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What *Exactly* Makes NOED Unfair?
Comments
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If haunted grounds is good with a 60 seconds timer, 90s/120s noed would be crazy good.
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Survivors still cry over noed while they gen rush dont cleanse totems tbag clicky clicky troll killers and complain just git gud and stop being babies.
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I never denied that you can’t cleanse it afterwards - I even acknowledged that point by saying that killers can specifically hook survivors by the totem to prevent that strategy - maybe in a different post, but I know that I’ve acknowledged that factor somewhere.
I’ve never heard of waiting until activation to be a good thing, it is an option but it certainly isn’t the best of the options that you have, because you are allowing the killer to have value. Not to mention that you are now having to scout for the lit totem, versus trying to scout for totems prior to activation.
As for the first bit, ehh no. A killer that uses NOED, uses it with intention. A killer that is aware their weakness is chase, will not feel phased by the completion of generators because most times, that’s what they’re anticipating.
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Yes. If the team is good.
We can't balance around bad players, then it becomes a mess. It's not a lack of communication, it's a lack of ability and/or game knowledge, which can be corrected with practice, but isn't helped by dumbing down the game for them.
If the killer "let" the game go to 5 completed gens with less than 2 hooks, then why exactly were the survivors unable to do the one thing that you can do with NOED, that you can't with any other perk, and stop it from activating? Especially given the boon meta, where you can see a booned totem across the map, through walls and floors, so you don't need anyone to tell you it was blessed.
In the last 20 matches I've played as solo survivor, I've yet to see less than 2 people running boon perks (usually it's 3). That by itself drops the amount of totems you need to remove to prevent noed, and gives you far better odds of finding the lit one if you don't choose to prevent it. As far as "well the other survivors get mad if I break the totems" argument I've seen lately, I have to say, at that point they're literally asking for NOED to activate.
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Same goes for noed. All killers start off being faster than survivors, the speed boost is good, but doesn't make the chase impossible to lose. Noed doesn't make the killer immune to blinds and pallets, and doesn't give them the ability to walk through walls and windows like they aren't there. It's harder to loop a speed boosted killer, but certainly can be done and even my terrible at chases ass has done it successfully multiple times.
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I’ll respond to u later, if I remember to.
im going to sleep rn, in the meantime, have a good day
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You too. I gotta fly out for work today, so I may not be on later, but it's been a good discussion. Nice to disagree with someone without being called names for it
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No, i'd take a bamboozle (bubba/ billy) chase over an infinite exposed chase (noed/ devour) any day. Anyway... this kind of thread won't settle until devs actually say anything. So... did they actually say that they won't touch NOED ever? Cause i don't know. Didn't hear about a NOED change either. But at least if they take position we could move on.
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ok we get rid of noed by we also get rid of BT DS UB and DH see all that turns out.
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Well yeah, that's why noed is conditional (only active at end of match) and a hex (traditionally where all the strongest perks should be). It's powerful, but not impossible, and very easy to remove from the match.
As far as I know, the last word from the devs on the perk was shortly after it was changed to a hex perk, which was that they thought it was in a good place, but would of course keep an eye on the numbers. That would lead me to believe that they're seeing the same kind of data that my own matches as survivor have lead me to, which is that noed just doesn't secure that many kills on average.
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I never tried to say to get rid of DS/ BT or NOED. I want NOED to be changed not deleted. DS is balanced, BT might be a bit long... UB could use a nerf etc. And they said that they'll nerf DH apparently. Happy?
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Or your teammates can just leave you on hook a soon as you go down to noed. That’s solo que. Not even gonna attempt for a rescue or find the totem, just leave me on the hook. It’s what happened to me yesterday and I was really pissed at my team for that.
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Sure, but they'll do that anyway. I got hooked the other day right as the gates were being opened without noed. The killer didn't even stick around, and via kindred I got to see all 3 of my teammates crouch in the doorway waiting for him to come give them a smack. Against ghostface no less, who has almost no hook defense to speak of. Sucked for me, but what can we expect when even the tutorial says that being selfish is a valid move for survivor, lol.
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it is not really a good perk nor meta, it is just unfun and boring.
It requires no effort or brain to use it, its just a second chance that kinda undoes your mistake just like dead hard.
