The Trickster Feedback
Comments
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Question:
- Revert time between throws to 0.33 sec (was 0.25).
Does this also mean that Trickster will not speed up the throwing rate anymore? Because previously on Live he started at 3 Knives per second (so 0,33 seconds time between them) and increased it to 4 knives per second (0,25 seconds between them). On PTB it was changed to flat 4 Knives per second, and then reverted.
But does this mean it is the same as it was before on Live? So starting with 3 and going up to 4?
(Asking here because there is a discussion in another thread)
11 -
Hi I want to give my opinion about the trickster since I am a trickster of more than 2000 h with it. The changes make them feel weaker than before due to the changes to the number of knives needed to wound and the time they fall, but what has affected this killer the most is the casting speed as it feels very slow and the main event is useless because he throws the knives at the same speed as you throw normally
I want to believe that the main event is bugged and that's why I throw the knives slow but if not please make me throw them faster also consider returning the casting speed to 4 knives per second or 3 knives but that it increases over time, the problem that makes the trickster unplayable currently is the slow speed of shoots please consider increasing it as quickly as possible in the next fix patch of errors
If you don't think it would be a good idea to give it more speed when throwing, please reduce the number of knives needed to remove a health status to 6, as throwing them slower and lowering them faster would be balanced
22 -
Hiya Aven_Fallen,
With today's update, it was changed so that he throws 3 knives per second; the ramp up has been removed.
2 -
i played few games. it is what i expected. it is slower at base and main event is useless. the survivor goes around the corner and i am stuck in main event. if i cancel it, i get stunned. that is my feedback from 3 games of trickster. these changes do not make feel like i am rapid-fire killer.
23 -
Main Event throw-rate feels very slow currently. Wondering if this is a bug? There's a 1.33x multiplier during Main Event, but with the Blade throw-speed at base being 3bp/s, Main Event now throws at 4bp/s. It was much faster on the PTB and on the previous patch.
23 -
Hi Tatariu!
If you haven't already, could you create a bug report here, filling in all the required info, so we can look into this? Thanks!
1 -
Yeah, you were correct, I was wrong. I really did not expect them changing it in a way that it is worse than it was before on live.
Thank you! What was the reason behind removing the ramp up? If I may ask?
8 -
it is intended. the old main event was 1.66x. it was lowered to 1.33x because he had modifier from 0-33% ramp up from 1-8 knives. the modifier was removed and put into base-kit. Now they reverted buff so now he has nerfed main event and nerfed throwing mode.
I was certain at the moment i saw it. remember, this was suppose to be make him a better killer. so much for that.
6 -
4,6 m/s and the laceration changes still fail to make the killer more engaging.
The direction to go for him was to reduce his throw rate and make only a few knife throws with a longer wind up required to injure a survivor. The reason why Trickster fails is also the reason why the Huntress works. Meaningfully dodgeable and counterplay-able with multiple layers of mindgames projectiles are fun.
115 just serves to improve his zoning and encourage W holding even more.
10 -
Just played a game as him and although the increased movement speed felt awesome, Main Event was a real let down. Even without recoil I didn't get much value at all. It was way too short to have an effect or maybe it was just the Garden of Joy being a pain as per usual. The throwing just felt so sluggish and I couldn't do much when a survivor simply turned a corner. I would play more games as him but, if others are struggling with the same issue, then I believe the experience won't change. I'll see how more games play out in the future but I don't know how this update would make Trickster seem more engaging.
3 -
Solid explanation of why the rework failed.
7 -
He feels really, really bad to play, guys. This misses the mark completely, I am sorry to say.
The static, slow throw rate (ugh it feels so slow) with 8 laceration bars, 10s wear-off timer, he now feels like he NEEDS 4.6m/s just to keep up. And that compensation doesn't feel WORTH it, it feels like a very negative tradeoff in terms of both strength and fun factor. It's not enjoyable to have a drastically worse power for 4.5% extra movement speed. I just don't want that as a player. I would never have asked for something like that. I hope that makes sense.
Ultimately, my issue is mainly how his regular blade-throwing has been mangled. I really don't even care what you do with Main Event as long as the rest of his kit feels great and strong enough, but I also don't understand this push to have Main Event so frequent because the issue with Main Event before is that it took a long time to build up, but wasn't very good for anything except "backrevving" people and camping due to its extreme movement speed penalty. It would've made sense to make Main Event STRONGER so it feels like a satisfying "ultimate" worthy of taking 30 blades to build up, but instead, it's now 5x more frequent so it HAS to stay bad. Now it also has half the duration and the throw rate feels really slow, but that may be a bug. It's not any more fun to use, and that's a common theme with all of these changes (I'm not trying to be rude, it's just true from a player perspective).
