Player Entitlement in this community is Unbelievable
Shortly after loading into Haddonfield, (one of the many maps that doesn't favour Knight without Call to Arms), I am greeted with the Ada in the middle of the street. She gives up the moment she sees me and doesn't move the whole match. I want to finish the game ASAP so I can verse a team of survivors that actually want to play the game. So I down her and go after the other survivors. The Mikaela gives up as well shortly afterwards. Once everyone is dead I go to the end-game chat to ask why someone would give up at the drop of a hat. This was the brief conversation we had:
I want to preface the argument I'm about to make with some very important facts:
- I am fully aware that DbD isn't a balanced game in the slightest.
- I am fully aware that Knight isn't fun to verse for most people.
- I do not think people should be forced to keep playing a game they find unfun.
Now with that being said...
The people who act like this, who give up the moment a game starts because they have to go against something they don't like, are among the most entitled and toxic people in the DbD community.
I'll now explain why using the Ada in my game as an example. As you may have noticed she's a P100 player, like me. So she would have had to put in at least several hundred hours into the game. Likely over one thousand hours in total. With that in mind it's safe to assume that she is aware of elements of the game that aren't very well designed, or just not to her liking. And that by loading up the game, clicking the "Play Survivor" button, and finding a lobby, that there is a chance that she will encounter something that she doesn't like.
I will testify that there are absolutely things that I hate having to deal with as P100 Knight. Well over 50% of the maps in the game just do not favour him. And if you want to win on these maps you have to pick up the slack of the bad map design and play near flawlessly most of the time. It isn't fair, it isn't balanced, but that's just how DbD is.
I know that when I load into a game there's a high chance that I am going to struggle if I want to do well. It's a fact that I accept because I like playing the character so much and I'm willing to put up with stuff like this so I can enjoy being Knight.
But that does not make it ok to ruin the game for 4 other people simply because someone has to deal with something they don't like. In this case, it was a specific killer. I know that some of you who bothered to read this looked at my build and are thinking: "Knock-Out on Knight? Well of course they gave up! No one wants to be slugged."
Except that the Ada gave up the instant she realised that she was against a Knight. I hadn't even gotten a single down and this person single-handedly ruined the game of 4 other people because they thought they were above dealing with something poorly designed in DbD. People like Ada really don't care about how other people play. They have an arbitrary list of things that they personally don't like. And if they encounter any of these things they will not hesitate to throw the game, or give up, or DC, because they cannot fathom dealing with something they don't like.
Let me break this down for you...
- This player likely put in thousands of hours to P100 a character.
- They did this despite knowing how "unfun" the game was for them.
- They knowingly and willing loaded up the game to play a match with 4 other people who all have to deal with the exact same "unfun" things that they do.
- And the moment they encounter something that they don't like, they prioritise themselves over everyone else because they feel they don't have to deal with things like the other people who also play this game.
- And they repeat this over, and over, and over again because they simply don't care about the other players. Even though they are the only reason they are able to find matches in the first place.
I want to make clear that giving up or DC'ing during a game isn't always a bad thing necessarily. If the game is basically over and the killer is just hooking/waiting for everyone to bleed out because of bad hook spawns, then DC'ing just helps end the game faster for everyone. Or if your 3 team mates just ran into the jaws of a camping Leatherface there simply isn't much you can do and giving up prevents the game from stalling and lets you move onto another match as soon as possible.
And I need to state again that I am not making excuses for the terrible design decisions of this game. We all know that DbD is light-years away from perfect. But if you're going to make the choice of playing it then you have to accept that, at some point, you are going to deal with things that you don't find fun.
And if you don't want to deal with things that you don't find fun, that's totally fine! Load up a different, better made game like DRG and enjoy yourself there. You aren't being held hostage. You are free to do something that, unlike DbD, you know you will enjoy.
But if you keep loading into games, knowing full well what might await you, and you keep DC'ing or giving up, ruining what little fun was left to be had for everyone else, and then refuse to take accountability for your actions...
Then you are part of the problem. And you need to uninstall this game.
EDIT 02/06: Arguing against some of the "counter-arguments" on this thread has been exhausting.
Comments
-
Hope you reported the Ada. They deserve it.
11 -
You can't report players who have anonymous mode enabled. Not that it would have done much. Devs rarely give out bans based on reports anyway.
8 -
I'm probably, deservedly, in the minority.
However, I think I'm at the point in my Killer career where I just empathize with Survivors. My first thought wasn't, "How dare she" it was "That sucks for both of you, I wish BHVR would design Killers that aren't so miserable to play against that people would rather not play DBD."
51 -
Yeah I agree.
As much as I despise Spirit and find Myers super unfun and boring, I don't give up when I face one as much as I would much much rather just go next.
