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Is Tiffany smoking in lobby a good message to portray in a game?
Currently, in the lobby animation, Tiffany smokes a cigarette.
Now, in the game we changed a Skull Merchant add-on because it was causing phobia of holes to who had it.
We removed the "Dusty Noose" offering of Dead Dawg Saloon replacing it with a new image and name: "Shattered Bottle".
We did this for a good cause, even if Dbd is a horror game.
Should we allow Tiffany to smoke in the lobby like that? Such an explicit message? Someone could interpret/take this as an encouragement to smoking, even if the intent is not that.
The judgement is your.
(making the point of the post explicit: the game needs a CONSISTENT "internal philosophy" in all its aspects)
Comments
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is this post satire?
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as much as i personally hate smoking, and im disgusted by it..... its not a big deal. her character in the movie is a smoker, and its just part of who she is.
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Meh.
I think phobias or really important things like Mental Health are more important than bad habits like Smoking. Yes, smoking is not good for the body and in I am always happy when I dont have to deal with someone elses smoke, but IMO there is a difference between a noose which might cause issues for people with mental health problems and smoking.
This is an adult game, after all, so in theory, people who can play DBD should also be legally able to smoke.
Also, Bill exists. For years. And he is smoking. For years. His poor lungs.
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I don’t think it’s that deep.
Are we not all adults? Are you going to smoke a cigarette because Tiffany the doll is smoking in Dead By Daylight?
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If it's not that deep, then we did we do this to other add-ons/offerings? It's a serious topic.
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So Bill should be removed from dbd?
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Because those other things involved mental health issues and this is smoking cigarettes.
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Fair enough. Right, also Bill exists.
The thing is that Tiffany does it in such a "showcasing" way, clearly visible, while Bill smokes it with it in the mouth.
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Not removed, but perhaps changed, if we wanna be philosophically consistent with things, in my opinion.
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Guys, this is a horror game.
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Incoming Lollipop Bill, this is so pathetic…
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Smoking is also involved in mental health issues, other than:
" - Smoking can cause **cancer** in many parts of the body, such as the lungs, mouth, throat, voice box, oesophagus, bladder, bowel, cervix, kidney, liver, stomach, and pancreas¹²⁴⁵.
- Smoking can cause **heart disease** and **stroke** by damaging your blood vessels, making them thicken and narrow, increasing your blood pressure and heart rate, and forming clots that can block the blood flow to your heart or brain¹²³⁴.
- Smoking can cause **lung diseases** such as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), which includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis, by damaging your airways and the small air sacs in your lungs. Smoking can also worsen or prolong the symptoms of asthma and other respiratory infections¹²³⁴.
- Smoking can cause **diabetes** by increasing your blood sugar levels and making it harder for your body to use insulin. Smoking can also increase the risk of complications from diabetes, such as nerve damage, kidney disease, and eye problems¹³⁴.
- Smoking can affect your **reproductive system** and **sexual health** by reducing your fertility, causing erectile dysfunction, increasing the risk of miscarriage, premature birth, low birth weight, stillbirth, and birth defects¹²³⁴.
- Smoking can affect your **bones** and **muscles** by weakening them, making them more prone to fractures and osteoporosis. Smoking can also increase the risk of rheumatoid arthritis, a condition that causes inflammation and pain in the joints¹²³⁴.
- Smoking can affect your **eyes** and **vision** by increasing the risk of cataracts, glaucoma, macular degeneration, and diabetic retinopathy, which can lead to blindness¹³⁴.
- Smoking can affect your **immune system** and **infections** by making it harder for your body to fight off germs and diseases. Smoking can increase the risk of tuberculosis, pneumonia, meningitis, and other bacterial and viral infections¹³⁴⁵.
- Smoking can affect your **skin** and **hair** by making them dry, wrinkled, and discolored. Smoking can also cause premature aging, hair loss, and poor wound healing¹²³⁴.
- Smoking can affect your **teeth** and **gums** by staining them, causing bad breath, gum disease, tooth decay, and tooth loss¹²³⁴.
- Smoking can affect your **mental health** and **well-being** by increasing your stress levels, anxiety, depression, and risk of suicide. Smoking can also impair your memory, concentration, and learning abilities¹²³⁴.
These are just some of the many health risks of smoking. Smoking can also reduce your overall quality of life, increase your health care costs, and shorten your lifespan. Quitting smoking can lower your risk of these health problems and add years to your life. If you need help to quit smoking, you can talk to your doctor or visit the NHS Smokefree website²..
Source: Conversation with Bing, 28/11/2023
(1) Health Effects of Cigarette Smoking | CDC. https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/effects_cig_smoking/index.htm
(2) What are the health risks of smoking? - NHS. https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/lifestyle/what-are-the-health-risks-of-smoking/.
(3) Health Risks of Smoking Tobacco | American Cancer Society. https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/tobacco/health-risks-of-tobacco/health-risks-of-smoking-tobacco.html.
(4) Health effects of tobacco - Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_tobacco.
(5) Health Effects | Smoking and Tobacco Use | CDC. https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/health_effects/index.htm.
(6) Getty Images. https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/in-this-photo-illustration-a-man-smokes-on-august-1-2013-in-news-photo/175127122. "
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Kids aren't stupid you know... long as you don't BS them and answer open and honestly about things they aren't a problem. Obviously you have tailor your response to a level they would understand, but being honest about is a respect thing to them that breeds respect from them as well.
I've told my niece and nephews what it is, why people do it. I also say that I personally think starting to smoke is one of the dumbest things you can do, and I tell them why, but everyone has their own reasons for doing it and its their decision. I've also said some of the smartest and coolest people I've ever known also smoke and do all kinds of drugs, so make of that what you will.