I'm worried that if you choose to buff him, you'll increase the laceration decay timer. Although this would be a buff, this would do so little for his fluidity and fun factor which has taken a major hit this patch.
I have to agree with other experienced Trickster players that the only thing he really needed was some extra reward for hitting ranged shots and a Main Event buff. I personally, very selfishly wanted ricochet basekit but that's a dumb personal desire, and I know some people don't enjoy ricochet blades lol. Anyway, I hope this nugget of feedback is appreciated.
27 -
He feels like #########. I was going to try being moderate with my language, but no, this is so bad. He just doesn't have a power anymore. He throws knives so slowly that the recoil removal isn't a factor. The extra stacks needed for damage and the slower throw rate make any obstructions so strong that just hitting them with the bat is practically always the correct choice, especially now that he's a normal speed killer.
You can't throw knives at range because there's too much time between the first and last knives that there's always going to be cover. You can't throw knives up close without wasting time, both just to hurt them and then to reload afterwards.
There's some kind of combo system that I just don't know about. If there's some kind of feedback on that outside of how long Main Event lasts, I genuinely can't tell.
If you find two survivors together, bodyblocking is so freaking easy to do with no downsides. Before I'd've at least ramped up my throw rate to injure the new person, but now I'm gonna be far enough away that I'm probably not hurting anybody now. Except myself. Because playing Trickster makes me sad now.
EDIT: So I guess I should give actual suggestions:
Make the fire rate toggleable. One mode where he throws slower without recoil, another where he throws faster with recoil.
Change Main Event from just unlimited knives to throwing fans of knives.
Hell, make the throw rate 2/s but four hits to injure.
Just don't kill his power so bad that ignoring it saves you time.
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Well, I would say it is disappointing.
You may say he is more noob friendly, but he is definetly not a better killer than before.
- recoil -> that's the noob friendly part, but if you had enough hours and played PC, you didn't really care about it
- movement speed -> that's relevant on short loops for sure, but doesn't seem worth the cost
So main event:
- duration is not long enough to keep for next chase
- you are going to injure a survivor before you can use it
So what's the issue about it? Main even was used basically get behind a survivor and try to down them from healthy just with main event.
- survivor is injured, so if I get behind them, I can just M1 to down
- if there is distance, I risk losing LOS and get stunned when main event ends
- faster decay means if I don't get down during main event, it's mostly likely all gone.
Slower throw rate and more blades needed is also terrible combination. You just increased his time to down and decay is faster, which is going to get you into even more trouble.
It also means you have to reload basically after each chase.
I feel bad for Trickster mains.
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Post edited by XenRedspike on2
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Just decrease number of knives required.
7 would be enough, so you don't get main event (can keep it for next survivor)
2 -
First of all, I am Korean, and since this article was written using a translator, I ask for your understanding that there may be a problem with the delivery of the content.
I love this game and the character The Trickster very much.
Of my entire playtime, I think I spent a lot of time playing The Trickster.
I was very happy with the news of The Trickster's uplift. Because I have a great affection for this character.
Even my Steam nickname has been 학지운 for years on end!
But it's very sad at the moment. The Trickster's unique appeal has been lost due to adjustments made since the test, and it has become too weak.
I like to play Killer. I usually play The Trapper, The Trickster, The Pig, The Onryo ̄ and The Dredge.
Almost everyone would agree that the characters I usually play have in common are not very strong characters.
Nevertheless, the reason why I am affectionate with these characters is that they have different charms.
The Trapper recommends predicting survivors' movements and designing where traps will be placed.
The pig and The Onryo ̄ are also attractive that they can keep generators in check with traps or operations.
The Dredge is a character with a charm that can relatively easily make survivors feel scared and funny.
Other attractions are also good, such as The Hunless's rifle, which can cause injuries with a single shot.
The Trickster was a cool character, a man-of-the-art charm, like a machine gun that quickly throws a dagger and raises a survivor. This was a very special attraction that didn't exist for other characters, and I loved it.
But now The Trickster has lost the charm I loved.
I want The Trickster to be a very strong character of course, but I want to be a more loved character without losing its original charm.
Please bring back the charm of The Trickster.
The ideal buff I think is below.
1. 4.6 Reduction of speed in special attacks and maintenance of range of heart sound
(The reason is that The Trickster is a mid-range character, not a long-distance character, such as The Artist, The Executioner, The Nemesis, The Demogorgon, The Xenomorph, etc.)
2. Set the number of daggers to cause injuries up to 8 to 10, but make sure to speed up the throwing attack.
(The reason is that you can make use of the charm of a fast attack like a machine gun, and the player can feel a more satisfying hit.)
