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Looking Back At Patch 6.1.0 ~ Was The "Massive Meta Shake-Up" A Disaster?
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Ah. You felt.
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On the killer side i'd like to see the gen kick perks be buffed back up. With the 3-gen system in place those perks would be far less oppressive today than they were back then.
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the original perk was obsession perk that had same functionality of blocking gen for 45 second after letting go. Look i know your survivor bias and your trying correct me but please stop. The version your talking about is nerfed version post 6.1.
Actually, you're correct, it was 30 seconds in 6.1.2, and it was 45 before that, though it also lost the obsession tag in 5.5. That does mean the killer now has 20 seconds instead of 5 to get two survivors off two separate gens to get equal value to what the new perk is always going to offer.
my point is that killer changes were quality of life changes.
Reducing chase time to that extent is not a 'quality of life' change, that is a straight up balance change. You can't accuse me of bias and then turn around and claim that getting two stacks of STBFL as a basekit is 'QoL' when it serves to make chases much shorter.
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Game became a ######### bore after that patch, so yeah.
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Some. Eruption shouldn't double dip the charges and Surge might need a numbers bump as it eats charges too.
Otherwise regression is in a good place overall. DMS+PR might be a tiny bit too good still and Grim probably needs a rework as it's a snowball machine.
Game was way worse before.
Yes, we need more perk variety but it was so much worse before.
Killer no longer felt like a sandbag for SWFs and survivor felt a bit less binary between 'we escaped with 2 hooks' and 'we got murdered by a Nurse at 5gens' which was very much what it was like before.
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It's kind of hard for me to articulate exactly how I feel regarding this topic. I much prefer how the game currently works over pre 6.1 DBD, but the casual and more fun natured vibe people approached the game with was much more easygoing than it is now.
I still have plenty of fun with the game, don't get me wrong, it just feels like some people act as if BHVR is forcing them to play 3 hours a day every day and then project that burnout they get from playing on others.
Post edited by ArkInk on2 -
Dead Hard "for distance" was finally obliterated so I personally think it's the best update ever until the recent Myers changes.
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Yeah, "disaster" is a fitting term. In general, the Shake Up was not really a Shake Up. I dont consider it a Shake Up if the Meta on Killer Side goes from 3-4 Slowdowns to 3-4 Slowdowns, just different ones.
Then there were unneeded Nerfs on both sides, some of them at least partially reverted. Iron Will-Nerf was not needed at all, especially not the double nerf. They reverted one part, to make the Perk useable again, because anything below 100% Noise Reduction might as well be 0 when you have to hope to play against a Killer who uses Headphones.
Ruin was also not needed. Yes, Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer was oppressive, even with nerfed Undying. But the main culprit was Tinkerer and this got nerfed. Nothing more needed to be done.
DS was another pointless Nerf. The only thing people asked for was deactivating in Endgame (which I can understand, but personally disagree with), but nobody asked for it to be butchered to 3 seconds. And even now it is still weak, and it would be still weak with 5 seconds, since 5 seconds back then are not 5 seconds nowadays.
Self Care was another nonsense Nerf. The Perk was not efficient before and was even worse afterwards. For some reason people still play it, but the Nerf was not needed. I get that it had a high useage (which should never be the main reason for a Nerf), but as far as I know this was only on the Asia Servers. And the main reason why people run Self Care is because they dont want to or simply cannot rely on their teammates. And making it harder for those players is just wrong.
And those were just Meta-Perks. Some niche perks were also just butchered, Calm Spirit, Pharmacy and Botany Knowledge for example. And probably many more, because for some reason the Devs thought that getting a Medkit at the start of the Trial would be too good or being silent while doing Side Objectives would warrant a downside.
Meanwhile we got probably the worst Slowdown-Meta ever with the Eruption-Meta, where you basically had to try to lose as Killer and which was far worse than the Regression-Meta before.
So yeah, overall it was a big failure. I think the idea of big Perk changes is great, but they should just focus on making weak Perks stronger to create more variety and if they want to nerf popular Perks, those should be MINOR Nerfs. E.g. I think the most recent Nerfs to Slowdown-Perks was quite nice, they are still really strong and are still used, but they are weaker. This is a good way to balance things. Not to destroy the Perks.
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Yes, it was a disaster. Perks were nerfed to the point that they were no longer being used. That’s not good. It would’ve been healthier for the game to buff unpopular perks to the level of Meta perks. That would’ve created variety. Take Territorial Imperative for example, it’s probably the least used perk in the game let alone on killer. Instead of nerfing say a gen defense perk, buff TI to a level where Killers will want to play with it and get value from it. What bothered me most were changes to some of my favorite perks that weren’t even Meta, nor did players complain about (Dark Sense was one of them).
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Eh, some of this is right, most of this is well off the mark.
- IW is just a problem perk and needs a rework. It's the reason I just cannot play Spirit anymore.
- Ruin was absolutely needed. It got overnerfed, sure - but this thing was a nightmare if it spawned in a weird spot.
- DS was a dumb nerf, partially reverted. 5 seconds back then…are the exact same as now. What? Time doesn't work like that.
- Self care was absolutely overnerfed.
It took the game into a few weird spaces but I think we're now in a decent spot - mostly. Slugging is getting a look, I really hope the devs finally fix the tricks to avoid AFK crows and do something about hiders.
On the other hand, the way they handled Skull Merchant may be one of the pettiest, most meanspirited things the devs have ever done and I'm still pretty annoyed about it, especially with Mandy basically gloating about it on a stream.
