The Onryo Feedback

The only feedback I could come up with is that Dr. Nagao works in BHVR and want to throw Sadako in the well as quickly as possible.

I agree with your post, but just to be clear on the safe side, we were never able, or had the ability to see how many stacks of survivor has clearly like the survivor can on their hud.

well, I do think it would be incredibly useful, it was never a thing. The killer should be able to have more Intel about their power, though in my humble opinion. I know they do this to help prevent tunneling but if you’re going to tunnel you’re gonna tunnel that’s not gonna stop it.

🤣🤣🤣 I’m dead lol

oh wow im totally mixing up when I verse Sadako with when I play as Sadako. My bad!

the fact that i didnt get anyone to 7 stacks in my games today has me buggin lmao

I actually went against a Sadako recently and found out how crazy it is you can run around and shut off TVs the entire time with a tape, get rid of your stacks, and repeat. I lost the match because 2 other survivors were trying to bully her with flashlights, getting slugged and wasted all the pallets instead of doing generators. It's still kinda crazy I alone can keep most TVs off if I'm uninterrupted and even if I am, I take a hit and go directly to my target TV and cleanse 4 stacks. I can't even blame her for slugging at that point, and she at least hooked when survivors weren't trying to blind.

Something else crazy about all this? I'm recently being namedropped in the Steam Discussions as some kind of killer defender and want 'all killers to be overpowered' including Blight and Billy for saying to take tapes during the 2.0 Sadako at the time and trying to help explain how to mitigate her, and asking why survivors still don't do it now despite how simpler it is. Had to create a support ticket because I asked if he was trolling and the response got deleted while his namedrop is still up.

No worries :)

I don’t believe she needs to be more lethal on Chase, it’s only her power that needs to be stronger. If they buffer and chase, then they have to weaken her power, besides not every killer has to be excellent at Chase.

I personally enjoy using her power strategically, I definitely don’t want her converted more than what she already has been, this has already been a disaster. :)

My feedback remains same as this thread: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/403099/sadako-suggested-changes-my-version-of-onryo

The summary of the thread is following:

1) Her chase is too weak and has not been improved enough. 1.0 ->1.2 invisibility duration is not sufficient chase improvement.

2) Sadako's gameplay should be more centralized on interrupting tapes and ambushing survivors with tapes. The current version is lacks killer interactivity.

3) The mori feels unrewarding and undeserved in the current version of Sadako.

they already did weaken her power. her previous iteration was her condemn being stronger. rework removed that, so now she needs new strengths.

I’m talking about her Original iteration. Sadako 2.0 wasn’t the OG. Her weak chase power is okay as long as her actual power condemn has threat level.

It never needed to be this complicated. Take sadako 1.0 make condemn more threatening, make it so survivors can’t cleanse in her face. The end.

The devs were only ever trying to boost her condemn threat level.

The question is will the devs bother to read any of this and address her issues. I want to be optimistic but their history has left me with very little hope.

Remove the cooldown. 99% of the purpose of teleporting is to apply Condemned, so this change basically just brought back the old cooldown that NOBODY liked and is the reason she got this change in the first place. Survivors can shut off TVs anyway with miniscule consequence, so a cooldown isn't necessary. If Onryo is spamming teleports, just shut off the TV next to your gen and continue working on it. Once your gen's done put it away and shut off any TVs on your way to the target one. Simple.

Current Onryo has TOO MUCH counterplay that the Killer can't punish. A Survivor can turn off multiple TVs and even if they're caught and hooked, 2 locked in stacks is negligible and once they're unhooked they can just remove the rest. Essentially, Survivors can stop her from using her Power and can't be punished for it. The fact they can insert tapes in your face just adds salt to the wound.

I do think locked-in stacks should have a cap in some capacity, but 2 stacks is too low. 3 or 4 is a solid number.

title, I have really nothing else to say because its pretty self explanatory... sadako has nothing. tapes useless because there is no consequence for the survivor holding them, no benefit for you at all. teleport useless, tv will always be off because survivor will always take tape because there is no consequence for doing that, and teleport animation still takes forever. stealth useless because lullaby. phasing useless because it is too short and survivors dont fall for it. condemn useless because of how hard it is to build and how piss easy it is to remove. ive had 5 survivors remove their tape right in front of me because the animation takes one second... who's decision was that? who decided that its fun, interesting gameplay for the killer to watch their progress be removed in 1 second? oh and ur mouse 1 killer with 0 chase potential. I think we did a pretty good job so far

Yeah I’ve not really been having any fun playing her current iteration. She’s just kind of clunky and unappealing.

Everything she has is mediocre. Her stealth isn’t good. Her slowdown is easily countered. Her chase power is gimmicky etc.

I'm not quite sure you know what you're doing here.

So, after playing this version of Sadako for a good bit, I will say she's not as bad as I thought she would be. Condemn lock, although a heavy nerf, wasn't as bad as i thought it would be, it feels like it doesn't matter all too much, but i think that might be because of how safe cursed tapes are to take. There's no downside to taking them, and with the 1 second time to insert a tape, its also safe for survivors to cleanse stacks right in front of you. And honestly, I'm alright with that change to tapes. Condemn is strong. If you put that time into going to your TV mid match, you deserve to cleanse some stacks.