3. The main event makes it available at the desired timing, such as The Oni and The Doctor, or gives it more power.
(Example of giving more power is to give the dagger thrown during the main event the performance of the next add-on. Trick Blade, Edge Of Revival Album, Cut Thru U Single if possible, Diamond Cufflinks would also be included.)
Lastly, I love Dead by Daylight very much.
I believe that this game will continue to give more pleasure to many players in the future.
I understand that you have recently suspended some of the services you were providing to Korea. It's very sad and unfortunate, but if possible, please pay attention to Korea again someday.
That's all for my writing. I hope all of you who read it have a good day.
[the original text]
우선 저는 한국인이며, 이 글은 번역기를 사용하여 작성한 것이기 때문에 내용 전달에 문제가 있을 수 있음에 양해를 구합니다.
나는 이 게임과 The Trickster라는 캐릭터를 매우 사랑합니다.
나의 전체 플레이 타임 중에서 나는 The Trickster를 플레이 하는 것에 적지 않은 시간을 사용했다고 생각합니다.
저는 The Trickster의 상향 소식에 너무나 기뻤습니다. 왜냐하면 저는 이 캐릭터에 커다란 애정이 있기 때문입니다.
심지어 저의 스팀 닉네임은 몇 년 동안 계속 <span translate="no">학지운</span> 인 걸 요!
하지만 현재는 매우 슬픕니다. 테스트 이후 조정 된 내용으로 인해 The Trickster는 특유의 매력이 사라졌으며, 너무나 약해졌습니다.
저는 킬러를 플레이하는 것을 좋아 합니다. 주로 The Trapper, The Trickster, The pig, The Onryō, The Dredge를 플레이 합니다.
제가 주로 플레이 하는 캐릭터들의 공통점은 그다지 강한 캐릭터가 아니라는 것에 거의 모두가 동의할 것입니다.
그럼에도 제가 이 캐릭터들에 애정이 있는 이유는 바로 캐릭터들의 각기 다른 매력이 있기 때문이죠.
The Trapper는 생존자의 동선을 예측하고 덫을 설치 할 위치를 설계하는 것이 좋습니다.
The pig와 The Onryō도 덫이나 운영으로 발전기를 견제할 수 있다는 것이 매력이죠.
The Dredge는 비교적 쉽게 생존자에게 공포와 재미를 느끼게 할 수 있는 매력을 가진 캐릭터입니다.
그 외에도 단발로 부상을 입힐 수 있는 The Huntress의 소총과 같은 매력도 좋습니다.
The Trickster는 빠르게 단검을 던져 생존자를 부상 시키는 기관총과 같은 대인전이 매력인 멋진 캐릭터였죠. 이 것은 다른 캐릭터에게 존재하지 않는 매우 특별한 매력이었고, 저는 이 것을 매우 좋아했습니다.
하지만 지금 The Trickster는 제가 사랑했던 매력을 잃었습니다.
저는 The Trickster가 물론 매우 강한 캐릭터가 된다면 좋겠지만, 그보다 본래의 매력을 잃지 않고 더 사랑받는 캐릭터가 되기를 원합니다.
제발 The Trickster의 매력을 다시 돌려주세요.
제가 생각하는 이상적인 버프는 아래와 같습니다.
1. 이속 4.6과 특수 공격 시 이속 감소 및 심장소리의 범위 유지
(이유는 The Trickster는 The Artist, The Executioner, The Nemesis, The Demogorgon, The Xenomorph 등과 같이 원거리가 아닌 중거리 캐릭터이기 때문이다.)
2. 부상을 입히기 위한 단검의 갯수를 8~10개 까지 설정하되, 반드시 투척 공격 속도를 빠르게 한다.
(이유는 기관총과 같은 빠른 공격의 매력을 살릴 수 있으며, 플레이어가 만족스러운 타격감을 더 많이 느낄 수 있기 때문입니다.)
3. 메인 이벤트는 The Oni 및 The Doctor와 같이 원하는 타이밍에 사용할 수 있도록 하거나 더 강력한 힘을 부여한다.
(더 강력한 힘을 부여하는 것의 예시를 들어보자면 메인 이벤트 중에 던지는 단검에는 다음 애드온의 성능을 부여하는 것입니다. Trick Blade, Edge Of Revival Album, Cut Thru U Single 가능하다면 Diamond Cufflinks도 포함되면 좋겠습니다.)
마지막으로 저는 데드 바이 데이라이트를 매우 사랑합니다.
저는 이 게임이 앞으로도 많은 플레이어들에게 더 많은 즐거움을 줄 것이라고 믿습니다.
최근 한국에게 제공하던 서비스를 일부 중단한 것으로 알고 있습니다. 너무 슬프고 아쉽지만 가능하다면 언젠가 다시 한국에게 관심을 가져주기 바랍니다.
