If you regularly lose to camping killers, you are bad at the game.

You can still get matched up with bad players and bad players can throw the game for you since it's a team game. Matchmaking isn't perfect.

To say that people only lose to camping because they are bad is ignoring that sometimes you just get bad teammates. I've had games where my teammates understand how to play against a facecamping leatherface and we get a 3 man escape. I've also had games where people instantly give up, because the killer is still around the hook. You just learn to know when to cut your losses as solo survivor.

At least in this case it's because the killer is making the decision. And in general, this is what it boils down to; decisions that only the killer can make can vastly change how much fun everyone is having, and if the killer makes the choice to make the match miserable, why does their fun matter?

To be perfectly clear, I'm not saying to never take the killer's fun into consideration, just that their fun matters less in the cases when they are explicitly choosing to make it less fun for everyone, and are (often) the only one that gets to decide that.

Mostly covering what others have said already

1: Even if the survivors wins, person on the hook just has to sit there

2: Frequently the camped person just suicides which gives the killer a win (basically by annoying a player out of the game)

3: You can say SWF/soloQ isn't an excuse, but SWFs have a much easier time not just with staying on gens, but timing the positioning to get the person off the hook

4: Even for the other survivors its a boring game, just sit on gens for a couple minutes, leave

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One other argument though is that it plays on, and encourages, a bad moral message/unsatisfying game. See that person over there? Leave them. As a survivor I want to play for the team, and really admire in soloQ how many other survivors do the same. I understand the nature of the game is for the killer to take advantage of that, and in EGC it is sometimes the killer's only option, but it shouldn't be to such an extend that the killer can easily and totally shut it down.

Listen to what you've just said and re-read it if you need to. I do not think you understand what you're trying to say so let me give you a thought process.

Survivor loads into a match with the thought they'll get to enjoy the match win or lose

Camping killer going into a match with the intention of losing and doesn't care that he is going to lose. He intentionally throws the match for everyone and ruins it cause he can. Nobody gains anything and wasted 30min trying to play.

Not everyone have time to play and it is limited to a few matches and if those matches are all tunneling campers it makes it easy to not wabt to play at all

Ah. I was wondering how you define "bad". Let me give you a different pov: The person on hook is making a rather utilitarian decision; they don't get bp either way and they depip either way. Might as well move on to the next match. Wouldn't call that bad. The people who were to hammer gens and get no bp either way and depip either way also have already nothing to gain regardless of the the match outcome. Might as well go next quicker.

Plus, as others have pointed out, camping isn't "OP" because it's strong but because it is so boring people rather take the L and move on.

On a slightly different note: if you manage to consistently solo unhook (/trade) against a camping killer then that is because they are impatient and/or don't know the grab timing. (Duo unhooks are a different Story - but also depend on the killer)

Of all the ways you could unnecessarily transform this into yet another annoying us-vs-them post this is among the most ridiculous; there's a whole buffet of reasons why this is a terrible comparison and just a terrible post to make.

First of all, "gen rushing" is so subjective compared to camping. How do you tell if someone's camping? the killer is hanging out near the hook blocking any potential unhooks. I defy you to come up with a definition for "gen rushing" that everyone will immediately and intuitively know, that can be used to classify every single instance of gameplay fairly and accurately.

Second, "camping" is neither necessary, nor conducive to advancing the killer's win condition (unless the survivors are bad or it's endgame and the killer has nothing else they can do). any reasonable definition of gen rushing requires survivors to do their one objective, the one and only thing that can give them more than a 1 out; work on gens.

Third, the idea that killer complaints are fewer or under-noticed or whatever is so wrong. Looking at the top page of general discussions, we have a bunch of threads that you could potentially interpret as being complaints. I'll give a rundown of the ones I saw when I loaded up the frontpage along with my summary of the complaint. i've been fairly judicious in defining what a complaint is, and classified this one as complaining even though it's more of an explanation. also, there's no value judgement on any of these complaints, many are quite valid.

