We kinda need a anti-stall mechanic for survivors
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Values would need to be massively improved for two survivors to have a chance. Would also recommend making it that gens can no longer regress to prevent the equally awful play style of killers holding a match hostage with three gens for a half hour even with the 8 kick limit it's awful.
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See, that's where you are wrong. A very valid way to escape is to wait for everyone to die so you can get hatch. I'm not saying eternal hide & seek is fine. I'm just saying there is no simple solution. If you give killers info in this situation that is pretty much immediate death for both remaining survivors.
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This problem has been discussed on the forum many times over the years and the devs (as far as I know) have never addressed it. Apparently it's not a priority, so I wouldn't hold your breath and expect that a solution will come anytime soon.
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I really don't think is needed
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It definitely needs to be addressed, as does slugging for a 4k. Nobody likes having their time wasted. The culprits are hatch, hiding, and the game only rewarding Kills/Escapes.
Why not just make it so either the hatch spawns (locked, you need a key to open it so you either must do gens or find a key if you want an out this way) with two players left if not all gens are complete, and then have it close after that person (it can be unlocked again though).
To address slugging for 4k, autosacrifice someone left on the ground this way the second the other person is hooked, or make the bleedout timer 2 minutes. We can stand endgame collapse being 2 minutes, I'm sure nobody will be upset about bleeding out taking 2 minutes either. Make the game based on hookstages and not sacrifices, a 3k should be worth the same as a 4k. A 2k is still a good enough effort against a strong team and it's time to reward people for TAKING that challenge and having a fair tie, both parties need to walk out with something. You can still base MMR on actual kills, but people could then pip by being less than amazing, unlike what the game currently demands from the stifling "only kills/escapes matter and pip you" system we have now.
For hiders? Permanent crows or intermittent aura reveal/noise notifs for lockers after 25 seconds not interacting with gens. You can't be rid of them. You can't hide from it. If aura hiding is a concern, Killer Instinct for free on every Killer when Survs do this. This counts for slugs, too.
Post edited by VantablackPharaoh91 on2 -
It happens when killers proxy camp hook as they all do now that the anti camp mechanic is in place. Also your suggestion does nothing against high mobility and especially range killers. Killers are faster than the survivor by design. Youre acting like what im saying is rare when I bet if you ask actual survivor players they will tell you how often this happens. No matter what you cannot reasonably deny that basekit BT does not combat tunneling because it doesn’t. I’d suggest you try playing more survivor to see how often killers simply chase down people off hook and wait out their BT. People on this forum are still championing tunneling one person out at 5 gens as their wining strategy. If basket BT was the savior you’re acting like it is, that wouldn’t be a viable strategy, yet it is.
Also the argument against your mechanic is that your only options for doing that are to demand that survivors basically go out and die if they’re in a 2v1. Let’s say that even one survivor just says “okay fine I’ll just go out and die so my teammate can have a chance at hatch” that doesn’t matter for killers who love to slug for the 4K which is very common. It’s not reasonable to expect 2 survivors left to go out and sit on gens that are easily patrolled by a killer, because they have no other options.
Post edited by CrackedShevaMain on1 -
hatch used to spawn early but locked but they removed that from the game. The solution was already there 🤣
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and it lead to: survivors 3-genned themself, killer killed one of them, three others escape because of key
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Even if it’s a rare occurrence it should be addressed still
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I think a Killer forced Endgame could be good. If you just want to end the game (with only 1 or 2 Survs left) go to an exit gate with gens remaining and 'open' the gate to instead power the gates and start endgame collapse. The gates take 4 extra seconds per gen remaining (for max 20→40 total), but NWO doesn't function. This puts the Survivors on a timer to either open the gate, or hide and die together. This also can be used with 1 Surv left, so that way you can get the extended gate timer if you risk giving the Survivor more time to find the Hatch.
The Killer would get a Rancor genpop style info on the Survivor locations when starting the EGC, AFK crows progress at double speed, and the Survivors get 4x recovery speed and can pick themselves up, but they die on hook immediately (regardless of hook state). The point is to just get someone hooked and dead, and have Hatch or Gate be available to end the match ASAP.
Now there are some flaws like Twins downing with Victor, but these edge cases can be smoothed out once we at least have a system in place (like a Victor down halves recovery speed during this forced EGC).