제 글은 여기까지 입니다. 읽어주신 여러분 모두 좋은 하루 되기를 바라요.
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I don't know whether this is a bug or not but most of the knives seem to be passing straight through the survivors never did this before they also seem to be landing way lower than i am aiming then before feels really bizzare
5 -
Everything about him is terrible. Literally everything was a nerf except for 4.6 m/s. Might be the worst killer in the game right now.
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I will preface this by saying that I am a console player. As such, I was looking forward to the Trickster Update, wanting to see how the removal of recoil, in particular, would change him.
Recoil Removal
This is, hands down, the best change. It's mostly helpful to console players such as myself, but I don't think anyone will miss this feature; on PC, it was pointless, and on console, it was crippling. I'm glad it's gone.
8 knives to damage + 3 knives per second
This has a lot of snowball changes, some of which I think might have been intended, some not.
With Trickster needing 8 knives, his DPS naturally takes a hit. Before with 6 knives to damage and his climbing throw rate, it went from 2-1.5 seconds per health state (meaning, 2-1.5 seconds to damage a survivor 1 health state with 0 misses). On release, it was 2.67~2 seconds per health state.
Now, it's a flat 2.67 per second. HOWEVER. it takes 8 knives, and you still only have 44. On release, you could get 7.5 health states, 7.33 last patch, and now it's 5.5---IF you hit all knives. You're going to miss a bunch because will dodge, hitboxes aren't always intuitive, gamepads aren't that precise while the projectile is tiny, etc. This basically means his DPS is neutered (you know, his main draw), and his laceration decays quickly, so his power isn't that good in high wall tiles, and---I'm gonna be honest with you, this is terrible.
It has this weird effect where his power feels paradoxically useless and stupidly strong. If you try to w-key, then you die because he's ranged. If you dodge, he's 4.6 and can just run to you; you die, and he zones you as if he's pre-nerf Slinger. But he can't really do this that quickly, so it's almost exactly like Old Slinger. Yeah, he's oppressive, and he'll down you, but it takes so long that both sides just end up miserable as gens fly.
SMG...?
So, Trickster was meant to sorta be an SMG; he misses a lot but throws a lot. The problem is that, well, his being 4.6 doesn't just make it redundant; it makes using his power a dumb idea. Just whack them. Unless they're running straight or in a low-wall tile, you should just hit them. Your best play is to throw the occasional knife to keep the laceration up/building because trying to spam knives like he's ostensibly intended wastes ammo and takes too long to damage.
Bottomline
What I'm trying to get at is he doesn't feel better. In fact, he might actually feel worse than before on both sides. His lower throw rate and more knives to damage while still having a low knife count feel terrible. His 4.6 speed with his now lower DPS makes his power feel redundant at points. In tiles he was good at, he'll still kill you, just slower. In tiles he struggled at, he just powers through as a 4.6 (boring for him, annoying for survivors who will feel there's little they can do). Out of tiles, his power still takes forever to deal damage, so you're better off not using it unless they actively choose to ignore it. Everything is made in such a way that it feels like the game DOESN'T want you to use his power anymore, and in that case, what's the point in playing Trickster? If you say the point is to use his power less, that feels a little insulting for previous Trickster players who have already dedicated their time to learning/mastering this killer's power, only for it to be largely inoffensive yet frustrating for survivors.
11 -
He looks a lost killer with this rework. Noone expected for this changes and all be here now. Hes more weak than before guys. Honestly, PTB was amazing and maybe oppressive killer, but, now, hes feels stranger.
4.6 OK but, you are throwing knifes a lot of time and his movement speed throwing is the same while hes using his power. Just help for navigating.
Main event now is to short and slow (bug?), even star every 8 knifes the main event looks more weak than before.
8 knifes to injure with the new static throwing speed is absolutely awful.
Honestly i feel him more sad than before, because the trully buff come were, 4.6, no recoil e main event more frequently, but i personally think the nerfs to these things could be happen was to big. I prefer the old Trickster than this. I dont now what could make about him, but, i dont like this version between PTB/Live.
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Otz, who previously said Trickster was S tier, now thinks he worse than before rework and very bad. See https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1989572401?t=04h31m31s
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For people on controller, the removal of recoil is definitely an improvement (the recoil was almost inconsequential on M&K anyway after a couple games and the removal of recoil makes little difference when using M&K).
The higher number of knives (only 2 more) needed to injure only really hurts Trickster's lethality until people truly get used to Trickster, two more knives (especially with no recoil which makes it much easier) is not a big difference unless the Survivor has a way to suddenly leave a loop, break line of sight, and get enough distance to get the laceration meter down (something made harder by the movement speed increase.).