Thats why I dont use it, I dont need a crutch, perks like Pop, Pain resonance, No way out, Ruin etc are much more fun and healthier perks, they all require you to do something to get value out of it and the reward feeling of it is just amazing. However you dont have such reward feeling on noed, its just for salty baby killers that try desperately to get kills which is just sad, a perk like that shouldnt exist.
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After that game I got invited by some friends who were on pc. I’m on console. So no communication but I get actual good teammates that help out. That’s all I want, good teammates. I don’t get that in solo. Idk if you saw my video on how 3 of my teammates went down to a basement bubba. Like come on. But back to noed the problem with the perk is that no one in solo que helps me out. Against a pyramid head yesterday, I cleansed 3 totems and blessed one while doing good in chase in Ormand. But boom noed activates. No one on my team helped me out. I did survive tho so at least that’s good
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Well, they did nerf object of obsession annoying aspect while the data stated that its users died more on average. Hope they'll do the same with NOED at some point.
Really need more of these.
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Damn, you've got some terrible luck.
I did see that video, it was bad. What region are you in? I play solo on the NA servers, and find right around dinnertime on weekdays I generally get rather good teams.
I definitely get that frustration. I guess my worry is that if we start balancing around the assumption that your teammates will suck, it just gives them more of an incentive to suck
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Genuine question: What is the mistake that gets undone by NOED?
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So even if the data shows that it's doing nothing, you want it nerfed? That makes no sense at all to me. I mean, if the data showed that it was a 4k every time, I'd certainly change my stance.
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Because I think the problems with NOED are 2 fold: consistency (in terms of use and counterplay) and the context it's inserted (for SBMM and the current boon meta).
On the latter, the optimal way is to NOT cleanse dull totems at all as they can be blessed by teammates. Furthermore, they become known spawn points for NOED, so that you can ignore them for the whole match and if the perk activates you can just go check them. Cleansing the totems means you need to blindly search for NOED which is much more time-consuming.
Adding more totems brings decisions before NOED's activation (Do I keep the totem dull for a boon while risking it's going to be used by the killer's NOED instead?), provides incremental value for each totem cleansed/blessed, makes survivors actions feel more meaningful, and dull totems a more valid secondary objective.
The upside of that design for killers is that teams that consistently ignored totems (and gen rushed) are more prone to the scenario where NOED activates with multiple instances being as you said stronger. On the other side, teams that partly cleansed dull totems will be hit with 1 or 2 instances of the Exposed Status Effect before NOED completely deactivates.
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Do you know why they changed old object? Not because of data, but because of feedback. And no one ever said that it was a bad change; on the contrary.
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Did you know that object is a completely different perk that did a completely different function within the game? Have you heard the term "whataboutism"?
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I’m In the southeast region in the United States. Doesn’t matter what time of the day it is most of the time I get garbage teammates. I had a game vs a hag and this team made like the mossy uncoordinated last second rescued I have seen. A Kate was downed by the hook while Yun Jin and nea left. I stayed behind to try to help the Kate but I wa forced to go down because I had a plan. The Kate was trying to kill herself but I had deliverance and the killer down me immediately. But I had ds and bt so I go the Kate out. Can not leave them behind lmao. I died and hot hit in the hook but it was worth it. Me and my teammates are complete opposites.
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It's definitely interesting. Could make it a more effective perk overall.
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For the love of god follow a bit. You said "why should they change a perk if data doesn't back it up?". Data didn't back up a change for old object, but player experience and feedback did. They changed the perk, and no one complains about it anymore. It was a good change. NOED needs a change even if data do not back it up... like old object needed one.
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Yep, even if NOED doesn't activate it brings value by meaning the survivors spent time to cleanse and bless all totems.
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They changed ooo because it was completely broken in swf and open to abuse. That's not really the same thing as "people don't like dying after the gens are powered" especially if the data shows they there isn't a large amount of people dying to noed, meaning that unlike object, the effect of it on the game is actually minimal. Saying "they changed it because people didn't like it" ignores a ton of context. Open to abuse isn't the same thing as overpowered. Even your initial claim was
"I've seen countless games where the killer barely hooked anyone during the trial, and then demolished my team just because of that one perk."
If that was truly happening on a large enough scale to adjust the perk, the data would back it up. It would literally show in the kill rates. Unlike say, a perk that's being used to harass and unnecessary draw out matches, which would not reflect in the kill rate, but would show in the satisfaction rating per match.
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My feeling is noed has the same feel as DH.
