Why won't BHVR let Killers see how many survivors are in a SWF in the lobby?
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Not really. They may have an excuse for themselves why they lost, but thats it.
In the end the Killer lost because they are worse than the Survivors. And they won because they were better than the Survivors. Not because of SWF or anything.
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It's amazing how much survivors like to downplay their advantages. Why are survivors always afraid to call a spade a spade?
They aren't.
SWF is literally an easy game mode.
Except it isn't. As you've so clearly pointed out, you don't do anything particularly special aside from holding M1 on generators. That indicates that there's a mismatch in skill level between your group and the killer. Either chases went on for too long, or the killer didn't defend their gens.
The more people play, the more they fall into bad habits. They rely too heavily on regression perks, or they rely too heavily on camping/slugging/tunneling for pressure.
Is SWF truly the big bad boogeyman, or is it just that killers perceive them as the big bad boogeyman because they can't admit they might not be as good as they think they are?
Is that Nurse who 4k'd a 5000 hour Nurse main, or is it just that Survivors don't play against Nurse nearly as much as they do other killers and thus aren't as good against Nurse as they believe they should be?
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No, because there is a distinct difference between how players perceive SWFs, and how an average SWF actually plays.
Most people hear SWFs, and the first thing that comes to mind is a 4-man bully squad. Nobody ever thinks about the duo that's running perks like Blast Mine, Botany Knowledge, Self Care, and Off the Record that's just playing the game normally.
Nobody, not even for a second, considers that a SWF could just be two people who share a brain cell and end up bodyblocking each other at killer shack, or one misses a skill check, which starts a chain reaction of missing skill checks and laughing about how dumb they are for it.
That's the reality of an average SWF. Does that sound like something that could be considered too strong? I'd find it hard to believe if you were to say yes.
You can't nerf SWFs without it being viewed as punishing people for playing with their friends, and you can't give killers the liberty to cherry pick their lobbies lest they decide they'd rather play against solos than run the risk of encountering the stereotypical SWF.
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To consistently win as a survivor, you don’t need to be a tournament player. Just follow simple rules.
1 In any unclear situation, repair the generator and always repair the generator separately.
2 If you don't repair the generator, take mans the killer.
Survivor gameplay is so simple when everyone is busy fixing the generator that most killers can't do anything about that situation. Just pure mathematics at work. You cannot defeat mathematics if you are not Nurse, which denies all the laws of existence.
I'm speaking from the perspective of having played SWF. Until 2023, I was a pure solo survivor. Survivors with friends are like the Tyranids from one universe, where you literally confront a hive mind that is capable of hitting three places at once while the fourth takes on the killer.
(Is SWF truly the big bad boogeyman, or is it just that killers perceive them as the big bad boogeyman because they can't admit they might not be as good as they think they are?)Maybe it's time to check to see which of us is right. At least for a week, introduce the solo mode that I mentioned above? The killer is guaranteed 4 solo players, but will be severely punished in case of camping, tunneling and slugging? Mayby it will be as popular as the mode with random perks.
Understand, I don’t want easy games, but fair games. I agree to significant buffs for solo survivors if they give me 4 solo players. It will also improve my games as a solo player.
You have to understand if we don't start trying to do experiments as a test. This long-term war between us and them will continue. I guarantee you. That solo survivor will continue to be a miserable role due to the ever-threat of SWF. After all, you have to pay for everything. This is the law of balance of the universe. For you to be able to play with your friends, someone has to get hurt. In this case, a solo player.
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This really isn't true. The last official stats said that at high mmr, solo players escape 39.42% of the time, while 4mans escape 48.3% of the time. Your odds of escaping in a 4man are 22% higher than as a solo player.
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You want a tool that makes people picky but say that only picky players get afflicted. You see your own contradiction? Most of the killers dont want to play vs swf, all of them are afflicted. And most survivors wont play vs half the roster for whatever reason. So you likely kill 90% of the playerbases queue times.
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Lots of people have thrown out why not let the survivors see or block the killer.
I've got one I'd like: let me see the level of addons the killer is running. I don't need the specific ones, just the levels. That way I can get out of lobbies if I think the killer has an unfair advantage.
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Yeah, not sure about this one. SWF > add-ons any day. Maybe when the add-ons start talking to each other.
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Care to explain that chart? Lower right chart shows that legion is about 45% liked/disliked.
Lower left gives him 96% - what does that mean??
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Sure, no worries!
The original context and data comes from this video:
The chart on the right simply shows the ratio of likes to dislikes for each killer. Legion for example was liked by 45% of players or 0.45.
The values on the left shows the percentage chance that at least one player on the survivor side doesn't like your killer choice. In Legion's case, you have a 96% chance that someone on survivor side doesn't want to play against Legion.
This value is directly related to the right chart, and can be simply calculated by the raising the value on the right to the power 4 (for 4 survivors) and subtracting from 1.
