http://dbd.game/killswitch
Dynamic Pre-Lobby Balancing Without Nerfing Freedom
Hi everyone, lets give this another try!
I’d like to propose a concept that could help reduce unfair matches, rage DCs, and trolling especially in situations where killers face high-MMR SWFs running full-meta builds and other way around for solo queue survivors. The idea is to preserve player freedom while applying lightweight, dynamic adjustments that improve match fairness without removing perks, offerings, or core mechanics.
What Is This?
A Dynamic Fairness System that activates in the pre-lobby phase when a match is clearly unbalanced based on data like MMR differences, party size, perk/item strength, and playtime.
This is designed for outlier cases — for example:
A 4-stack SWF brings Dead Hard, Prove Thyself, Adrenaline, and BNPs
Survivors are all high-MMR with hundreds of hours
Killer is low-to-mid MMR with significantly less experience
The match typically ends in 5–6 minutes with 4 escapes and maybe 1 hook. This system would recognize that pattern before the match begins and apply temporary, context-based perk/item tuning to reduce that imbalance.
How It Works (Simplified)
In the pre-lobby:
The game analyzes each player's MMR, perks, items, match history, and team composition.
The system will show a warning message or well an alert that the perks that they are running have been adjusted to match their recent performance and match the killers they have been getting.
The system will work in harmony with killer design build and killer choice and their performance and on par with survivor choices.
If the system detects a significant risk of a one-sided match, it applies soft balance changes like:
Prove Thyself: reduced from +15% to +5% (only for this match)
BNP: progress reduced to 60%, with a required skill check
Dead Hard: slightly tighter timing window or longer exhaustion
No perks or offerings are banned, map offerings are untouched, players are notified that slight tuning has occurred for balance.
Example Scenario:
A 4-stack of high-MMR survivors brings BNPs, full toolboxes, and meta perks into a match with a 1400-MMR killer running standard perks. The system detects the stomp risk and slightly reduces Prove Thyself’s gen speed and the effectiveness of BNPs. The match proceeds as normal, but the killer now has a realistic chance to engage.
Same scenario can be applied if a higher mmr tier killer runs meta killer and perk build making it really unfair to play againts and rushes the match to the point where no gens can end up being fixed.
Why This Matters:
Meta builds stay usable, survivors can still run their favorite perks and items, but when team coordination and MMR advantage stack too high, small adjustments help prevent steamrolls without removing playstyles.
Killers feel less punished, they’re more likely to stay in matches, leading to fewer early DCs and less frustration on both sides.
Survivors gain stronger match quality, fairer matches mean more actual gameplay, not just fast escapes or short, unfun chases. It’s more rewarding when your build and teamwork are tested, not just auto-win.
More stable matchmaking over time, fewer stomped killers = fewer rage quits = healthier queue times and better matchmaking quality overall, which helps everyone.
No restrictions on play freedom, survivors still control their perks, maps, and loadouts. The system only soft-adjusts values in extreme cases, and only for that match.
Reduces toxic behavior, when matches feel more balanced, there’s less griefing, trolling, and flaming between sides.
Why Not Just Nerf the Perks Globally?
Because those same perks might be fine in solo queue or lower-MMR matches. This system adjusts only when necessary and only in matches where synergy, items, and skill level converge in a way that creates extreme imbalance. It targets the context, not the content.
Open for Feedback:
This is just a proposal, I’m very interested in hearing what others think, especially players who’ve been on either end of extremely one-sided matches. The intent is not to punish good players, but to reduce unnecessary stomps and improve long-term match quality for everyone.
Would also appreciate that before down-voting the people that downvote give a reason as to why they think it deserves a down vote.
Thanks for reading!
@Sjady (did not see what else you wrote in that one post)
Comments
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You can't punish people for playing with their friends!
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That was fast!
Please read what ive said in the post, its not about punishing and it wont punish even if its friends, only if it see's a pattern.
Ive seen enough posts already i decided to take matter in my own hands to finally suggest something that wont nerf perks and killers and survivors globally, it would leave majority of players alone and focus on the ones that make the gameplay not fun! It might be fun for them but not to us!
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This seems like more effort than just nerfing these things in the first place.
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If they do the nerfs the devs will just cause people to stop playing the builds overall and it might not even be fun for them and it will become a boycot and pitchforks where people leave the game if their meta build gets either nerfed to oblivion or fully removed and changed up.