My problem is that if stacks are easy to cleanse, then there shouldn't be a limit on condemn lock. A survivor has many things in their favor, if they get to high condemn and it's locked in, that's a mistake on their part, and it should be punishable by Sadako. Condemn lock hardly comes into play when tunneling is involved because if a survivor is being tunneled, the amount of stacks they have locked in is irrelevant. When a survivor is hooked, they lose their tape, so it's not like they can lose stacks for condemn lock to be relevant. In my opinion, remove the condemn lock limit and let survivors keep their tapes when being hooked. That way, if they're being tunneled via condemn, they can do something about it. Condemn lock does nothing to combat Sadako's condemn tunneling. Give condemn lock a bit of time before it locks in so that a survivor can make it to their TV if they were downed close enough to it, or give survivors condemn immunity for a period after being unhooked to prevent tunneling via condemn but still remove the tape. They could be immune to condemn until they perform a conspicuous action or are fully healed or after X seconds, whichever comes first.

My gripe with cursed tapes, however, is that they don't feel cursed. They don't carry any of the thematic weight they do in the source material. In game, their sole use is to counter Sadako's power. They don't even help spread the curse, unless you run one specific addon. With how safe it is to do tapes, i feel like there should be some sort of penalty they inflict. Not slowdown of course, but a little something to make a survivor think at least a little before taking a tape. I agree, it should be easy to do tapes and a survivor should be rewarded for positioning themselves good enough to cleanse themselves of condemn. However, with spreading condemn being weakened and condemn spreading less with tapes being the safest they've ever been, there needs to be something to make cursed tapes feel cursed and help spread condemn in some way, whether direct or indirect. Personally, I love the idea of tapes negating bonuses. Haste, endurance. gen and healing speed increases, gone. Or, even just reducing bonuses by 50%, something along those lines. Maybe they can reveal a survivor's aura intermittently while being held. If we wanna get crazy, have them inflict hindered while in chase. If tapes are gonna be easy to do, there needs to be some downside to them.

And a very personal thing I'd like for Sadako, making reiko's watch and old newspaper basekit. Sadako has the weakest chase of any killer. And i know it's because she has the threat of inexorable stare and mix of map pressure and slowdown her chase can't be strong. However, with doing TVs being as safe and easy as ever and the slowdown from it generally being weak, I think she needs some chase power. The current base numbers of Sadako's invisibility aren't enough to be viably used in chase. In my experience, which is many, many, hours using the addon combo, reiko's watch and old newspaper give a good and fair duration of invisibility that can be used in chase and to sneak up. Pure untrackable invisibility is good, but is ultimately a mindgame, one that survivors can adapt to when used in chase by winning the mindgame, or holding W. And for outside of chase when used to sneak up, with good enough game sense and her ambient noises, a player can still know when and where Sadako is approaching from and act accordingly. I will say that chasing while demanifested so that bloodlust can be built is good. Considering Sadako's chase ability, even with reiko's watch and old newspaper to extend invisibility, bloodlust kicking in when it needs to is nice.

As for condemn itself, i feel like it is just a bit too weak. While being able to teleport at will again does feel amazing, the condemn power timer doesn't feel as near as good. It has the psychological effect of wanting to use a projection on cooldown. It basically takes away some of the agency from the player by saying, "hey, use your power now, or be inefficient." It's not a good feeling for the Sadako player. And even if during the PTB a player could chain some teleports before going to the TV they really wanted to get to, so what? Survivors can counter that by turning off the TV Sadako is ultimately targeting. There's little downside to doing so. And even if there was a downside, such as negating penalties, and even if her chase was better via better invis, she still wouldn't be overpowered or as difficult to counter as sadako 2.0. Survivors have to be within range of a powered TV, and if they're holding a tape, can power it down in exchange for a stack of it isn't the highlighted TV. That 1 stack gained will likely prevent many more stacks being gained, preventing multiple stack occuring on yourself and any nearby teammates on.

On a minor, related note, TV spawns. Sadako does well on indoor maps due to most being multiple floors that condemn can spread through, making taking tapes to prevent getting condemn slightly harder. And with multiple floors and typical smaller perimeter, a breather effective percentage of the map has area in which condemn can spread. However, Sadako will have a less easier time spreading condemn on bigger maps due to a lower percentage of the map being an area where condemn can spread. Gens are more spread out, so TVs are too, and with more area, TVs are much less like to be close to one another. And uniquely, the swamp maps can have really funky TV spawns. Tvs never spawn at the main building, resulting in their associated TV usually spawning in a way that they wont inflict condemn on a survivor on that generator. However, it can also have some really close TVs, usually in the center of the map. Anyone running though that are is guaranteed to get a stack unless multiple survivors take a tape or return a tape to the 2-3 tvs in the area. Currently, the 10 second condemn cooldown keeps that in check so a person running though doesn't gain 3 stacks in the span of like, 7 seconds or something while in chase. Regardless, this is uniquely a swamp problem, I'm guessing because TVs cant spawn on slopes, and can be addressed accordingly. And regardless of swamp, it's nice that Sadako is stronger and some maps and weaker on others. That goes for any killer though.