The Main Event change (along with the related add-ons) from the PTB was necessary as it was completely overtuned. Despite the number of blades needed not being much higher at least the infinite ammo build is dead and his camping potential went down a bit. However it's still a bit too abundant even if the ability's injury potential itself was nerfed substantially. It honestly felt better on both sides to have Main Event be a rare but very dangerous thing if used correctly. In the previous version, Trickster could potentially down two or three people in seconds if Main Event was used at the right moment and it could all but guarantee a down on a single Survivor when used in the open, but it was a rare thing and the Trickster had to use his power a lot to trigger it. If anything the only change I would've made to Main Event was to be able to use it whenever you wanted after landing the required number of blades without being on a timer before it resets without having gotten the chance to even use it, making the Trickster able to save that Main Event until the right moment (although it should be limited near a hook as it is a very powerful camping tool).
The movement speed increase was quite frankly a bad change as, like all projectile Killers (except Artist for some reason, she should be 4.4 in my opinion), Trickster doesn't need to close distance to injure/down Survivors and making him 4.6 effectively removes the only solid counterplay Survivors had in (certain) loops since the Trickster can now simply brute-force a basic attack much quicker if the loop doesn't allow for easy knives. In most of my chases I end up injuring/downing people more with basic attacks than my power which is odd for a projectile Killer. Even when out of ammo I never really feel the need to drop chase to reload even when in a decent loop like before since without a strong pallet/strong window it's simply more efficient to just swing at the Survivors.
Other than that, most of the changes were good, slower throw rate increases accuracy and makes ammo easier to conserve to compensate for slightly slower injuries and add-ons were reworked pretty well to account for the changes.
1 -
I played a match against bots to get a feel for the changes.
Right now, Main Event is just worthless. The firerate is currently the same as using your power normally and Main Event doesn't last long enough to get any damage states out of it.
8 -
Well you would expect with these changes that he would feel amazing but he actually feels worse than before. As many others have stated Main Event feels bugged, the throw speed is super slow compared to what it should be, and the 8 knives needed is pretty rough even with the improved ms. I would personally like to see Main Event buffed, and his base knives increased to 50 from 44. His knives also just feel soooo sloowwwwwwwwww. I find myself M1ing more because it just takes too long to damage with knives
5 -
Look trickster got some excelente buffs but the slow throw rate is so bad, and the laceration in 10 seconds is really frustrating, i think is better make him throw the blades faster and have more blades like 50
3 -
Hi there! I just wanted to leave my feedback on the trickster change! I played the PTB and I played him today. On the PTB the changes felt really strong! Like Really Really strong, to the point where I was like oh yeah they should probably shift this a little. Then I saw the changes going live today and on paper it still sounded good. I love the new main event! I love it a lot! Before when I would play trickster I felt like I would get it maybe 3 times a game and every time I was in a situation where it was basically useless to me. Now I feel like it's a fully integrated part of his kit and I want to use it all the time! The speed boost and the recoil removal are also both great! Aiming with his knives feels different now and I feel a lot more comfortable doing it. My big problem is he just feels kinda bad in most chases. The combination of having to hit 8 shots to fill the laceration meter and the laceration meter going down so fast is just tough to play against. I was never able to just down someone with the knives today. I always had to use a knife and bat combo move to down someone, and most of the times using my knives just didn't feel like the move. I think he either needs to have the speed of his knives brought back up, or the number of hits needed lowered. Honestly even 7 would feel better, but 6 would be nice. Maybe like 3.5 knives per second is the move? I'm not sure, but currently I can't really play him. I love the trickster and I always have, so I'm hoping you guys can just tweek him a little bit one more time to get him perfect. I know that he's almost there and I appreciate the changes you are making! He was pretty basic feeling before, and the new main event has already made him so much more interesting! He just needs to feel a little less sluggish.
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A document made by two INSANELY good trickster mains that tells why this "buff" wasn't good. As well as feedback from other Trickster mains with thousands of hours. ABSOLUTELY devs or someone who worked on this "buff" should check it out and take the feedback.
14 -
The knife throwing speed has been slowed and increased by the number of knives needed to do damage, so it is clearly weaker on terrain with tall obstacles, minus the faster footing. In strong terms, there is no need to use the Trickster.
In addition, his main event projectile speed is also very slowed down, making it useless to trigger it on anything but the most open terrain. he was certainly too strong in PTB with certain add-ons, but even so, his weakness in this implementation is just too much.
This is the same process as when the hillbilly was nerfed. When management makes a change by calling it a profound adjustment, it is only a convenient adjustment for those who do not normally play killers.
1 -
The lower fire rate due to the removal of the ramp up combined with the extra 2 knives required to inquire makes tricksters power a lot weaker.