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I think the game should automatically end as soon as the 2nd survivor dies
If the remaining 2 survivors are not supposed to "survive", might as well just end the game
So it makes the killer objectives a 2k instead of a 4k, much easier
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It wasnt even just that it was the braindead eruption call of brine 3 gen meta that lasted almost half a year it was absolutely miserable. Killers were getting easy wins cuz they could stall out the survivors and drain them of all resources by just guarding 3 gens
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Except Theres already been many things implemented to help against unfun killer playstyles. No such thing for killers in a long long time
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Please don't remind me of the gen kick meta. My therapist says I'm making great progress, but I'm just not ready to explore those memories yet.
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well we eventually got gen regression event limit and not some suggestions from devs like "run deja vu or potential energy".
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This is not viable and only benefits killers. Pretty sure the devs would call this suggestion totally unbalanced.
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the problem is same as skull merchant holding the game hostage. The player has to equip a perk in order counter situation that they are not preparing to counter. In other words, the problem exist and occurs because the other side does not have correct tool to deal with situation. The problem is too great but also rare enough for player to not use the perk.
That is why they need fix this base-kit so this gameplay strength is not so sharp for the killer. It is one of reasons why they can't buff stealth globally in the game because if they do, it makes this game more obnoxious in end game. 30+ minutes to search for survivor is not fun.
this is why i proposed that they buff base walking speed by +30% and Crouching speed by +30% but added some detection system where survivors are alive and no significant gen progression has occurred. a small decrease to champion of light from 50→30% walking speed to accommodate said change.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on1 -
I've always said that if a survivor doesn't do at least 10% of a gen, open a chest, break a totem, unhook/ heal a survivor, or get chased by the killer within 5-10 minutes, they have crows start forming until one of said actions is completed, which then resets the timer. Nothing changes for anyone that's actively participating, and punishing those that aren't.
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Behaviour has to put in a system that stops hiding survivors. I've had this happen multiple times when the last 2 petty survivors start hiding instead of doing gens. Quite often this happens on the larger maps like red forest weirdly enough.
I think its just out of spite and pettyness when survivors start hiding and trying to get match end when servers shut down, and this shouldnt be allowed.
Like many people have said maybe implement AFK crows after 5 minutes of not doing X amount of gens or something.
Also bodyblocking survivor to a corner shouldn't be a thing. Incase this happens same thing should happen that after X minutes of bodyblocking the survivor can go through the killer.
I am also in favor of making bleedout timer 2 minutes instead of 4. Nobody likes a slugging killer if its done on purpose and not even trying to hook anyone.
Post edited by Hannacia on2 -
The match is already a draw or won by Killers in a 2v1. This just ends the match in a timely manner. One of the Survivors can still juice on one side of the map while the other Surv opens the gate on the other, for them both to escape. Heck, it is even more possible if people quit on hook, because there would be more pallets to use. I mean it isn't like I gave the Killer instadowns too.
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doesn’t matter. You’d still be calling the match at a 2v1, which gives survivors even less incentive to commit to playing out the matches. There’s already an epidemic of people giving up on hooks in matches they feel are lost only a few minutes in. I doubt the devs wanna make that problem worse.
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I'm not sure I understand your point here. You would have more of an incentive as Survivor to actually take chase in the hopes that the other player opens a gate, since they would die if you juiced the Killer for too long.
IMO the game is essentially won by Killer at 1 kill (with more than 1 gen), that's why I usually delay that until my 9th hook. People quitting at 5 gens already gives them no chance of victory, this would give the chance of 1 or 2 getting out, based on how much better or worse you are in comparison to the Killer (and how aware your soloq teammate is).
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According to the devs and to the game, the match is not over until all Survivors are dead or out of the gates/hatch. Period.
There is no other criteria for what the end of a match is, nor should there be.
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Actually you can report them, because this is considered holding the game hostage.
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If 2 Survivors are alive just hiding and not doing any objective for a certain amount of time they should be revealed.. either by Aura or Killer Instinct or both so hiding for that long should be punished.
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Find a way to delete slugging for the 4k is the only way this might be feasible. Like, completely eliminate slugging at 2 survivors left, and even then it's likely to be abusable.
Because in a "slug for the 4k" situation, you have two survivors, one slugged, and at least one gen left. The last survivor is under no obligation to just give up, which is what touching a gen would do in that situation.
So you have 4 minutes to bleed out the other survivor, and presumably a couple minutes to find hatch. Even then, there's a chance at the door during EGC. So, this mechanic that reveals survivors wouldn't be able to work for at least 8 or 9 minutes, since all of that hiding is normal gameplay.
Otherwise you may as well just make the game end in a 4k when the 3rd survivor dies. Which I think is really what some people actually want.
