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"Go Next" & AFK Crows: How To Fix The Unfixable

GoodBoyKaru
GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,930
edited June 20 in Feedback and Suggestions

This posted slightly too early, bear with.

So, to anyone who's been anywhere DBD-related the past two days, the rather cataclysmic failures of the "Go Next" Prevention & AFK Crow Update should be common knowledge, and while I also massively disagree with the execution of the systems, I don't think the actual concepts are entirely fundamentally flawed. Solving the Go Next issue without addressing the root causes of going next (which, when they're as varied as "I have emetophobia and cannot face the Plague" and "I got outplayed by a Freddy" is next to impossible) was never going to be easy, and I don't think it's possible to ever do so. Moreover, I don't think the current system will do so, as two days in people have already found a workaround (FWIW if you get unhooked → get on a gen, miss every skillcheck → get unhooked → get on a gen, miss every skillcheck the game doesn't give you a penalty because it thinks you've participated enough). It is currently flagging up far too many false positives, and removing the Attempt Unhook prompt has caused more problems than I feel it has actually solved. At the end of the day, if someone doesn't want to play a game, they won't play the game, and no amount of punishment will change that.

So, what do I suggest we do to fix these systems?

Let's start with the "Go Next" Prevention. As I said, I don't think the core concepts are unsalavable, but they have been massively overcomplicated (yet left bizzarly broad), meaning individuals are being punished for being tunneled/using perks like Shoulder the Burden and actual people wanting to go next still are. Firstly, the Attempt Unhook prompt should only be removed if both: it is the first 7 minutes of a match; and there is at least one healthy or injured survivor.
This is because, after 7 minutes, it is hardly likely someone is willing to go next out of frustration, and moreso to help give their other teammates more of a chance at escape. It is entirely obvious when a game is lost (7 hooks at 4 gens, you are not pulling that back no matter how hard you claw) and so it is, in my opinion, entirely fair to attempt the kobe or, failing that, shorten your own hook timer. It is frustrating when this happens on first down, much less so when you're a good chunk of the way through the game. Moreover, a while ago (2017? 2018? Maybe 2019?) BHVR introduced a system where, when all survivors were hooked, and all were in the Struggle Phase, they would be instantly sacrificed so a player wouldn't be stuck in a game where they would essentially AFK. This can be sped up by Attempting Unhook, either granting the survivors a second wind or allowing all players to move on quicker, and while this has been partially mitigated by the Abandon system, it is nowhere near comparable. One is leaving the game, and one is fighitng it through until the bitter end. Ironically, by removing self-unhooks in all situations, BHVR have re-encouraged individuals to stall for time, or are encouraging players to leave by abandoning matches instead of playing it out.
Secondly, survivors should still be able to die during Struggle Phase, just later into the match. It is incredibly common, and often relieving, to see a teammate giving up on second stage to allow you to search for Hatch faster. What is annoying on first down becomes a godsend later into the match, and again removing this serves almost no purpose but to further drag out lost games. No interaction on two Struggle skillchecks should allow a survivor to die at the same time as regular self-unhooks unlocks, so around 7 minutes into the match.
Obviously, the same other exceptions apply, most notably when using luck offerings or the perk(s) Slippery Meat, Up the Ante, and Deliverance.
Finally, I'd remove the penalty. The system has already shown to be far too volatile, and far too willing to punish innocent players, which has caused many players picking up DBD for the first time due to Tuesday's chapter release to hastily drop it when they get penalised for no reason. I would prefer players be able to "get away" with going next (after finding a work around, or waiting 7 minutes and actually playing the game) than they be punished along with many innocent players.