7 -
The Ada didn't do anything bannable, though. She gave up the moment she saw the Knight, yes, but she didn't stall the game or hindered the progress of the match towards its conclusion.
Yes you can. With the new system in place its enough to just click on the Thumbs up/thumbs down icon and report them. This generates a ticket on BHVRs side and they knew who all the players are. If you want to give additional info about a match afterwards via the website, just state that it was your last match and that you reported it ingame. Of course, in this case it wouldn't do anything, as the Ada didn't commit a bannable action.
10 -
Knights not fun to play against, but the ada is far more wrong for giving up early. The last line is so true.
8 -
It's difficult for me to empathise with someone who should know better by now. If they were a new player and still discovering things about the game then I can't blame them for continuing to play since they don't understand everything yet.
But c'mon! This dude was P100. Why is he even still playing if he finds parts of the game so miserable that he would rather stop playing altogether, but will still que up for further matches?
Post edited by SirCracken on13 -
You can't force players to stay in matches they don't find fun. Whether that is based on a specific killer or playstyle, it doesn't matter.
No amount of complaining or calling people entitled will change this fact, and it applies equally to every role. You want a solution? Let people block specific killers, even if it increases their lobby time. Or disable the DC penalty when the bots replace them
Suggesting someone not play an entire game because 1 out of a roster of 32 is unfun for them, or in some cases causes actual sickness is a little ridiculous.
Some matches are going to be a waste of time and it's honeslty on the devs to find ways to solve that rather than expecting people to commit to the 1 out of every 20 matches when it's going to be a miserable time.
23 -
I didn't know you could still report people with anonymous mode on. Thanks for telling me!
0 -
To be fair you're absolutely cracked on knight. I play against you alot on OCE. Yeah that sucks but.
1 -
I sometimes wish that killers had a "suicide on hook" option, though. As a killer you are forced to see a match to its conclusion, no matter how much of a lost case a match is and how much the survivors are hellbend on making you suffer.
You can face a wall and go AFK, but some malicious ones will just 99 the last gen in that situation and try to force a reaction out of you, instead of just finishing asap.
8 -
Too many players in dbd act like babies giving up at the slightest inconvenience.
8 -
Because when DBD works, it's really fun and there's nothing like it.
Unfortunately, BHVR insists on making ONE good Killer a year.
14 -
Someone didn't read the full post. One of the first things I say is "I do not think people should be forced to keep playing a game they find unfun". So most of your comment is moot.
And this part: "Suggesting someone not play an entire game because 1 out of a roster of 32 is unfun for them, or in some cases causes actual sickness is a little ridiculous" Is just silly.
Knight is part of the game. When you play survivor you have a chance to be put against Knight. You don't like him? Then either stop playing the game or accept that you'll go against a Knight everyone once in a while. He's not even a popular killer! I know rarely see him when I play survivor.
It's not unreasonable to expect people to deal with poor game design when you play a match of DbD. But it is very unreasonable to expect others to accept you ruining their game because they don't like the character you're playing as.
Like I said, I don't think you should be forced to keep playing the game if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean that selfishly giving up should be accepted when it's not just your game that's being ruined.
11 -
Is he? Man... Can we play sometime? Any cracked killer is a blessing in my eyes, and I love facing them to improve.
2 -
I guess the 3-month content cycle is the biggest culprit here.
I know that as much as I enjoy Knight as he is now, I'd enjoy him much more if he wasn't blatantly unfinished.
1 -
No actually you are completely wrong. There are ways to force people to either play the game or suffer penalties. This game is suffering the most right now playerbase wise because of all the DC's/afk's/giving up on hook(the biggest one).
This is the only community I have ever been apart of where people think like this. This game would be far healthier without a leave button. I am fine with a surrender button after 5 min when the game can be definitively considered over for either side, but yes you can be forced to eat a exponentially increasing penalty leading to a suspension if you don't want to play the game.
13 -
Sure! Here's a link to my steam profile if you want to friend me:
0 -
I'm not gonna read the whole post because it's an entire disseration of you whining.
I agree entirely. Some sort of concede option would be a decent addition. Sometimes the survivors don't want to play against a particularly egregious build, and I'll be damned if any killer wants to spend 10 minutes looking for one of two default Fengs that are doing their best to sink into the floor. It's simply not a game for being that competitive, and respecting the time you spend with it should be important. Video games are meant to be fun, and an asymmetrical game has a lot of opportunity to be unfun. Finding ways to ensure players keep having fun should be one of the highest design philosophies.
13 -
Thanks!
I think a big part of why people don't like going against Knight is that he's such a rare killer to come across that most people don't have enough experience against him to know how to counter him.
0 -
So do you often make abrasive, profoundly incorrect comments on posts you don't read or am I the exception to the rule?
8 -
It's funny, old dbd was way more unbalanced but people actually played the game out. Now finding players who actually try to play through challenging games is like finding a needle in a haystack.