The added speed to trickster is really nice however due to the fact that he needs more knives to do damage he will use more in a chase meaning he will have to reload more which slows him down.
The extra knives needed to down a person combined with the reduced decay delay makes it more frustrating to run out of knives mid chase.
Main event does not seem to increase your throwing speed (potential bug) so all it really does now is save ammo and slow you down which makes me feel like I need to rely on my base power in order to keep up. Which deters me from using it and makes the increased knife requirement issue more apparent.
2 -
only feedback I have regarding the changes is
as a whole his power feels weaker and more frustrating than ever to use, main event is still useless outside of the case that I need one extra knife for an injure/down
the movement speed is a welcome change its kinda all he really needed if I'm gonna be entirely honest since his release.
why keep the increases in knives needed for an injure and the lower time for decay to occur if the knife throw rate wont properly be adjusted for it
a healthy in between for throw rate from ptb to current live build would have been perfect or maybe even slightly slower than that of ptb like 3.75 knives a second or even 3.5 I was particularly excited for this patch since the buffs he received on ptb made him fun to play but I am finding it incredibly hard to even enjoy matches as the trickster. I dare say prior to the changes he was better then than he is now
overall it was one good change and several bad ones at least chucky is fun when the camera doesn't bug out
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When you announced the changes to him I was really hopeful to see a viable Trickster. During the PTB he was too oppressive with the iri addon and the faster main event addons combo those needed a nerf for sure and they got nerfed. But you guys overdid it unfortunately making his throw rate slower from 4 blades/s to 3 blades/s is a really bad decision meanwhile you haven't touched the laceration decay.
This makes his ability useless. Especially against good players who know how to play/loop against him he is going to lose in every chase if he uses his knifes. The recoil removal is worthless in a long distance chase because of the fast decay of laceration until you catch up to the survivor it already went back to 0. On higher loops his movement speed buff helps a bit, but the higher laceration and the slower throw rate just kills the previously mentioned buff to his mvmnt...
During the PTB if we don't count the before mentioned addon combo he was so much fun to play and I really do think he wasn't oppressive at all because of the 4 knifes/s (time between throws 0.25 seconds) throw rate which is now 3 knifes/s (tbt 0.33 s). He was oppressive because of that already nerfed addon combination.
My feedback is that you should revert the throw rate change back the way it was on the PTB and take a look at the live Main Event that feels like a bug its so slow now.
Post edited by Azazel1899 on5 -
I think the throw speed ramp up should be brought back at least to an extent.
Main event throw speed should be buffed or reverted if it's not currently bugged.
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Imo you you guys didn’t need to nerf the ptb change so fast. Ppl were clearly over reacting. Imo he would be perfect in his ptb state minus the following:
- blades for main event 6 —> 8
- Keep the changes to the add-ons that lower the blades needed to gain main event
everything else was actually fine
as OTZ said, now he’s just worse and fell like pig with a bad ability and just a m1 killer with 115
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4'4 Trickster was more deadly and better than this new version.
PTB Trickster was op. Live Trickster (current one) feels much weaker and boring than both PTB and Old versions.
Personally I'd prefer the old trickster (6 knives & 4'4) with some tweaks to main event (the old trickster's real drawback)
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Also with the current change to 8 blades -> health state, I feel like I down people much faster by doing basic m1 attacks, which is bad and boring. So he should stick with 6 knives -> health state for sure.
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He feels like he lost many reasons why some players played him.
Throw rate nerf is huge, nearly close to thinking he got heavily nerfed. Main Event doesn't feel good because of this too.
Laceration decay is very penalizing. Like I understand him having 4.6m/s in exchange but this completely turns him into below average M1 killer whose power isn't good at downing.
Overall, massive failure.
If you think he got buffed in crazy amount, play him by yourself I'd recommend.
He will never be better than Huntress in any aspects sadly.
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Honest first impressions : His power definitely feels weaker. I have to agree with endzej's assessment in that he feels weaker in exchange for being 4.6m/s. The trade off is probably not worth it honestly.
But i don't think the update is all bad. No recoil is still very nice, and i think the current throw rate and laceration meter and laceration decay values definitely feels a lot more fair to survivors.
I think it's important that BHVR does further changes to address current frustrations without un-addressing the problems that have already been addressed.
I would look at maybe increasing his movement speed whilst throwing knives, maybe increase the amount of knives he starts with, look at making it faster to change to throw state etc. Just make him feel stronger to play without making him feel more oppressive.
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I agree with every word, but especially with ricochet basekit, I think about it for a while too. It really makes him more interesting and skill depended.