This effort is needed to allow more freedom between perk builds so people can keep using meta builds but the system will see that their goal is to keep winning by running these builds only and not to have fair match.
Also do read up a bit about MMR too since it would also lower the perk build efficiency if the matchmaking puts you up againts more experienced players
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but you think a system that stealth nerfs perks in lobby wouldn't get a similiar reaction?
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It would not stealth nerf the perks? It would show up in the pre lobby that if they run that build it will decrease the value they get out of the perk build as a team.
They can make icon warning or they see it on their OSD near perks.
Players can then choose to switch up perks that might give them better values in other places than what they want to win faster or in an "unfair" way which is open to debate but i would say we all know what unfair means when you matchmake.
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My bad! I did write it in my drafted post but it deleted my written progress how it should notify the players in pre-lobby that the values have decreased potential etc.
I will edit the OP
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Players can also choose to changed their perks after they've been nerfed in a patch. This is such an unnecessary extra step to avoid nerfing the problem perks.
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The constant nerfs and buffs will just make players leave the game and not return, look at the state of the forum most posts are about exactly that, and the higher the mmr the higher chances you get to be put in a lobby with people that can still switch up their builds to match the nerfs specifically either a 3 man premade or full that are highly cordinated and know what they are doing with perk builds, this step is necessary to battle exactly that.
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Also the system works within inside of the system basing its decision by match history of said players and learn from that, it wont really be a nerf and buff system its more about balancing fun and fair play for everyone to not get salty and mad about their game results.
Its more about keeping players intact and make the playerbase grow and expand, i have ran the tests myself and been thinking about it
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For anyone wondering i am totally 100% with you by not nerfing perks that help you win againts certain killers that have high pick rate due to their abilities that help secure the win by them running certain builds.
Thats why the system will only mainly trigger and work behind the scenes for the killers and survivors, i really do understand the struggles when you play with randoms againts a killer with abilities, then i also understand why people play with friends its to win more and not be put in a match with people that dont have synergy to counter those builds
This is why this system should be at least experimented with in PTB and see how it goes by the devs.
It will fully leave you alone if you match with players alike your caliber, if you match with people that dont match you the system will activate and it can still be adjusted and tuned the way devs want it to be, it will just be supplied by monthly stat recap and match history to be really precise and know what actually makes players not wanna play.
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So, all of this is focused on making the match easier for killers.
For example, if we're considering "outliers", as you call it, we're focusing on bringing down SWF and bringing up "lower tier" killers, but why not also consider "the blight with quad slowdown hard tunneling at 5 gens on a 1500+ win streak"? Should that not also be a consideration?
I'm not necessarily opposed to "bringing up lower tier killers" in theory, but if there's one lesson we should be learning from 9.0 above anything else is that a system or mechanic that "evaluates how players are playing" is never going to work.
MMR barely functions, and the only thing that looks at is the end result, not the means of getting there. Adding complexity, especially using subjective criteria (like "how" someone plays), is not going to make a better system.
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We are considering it for killers too?
Is the post not clear on helping the survivors too?
The whole point is for the system to work neutral ways and have a directive to make it fair play between two roles
And i did mention in the post it will collect collective data across entire match history aka see how long it took to finish the match, what made the match finish so fast, why it finished so fast, which items were used, perks, killers.
and most importantly player playstyle if the killer spent most of their times hooking and not downing and kicking gens and playing fair it will also see that.
The system will work and i can put my life at stake on it because machine learning is really good at figuring out patterns and finding out root cause of issues, even though devs and we know what the root issue is, the system in place for that will work.
I do apologies if it was not clear in the post.
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MMR barely functions because for it to work as intended you need a playerbase higher like most esport games like siege, rocket league etc.
Current mmr system is designed to prevent long queues and discard the fact you as a 100h player goes againts 1k hour killer just because you got to escape many times and bump up the MMR.
And even in those games players sadly get put in lobbies because nobody actually has their MMR so the devs make it so you get matched with 100-200~~diff
The system will be fully locked in place as a reinforcement for that and secure that games even if you get put in higher end lobbies you will enjoy the match and not hate it because in high end lobbies the meta are those killers and perks.
Same goes for lower end mix of mmr.
And yeah almost every comp game wont add this system because it would not really make sense for them to add it in their games due to not having perk system, unique killer abilities, map offerings etc.
This would be really ideal for DBD as a game
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I am a currently studying the course for machine learning and neural network systems and its actually quite easy if you have already all the inputs to give to the machine and you program it to follow one specific directive and tell it to improve on it and can tune it to be weaker or more aggressive at doing its job.
