn't seem particularly relevant to the game or even the Lore for that matter. The entity doesn't care about sexual preference, nor do the Killers. If anything a pretty good number of both roles are asexual, i.e. their sexual identity is less important to them than what kind of coffee they drink. Consider Jake, a guy so anti-social he dropped off the map and went into the wild solo in the Lore. Clearly sexuality is not his top priority. Myers is a human body inhabited by pure evil that simply kills for its own unknowable reasons, and sexuality doesn't come into it. Over and over again in the Lore we see the subject skirted because most of these people are driven by other things near and dear to them. Do you see the point I'm making? I think this was a wise choice on the part of BEhavior originally, and I wish they had never veered at all because we wouldn't even be having this conversation otherwise. What is more, they barely veered at all.

I want to stress that I think bigots are the lowest form of human life. I think our individual value should be determined by fiat, ourselves alone. The demons of external validation are always a work, and we would all do better to immunize ourselves against them. It is because I think personal preferences are just that.... PERSONAL... that I prefer those fill in the blanks on our fictional people. I think it being fill in the blank illustrates better that things like ethnicity, sexual preference, religion, etc. are not an appropriate way to judge people. Left as blanks, it means they are taken out of the equation entirely and shown to be false measures. People are who they are and none of us should care nor be chiming in. Sadly, this has now become another issue and the blanks are going to get filled in. Many of you are too young to remember when the movie Basic Instinct was released. I am using it for my next example because it is about a Killer. It was a smart, edgy movie that illustrated that there are sociopaths out there. What was innovative for the film was that the Killer was not only a woman, she was also Bisexual (or a Lesbian). Her sexuality wasn't the cause of her dark behavior; it was the least important thing about her.... and yet....

There was a HUGE explosion of unhappy people who stated how offended they were that the Killer was Bisexual/Lesbian because it implied that all such people are deviant sociopaths. The movie didn't say this of course, but that was the rallying cry. Do you see where I'm going with this? So let's fast forward back to Dead by Daylight. If we are going to fill in the blanks now, and make sexual preferences a more important part of the Lore, how much representation will be required? I'm not asking that to be an ass; it is an important question. If they just throw in one Survivor and one Killer from under the LGBQT umbrella... won't that just be tokenism? Which types that fall under that umbrella will be represented? Or will we need a Killer and Survivor of each? We can't just have Killers of each because that would imply that everyone under the LGBQT umbrella is a murdering psycho. Do you see why I think this is one big can of worms. There is no win scenario here, only a furthering of our own group focus on something that is largely personal.

I want to comment on something personal now, which I don't generally do. I am a strong believer that personal preferences are... well... PERSONAL. I don't think any of you really care what I desire, believe, or want out of life. You have enough to do with your own goals and ambitions. Even so, I'm going to make this one time exception to talk about something personal because I think it pertains to this issue. I am not a Christian; I am a Pagan. You wouldn't know it by looking at me. Nothing about how I act or dress would imply it. I'm just your average, everyday person going about his business in the world. To know that my religious beliefs are part of a minority, you would have to ask. But here is the rub, I'm not hiding in the so-called "broom closet" or any such nonsense. I just don't feel the need to put my personal beliefs on display. I don't begrudge others their desire to be louder, but I personally just don't see the point. I'm not asking for representation among the Survivors, the Killers, or demanding the entity be defined in some sort of religious context that validates my own cosmology. Do you see where I'm going with this? If I want (and choose) I can easily apply my beliefs to the blanks that the various fictional characters provide. Because these things are not addressed, I can assume whatever I want. Ironically enough, I assume most people who know me in real life apply such assumptions to me and it is no skin off my nose.

A lot of people have chimed in on this subject, and it quickly became heated. That is unfortunate. While I understand that a lot of people don't feel represented, I have to ask how it can be done that you won't feel it is just a token? How much will be enough? Will we all agree when we can't agree on anything. Will the time and labor it takes to fill in the blanks here be well spent when it will be contending with the time and labor the DEV could be spending on addressing all those annoying bugs, exploits, optimization, balance, and so on that we constantly scream about? I'm asking these questions because they need to be asked. What will we be gaining (if anything) and what will we be giving up to gain it? I want to end on a less serious note, what does Nea secretly being the Entity say about this whole debate?

No that's fine, trust me, I completely believe both of you. All I need to do is turn on the television or walk outside my house to believe that this is true.

While it's far less than it was when I was young (I wager there's a good chance that I was around a little while before a lot of others here were), there is undoubtedly still hatred, bigotry and persecution of gay and trans (etc.) people all over the world. I don't like it, I've done my part to change it, and I rejoiced when my country finally caught up to the rest of the world in agreeing that there is (in my opinion) nothing wrong with people of the same gender having romantic, fulfilling partnerships.

That said, I just don't know how or why this thread became so defensive, so fast. I don't know why the default attitude seems to be "tolerate us or you're an intolerant #########". I guess I just don't understand the aggression.

You're conflating.

Well then we're all guilty of the same thing, which is being human. We're all shaped by our past experiences, we all bring a little of what we've learned and dealt with to the table.

Maybe Orion is just sensitive to the issue because he or she (apologies, I don't know) has dealt with a lot of such people and it really hurt, as I imagine it would, so the natural inclination is to assume that anyone who doesn't quite seem on board may be another such person. All I can do is keep saying I'm not, but I don't think most people here have listened. The post I just made about saying that discrimination is bad but so is judging other people solely on their worst acts was basically ignored to isolate one comment, take it out of context, change the words and make me look like an #########. All I can do at this point is shrug my shoulders and say "I feel I've been clear enough, if what I've said is still being interpreted as offensive that's no longer my responsibility to change".

You guys (and gals) have dealt with your share of toxic people who have bashed or otherwise made you feel like lesser people because of your sexuality. That's a shame. It shouldn't happen. I can try to understand it as much as I can but yes, as a straight white male, I haven't had the same struggles. I haven't been in the same position. But, as is only fair, some people like myself also ask for some understanding when they try to explain that the shoe has been on the other foot. There are people who have expressed a militant intolerance of intolerance. People who have, in fact, leveraged their ethnicity or religion or sexuality or gender or any other number of things to force their will upon those who may not have the same opinion, or at least not appreciate it being pushed upon them. Just as actual homophobes display rampant intolerance, so do those who have no patience for people who feel differently about things than themselves. I don't want to have someone call me a bigot for not wanting exclusively gay bathrooms any more than I want someone to call me a race-trader for saying that Denzel Washington is a good actor. I want to live my life and treat people the way I myself want to be treated, and I don't like anyone trying to aggressively push their will or attempt to shame me into accepting something without reasonable discussion. That's all, really.

At the end of the day we ARE arguing for the same side: I'm fine with LGBT characters being in the game. But I also understand and can appreciate the side that says "it's best to leave the whole hornet's nest alone and allow people to come up with their own stories". Neither of these viewpoints are inherently right or wrong, they're merely personal viewpoints. I don't understand why someone should be insulted or seen as some kind of enemy for appreciating the logic of both sides of the argument.

Or, better yet, who cares?

It's not a game about sex. It's a game about murder. Keep it about murder.

Shit like this is why the devs aren't focusing enough on game balance.

That's not true?

This game is about sex now??

They actually listened on Twitter and added sex to DBD?

I don't know, I can't answer that because I'm not one of them. :)