I respect them, and they respect me, and let them ask whatever they want.
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Tiffany smoking in-game is perfectly fine.
Dead by Daylight is an 18+ game, and all of the relevant warnings are on the box.
At some point, people have to be responsible for their own mental well-being. I’m kind of tired of perfectly innocuous things being changed…
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I can understand the feeling, and how this makes sense also, but the game has to go in a philosophically CONSISTENT direction: either we remove all the bad things as much as possible, or we do not.
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I'm not sure why you're comparing phobias to a "bad message" ? BHVR removed some triggering stuff because people can't control having bad reactions to them. Removing smoking has nothing to do with this at all, it's still a +18 horror game that is not aimed at impersonable children who most definitely shouldn't play a game where people get brutally murdered. Also, Bill has been in the game since basically forever lol.
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THAT'S THE POINT: there's no philosophical consistency.
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Killers are all bad role models so smoking is instantly portrayed as bad as a big meanie is doing it - therefore we should have even more characters smoking. By the end of the week I expect Clown to have a cigar in his mouth.
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If we remove all of it then we quite literally need to delete the game because the game is based on “bad things”.
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Context?? This is an 18+ game, there should not be kids in this game and taking care of the if is already problematic, because if they have access to it we have a completely different problem.
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I agree with this point of view to a certain degree, the problem is: the game needs to have a consistent "internal philosophy" of what it does and changes.
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ugh, I don' think a character who smokes being represented as such is gonna cause any major impacts on global health.
Same goes for the noose change, "hang'em high" was part of the old west.
How much do we need to bubble wrap the sensibilities of the modern snowflake?
I find it really odd that in a game where the goal is to brutally torture and murder 4 people we are debating the censoring of a cigarette.
EDIT and no I'm not a smoker.
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Someone who is in a bad mental health way, perhaps in a depression period, could think "######### it, let's just smoke" just because they saw it. If it's for the 18+, why did they remove the Dusty Noose?
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For the record, I don’t think the Dusty Noose (and similar) should’ve been changed.
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It is an 18 rated... but if you think that matters... it doesn't... as stupid as that is. I worked for 5 years selling games at a major retailer to parents. Explained games like Grand Theft Auto 4 every time in detail.... gang related violence, drugs and prostitution, the whole 9 yards.
Guess how many parents didn't buy their kid the game in the entire time I worked there? ... 3.
I wouldn't do it myself, but there are kids at the age of 7 that watch things I didn't see until I was 17. So my point is, even if youre a responsible parent, most arent, and theyre gonna encounter this stuff at some point. So when they ask you about things they've heard about or seen, you don't want to treat them like idiots. Be honest with them.
The relevance to this thread is, Tiffany smoking is not a big deal at all, and definitely shouldn't be censored.
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If your willpower is so low that watching a doll in a videogame smoke makes you wanna do it, theres not much chance for you anyway.
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Good point, fair enough. Problem: who said that killers are to be interpreted as "bad roles models" ? Some are even VERY humanized, where they kill just because the Entity says so but they'd be good people.
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Sure, but this still has nothing to do with this game? Like sure people should talk to their children about this stuff, but they should not get their underage children this game to begin with, so we cannot really assume those irresponsible parents are gonna care about smoking in that game.
Obviously I know it does not matter for those parents and they still buy it, but the point is we don't solve that issue by making an 18+ game to be not 18+ but to be stricter when it comes to who can get such a game or figure out some other way to prevent children the access to such content.
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Says it right there on the tin.
Killers.
People that kill other people.
If that's somehow a role model to you, that's... disturbing, to say the least.
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I kinda agree with this, good point. The question if there should ever be exceptions to the rule or not.
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That's why my OP was a question, not a statement. We need a consistent "internal philosophy" imo.
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Yeah, and i thought those were dumb too. People these days are too sensitive. Now we can't have characters smoke anymore?
Whats next? Killers can't kill anymore? After all murder isn't a good thing, we shouldn't be promoting it.
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They shouldn't, but I guarantee people have, and will continue to do so.
My actual point is, this is a horror game, and there isn't really any sensible reason to censor it at all.
I've actually knee jerk responded to this thread, so will admit my post is kinda out of left field... but to make an actual point... even taking this worst case scenario (I.e. children playing this game), I'd still be against any censorship.
I'm against censoring smoking on Tiffany, and I'm against the censoring that has already occurred as mentioned in the OP as well.
I also want Mori's to come up to Singularity and Xeno level as standard.
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What kind of point is this?
So we should ignore all the "weak" people just because they have a bad mental health?
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Fair enough.
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The character/persona itself is not necessarily "evil", the Entity controls the characters in the game and changes their mind, even the ones who were "good" in the lore previously, such as The Spirit/Rin Yamaoka.
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I mean, she is basically a vengeful spirit... So when living sure she was not evil, but after that...
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Cleaning up and closing this thread here. Leaving a reminder to please keep discussions respectful, and remember the Forum Rule to avoid discussion of serious topics. Feedback regarding the game is always appreciated, but please remember that, while the Forum is kept more "PG-13" with our rules, the game is rated for Mature-aged players.
And a reminder that the Forum is not a place for medical discussion or advice, and it is best left to your doctor, and medical experts. If you or someone you care about is struggling with mental health, Crisis hotline - Wikipedia these are telephone numbers for no matter where you are in the world, which you can reach to talk to someone professionally; and many of these services offer text chats as well, for those that do not wish to speak to someone directly on the phone.
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