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Killer behaviour is appalling during events
Comments
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It's pretty appalling that most of you are trying to excuse being rude to people with "that's how the game is played"
Sorry you all don't care about fun and just want to make others miserable to fulfill your win streaks. I mostly play killer, have for years and never had to hijack the game and prevent others from playing just for my own gain. Y'all are sad.15 -
Thank you! I'm on console so I will try
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Almost every game that's played with other people is a PVP game. And yes, we should all be considerate when we interact with other humans. Just because a game is played on the internet with people we don't know doesn't remove the fact that other real people are involved.
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If you die at 5 gens then the team messed up and the killer deserves his win.
Getting personal or getting your feelings hurt over a video game is not healthy.
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I've had the same, I've actually taken a break, I'm sick of it being a 5v1 situation 😫
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The only 5v1 situation I find myself in is in between matches.
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I also didn't say someone's getting taken out at five gens. I simply said 'early'. That could reasonably be interpreted as anything in the first half of the game. 3, 4, or 5 gens would be reasonable interpretations. But it's fair that five gens left is within that range, and I totally agree that the survivors have messed up if someone is out with five gens left. But a 3v1 at 3 or 4 gens should be easily winnable by the killer.
Also, while my feelings don't generally get hurt over playing video games, it's certainly reasonable for someone to be frustrated when they're treated poorly in any scenario. It's just like with any other activity done with other people; there's no reason to do something that ruins someone else's experience without provocation. Games on the internet are still interactions with other people. If we suggest that tunneling early in a match is an intended game mechanic, that suggests that BHVR intends for some players to have a relatively bad experience through no fault of their own. That is, the game would then be intentionally designed to force some players to have a bad experience regardless of how well they play. That would be a design issue, and should be addressed so that we don't have people playing a game where they expect to have pointless matches on a regular basis.
Tunneling prevents the targeted player from doing anything other than getting chased and eliminated for the entire match. They don't get to do any other part of the game, which is a situation most people don't enjoy. That's different than a person losing at a game where they get to do all the parts of the game. The idea that someone can force that to happen is a problem.
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I'm not even reading that. You're moving the goalpost every one of your posts.
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Almost every game played against another person is a PVP game. Any interaction with other people should involve caring about the experience of the others involved to an extent that the others are not unreasonably kept from enjoying their experience due to the actions of one person.
It doesn't matter what the objective of the game is. It could be to eat the food, or keep your opponent from solving a puzzle, or to steal your opponent's dolphin. Those are all the same thing as killing the survivors in terms of gameplay: There is an objective, and we try to do the objective. But it's problematic when players can forcibly ruin the experience of another player in any game.
And it's one thing when skill level matters. I expect to get destroyed if I play a sport against someone who plays professionally. But DBD isn't like that. No matter how skilled a survivor is, they will almost certainly not escape if the killer simply decides to tunnel them.
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Respectfully your reply to almost everything so far has been "fake story", "making things up", "moving goalposts", "trolling", etc. If you don't think the opposing side are discussing in good faith, then is the conversation worth continuing? I mean this sincerely. We're 4 pages in and it's getting noone anywhere.
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Then we are at an impasse… something something, Vizzini, something, Princess Bride.
But really though, tell me how I've moved the goalposts. I believe they're quite fixed in place :)
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Oh, do survivors get to choose their builds or something? If anything, I'd say that killers have a higher chance of getting perks that are actually useful than survivors do.
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It doesn't matter how many gens it's done at, if a player is forced to be unable to participatein the game except to be chased and eliminated, why would they play the game?
And for the record, I play about as much killer as survivor. There are no sides here.
Post edited by BoxGhost on10 -
>unable to participatein the game except to be chased
You realize this game is a variation of "TAG", right? That's literally the point of the game.
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But in Tag, the person who is 'it' doesn't just chase one person repeatedly even after tagging them. Did I miss something in that analogy?
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Alright let's turn this around. What are you doing when you play this game? What is your expected game here?
The game is designed in such a way that you can start a new round with new players in a very short time. I am genuinely curious since I do not experience any of the inconveniences that some of you are talking about.
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"we never look at ourselves and say "Man, I am a radically unfun person"."