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No, 5 seconds nowadays are not the same as back then. Back then Killers were weaker, maps were more survivor-sided. 5 seconds were more valuable a few years ago.
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Wouldn't that make 5 seconds more valuable now for survivors?
I know that I find DS creates a hell of a lot of space still. Very rarely do I get caught after using it unless I make a mistake or they're on Blight or Nurse.
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the cognitive bias where tinkerer, a non-gen defence perk that grants information+some stealth needs nerfs while ruin does not need nerf yet was one of they key slowdown perks in which your post ALSO complains about 3-4 slowdowns.
tinkerer absolute did not need nerfs. if the goal is to move killer away from gen defence, virtually every non-gen defence perk needs to be buffed and killer need more base-kit gen defence buffs. 5% regression doesn't on gen-kicks doesn't cut it.
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Tinkerer did need a Nerf. Sorry, it removed any gamesense needed if you get a notification whenever a Gen is at high progress, just to go there and let it reset with Ruin.
Tinkerer was the problem with Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer. And not Ruin itself. If you think otherwise, you are simply wrong.
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It was more valuable before because hook spawn logic was worse so survivors had to be slugged else the killer risked them wriggling free. Paired with Unbreakable, as DS often was back then, it put killers in losing situations because when those survivors got up they also had better loops as maps were much more forgiving for survivors. Maps are worse for survivors now, more hooks spawn and they spawn closer together, and most killers aren’t really affected by a 2.5 second stun now as they have strong catch up mechanics—paired with the other features I’ve mentioned. DS itself is less valuable because so much that helped bring it value before has changed (maps, killer mobility, hook spawning, etc). That was Aven’s point.
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IMO the biggest failure of the 6.1.0 "meta shakeup" patch went beyond just the perks. This community tends to refer to "meta" as just the perks, items, and add-ons, which is fair enough. I think the patch had some good things (DH for distance removed, DS disabled in end game, "follow the notification" of tinkerer gone, as some examples).
The 6.1.0 patch still has perk, item, and add-on issues, but the real failure imo was changing the way the game was played by the entire community.
Killers largely stopped playing PVP and focused on generators. Gen kick meta for 8 months and 3 gen meta for a full year broke how people think and interact with the game entirely, even long after they were fixed. Before 6.1, the match focused on map pressure and chases. Survivors needed to (and had the time to) break all 5 totems on the map to "counter" noed.
But that changed to territory control over generators entirely due to the 6.1.0 patch. Killers would drop chase to go make sure every gen had Eruption applied to it. Survivors learned that the only way to break these new strategies was to finish gens before the killer could lock down 3 together at the start.
And this mentality over territory still persists today, even after numerous changes to maps, pallets, tile strength, nearly every survivor perk that has more than one post about it getting nerfed... The only thing some people still focus on is "just give back hostage level regression again". I've argued with people in the past week that somehow regression nerfs from 6-12 months ago are the "reason they're just slugging everyone now".
And why not? Binding every key to "damage generator" and slamming your face on the keyboard is actually easier than chasing a player opponent.
I think the 6.1.0 patch broke player mentality in an irreversible way. The players who want to play "gen kick simulator" want it back and don't actually want a PVP game (or, at least not a PVP game where the opponent has any autonomy over the outcome).
That, imo, is the true "meta failure" of 6.1.0.
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Yes and no. A big part involved a shift from Ruin to other perks.
Kick meta revolved around Eruption. CoB and Overcharge were purely along for the ride.
I saw a lot of PR back then too.
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Yeah, the game got markedly less enjoyable and far more competitive as a result.
Game went from being reasonably balanced to Killer-sided quick lol
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I mean, there are several reasons for this shift, sure. But almost every single one of them is in patch 6.1.
Ruin nerf, tinkerer nerf, and BBQ BP changes all contributed to killers not applying as much map pressure.
Pain res and pop were also hard meta before the patch and those were both adjusted in that patch as well.
And, like you said, Eruption and overcharge were buffed. Eruption actually got triple buffed in short succession: increased chunk regression on down and increased incapacitation in 6.1, and then shortly later was buffed again to apply incapacitation before the regression, which really kicked off the gen kick meta.
But, with the exception of the third Eruption buff, all of that, and the focus change to generators over chases, is entirely due to the 6.1 patch.
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New player experience became more and more so worse, second chance meta the main solution to the games issues was targeted and the only thing put in its place was baseline borrowed time out of the 4 perks, gens got longer, chases got made shorter. killers kept getting buffed and buffed and buffed, Gen rushing perks got nerfed yet new problematic ones got made so the killer new player experience also got worse.
6.1.0 is awful, the dedicated servers are awful (Looking at the Reddit AMA where the network engineer was like I DONT SEE AN ISSUE)
Dead hard for distance is no different to dramaturgy for distance lmfao0 -
Ruin and Tink were QQ'd about ENDLESSLY on the forums. So sure, but this is sort of a hell of survivors' own making.
PR was still a monster of a perk. Pop, if I remember was really crap then it was buffed, then nerfed again.
Eruption was the problem.
OC wasn't even slightly OP and was thus a dumb nerf as it's now mostly worse than an empty slot.
COB was another dumb nerf but it's merely crap now.
Keep in mind that a lot of killers didn't use Ruin before the patch (I never did, it was too volatile) and instead ran PR+DMS. Post patch, I saw some kickers but still a lot of PR. I don't think it changed all that much, outside of Eruption being a horrible perk to go up against. Kicky meta also grew heavily out of NTH and the later PR nerfs, alongside Pop being good again.
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the whole reason why people were running tinkerer was hex:ruin. the nerf just killed a non-gen defence perk.
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