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I'll preface this by saying I am by no means a trickster main, just an occasional enjoyer. And this "buff" feels characterless and clunky. The combination of the reduced throw rate, sooner decay, and the increased laceration meter feels incredibly slow paced and quite bad in chase. The new addons are also uninteresting compared to their previous forms, especially Iri Photocard and Death Throes Compilation which both felt rewarding and with more character before the change. Overall, the nerfs definitely feel like they outweigh the buffs and he has very much lost his previous identity. He now just feels like another M1 killer with slight flavour and I would much rather the old 4.4m/s killer as he was.
Post edited by janeobviouslydoe on1 -
It used to be a killer that required the most precise operating techniques, but it has transformed into the M1 killer, which only feeds on artist-like power.
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Imo PTB Tricksters wasn’t OP, he definitely wasn’t even top 5 contender (being way better than before doesn’t mean OP if you were a low tier killer).
what make ppl over react was due to some YouTube videos with ppl playing against bad survivors.
difficulty some tweaks like making blades for main event up to 8 and changing fizz soda was good
but he definitely wasn’t OP
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First thank you for giving my man Trickster so much attention. Thank you for removing his recoil. Thank you for trying to understand his problems.
But please please developer team please do right by Trickster mains and revert these changes.
I understand that PTB feedback must've been rough to adapt to, but this is not the way. Please let us help you guys. Let us help you, help Trickster and the game.
- Revert the changes; give us old Trickster -> Holidays/Vacations are coming and we dont want to play with a busted Trickster until next year
If you guys have other things to keep on schedule, we understand that. We get that. But if that's the case, please give us old Trickster back.
- If it's not possible to listen to us at this moment, make his power useful, and allow Trickster to be well rounded and balanced, at least revert the changes until you guys have more time. I am praying to my goddess, the Entity. Specially since the holidays are coming, we really should get our old man back. Please please please.
As of right now, it is an actual pain to play Trickster. I am saying this as a player with 1,300 hours but 200 ish games on Trickster. I LOVE HIM. I hate playing him now. Please listen to all the beautiful and useful feedback you have been blessed with on this forum page.
- I will be the first to say that I love the movement buff.. BUT considering all perspectives, if you need to take it away, do so. This is not a valid bargaining chip. It's nice to have but you guys removing recoil makes up for all of that and more.
- Recoil removal was the best thing in this entire rework. I am forever grateful.
- What happened to the soda can? Someone has taken my soda. Return my soda can please and thank you. Why was this reworked/removed? This, the slow firing rate AND the fast blade decay, makes shatter blades (edge of revival addon) useless.
- THIS IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT FIRST. IT"S SUPER IMPORTANT FOR THE HEALTH OF THE GAME. Infinite main event with A GREEN and A YELLOW addon is possible which allows hook camping. And believe it or not, most trickster mains HATE hook camping and tunneling off hook. We do not want to see trickster hook camping. We do not like doing it. Do not encourage this BEHAVIOR in your addons. Thank you.
- Throw rate... Why he shoot slow?? Ok in regular mode but definitely not ok in main event mode. Let us amp up again. This is ridiculous.
- Was making blades decay faster really necessary? I am genuinely curious to know what happened here (and with my soda can).
All these nerfs at once disguised as buffs make me feel like I'm being punished for playing Trickster well. Meanwhile, if I were to use those yellow/green addons, and then camp and tunnel every survivor like I downloaded this game yesterday... well I'll let you guess and that is what is happening inside all Trickster mains minds right now...
Please. Please give us old Trickster back.
If you dont want to give us old Trickster, please listen to the community. His throw rate is way too slow. His minimum blades hit is 8 but blade decay is faster? No. This is unacceptable.
Please we are begging you to listen.
Again, I want to thank you for acknowledging us Trickster mains by trying to fix him. I do love you for trying. I do believe you can make this all right. Thank you.
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I want everyone to remember BHVR's vision for the Trickster update, which is "The Trickster’s fast-paced attacks are what set him apart from other ranged Killers, so we wanted to focus on this rapid fire ‘machine gun’ gameplay for this update. We asked ourselves: What’s better than throwing a bunch of knives? Answer: Throwing even more knives." And everyone should honestly ask themselves, "does the current Trickster meet this goal"?
The biggest problem is that the removal of recoil doesn't justify the other nerfs. Yes, it's nicer for console to have zero recoil, but against survivors that are micrododging, trying to rapid fire knives (without main event) is a good way to run out of knives early. Even with the nerfed max throw rate, I'm often still throwing knives one at a time, or in bursts of 2, to try to catch the micrododging, which means I'm just flat out punished by this whole rework.
Suggestion: Main event is so underwhelming now, that we should be able to have main event activate at 4 knife hits, because main event throws knives so slowly right now that it's literally only good for the unlimited ammo now. And I'd rather have "much more main events", so I can have "much more knives", and if that requires a weak main event that's only good for the unlimited ammo, then that's the best solution.