Chance everyone likes Legion = 0.45^4 = 0.04100625
Chance at least 1 person doesn't like Legion = 0.959
As a percentage 0.959 × 100 = 95.9%
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Ah, that makes sense… thx 4 explaining it :)
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That's what I'm talking about. Evil in its truest form that condemns killers and solo survivors to suffering.
Today I was going to play SWF. The three of us usually play as the killer or solo player most of the time. Pain and suffering are on the killer's side, where the maximum he can hope for is one or two kills.
The most important thing is that the killer will not even be able to prove when checking the lobby that we are playing SWF. Because we have different friends and platforms. This is what SWF advocates usually keep quiet about.
How can such a light regime be defended?
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You listed 4 games that you claim do have positive casual experiences, I listed one I played more extensively that the others that does not. I used to play the others, and I didn't find them that much different, but I can't truly speak to that being out of the normal for them, but Smite I can. Also, how is Smite "irrelevant" to the conversation of PvP games? Because you don't play it, or because its' maybe not as popular as some other MOBA-style games?
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I am a killer (The Pig) main, and I tell you SWF are not the powerhouse cracked SEAL BlackOps teams so many of my fellow Killer mains think they are. 99% of the time, they are friends talking on Discord not about the game, but about other stuff. Even if they are talking about the game, the most they can really say is "He's on me, Meg go for the save" which you can now easily see by the HUD that the killer is chasing someone. If you are not in chase or on a generator (again, the HUD tells you) go for the save. If everyone is on a generator, get off the generator and go for the save. It's not rocket science and the voice chat is not needed.
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in the end of the day remember this game random and survivors gameplay and killers gameplay are different they like playing two different games,but when there is 3 man or 4 man group they do have more of an advantage over the killer and killer can't do anything about it.
and a lot of time survivors in a 3 or 4 man group will lie and say they four solo when they not and I know 4 solo can act like a swf group.
but if we can know after they match were know and survivors can't lie about it.
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The long term war between us and them will always continue so long as there are sides to be chosen. Overwatch has 3 distinct roles, and people still pull Us vs Them crap all the time.
If you aren't doing anything other than sitting on gens, it means there's a skill mismatch between the swf and the killer. Either chases went on for too long, or the killer wasn't good at defending gens.
It's naïve to think that killers would go easy if they knew they weren't facing a SWF. People like to pretend that's the case, but at the end of the day it's about winning or losing. For most, winning is what's fun and losing isn't fun.
While I rarely play Killer, I did start out as a killer main and I have played a lot against SWFs. A 2k is not the best you can hope for, but you do need to be more attentive as killer. Even if I'm mid-chase, I will drop the chase if I see another survivor working on a nearby generator. Unlike solos, SWFs typically aren't pressured simply by your terror radius.
Dead by Daylight would probably benefit from a replay system where you could review your gameplay footage and see where you went wrong.
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So why is my SWF experience like a series of escapes? So you understand, my friends and I very rarely play. Next time I'll probably see them during the event. The rest of the time, everyone goes about their own business, plays solo, as an killer, or even plays another game. We're not some play-by-play tournament squad. We have some crazy ideas when someone wants to sabotage, blind, or check out the spider buff in the basement. All we say is "go save" or "the killer is on me".
But for some reason, most of the killers can’t do anything to us. It's literally like annihilation, where Legion with the regression meta is DC from the game. What's wrong with this equation?
While I rarely play Killer, I did start out as a killer main and I have played a lot against SWFs. A 2k is not the best you can hope for, but you do need to be more attentive as killer. Even if I'm mid-chase, I will drop the chase if I see another survivor working on a nearby generator. Unlike solos, SWFs typically aren't pressured simply by your terror radius.To defeat SWF you literally have to become a monster who knows no mercy. Play as if your life depended on it. Ruining the lives of many solo players in the process. In fact, it’s a terribly tedious task that not everyone can handle.
Well, the question here is rather who remains on the side of the killers in the long term. Certainly not fans of hooks, which they are diligently trying to remove from the game with various nerfs. Those people, for example, who took one or two regression metas so as not to feel obligated to ruin the life of the first survivor by tunneling.
Competitive people will remain on the side of the killer. They have long been accustomed to overcoming all the difficulties of fate. Of course, they will play on Weskers, Billys and other killers that are competitive in the current balance. And if they were injured by SWF while playing on a weaker killer (Trapper), they will tunnel on 5 generators of the first survivor.
This is literally locking yourself in a jar with spiders, which brings the most sad games.
On my own behalf, I will say that DBD has strengthened me in terms of character, but I am not the killer with whom survivors will want to play when I want to win. I'm literally what's left to play with the survivors. This will be the Doctor with a mixed or pure slug. A Wraith with a possessed build based on Play with Your Food. It’s either a game of hooks, depending on your luck, or I tunnel my obsession to death, then I make myself a new obsession. On the remaining killers, you can build a tunnel of two surviving Friends 'til the End, Alien Instinct and Nemesis, since the one who was saved from the hook will not run far. Well, and other peculiar builds.