I know I did a fair bit of like, complaining, but ultimately, as a Sadako main, I'm happier with this more healthier state of her. She might be weak, but she's skillful again. And now that she's back to being something more skillful to play, I hope she can be adjusted to be more viable, even just slightly so. Regardless, I hope this feedback proves useful, and thanks for giving our favorite Onryō and her fans some attention!

Listen up. I played 3 days of PTB I plyed for around 4 to 5 games a day. No Killer games because I couldnt be bothered to wait 20 Minutes for one Game. Not once... Not a single time did i queue into an Onryo. She was free for PTB and i might have just been unlucky or very few people bothered to try her.

Now from what I heard she was actually really nice/improved ... (improved does not mean overpowered or unbalanced) to play as or against. Now I also read lots of comments saying that after the nerf she is just plain, weak, unfun and has to tunnel. Why make a Killer ,the few people that met her or played her described as fun, diffrent then when people actually enjoyed them.

I think that up to 3 condemned stacks should stick after a hook. Every Killer has their own counterplay and survivours have to adapt to the killer. If you dont cleanse your condemned you are not allowed to cry over it sticking. 2 (as pointed out by others) is a little to little. And encourages tunneling

Someone said in a diffrent post that condemned should be applied by proximity to Tv I agree that would make the condemning easier and more risky for survivours. I belive it was along the lines of 3 meters proximity gives two stacks 3 to 16 gives one stack and 16 to 24 gives half a stack. That would mean survivours also have to time when to get rid of their tape because they might just run into an onryo and get more stacks than they bargained for. As the tape retrieving and inserting speed is buffed this shouldnt make to big a problem.

But honestly why even ask for opinions Bhvr, your not gonna change anything or if you do it'll probably be in two years

A final plea against the condemned cooldown!

Hey guys! Was just doing some thinking tonight and I realized something about this version of Sadako that I find very problematic. It's a bit 'mathy' so bear with me here. I'll try to lay this out as clearly as possible:

Survivor interactions currently turn TVs off for 70 seconds. This is 10 seconds more than her first version. Keep that in mind.

Gens take 90 charges at base. I'd guess the average gen time is around 90 seconds between the push and pull of perks, but who knows. I'll assume 90 seconds here for the sake of argument.

Sadako is now limited by a 10 second cooldown between condemned stacks. Actually, because Sadako is only allowed to start her teleport at 98% charge on the power meter, the cooldown between stacks is closer to 13 seconds. Condemned is applied after the crawl animation finishes and it takes between 2 and 3 seconds to complete that animation.

Tapes have few downsides now- we've established that. But holding a tape does have one critical downside: turning off non-target TVs will inflict a stack of condemned. This can and should be the 'passive' condemned gained from holding a tape. To fully complete a gen in 90 seconds, you'd have to turn off a TV twice in that timespan- only eating one stack in the process. A fine trade!

On the PTB, if survivors did not turn off the TV twice, once the TV by their gen powered up again, they could gain as many as 4 full stacks before finishing their gen in the last 20 seconds. This is the punishment for ignoring the power of the killer and the counter. This is assuming the killer has 3 other TVs up, and somehow is able to teleport to EVERY TV other than theirs before finishing them off. This is an extreme outlier situation, and I'd say a rather skilled play from the killer if they somehow gathered that information and used it. It would also be a HUGE misplay from the survivor who ignored their kill meter slowly rising over the course of 20 seconds.

Currently, in live, in that last 20 seconds, if a survivor completes their gen and ignores the TV by their gen, they are only at risk of gaining ONE more stack. (they can't even inflict condemned twice in 20 seconds).

It's the exact same as turning the TV off. It's arbitrary. There's no risk of leaving that TV on after turning it off once.

This fact SEVERELY diminishes interaction between survivor and killer power.

In fact, (and if my math is wrong here idk sue me), you could carry one tape and complete 3 full gens while only 'passively' gaining 5 stacks in the process. HUUUUUGE nerf from Sadako 1, and combined with the decreased tape interaction time and hook lock-in nerf...

Condemned is dead in the water if survivors realize this.

And that leaves Sadako dead in the well- her chase power is minimal, that leaves her map pressure fairly inconsequential...

This 10 second condemned cooldown is a disaster for the character. PLEASE revert this, and please consider raising the curse lock-in with a hook to 3 or 4 stacks (or remove it altogether)

This exactly. Most killers, with a few exceptions, are at their strongest at release, or when they get a rework, because Survivors have yet to understand the counterplay. I'd argue that Sadako is at her weakest, weaker than even her first iteration. And as survivors adapt to her reworked power, she'll get even weaker. Against coordinated teams, she struggles greatly, and it'll only get worse for her as all survivors learn the counterplay.