Let me elaborate, I think the devs should try choosing which effect they want it to have and then rework the perk accordingly. Either remove the speed increase and leave the exposed but maybe change it to a timer instead of hex bound. Change it to just a speed increase and play around with the numbers, or have it reworked to change how bloodlust works.
My personal thought on noed is that it doesn't take much skill to get any use out of it in most situations except for a very well coordinated team. The killer can be playing very poorly but just brute force a chase with the speed boost and building bloodlust. The killer will eventually get the survivor unless there is a big misplay.
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Problems are different but exist in both instances. But i guess until they openly take a position about NOED we're stuck.
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They have, you just don't want to accept their position.
"NOED doesn't reward Killers for playing bad, it rewards Killers for Survivors playing bad." - Almo.
https://m.twitch.tv/clip/NurturingPhilanthropicCroquetteTBCheesePull?tt_medium=mobile_web_share&tt_content=clips_viewing
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Then their position on the matter is wrong. Like they used to on many other things. Anyway, i'm tired of being on the forum instead of playing the thing.
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As I predicted. So the actual data on kill rates wouldn't sway you. The words of the developers on their own game won't sway you. Remind me again, what makes your position a logical one? This is starting to remind me of when Bill Nye debated that creationist.
"What would change your mind?"
Bill - "Evidence!"
Creationist - "Nothing!"
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I'm using my experience from the game on both sides to build my opinions. 3,4k hours on both sides. NOED is not even that good for killers and goddamn annoying in solo q. But yeah, let that dumbass perk that way. Everyone will be happy. So many threads about how balanced and fun this perk is, since... ever.
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I get it. Your feelings trump any data or evidence, got it loud and clear.
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I played a match as Wraith a while back (against a streamer of all people) I stayed invisible for the entire match... and They were wondering if NOED was going to be used
My Build for that Wraith game was: Fire Up, Discordance, TOTH, Whispers
They only cleansed one Totem (which was TOTH)... So the thought of me using NOED did cross their minds but they didn't show much
Yea there are perks designed around Survivors finding and cleansing Totems faster but those perks aren't "meta" right now
Just like NOED isn't "meta" right now
People have shared their views on NOED... and some changes... to which I say there are many different ways to play this game So find one (or two) that work for you
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The mistake to not building or keep enough pressure or even get kills. You can also phrase it different and say more like noed gives you some free downs depending on the situation ofc, it doesnt happen always obviously but it does happen often enough otherwise there wouldnt be that much complaints about it.
Keep in mind that I am a killer main and even I am getting annoyed of this perk and I just play survivors like once a week.
However I like the idea of the perk itsself, just give it a requirement to get the effect like you have to hook to gain tokens and then you have that much insta downs as that many tokens or something.
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I was unaware I'm a hypocrite for disagreeing with you. Clearly you know what that word means. 😂
Your objective is stopping survivors. If they finish generators, this mean they are close to escape. But you can still stop them, game is not over on this point.
Correct.
BUT! Noed should not give you kills here.
Why? Because Survivors said so? Why should it not give kills after the 5th gen pops, other than 'Entitled babies say so'? There's literally been 0 valid arguments. Just 'Because Survivors say so' and 'Survivors invented a bullshit win-state called "5 generators popped".'
No one has ever come up with a valid reason why NoED is bad, or OP, or 'unhealthy 🤪'. Just 'Because Survivors have 'basically won' at 5 gens', which is bullshit. And 'The Killer has lost at 5 gens' which is, again; bullshit. And 'The Killer has basically lost' and can you guess what that is? That's right! Bullshit!
NoED is fine. The only 'flaws' are garbage baby, whiny Survivors invented, like false win/lose states to claim 'It rewards failure' or 'Survivors won at 5 gens'. But I've never seen the game end when the 5th gen pops. Weird, huh?
It's almost like Survivors ONLY WIN when they LEAVE THE MAP and no earlier. Imagine that. 🤔
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Tbh most of it is because "it rewards bad plays" so here I have my points
You can remove noed before it ever comes into play and now you have CoH to strengthen that by leaving the last gen to be complete to look for totems
It's technically a thought ahead play by intentionally running the trail 3 perked instead of something like, dms, pain resonance, bbq, and corrupt
it's "un-earned" which is rich coming from 90% of people who complain about it
Survivors have the tools to combat it but most of them say "well solo q" well yeah thats the point of playing with randoms. tbh ive had games where the killer had noed and it didnt even come into play from either how bad my teammates were dying at 3 gens left or the killer was actually good in chase
Also if the killer really played bad wouldn't that mean you would have enough time to find 5 totems? Their argument kinda contradicts themselves.