How would you feel if someone hijacked your play experience? Maybe you should do some self-reflection once in a while because you seem like the "radically unfun person". Wouldn't hurt to practice some mindfulness.
The game could be about anything and you'd still justify being to be rude to others under the guise of "I'm not responsible for anyone else's fun" while actively ruining their time. Sure, you're only responsible for you but remember, you're not the only one there who's trying to have fun. Have some self-awareness, please.
You are the sad part of the community. I feel bad for your friends if they game with you if this is how you treat people.12 -
If I'm playing as survivor, I generally expect to be immersed in an environment where there's tension and a "horror" atmosphere, where I'll attempt to do the various tasks survivors have to do (e.g. some time on gens, some time going for saves, some time in chase, maybe go try to block for a death hook teammate, etc.). Tunneling takes that possibility away and instead makes the game into a nonstop chase where I'll have almost no chance of escape.
Likewise, as killer, I expect to hunt for and chase survivors, defend gens, and get survivors on hooks for sacrifices. An argument can be made that bully squads attempt to take that away from the killer since the 'hunt' generally stops the moment the first survivor goes down and a lot of the match turns into a competition to see if the killer can slug faster than the survivors heal until there's a moment to get someone on hook. I just don't complain about bully squads much because I usually don't see them get the gens done. Otherwise, I'd think they were a real problem, making the killer unable to participate in the game. But I generally still get hooks after two or three are slugged and the rest are injured :/
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Jesus you are one condescending person. Respectfully being as nice as possible here.
>How would you feel if someone hijacked your play experience?
Good luck trying that, you will fail, I absolutely guarantee you that.
>justify being to be rude to others
Brother I talk about playing the game. This is a forum about a game. I don't know you. Your feelings are yours to control, not mine.
>while actively ruining their time
You are ruining your own time. If you don't have this agency over your own life then I would suggest you get this under control before you engage in such games with other people. Again, respectfully, you seem like you have stuff you need to talk about.
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you're not the only one there who's trying to have funAh here we go, you're one of those. "Trying to have fun". Man I am having fun and you are not a factor to it no matter how hard you try. Do you see what I mean?
Also no point in dragging my friends into this. None of this is relevant to this discussion and quite frankly it's also none of your business.
Why are we constantly drifting offtopic with you?
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Tell me you're not getting that. Not every match will be the same and that is what makes this game so fun.
I get a killer who tunnels me? Amazing I get to practice running the killer. Oh he got me? Good sh*t, he's probably a good player or I have to practice more. But here you go pointing your fingers at others. You see what I mean?
Respectfully, I think this behavior is pathetic and leads you nowhere. Infact this place is nothing but an echochamber for crybabies who wallow in their own misery all day long while begging BHVR to implement impossible "fixes".
Post edited by BoxGhost on5 -
I think it's a good idea if we both take a step back here and agree to disagree about this :)
Post edited by BoxGhost on7 -
Cool, fine with me.
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No
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Commodius with a BNP Spool. Yes they do, I have used them in conjunction with a SWF.
I am sorry, but I am not accepting one-sided arguments as responses.2 -
Ah, sorry, I missed the sarcasm. :)
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I'm not sure if you disagree with my post or not, but the point is both sides abuse stuff and it's not fair to blame one or the other just because one side is the underdog.
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I play survivor quite regularly and I always think to myself "Where are all these serial sluggers at?", seriously. A killer that goes out of their way to slug everyone and leave on the floor is a rare outlier? The only conclusion that I can come to with these threads is that apparently OCE killers are normal, empathetic human beings while the rest of the world is apparently populated by the dregs of society or something. In which, sucks to be you guys I guess.
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Maybe the answer is to send all of those low skill killers to bot rooms then.
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It is actually better to play the normal mode during events because most of the trolls are busy griefing in the event queue.
Bhvr is already planning to fill event queues with bots anyway, so aside from grinding a few survivor only event challenges, there is no need to queue up for those modes anymore.
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Then i'm very happy for you but in my experience i've gotten 3 gens done in 1 minute wait out egc almost every other game so sorry if I don't want to play "nice" so i can get teabagged at the exit gate non stop every event its the same thing "ugh only killers play awful they're the worst human beings ever"
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This game simply is not what you want it to be. Demanding gentlemen's agreements and then being this condescending is ridiculous.