Now, the AFK Crow update, and dare I say it, a car crash. At the very least these values need to be tripled. Drawing on the numbers of @Coffeecrashing (dare I call us friends?) in their post here, the grace period and time to spawn crows all need to be monumentally increased. 30 second grace period, 180 seconds to spawn first crow, etc, and simply interacting with props for a second should remove them - the instant-clear should be granted to healing, totems, chests, etc. as opposed to just generators and chases. Stealth deerves to be a part of this game, after it has been for nine years now, and this update has removed any and all chance for stealthy plays to become commonplace, as they are now more fluke and far more effort than they're worth. It makes rescuing downed teammates very difficult, it makes pallet/flashlight saves far more difficult than they already are, it is overly punishing on newer players; the whole system needs to be far more lenient if nothing is to change (and the lost collision should be at first crow, not third).
But this is not enough, I would argue. The entire "AFK Point" system should be shelved and merged with the old system, to only punish those truly AFK or hiding to the extreme, and I think we should tie AFK crows into the existing Abandon system to do so. The game can clearly track when objectives were last progressed, as the Abandon mechanic requires (if I remember it correctly) 10 minutes of no generator progress. So, if an individual survivor has not progressed an interaction at all for, say, 8 minutes, they receive crows each 15 seconds apart (so 8 mins, 8 mins 15 secs, 8 mins 30 secs), culminating in loud noise notifications. If they have not moved at all, crows accrue after 1 minute instead. This gives them time to hide, ensures they stay on their feet while stealthing, and gives enough of a grace period (imo) to allow them to progress the generators while penalising AFK and extreme hiders, who attempt to hold a game hostage by performing no progress and simply hiding. If survivors tap props but commit to nothing, then that is what the Abandon system is for (either hunt it out or move on) and if survivors tap gens then they will be in the patrol path at one point or another. Sometimes the simplier solution is the best one.
Moreover, I do not think the lost collision should be tied to crows at all. If a player has not moved for 30 seconds, they lost collision, and retain lost collision for 5 seconds after moving again. That's quite literally all that had to happen, imo.

So yeah, I really hope the devs reconsider both of these systems, because imo they have made them overly wide to catch everyone, including those who should not be caught, and could both do with (at the bare minimum) being made massively more lenient, if not being mostly rolled back.

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Comments

  • SoGo
    SoGo Member Posts: 4,258

    I do agree that the solutions could be simplified and disassemled into parts that don't affect eachother.

    The Go-Next Prevention is a disaster, undoubtebly. I agree with your take that the unhooks only need to be disabled for the first 7 minutes.

    The system that tracks if players are going next should be MASSIVELY fine-tuned, or just pushed back and reintroduced later, and hopefully functional.

    I would gladly separate the bodyblocking prevention fron the AFK/hiding prevention, so it doesn't get dragged along with it.

    And, the anti-excessive-hiding prevention first needs to be fixed so it works like intended, and then fine-tuned so we don't have ways to counterract it and making it useless, but also make it so it doesn't trigger too often.

  • Tong
    Tong Member Posts: 22

    Game having bug with the f*cking stupid crows so far.
    Also if the game down to the last 2 survivors, the inactivities for the crow should be increase + the perk Left Behind should buff with increase range.
    I mean it's not like people always do the game with parties or with proper counters for the killers. OR the hatch always appear random, sometime closer to the killer.

  • EEP
    EEP Member Posts: 58
  • EEP
    EEP Member Posts: 58

    The Go next prevention and AFK crows system are way over done. All that needd to happen for go next was reduce the chance to try for 4% to one attempt, and stop the second hook skill check kill until end game. The DC penalty should only have been changed to the removal of 1 point every 2 days as it was every day. AFK crows should have only removed collision and the removal of pickup and drop of item counter to crows. Luck offerings should be reworked to affect items in chest or the gate spawn locations or somthing.

  • NanaSynn
    NanaSynn Member Posts: 4
    edited June 20

    I 100% agree that the afk timer needs tweaking. I was in match that one was hooked in basement clear on other side of map, another was downed and being carried to basement (I was heading to a new gen) I decided to book it to the basement to try and save.. came across someone else heading there to but kept going since two were hooked and someone may need a protection hit.. with just 1 crouch on the way when I was in terror radius.. I got there and the other person got both unhooks (second one barely before me) so leave, one crouch as I leave killer shack.. and then a crow.. start running for gen.. start working on gen and actually got a second crow while working on gen..

    I was actively participating the entire match.. distance to point A & point B with staying out of killers view by crouching a couple times took too long.. I was penalized for not playing recklessly. I have video of this whole thing but can't post here.

    Edited for typos and word omissions.

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,930

    I think this hits my biggest issue with it on the head, too. Knowing that the system exists and will push me away from more niche playstyles to just be as hypervigilant on gens as I can be to avoid the new crow system (so when I do need to stealth I'll have maximum time to do so) just… doesn't make me want to boot up dbd. Even while the punishment part of the go-next prevention is off, all of the oversights just don't make me want to play the game.