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I never saw anything wrong with NOED. I was just in a game (as a survivor) not too long ago and NOED popped up after the final gen. Know what I did? I ran around looking for the hex totem before opening up the gate. One of my teammates found it and cleansed it. We all escaped.
People just get salty over the fact that they lost. It's not the killer's fault that survivors can't find the totem.
I laugh every time I get rage messages sent to me when I play as killer. They expect you not to use it while they can use Dead Hard and DS which basically give them second chances and delay hook sacrifices, lmao.
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Honestly nothing about it is really unfair, in fact I’d go as far to say it’s pretty mediocre outside of gimmicky Blood Warden builds. Personally I don’t think any late game killer perks are worth the perk slot aside from maybe No Way Out. Simply because of how situational they are. At that point in the game if you haven’t killed anyone yet you’ve pretty much already lost unless the survivors get too cocky and get super altruistic at the end.
You’re better off running a Early Game slow down perk or a tracking perk in higher levels of play. As that’s were all the coordinated SWFs are that don’t have a problem taking out NOED and saving their teammates being camped.
So no, noed is by no means unfair or OP. I wouldn’t even recommend using it.
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Because it's RNG, very powerful, hard to deal with as solo survivors and once activated it can 100% secure a kill. AKA when the killer hooks a survivor at the NOED totem, there's nothing you can do. Then there's the fact that NOED could be well hidden and even if it's found, survivors then have to find each other, then heal, open the gate AND get the unhook before they die... which isn't realistic really in solo queue.
Also the fact that some killers e.g., Nurse excel with NOED and add Infectious Fright to the mix and there's a big chance of a 4k even if she did poorly the entire match.
Also cleansing all totems before end game as solo against a good killer isn't really viable (it's a very poor tactic for multiple reasons as explained by Pulsar).
That's why it's seen as "unfair".
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this
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Nothing.
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How dare killers have a second chance perk to get a kill after the gens are done. Only survivors are allowed to have 1,000,000 second chances!!
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Little history of NOED before I start.
AT RELEASE - It worked indefinitely once gates were powered.
FIRST REWORK - It was given a 2 minute timer - certain elements still complained about it (so the timer suggest made somewhere above me was already done)
SECOND REWORK - it was made a Hex totem, and it's where we at today.
My view is simple - Killer is up against 4 people who can stack second-chance perks which gives him the potential to be stymied by these perks several times during the course of the game. Additionally, using NOED is giving up a perk slot for POTENTIAL end game power and it's tied to a totem. To me it seems like a fair trade. I'm no stranger to seeing people in a game play good all game only to not be able to carry it to the end because they overlooked something. In this case, the survivors overlooked the potential for NOED to fire.
I don't want NOED to go away as the concept of giving up power for stronger power later is a good concept and it seems unfair to me for the killer to give up such a cool ability when they are faced with so many second-chance perks that allow survivors to cover their own mistakes. (if you don't think Dead Hard and other second chance perks are for covering up mistakes, you're deluding yourself)
However, I'm not opposed to one more change to NOED - Anytime a killer gets a down using NOED, self-destruct the Totem it's at and migrate it to another dull totem. If there are no dull totems available, NOED is out of play for the rest of the game. This rewards survivors who cleanse dull totems while still retaining the edge NOED should have.
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It CAN'T secure a kill, because any survivors can run around and cleanse the totem if killer camp one, and there is 120(!) seconds to do so.
And if killer is good, they deserve a kill anyway.
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Kinda nuts people are still complaining about NOED when Rancor exists. Rancor might need extra supporting perks to be consistent but it's just straight up deleting people at the endgame instead of hooking them.
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Rancor itself is decent information perk because it shows the location of survivors every gens, I don't think it needs anything to kill someone consistently, well at least for securing a kill.
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It got the biggest buff ever in the form of No Way Out + Nemesis. The basic strategy is to just be standing over the obsession as the last gen gets done, then NWO holds the doors long enough for you to find the next person to Rancor. The more hooks you got, the more powerful Rancor becomes. It's especially brutal if someone was already dead by the endgame.
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What is this? Politics? You really want us to think? This is a dbd forum, lol
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