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Because everyone's experience is different. I can tell a difference when I play with someone but we still lose quite often. Just feels better knowing it wasn't because of teammates not doing anything the entire match.
My experience as killer is also different. I very rarely find it a struggle to play against any group anymore. I also don't play for kills though which changes my experience drastically from someone who does. But I personally find it more fun and stress free.
To the topic at hand:
With all the dc and lobby dodging complaints I see these days, I wouldn't mind if they tested showing killers all the survivor information, including who is swf, and vice versa. Keep lobby dodging as it is, make dc penalties harsher after the first one, and remove the hook suicide ability.
Now they can make MMR more strict on the matchmaking. Queue times would suck but that's just the way it is. Then everyone can freely cherry pick their games. There should be no reasoning for disconnecting or leaving a game because you could see everything that was brought into the game beforehand.
This could even be the difference between a casual and ranked mode. Ranked would basically be pulling all the randomness out of the load out screen, doesn't help with maps though, unless it shows a predetermined map on the load out screen as well. It would also help with anyone who prefers matchmaking over queue times and anyone who complains about leaving games early.
Then perhaps they could just base casual mode off the emblems like it use to be. Promoting more fun play styles while still keeping brand new players separated from others. They could keep the current lobby system in place for the more horror aspect and randomness of it. Maybe even make it so people are free to dc a time or 2 even. Then start punishing for it. But give the option to rejoin a match it case it was an internet issue or server issue.
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To defeat SWF you literally have to become a monster who knows no mercy. Play as if your life depended on it. Ruining the lives of many solo players in the process. In fact, it’s a terribly tedious task that not everyone can handle.
You literally don't though. Maybe at high MMR, yes, but not everyone is striving for that.
Well, the question here is rather who remains on the side of the killers in the long term. Certainly not fans of hooks, which they are diligently trying to remove from the game with various nerfs. Those people, for example, who took one or two regression metas so as not to feel obligated to ruin the life of the first survivor by tunneling.
Except killers will run 4 regression perks and still tunnel.
When I play killer, I don't tunnel, run off-meta perks and play off-meta killers. I either walk away with a 2k, or a 4k, and I'm okay with that because it's not about how many kills you get; it's about how much fun you had.
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You literally don't though. Maybe at high MMR, yes, but not everyone is striving for that.Monsters are different. I'm all for creativity in perks, but I make up for the variety of builds with unfun tactics. Camping, tunneling and slug. I will use it to the fullest for the sake of victory.
Many people I played with would disagree with you. They literally weren't happy to play with me.
As here.
I'm ready to hit any lobby, but this will be the most not fun game for them.
Except killers will run 4 regression perks and still tunnel.That's the point. Only such players remain as killers. What do four regressive perks take. Everyone else leaves the game sooner or later. Either they play as a killer once a year or even become survivors. That's why we have a dominance of campers and tunnelers, since they are the only ones who are ready to withstand the pace of the game on a constant basis.
Well, don’t forget for the murderous side, all the fun comes down to the killing. This thinking has not been corrected over the many years of the game's existence.
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I believe that if the SWF status is displayed on the lobby screen, the match will never start. Currently, it’s somewhat possible to predict if players are in an SWF group (for example, if they are friends on Steam or have matching player names). Therefore, I would prefer to have the SWF status displayed at the end of the match.
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From a different perspective I actually wish it told killer which survivors are SWF solely cause killers treat me and the randoms I get matched with as a SWF when in reality it’s just 4 good survivors. Getting blead out just cause the killer thinks I’m in a SWF is annoying and happens far too often
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If Killers could dodge SWFs kill rates would be at 70-80% and if you played with friends you never find a game.
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Yea, I am a Pig main and I don't go out of my way to tunnel or slug or facecamp, or do any of those things you insist all killers eventually do.
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Was a general statement and not against you specifically.
Why can't i? i can choose to opt out of playing with console players, why not swfs? Im happy to wait for a game.
Asking to see what killer and what perk is just a crap argument, considering we know the benefits that being in a swf is verse solo.
I've seen plenty of flog behaviour of swfs, not to be scared of them just to find alot of them to be fools trying to abuse every bug and mechanic they can.
Lets run boilover on rpd and hide in the library, lets use some d.s bug so we can fly. All this crap.
But its bold of you to assume im scared of swfs, i just dislike their behaviour at times, and the fact they add to the unbalance of the game.
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It seems it still escapes the grasp of some people here that if killers could see SWFs in the lobby, they would opt not to play against them.
Take for instance if survivors could see who the killer is before the trial begins. How many do you think would opt out of playing against Nurse, simply because there's every possibility they'll be a 9000 hour god nurse that never misses?
We know for a fact that not everyone who plays Nurse is a 9000 hour god Nurse. Some are just playing Nurse for a daily ritual. Do those people just not deserve to play the game? Because they would either never get games or only face meta sweats, if survivors could see them prior to the commencement of the trial.
I'd argue that the majority here would say those players still deserve to be able to play the game. So then why do we assume that every SWF is a 4-man bully squad running full meta builds?
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