4 -
OP, since you have the same Steam name as the person who talked in the VHS forums about how people didn't want to learn VHS, they were so lazy and entitled, they were just slackers, etc I'm curious if that was you?
If that was you I have to admit I'm having a hard time taking this seriously as you would have had a past history of really poor takes on games and a definite lack of empathy. Once is a comment but two exact same items come across as a pattern (If that wasn't you please ignore the first two paragraphs as they wouldn't be applicable).
While I do find what Ada did to be abhorrent and think the Ada should have stayed so as not to cause problems for her teammates what @Pulsar said was true in that it sucked for both of you. While you're totally within your rights to expect that people will play the full match and Ada's teammate were counting on her it sucks to be put into a situation that's not fun. I do agree that the Ada should stick to Killer or single player games if they can't stay for their team but rather than uninstalling they should, in my opinion, voice their opinion to the devs. Fortunately BHVR does listen to its players as a whole which is probably why it is still around despite its flaws while so many other asymms didn't do so and failed. It still sucked that it happened and hopefully you won't get too many more matches like that.
4 -
Yeah. It's as if back when the game was less balanced people didn't take it as seriously and had more fun as a result.
But now it seems like people have to actively work to find the fun in their games.
0 -
I'll be honest, I dont love going against it. I just don't enjoy the whole run in a straight line, bait the loop for power then move to the next one. I don't love going against artist for the same reason. Like I'll have a grumble about it when I load in but I wont DC. Personally I like to play the loop with the killer and the challenge is in the mind games.
I also think content creators haven't helped with this, People get the mentality that every knight game is going to be a 45 minute wade through the trenches trying to break a 3 gen that was held from the start of the game. Doesn't excuses ruining the game for 4 other people though.
2 -
Totally agree op.This is why I think early hook suicides should be reportable. Giving up the second you see a killer makes it kind of pointless playing. Had a player do this against a plague a little while ago. And we still finished gens and got 2 out. When messaged and asked why they left, direct quote here, they said playing against plague made them "want to bomb underprivileged nations" apparently.
It isn't just about the one player, it's about the rest of the team, 99% of the time it ruins the game for them and makes it boring for killer. Plus when we get bot backfilling then hook suicides will be even worse because they can't be backfilled.
2 -
Yep. That was me.
I could have worded that post better. As it wasn't supposed to be directed at everyone who was struggling to learn the game. Just specifically the people who played the game for a few hours, got stomped on, and left a rambling post on the forums demanding the game be changed because they refused to even try to learn it. Which there was an abundance of when the game released on steam. So I'll take accountability for that.
I feel like you're being perhaps a bit too judgemental though. "You would have a past history of really poor takes on games and a definite lack of empathy..." You really going to look at a forum post I made about people bitching about video game balance and make a character judgement of me because of that?
I only hope you do the same for everyone you argue with and aren't making exceptions when it suits you...
Regardless, DbD isn't alive right now because BHVR listens to players, (Which they do rather inconsistently at best), it's alive because it had a promising and unique concept with it first came out and then got various popular horror licenses to maintain it's spotlight. Even though the balance of the game has technically gotten better over the years, it has also gotten very stagnant. And the content cycle is so short that good chapters are less common than the bad ones.
I've had so many people ruin my games because they don't like Knight, and at this point it's happened so much I'm basically used to it, but that doesn't meant that people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions.
3 -
Lol.
I'm happy to report that I win most of my Knight games by aggressively pressuring survivors instead of holding a 3-gen and waiting for them to die of old age.
I'm a Knight main after all. Not a Skull Merchant main.
0 -
I hope you run into less people like that; it does suck for everyone involved. Good luck with your matches; I hope they go better.
1 -
Yeah, Thats why I said you were cracked. I know halfway through that its you lmao. I'm the bug facts guy.
1 -
This content has been removed.
-
"Its not entitlement. you can play what you want but i dont have to play it"
That is PEAK entitlement. Further a reason why kermitting on hook should just be disabled/reworked all together.
9 -
it's just insane how bhvr could make a killer a knight main can look down upon. hopefully we never get another knight or sm ever again.
9 -
Perfectly understandable.
1 -
Jesus. I know you are completely biased twoards survivor in every way but people wanting people to not leave games early isn't entitlement.
You clearly have never played another multiplayer game in your life if this is the way you think. I'm just disappointed you feel this way and so many people agree with you, it's gross.
The last line you said basically makes everyone thing you say irrelevant to any conversation, you don't want to play a real game, you want to pick and choose. I'd recommend uninstalling if this is the way you feel.
10 -
Na this is just hard forum copium in crystal form. I'm a super biased solo queue main and survivors DCing ruins the game for everyone. It's not even a two way street. Killer DCs and the game is over, Survivor DCs and we're in a 10 minute slugfest or a 15 minute farmfest. Both are terrible.