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Someone who's been at it for four pages sure sounds like an LLM having been given a prompt to argue in bad faith.
On the topic: Yeah, friend and I tried playing as duo and four out of for matches were either the slugging option (twins & oni) or the hard-tunneling option (pig & blight). On another occasion I played with two frens and it was the same… in so far as killers attempted to do this but between lucky draws with perks (three people having UB and one having soulguard while the killer got a lone Thrill is about as lucky as you can get in this situation, I guess) and killers overcommitting on the one person who could give them a tour of the map because they so happen to main that killer and know exactly what they can and can't do it was at least not an experience as horrid as the previous.
Bottom line for me on the slugging is, if the counter is "just don't get downed then", it's not a counter. And in a game that is built around survs having three lives, it is a design feature that needs looking at.
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So the killer is only ever allowed to slap you, hook you and then go as far away from you as possible?
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Don’t apologize because it doesn’t matter what you accept or not.
I have used them as well and I have faced at least one four-man SWF using them. These aren’t gen-rushing items.
Gen rush comes from when a BNP could instantly finish a Gen and players brought four of them.
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So, i had a post written up but i forgot to save it so whatever. Rundown:
- Killers feel like slugging is the best way to play for the 4k, given the amount of anti-hook perks that survivors have in general.
- It creates an unhealthy cycle, as Survivors feel forced to run perks that counter Slugging (Unbreakable, Tenacity, etc) to deal with the increased amount of it
- People on the forums and in general have noticed it has increased recently
This has nothing to do with this stuff with events i know, trolls and shitters like ######### around at event starts, but i do think changes need to be made for BHVR to create a healthier ecosystem with this #########, so my ideas.
- Buff Scourge Hooks. Add 1-2 more hooks, and do small buffs for perks that arent Pain Res and Floods of Rage (Because they are already very good)that are scourge hook related. Makes it so its more rewarding for the killers to hook survivors and they get more benefits from it, and also buffing weaker perks that might need it. Becareful with Gift of Pain, that can be problematic if taken too far (Which is why the addition of 1 scourge hook is prefered.) Could also rework a perk or two in a scourge hook to increase variety
- Nerf/Rework Knock-Out. It's unhealthy, and if you say it isn't your crazy, considering the state of solo que for survivors. It's not strong yes, but this perk needs to be changed in someway to either make it healthier, or nerfed until BHVR can figure out a way to make it healthier.
- Most Controversial change id argue, but buffing anti-slug perks that are not unbreakable. So, buffing a perk like Soul Guard or Tenacity, make it so it's weaker to slug overall if you have these perks. (They can also add new perks aswell, but considering BHVR's track record, its gonna be either garbage or broken, no inbetween).
Overall, it makes it more worth for Killers to hook Survivors, extra scoruge hooks and buffed effects make it more viable to hook because you get more bang for your buck. Knock Out is unhealthy, and it either needs to be re-worked or put in the dumpster until it can be, and a buff or two to other anti-slugging perks (Soul Guard) to add more options and give survivors more abilities to fight back against slugging, but that is a fine line that needs to be put in place, because you tip past it, could cause issues for Killers, and we might be back in this cycle, but in the reverse, where Slugging is nerfed completly to the dirt, and it feels awful to use, espically considering it is very much viable in certain situations, where Slugging matters and is very important for the killer. Overall, Slugging for the 4k gets nerfed, but slugging in scenarios where it can help the killer and is beneficial for them should be relatively untouched.
Yes, i know there will be issues with this from both sides, but i do think something needs to happen that allows both sides to have healthier gameplay loops with each other in general right now, and to create a healthier environment. BHVR just need to becareful with how they adjust stuff, because it can cause issues, as we have seen many times in the past if they go to far in one direction.
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If people go in with the attitude that when killers prioritize winning it's considered selfish, but when survivor team prioritizes winning it's completely fine, then of course they are going to be unhappy with the game.