It will take the team full dedication i believe they can make it possible since they do listen to the feedback and user reports.
I just wish people believed in the ai more about being used to balance the entire matchmaking system, ai does not want to punish players it will be directed to put a stop to constant nerfs and buffs to meta perks and killers
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Yeah if we go in depth its more about data analysis and clustering methods, i was just trying to explain blatant terms what it would be doing.
People interpret it punishing and applying permanent nerfs which is not the case, each match will be different due to killer variation and even if same killer choice but different player the perk values will differ from prior matches because it learns from patterns.
Like this will help the survivors get placed higher and higher up until they get matched with similar perk build killer and where values will be neligible to differ.
Only at lower ranks it will be really noticable and of course on people that purposly drop ranks to play worse killer or worse survivors (no offense to anyone).
By my calculations ive done at home it should work but it will take aprox 3 to 6 full months to reach noticable changes in how community plays and see noticable growth, lower penalties and trolls and griefers.
At start it will be really rough start but if done and tuned correctly and be transparent with what the ai has learned and publish these stats to the public forums for players to learn more about it.
It will be as i call it piece of cake :P
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I hear you, but it would be so much easier to just fix the blatantly awful MMR system of DBD. Currently what happens, at least in my experience, I win a few matches in a row against potato lobbies, so now the MMR system sees my wins and now it has to balance it out towards a 2K, so what the MMR system does: It gives you unwinnable matches untill you get back to that 2k average. It literally only counts kill/escapes. It is beyond me that they still havent changed this system…
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Yeah see, sad news is you cant balance the MMR system to stop doing that unless you give in more players to play the game, aka i will give a dramatic number, 100k active players playing or 150k, this is when MMR systems start to perform very well due to better variation of similar MMR points assigned to each player.
So this system i suggested to the devs to consider would help eliminate that playergap and lets say dbd playerbase grows larger reaching 100k players active (not counting events and stuff), the ML system will be tuned down on its own if devs decide or they can take more control and tune it manually each month to make it neligible, it will basically be a perfect counter to resolving MMR displacement of players and it cant be fooled even if you drop rank to "smurf" which i noticed a lot of players do when i play as a killer and a survivor, so right now people kinda trick the current mmr system by deranking, with ML system in place you cant hide from it unless you buy a brand new account and smurf from there but that is another story which all of 99% of paid comp games struggle with fixing.
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Yea, you can only punish people who play Solo!
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But yeah, kill/escape system can easily tricked which kinda defeats the whole purpose of it anyways fully wrecking it and it becoming useless almost.
I wish there was another way to tackle this issue, other method is to make a whole different system which would make players get even more filtered and grouped up to make Q-time longer for both parties.
Or if they add a specific mode but that will 100% split the playerbase in half which makes q-time worse too.
I wont deny that ML system wont kinda make it iffy to play the game for first few months but it will catch up to speed, they can feed it 1 year old stats or older and newer ones and let it analyze everything in order before releasing it in public testing and bare with it should be in a long testing phase and properly tuned.
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(Post got edited by mod, was intended for a tag of a different person)
Irrelevant reply carry on.
Post edited by Coffee2Go on0 -
I'm pretty sure the builds players run aren't loaded in until after the lobby countdown is complete, and then loads as it generates the map. So what are we talking about about here, another lobby before the lobby (and in the case of SWF a third lobby)?
I can here the game creaking and tearing just trying to do all of that.
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There are 3 perk profile builds that player can switch from, im pretty sure most players like myself too fill out those 3 profile builds depending how they wanna play.
The build shows for user top right under "perks" which ones they are currently running and have been using, the ML will judge based off of the used perk profile.
There wont be any pre-pre lobby need for anything the game remains the same, perk values the same unless devs want to nerf and buff the perks by default, the ML just dynamically scales off of those default perk values.
The hope to achive here is for players to not really stack same perks if they play in a premade lobby and same goes for the killer perk builds and killer choice.
Oh and this will help balance the future update the devs have planned for in future and its to show your own perks too the lobby for other survivors to see if you are solo q.
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I am totally on board with this idea, and here's why I think it would be extremely beneficial for the Dead by Daylight community.
First of all, the proposed system seems to offer an intelligent solution to the current issues of frustration, rage quits, and imbalance between players. What I particularly like about it is that it allows for player freedom while introducing temporary, dynamic adjustments that only apply when necessary. This helps to resolve situations where one side is clearly at a disadvantage without sacrificing the integrity of player builds or choices.