The only way for Trickster to meet the goal of "rapid fire" gameplay, is to have way more main events than he has on live, due to the fact that rapid fire outside of main event is often not good, even with zero recoil.
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So, I'm a Trickster main for almost 2 years now and also started playing the game because of him and honestly, this rework makes me considering to switch to huntress/slinger/artist.
He feels so much slower, clunky and goes against so many things bhvr said in their announcement on the 'rework'...
If you don't want to give him the 4 knifes/sec, then at least let him ramp up throwing speed like in the past - and also, if it's a bug, please fix main event - or if it's not a bug, make him throw knifes faster there. I see no use in using main event at the moment as it is right now, only has drawbacks, maybe except the infinite knifes.
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He feels so slow at his power, it was like blender on ptb, but now it feels awful to throw the knives. 4.6 with awful than before ability.(for himself in a bad way)
It was good balance on ptb, all u have to change is his main event. Nothing more. Cuz 8 knives at 3per knife per sec throw speed, hmm, 5,3 ENTIRE seconds without fail, thats feels wierd to do.
Old trickster felt best in a close distance, cuz his knives do a thing!
Now everybody can outrun them and u cant do anything about it!
AND YEAH main event lose it efficiency, cuz it also throwing slower!
I forgot about addons/ its odd real odd.(Almost every addon is useless, exept speed in the ability and reload speed.)
Plz, give him old throwing speed with acceleration, or at least down Laceration to 7 blades.
I hope changes will be soon! If it wasnt we will have situation like with legion after his first "rework"! If character after buff lose efficiency and people say that his powerless u need to listen to them/ Or u just left it like it is , as always did...
Post edited by LordHeXaGoN on2 -
Thank you all for sharing your feedback on The Trickster's changes. We're reading through and collecting all of it to share with the rest of the team.
We love hearing from you and appreciate you taking time to comment, so please keep sharing your thoughts!
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After some gameplay I feel like trickster hasn't been changed enough to become his own character, instead of rapid fire huntress more room for skill expression in a different way with fast reaction speeds and good aim it just feels like slower easier to pick up huntress, 2.66s to injure a survivor vs 1.25s but no real refractory time between shots so every miss is just another .33s to try again, and as opposed to what it used to be of ~2s and 1.25s it just feels boring even up close at that point you just m1 and what's the point of a ranged killer if you don't want to use your power 24/7. I think the movement speed buff is ok because it does counteract the pain points a bit of long tiles with no line of sight but since the amount of knives to injure has gone up to 8 and the throw speed is capped at 3 you still have to do about as many loops as before squeezing in knives when you can, as a killer he just doesn't feel fun to play separate from huntress.
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Trickster after these changes genuinely feels clunky and miserable to play as. A throw rate of 3 knives a second combined with the need to hit 8 knives for an injury makes tricksters m2 feel pointless and unfun to use. The knives feel even worse to use than before. Combined with a laceration decay time of 10 seconds, it feels as though a lot of my work dissipates very quickly if the survivor finds cover in a high wall loop or any main building. Main event currently feels like a waste of time, there is no accelerated throw rate (I'm not sure if that is a bug) which renders main event pointless, although you get it after 8 knives, what is the point if it is countered so easily by taking cover? Furthermore, its lack of lethality has made it useless at punishing excessive altruism, at most you get an injury for punishing a survivor for over-stepping the boundaries. No recoil is a nice change as is 115 movement speed, however being 115 has not made up for the downsides of these changes. The result of this rework has simply been turning the trickster into a basic m1 killer who uses his knives to zone, which further encourages non-interactive W key gameplay.
Changes I would suggest is to buff Trickster's throw rate back to its PTB number of 4 blades a second, to keep up with the need for 8 blades to injure survivors. Secondly, I would like to see main event's lethality bumped up in return for it being a less common occurrence. I think main event occurring every 12-15 blades with a spike in its throw rate and duration would make it a more punishing special ability whilst also keeping it in check, I do not see the need for main event being available for every chase, loop design is inherently against the design of main event by nature, make it a punishing tool against excessive altruism. Lastly, I believe the laceration decay timer could be looked at, or possibly alter the numbers of Ripper Brace to an increase of 5 seconds from 3 seconds, to make it feel more impactful if you aren't willing to touch the laceration decay base-kit.
I do appreciate your attempts to improve Trickster, notably for console players. However, these changes have severely missed the mark. In his current state, I do not feel any incentive to play Trickster, as his core mechanics feel ruptured and altered in a manner which I find sluggish and unfun to play.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. <3
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What is there to say?
I didn't like to play him much before.
No I don't want to touch it at all.
Mission accomplished I guess?
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