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Not playing the game for longer period shouldn't be possible, simple as that
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I mean I knew that was a possibility that's why I said after 5 minutes since that's a minute over the survivor slug timer. As long as the survivor has touched a gen around the time the last survivor was down and went to stealth. They'd be fine. You also could just disable this mechanic if a survivor is slugged. So it can only affect 2 survivors holding the game hostage.
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I dont believe this post at all sorry. NO ONE complained about this at all until that one twitter user had a problem with it now all of a sudden EVERYONE is claiming the same thing happens to them like…
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Ironically if you look at when I posted this it was sure around the same time but I had not known about this person. It's moreso a matter of funny timing on my end lol. I dont know if people saw the survivors in their video do it and decided to replicate it which is why i ran into 2 hiders on red forest. But i have no connection to their scenario (though i cannot speak for the survivors i faced). Now that their thing has gotten traction I expected someone to bring it up in this forum post. Eitherway both sides were holding the game hostage in that scenario. Bhvr cannot pick sides there. Also I've been playing since 2017. Forum member since 2019. I've seen this for YEARS. Because BHVR refuses to address it with a mechanic. I've seen it happen to streamers. Had it happen to myself. Ect. For proof look at the timing and it's me asking a actual dev. All the way back in 2020.
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The survivors didn't hold anything hostage, they had literally nothing to do with no objective. The problem isn't survivors needing to be punished for not just allowing the killer to kill them, they need to find a way to make survivors able to win. Genuinely there was no point, hard camping a 4 gen as spirit on midwich left the final two with no options but to hide and hope the other died it all boils down to "These survivors should've let me kill them!"
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The devs have repeated time and time again if the survivors aren't progressing the objective (which they still can do gens they just choose not to so saying theres no objective to be done is untruthful) and just hide and refuse to touch them. They are infact hostage holding. Because the games not progressing. The killer can't chase them. And they refuse to progress gens.
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Ye I know all too well the 2 v 1 stand off, personally I think the game should have some sort of mechanic in place. What the solution is I honestly don't know, crows or even basekit whispers would be something. Yes I know they are already perks but it doesn't stop survivors getting basekit BT even tho that's already a perk. Whispers isn't too op because it only tells the killer there is a survivor within a certain radius, still have to track them down and go through the rigmarole of loops to down them. And survivors shouldn't really complain about it because if they are in that situation they have already lost and acknowledged they can't do the main objective (gens) in order to escape. So match over, get it done asap to move on. it's not like slugging where the player gets to move on after 4min (same time limit as egc if someone is downed or hooked I believe?), the 2 v 1 situation can effectively go on until server time ends.
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The killer can go search for them. There is no objective for them to do because if they even touch a gen Spirit will just kick it and force them off. So atp Spirit would be holding the game hostage if we wanna get into the nitty gritty, not to mention the fact that trying to do a gen is guaranteed death which is the problem. There is literally NOTHING they can do but wait for the other to die which is what they did
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The devs have also directly stated that if the killer is just holding a 3 gen, and not making any attempt to down or hook survivors for an extended time that the killer is holding the game hostage.
This same situation came up during the 3 gen and cobruption meta and they again said the same thing.
Since you like links directly to the dev statements on this, here you go:
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Didn't hatch deal with this situation prior to its nerf?
Now that's gone, survivors can only hope the other tm is found b4 them.
I don't think either side is happy about this current scenario.
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Yet they haven't implemented hard measures to enforce this. Either because they are the Bhvr we like to talk condescendingly about or maybe because they know this is actually kind of a dumb rule in the current state.
What would this progress look like? Do gens until being chased off then try to loop on a dry map? - Death sentence. Do 5-10% on a gen, stealth away and rotate - Killer kicks your gen ⇒ 0% progress ⇒ game lasts until server time out.
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Problem is on your example I didn't kick gens for the 30+ minutes and refuse to chase. I'd certainly chase if I found them. But they were hiding in corners and lockers. Refusing to do their end of the objective. I was looking. I had abandoned the gens like past the 10 minute mark. Once it becomes obvious what they are doing it becomes bannable. For example I've reported on this before. I thought I made the stance quite clear. I acknowledge the killer can do it to. But that's not the topic of this discussion. It's about giving survivors something that removes this as a possibility. Whether it be when down to the final two they get a gen speed boost but they also have their aura frequently revealed. So both sides can actually progress. Idm. This has been a problem for Years and still has not been addressed with a mechanic.