5 threads complaining from survivor perspective only:

[this thread], "some killer players seem to want to torture others", "my teammates are idiots who don't understand their perks sometimes", "dead hard isn't that bad", "so there's this bug"

4 complaints from both roles:

"overall state of the game is miserable for both sides", "recent killer designs have been uninteresting", "more BP codes please", "bloodwebs still too slow"

12 complaints from killer perspective only:

"blight and nurse are the only viable killers", "why have only survivors gotten QoL updates", "i hate indoor maps as killer", "list of desired changes to make killers stronger", "i have no reason not to tunnel", "there are infinite looping spots in some maps", "quit hiding your prestige 100 survivor", "no longer enjoy the game, quitting", "so there's this bug", "starstruck should be base kit", "spine chill is overpowered", "dying light is too weak"

as you can see, there are more than twice as many killer-exclusive complaints as survivor-exclusive ones, and judging by the comments they're largely getting the same amount of attention. the idea that you don't hear killer complaints is silly.

I realize you're probably one of those people that think a player that face camps is bad at the game. Well sometimes facecamping a player to stage II means you already have won.

Let's take a look at how that happens. Say I chase someone and down them in the middle of the strongest 3 gen on the map. And I put them in basement. Ok I just walk 5-6 steps in any direction and prevent you from making an unhook without trading.

Let's also imagine that one of the generators is sitting on 80% completion and I have kick perks. So I stand closer to that gen so it keeps going back to 0% progress.

If I get your friend to stage II then I will tunnel them off the hook. And then I will do this all over again with only 3 people alive. If you could not save them with 3 people how are you going to do it with 2 people?

So you thought you ate with that huh? Let me go ahead and shut this one down.

did you even read the links you sent. Well maybe you didn’t but I did. Let’s go read the survivor perspective complains such as “dead hard isn’t that bad”. If you ACTUALLY read it, people agree with OP, there are more people that agree with him and therefore justifies survivors.

let’s go to killer perspective. “Blight and nurse are the only viable killers” and what do you see? The next comment with more likes that disagrees. Do you not get it? We tend to agree with survivors more than killers. I keep going through the survivor perspective and killer perspective and see the same thing over and over.

and let’s not put words in my mouth. I never once made the “us vs them” argument. All I said was that why don’t people ever care about the killers fun. Yet you found a way to twist my words and make it sound like I said “only the killers fun should matter” plus I even agreed that camping and tunneling are boring to survivors. Read the reply again and it’s the FIRST thing.and I never said that killer complaints are fewer than survivors. I said people don’t care about the killers fun.

30 minute games are not fun with SM. But 2 minute games of gen rush aren’t fun either. Don’t try to sit here and justify that gen rushing is fun for killers because you have yet to say anything about how killers feel, yet I talked about how survivors find tunneling and camping boring. So you sound like a one trick pony. NEXT

This post feels like you trying to justify why you're a face camper, and you want people to tell you that you're good, and survivors that dies when you face camp are bad. It's just not that simple.

First of all, I would argue that a SWF where all 4 maybe average say 1000 MMR, has a much higher chance of having 3 or 4 people escaping vs a face camping killer, than a full group of Solo Q players with an average of say 1500 MMR does.

If the Solo Q group has higher MMR, they should be better players on average. However, no one can deny that a SWF being able to communicate can MUCH more easily disarm a face camping situation, as they can co-ordinate distracting the killer and unhooking the person being face camped. The fact that they can communicate is a huge boost. I suspect that you're either just ignoring this fact completely, or you've never really played in a decent SWF before and so you have no reference point to compare to. Solo Q is by far the weakest group of players in this game. The list goes SWF along with Nurse and Blight is the strongest, then comes the rest of the killers, and then quite a bit below that comes Solo Q. No one would really argue against that being true. Solo Q is at a huge disadvantage compared to a SWF, and therefore something like a camping situation is far less likely to end well for Solo Q compared to a SWF, unless everyone in the Solo Q is very high MMR themselves, with thousands of hours in the game, then they are all knowledgeable enough that they know how to co-ordinate unhooking vs a camping killer even without communications. There's very few who sticks around the game long enough to get to that point however.