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But you are the plaything of the entity. We are here to ensure your played with. you are the prop. We will punish you as we see fit. We work for the Entity. We are not kind, We are not Friendly, We will not Meme…We will kill for the great and powerful Entity we shall call quasimodo (Because he puts all survivors in a hump)
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🙄🙄
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Hello! Im not the original person you replied to, so my input may or may not be wanted, but the topic you’re discussing I actually am curious of your opinions/thoughts because I myself created a post somewhat long ago asking to define what Gen Rushing is. My main concern was that I had heard various different people call gen rushing various different things, sortve like how sometimes people say “tunneling” when it really wasn’t because tunneling does have a very specific definition.
When the term was originally coined it was back when the BNP was instant, a 4 man would come in with the exact same items/build dedicated completely for gens and they would complete then all in a sickening amount of time. It was so unfair that thankfully it was gutted, and it is no longer possible to do now what used to be done then when gen rushing was created as a term. (Changes for those perks, the BNP, and gen times for longer) But the term has still stuck around despite its qualifications of existence having not, and so I asked the community to help define what it was. The consensus was mainly “it’s dependent upon that person” as in it doesn’t have a specific definition as everyone defines it differently. Which to be honest with the way my brain works, found that to be an extremely difficult answer because it’s something generally regarded as negative, it has negative connotations, and is used as a justification for many other things, so not being able to have a definitive answer of what it is kinda drives me nuts lol.
So if you don’t mind sharing, what is your personal definition of gen-rushing? Is it simply if gens get done without a certain number of hooks being met regardless if any gen perks or toolboxes are present? Is it when a specific builds or items are brought in, regardless if its Solo?6 -
A lot of the replies highlight what I suspected. This is largely an EQ problem.
Players defending mass slugging keep pointing out why they're doing it as if people will suddenly be ok with it as long as they have a good reason.
Nobody cares why you're doing it. It's ruining the game for 4 other people. They want you to stop. Like...this is a basic life skill.
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I am NA and I rarely see serial slugging, I much more often see tunnelling over here, which is easily dealt with and still also pretty uncommon. I genuinely am not getting these super toxic slugging lobbies, which either means I am very lucky or some players doth protest too much, methinks.
Respectfully friend I have never seen a version of tag where this isn't allowed. Most people just don't do that because the tagged person is then It, or out of the round, or they learn to stay away from the person who is It better. I don't think the analogy quite fits here.
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Yeah, it is mainly a Player type problem with the killer choosing to do so, but I think BHVR has the power to increase incentivization of hooking, while also buffing anti-slug Surv perks and nerf/re-work knock out. It wont kill slugging, but it would make trying out right 4k with it more difficult, but it still remains strong in situations that you as the killer need to slug. But BHVR chooses not to do so right now, until it becomes too large of a problem to ignore, so if it continues, i can see them changing stuff if it gets to a breaking point, which it feels like it always has to reach that point to see changes.
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I agree it's a crappy way to play during an event, but frankly, I don't think that's actually the case that everyone thinks ONLY Killers are sweaty this event, and I strongly believe we have an upvote bot or vote-buffing issue on these forums - that is, people being banned, making new accounts, and then getting access back to old accounts and logging in to vote the posts up on their current one. Not even 30+ people are participating in this thread, so how are some people getting 30+ upvotes for posts that amount to "Killer/Survivor bad"?
It's pretty clear too that all the upvotes given are angry ones done to hyper-boost the more one-sided and angry responses. Because it surely IS NOT just Killers behaving this way - this is provable, and it can easily be proven by anyone going in with a mid to lower tier Killer and having to face Survivors that bring strong items every round in the mode who then do things like teabag at the gates while refusing to leave. It's really everyone behaving this way; pinning it on one side only is immature at worst and very woefully unbalanced of a take at best.That, and you simply cannot and should not tell the quality of a post by its upvotes; I see plenty of people here very calmly and rationally pointing out that EVERYONE is being jerks in the event queue getting nothing or few upvotes, while many people who are being one-sided or us vs. them are getting lots of upvotes. The anger drowns out rational thought so no real discussion can occur outside of a popularity contest.
This is how groupthink works.
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Im also NA, and i dont see slugging outside of the occasional Twins or Oni, with Twins being the common one. I havent ssen much lately either, but alot of people are complaining about it, and i have seen in general an increase on the complaining lately. I do think BHVR needs to do something if this continues to be an issue and if it grows and festers from where it is right now (Though that might be an EU thing rather an NA thing.)