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Doesn't make it not bannable. They have to eventually progress the objective. From what I have from my own reports on the manner and a dev comment. This is not on the killer finding them because they have the objective to do the gens and escape. And like I said to another person. The mechanic doesn't have to be a guarantee death to the survivors. It could be something like gen speed boost with frequent killer instinct. So both sides can actually progress.
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They could implement a time limit for these situations - if there is no gen activity for X minutes (10? 15?) the killer can repair the gens and open the gate.
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That’s exactly what this post boils down to. Which is why all of the suggestions in here boil down to revealing the survivors to the killers so they can easily find and kill them both. Survivors won’t just come out and give me my 4K? Show me where they are so I can easily go get them.
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Why should the survivors be entitled for a win after going against a stronger opponent and technically losing if you are too scared to even try finishing a gen at that point ?
If survivors 3 gen themselfs thats in most cases on them. Sure sometimes killer can push it on the survivors, but it's quite easy to tell when killer is trying to 3 gen you.
No survivor should be allowed to rat out in corners and lockers just because they might die going on a gen. Killers playtime is precious too. Not all want to be stuck 1 hour in a match and no one should be forced to take DC penalty for ratty survivors. "Just finding them" isn't that easy eather especially in bigger maps.
Just go do the gen and die trying, does it really matter if you die and go to the next? Ive been in situations as a survivor where theres 2 survivors left and things didn't look good but i never ratted in corners for a hatch.
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oh but its reasonable to expect killers to not proxy camp? and this is the double standard in this community that i hate so mutch.
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For both? no, not at all as the one that doesnt get chased gets to wait for hatch OR do the gens, either way its not fair killers have no mechanic in place for these situations. But ofc in this here community we dont care once its a killer problem, however when its a survivor problem then we can make basekit mechanics to make it easyer for them, despite the fact that killers too could argue how they are more likely in a loosing position with these mechanics as they were without them.
Making UNSAFE hook rescues used to be punished and a bad play, now you can easyly rescue by your own and dont need 2 people for that. And sabo plays are guaranteed now, you can sabo in between the killers little swipe animation while they are holding a survivor and still get away. Sabo plays used to be risky, now its just easy af.
But god forbid killers have something like that, in a situation where they have won alredy anyway. When 2 survs are left and more than 1 gen is still needed completion.
The double standards never cease to shock me…1 -
2vs1 needs to be probably reworked that situation is just lose/lose for survivors and hiding is only way to stay alive. Can't expect survivors to just give themself to killer. But I would after 5 minutes not touching gens give killer short aura reading on one of the survivors.
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I’m not sure if 4 years later Peanits or any dev is saying this, but what I do know is that they’re extremely evasive when asked if, in a situation where multiple gens are left incomplete and two survivors remain, is it against the rules to play for hatch. They don’t say: Survivors should do risky things that expose themselves or that survivors must engage the killer. I know for sure they don’t ban or punish survivors in the scenario I described above, even if they don’t touch any gens at all. I’ve reported people for it and received the generic ‘we will take action’ message in response and nothing came of it.
As for interacting with gens, all you need to do is touch a gen to facilitate this. You don’t have to do much; just touch it and the game will register that it has been interacted with even if it isn’t making a lot of noise or showing any meaningful progress.
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Anti-facecamp was a waste of time. For one thing face camping was pretty rare, and more people complained about proxy camping than face camping because proxy camping is the more efficient play. If they devs really wanted to “hurt” face camping, they should have considerably raised repair speeds when the killer was within X meters of a hooked survivor because guess what? If a killer is face camping a hooked survivor and they unhook themselves, what will the killer do next? If you guessed down them 8 seconds later you’d be right. And this brings me to your final point: Anti-tunneling as in the baseline BT? Doesn’t work. Killers tunnel through the 8 seconds. Easily.
Anti-3 gen actually works better for killers due to the regression event change they made on PTB. I’ve never gotten to maximum allowable regression events (#########? Who does?) and have never seen any other killer—including those holding 3-gens—do so either. What I have seen are the basekit buffs to damage-based gen regression this system has brought used quite efficiently. Ironically that’s no where in your comment.
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Killers have also received basekit changes; far more than survivors, in fact. Are you new here?
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I totally agree that there should be some sort of mechanic that stops the whole "survivors hiding and not doing gens" scenario but I always hate when people use anti-tunnel as an argument for basically anything.
People always seem to forget that before basekit BT, killers could fairly reliably re-down survivors before they even regained control of their character. It's an absolute no brainer that never should have been a thing and bringing it up as an argument feels off base at best
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This is exactly what I said. Most of us remember when you got insta downed off hook while still in the unhook animation, effectively taking away any chance for you to play the match.
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