A second huge glaring issue with your argument, is that no one that's played this game more than like 10h just wants to do gens and then escape, hundreds or thousands of games in a row. Pretty quickly, the fun part on either side is chasing someone, or being chased. Is doing gens fun? No. Is healing fun? No. Is unhooking fun? No. It's fun to be chased, to get better at looping the killer, to get stuns and blinds etc. On the killer side, it's fun to outsmart the survivors, to win mindgames, it's fun when you learn to keep a fairly accurate image in your head of a map and where all survivors are at all times, even without having to use aura-perks etc.

Standing still at a hook, isn't fun, for anyone. Doing gens and escaping with zero interactions with the killer isn't fun for anyone. If I just wanted to gens and escape, I could just play the tutorial games all day long instead with 0 risk of being face camped.

I, and pretty much everyone else, play for the chases. That's the fun part. The interaction between survivor and killer.

If you face camp, I will be bored. If I'm the person on the hook, that's x amount of minutes of my life just wasted where I could've played a fun game instead. If some random person is on the hook, I'm bored too. If I just wanted to do gens and escape, I might as well play with bots. I will run to you, try to get your attention, try to get you to chase me instead, because that's why I play the game. I want that interaction.

You call me a bad player for doing that. You're saying that you're bad if you're not okay with just being bored for a few minutes and then escape with no interaction with the killer. You're bad if you want interaction with the killer. What are you smoking?

No, you're bad for face camping. You should be the one playing vs bots. It'll be as stimulating for you either way. Or you know, just stare into a blank wall all day. That's about as interactive as your game-play style is.

What's the fun in it for you? What enjoyment do you get from it, that you can't get from playing vs bots just as well? You're clearing not interested in interaction with other players. Please, tell me how staring into a blank wall 16h a day wouldn't be as rewarding or exciting as it is for you to just stand still in a video game for 5 minutes and then repeat that experience again and again and again?

People are playing the game to have fun. The fun part in this game is chases, on both sides. You're just wasting peoples time. You say yourself that camping is boring. So why bother? Why not just play some other game? Or watch Netflix/YouTube/Twitch/Whatever? What part of you is getting enjoyment from ensuring that others can't have fun?

edit

in regards to the killer's fun

the concept of "it's not about the match length" is erroneous.

match length is just as important to the fun equation as it is for survivors.

match length, difficulty, atmosphere, progression, and engagement are all important factors.

I appreciate the response, venting out on a post is something many have done including myself so no worries there. I'll also apologize since I feel like I came off as a tad bit aggressive as well.

As for the actual subject, there's not much I can say now that others haven't already covered in this post. Camping is situational and shouldn't be used as a strategy. Killers going in and immediately sticking near the hook on their first down at 3 or more gens are basically throwing the game there's no doubt about that. Unless the Survivors decide to go for the save, in which case they're throwing the game as there is quite literally nothing stopping them from doing gens. So from a balance standpoint, its fine

The problem now, is that the Survivor who is getting camped is just having their time wasted with basically no options other than to hang around. There's nothing fun about sitting on a hook for 2 minutes while a killer is just staring at you. Being that Survivor you do feel as if you're in an unwinnable situation and it just doesn't feel good whatsoever. Survivors aren't just 1 mass, they're 4 individuals attempting to work together to achieve their goal. As a killer its easy to forget that.

Now that's not to say this is the only scenario where some one can feel that way. Things such as a Survivors bringing Boil Over on a favorable map where they can wiggle 100% of the time and just don't budge isn't necessarily oppressive, but it sure feels like it since as a killer your options are very limited. In my opinion the devs should try to minimize if not remove all these situations al together. This would require a heavy overhaul to the games mechanics but it would definitely be in everyone's best interests. Ridding the game of all of these would just make the game just more enjoyable and possibly even reduce toxicity which is always a plus.

It was funny the first 10 million times. Now its just boring, mundane and an incredible waste of time.