4 -
Solution: remove the DC penalty when bots are added to let people leave matches they don't want to play without ruining it for the others. The only reason anyone would have a problem with that as killer is if they want to make the survivors suffer.
2 -
Honestly it’s a just a party game, move on. She doesn’t want to play, let her die.
9 -
I agree both should be punished way more than they currently are. At least when killers dc it's just a queue to the next game, but when survivors dc it's just a slog for both sides. Even though I play more survivor right now that is how I feel. For me personally, when a survivor dc's on first down or maybe even second down I just stand in the middle(don't farm) and let the survivors escape asap. I don't care about bp and I am just trying to go next as fast as possible. A game isn't worth my time if it's over a min in. I was playing blight on fractured and playing terribly while immensely tired a week ago and a Makaila dced on 2nd hook with 2 gens left and 5 hooks total. A potentially intense end-game deleted by one survivors selfish desire to queue up 5 too many games.
What needs to go right now is suicide on hook though, it's just a free dc with no punishment. All of the defenses for it are less than mediocre at best.
I think I am in the minority as a killer main, but DCing will guarantee I get off dbd afterwards because of how bored it makes me. Most killers will probably 3 gen after someone gives up at 5 gens and make the game as gruesomely boring as possible.
For me the average killer is far more boring than the average survivor right now. BUT I am also going out of my way to never play before 12AM NA because that's when I actually get matched with something resembling my mmr. I do not tunnel so that could be a factor but even the 1 in 10 games I allow my self to run the supremely fluid add-on set of alch-ring/green-speed they still don't dc. I don't know if that's because I don't tunnel or the time but it works for me.
2 -
Tldr + you were playing knight
12 -
No one gonna mention the loadout of the survivors, that was clearly aimed at a gen rush? But since its against a Knight, the didn´t feel like it, so they just gave up.
In other words, they were prepared for a short and unfun match for the killer, but couldn´t stand the idea of a unfun match for themselves.
18 -
The Ada didn't do anything bannable, though.
Incorrect. AFKing and "refusing to participate in normal gameplay" are both bannable offenses.
4 -
Mikaela was the only survivor with a gen-rush loadout. But they were also the other survivor who didn't like playing against Knight. And something tells me that if the Ada hadn't given up at the start of the game, Mikaela would have should I start to win.
I'm fine if people run load-outs designed to rush gens since Knight is really good at punishing survivors who group up. But I can see the hypocrisy you're pointing out. I don't think many killer players would enjoy it if they kept finding people with green toolboxes with BNPs.
1 -
Ada and Nancy had a identical build. So possibly a 2 or 3 man swf. With Thaliita being the only player who didn´t knew what was going on.
Biggest issue the community has is, that people can´t put themselves into the position of the other side. They find something fine, as long as it benefits them and find the same thing unfair, when it benefits the other side. Instead of just enjoying the variety and chance to play different, they just stick to the same strategy/loadout.
8 -
Good job, 80% of all matches now containerl a ragequit and the overall matchquality and fun are in the dumps. Bots are a bandaid, not a solution and most importantly not a reason to scratch the leaver penalty.
Tldr + still not a valid reason to ragequit.
5 -
Dude, just move on to the next game.
6 -
Maybe it's just me that has a severe lack of empathy but I can't understand giving up instantly upon facing a Killer you do not like. I mean where do we draw the line? Should people be allowed to DC/give up on certain maps instantly? On every killer they don't like? On every survivors they see? Not play against, just see, like "Oh you're P100 well I'm not playing" or "Oh a Nea well I'll just AFK then".
Look I'm the first one to go cry in a corner of the basement when I get severly outplayed but at least I tried. People who don't even try, I don't know, it's so disrespectful to the others. I'm really against the "My enjoyment is far superior to yours and if it's not how I want at the get go you won't get a proper game because I said so".
Not saying you said that of course. Maybe I'm totally in the wrong.
4 -
Ah yes, classic Gen Rush-Loadout when one Survivor brings a good Toolbox and Streetwise. Love this genrushing Thalita with her Tier 1-Perk. Evil Genrushers.
12 -
There's no point getting upset about it. You can't control how others behave. There are players who dodge in lobby when they see apparent swfs with toolboxes or high prestige players. Survivors don't have the option to killer shop so it's not unusual for this to happen in games. I play solo and see people go afk or DC when they see who the killer is.
10 -
You're right, I can't control how others behave. But I can call them out on their selfish, childish, disrespectful behaviour. And judge them for it. And when enough people judge you for how you behave either you stop caring about what others think, or you change.
I'm not hoping for this Ada to read this post, have an epiphany, and vow to never give up again. But letting players like this know that how they act isn't ok is the first step to stopping it. However unlikely stopping people from giving up really is.
3