I agree on the tunneling, thats very much prelevant here in NA, but idk how much compared to EU
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You feel this way too friend? :(
I loved the modes, I love Chaos Shuffle. I enjoyed Lights Out both times, I enjoy Masquerade every year, and I enjoyed Haunted by Daylight for all the years it's been on. I sort of liked the first 2v8 but was over it in about three days, and just didn't really enjoy the second take at all. It kinda feels like all of the modes have been optimized the way the rest of the game has and it's not really any fun at all, and I genuinely don't know how to fix that.
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I think a lot of people are mistaking a long down with a slug, just because the Killer doesn't hook right away or worse yet, loses them. Then they crawl off and hide and that makes the issue even worse. Personally if I see myself slugged this way, I just crawl to the nearest hook so the Killer realizes "hey, you win good job, if you're a decent human please hook me and take your points so we can all move on with the round, friend." If they then still leave me down anyway, I know they're actually being a jerk.
I also think a lot of people are angry at "slugging for the 4k", probably because sometimes Killers will slug someone then search the whole map for the last person. But it takes two to create a situation like this - one Survivor, and one Killer, and I think the 2k then 2 slug epidemic says a lot more about that fourth Survivor than the Killer. This is because the hatch can't spawn until you or the other person dies, so it's much better to die so your teammate can maybe get hatch. Look at it this way: if you're hiding and not helping your teammate, and they end up slugged and the Killer has to look for you, then finds you and you take them on a 2 minute chase because you can, how is that really the Killer's fault your teammate is slugged? The Killer didn't know you were going to play hard to get and make yourself as difficult to handle as possible either out of need to win or out of spite, how could they? You're not helping in that situation; the round is basically over, your team lost and the Killer isn't letting you go - be the better person and just take the L here so everyone can leave and your teammate can maybe try for hatch, because I guarantee that's all the Killer also wants to do is leave. GG glhf nr.
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Hi, thanks for the kind response. :)
I personally was not around when BNPs were instant, but I have played for some time and heard the horror stories. These days, I would define "genrushing" as either anything intended tactically to do generators extremely quickly (which is valid and strategic), or whenever multiple gens get done quickly in succession, often in chase, and usually one right after the other like bingbingbing. I don't consider number of hooks done beforehand to be part of the definition. Generally, anytime Survivors REALLY focus gens and are bringing stuff to facilitate that. It's a tactic, like how some slugging is a tactic or how some amount of gen control is a tactic. It's part of the game, and while it's annoying it is valid. It doesn't hurt any less to be stung by though especially when you get that rare team you simply can't really catch.While gens can no longer be instantly done and many changes to gens have occurred to fix this, I believe it is still possible in a neutered form, the same way that "bully squads" no longer holds the same weight but still can be present in a neutered form (see some of the common nuisance SWF builds like the wiggle-sabo or head on flashbang squads for example). Much of the teeth has been taken from genrushing as a tool, but it still remains a powerful tool in the Survivor arsenal and even I still tell my SWF to "rush gens" if the game starts to go south for us, meaning I want them to focus the gens as hard as they possibly can.
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There, I like this guy. You're cool. You know how to play a game without getting played. You're a player.
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You can bet if it reached a point where a majority of survivors run full anti-tunnel/anti-slug builds killers will just complain until they all get nerfed.
How do I know? Because its happened before. Doesn't anyone else remember the forum tales of insert sad violin theme "I hate tunneling default meg at 5 gens with Nurse, but if I don't, she could have DS available during end game! Just nerf DS and I swear I'll never need to tunnel again. Oh and also dead hard. And Adrenaline."
Every iteration of "just blanket nerf survivors again and I'll play in a fun way" has ended the same way. Maps being nuked, anti-tunnel perks being nuked, gens taking longer. Every time it just makes the same boring 9 year old killer playstyles stronger.
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Oh for sure. It's on BHVR to implement a solution to address it, because certain player types are always going to behave like that. The Bartle taxonomy of player types is an interesting read. It's pretty clear what type these players fall under. It's really no different than any competitive sport. Basketball had to introduce a shot clock because teams would hold the ball and stall. Baseball had to introduce a pitch clock. There are many examples.
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