Reducing Rage Quits and Frustration
One of the biggest challenges in the game right now is the frequency of rage quits, especially from killers. When a killer faces a high-SWF (Survive With Friends) team with extremely strong meta builds, they may lose all interest in continuing. The proposed system, which slightly adjusts perks and items in extreme situations, allows the killer to better manage these imbalances without feeling completely overpowered. As a result, this would lead to fewer rage quits, less frustration, and killers staying in the match, leading to a more stable experience.
A More Balanced Experience for Survivors
From the survivor side, this approach seems to guarantee more balanced matches. Often, when facing very powerful or experienced killers, survivors don't even have the chance to organize or develop strategies. The matches then turn into quick escapes, where the game loses all of its excitement. By making adjustments that don’t directly penalize survivor builds but make them fairer in a context where the imbalance is too obvious, it allows for more engaging matches. We would have more chances to see long chases, group strategies, and genuinely exciting moments.
Matchmaking Stability and Better Gameplay Quality
One of the most important points is the matchmaking stability that this could bring. This system would help manage the skill disparity between players better, which would be beneficial for everyone: fewer stomps, less frustration, and thus better queue times for everyone. This would be a way to maintain balance over the long term, improving the quality of matches and making the gameplay experience more enjoyable for both survivors and killers.
No Restrictions on Player Freedom
What I also find extremely positive is that this proposal imposes no restrictions on player freedom. No perk, item, or offering would be banned. The system simply adjusts the values of certain perks based on the match's circumstances. It’s an approach that allows for the diversity of playstyles while making subtle, contextual adjustments where necessary, without hurting players' strategies or playstyles. In short, it lets everyone keep playing as they wish while providing a better balance in extreme situations.
Conclusion
I genuinely believe that this idea would bring a real improvement to the overall Dead by Daylight experience. It reduces frustrations without sacrificing player freedom, and it would make matches more interesting and balanced. It’s a system that seems to win on all fronts: fewer rage quits, more balanced matches, fewer stomps, and more stable queue times. In short, a change that could really improve the quality of life for all players, whether they’re killers or survivors.
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It’s not about punishing survivors who play together, but about making matches more balanced. The idea is to slightly adjust perks or items in situations where the imbalance is too obvious, to give the killer a fairer challenge without restricting survivors' freedom.
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Much appreciated for seeing the vision and how it can help both sides!
Not really sure why no staff have replied at least considered it or confirmed that they have had similar idea or same to add in game.
wish some day they reply
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They don't care about game balance, they just want money.
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I find the whole "go next" system a bit odd because its just a fasade to cover up the real issue.
I asked a buddy of mine if he can try to make some simulation tests for dbd perks on his rig since he also goes to same uni as me, he said he will figure out something when he is less busy.
I sadly dont have a rig that i can setup the machine learning but even then the devs did confirm that players only have surface level stats from the API.
Devs get the good stuff to balance the game.
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BHVR wants to control everything, even if it means sabotaging their own game. They consistently reject community involvement, even when the feedback is valid. Streamers who've been part of the scene for years have asked for hooks to be rewarded instead of kills — a simple fix that would drastically reduce frustration-based toxic strategies. Yet after all this time, nothing's changed. No willingness to listen, just control.
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Oh i wish hooks are rewarded, its more fun to hook than to kill, killing takes way too much time and with current perk values since all gen slowdown perks have been sent underground the gens just fly by, its chaos out there when i play survivors its like killers have stockholm syndrom of being punished for doing chases on multiple people at once now they just stick to one person and tunnel them until they get their kill.
The most disgusting truth is when i do play as a survivor i never get put in a 2 SWF lobby or 3, always randoms even if i do good and get good gradings and escape rate.
This just makes the whole thing sad because devs focus on the system that places you only with randoms that end up dying because they pop perks that dont give a solo q player any worth.
There is a night and day diff between playing againts a 4 premade and againts 4 solo q survivors with random builds.
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Rewarding hooks instead of kills would make the game more enjoyable and would also eliminate most of the behaviors labeled as toxic—slugging, proxy camping, tunneling… all of it would become unnecessary.
But instead of fixing the root of the issue, the devs keep buffing survivors to artificially compensate. And with the upcoming patches that will further punish killers for playing "efficiently," they’re only reinforcing an already flawed system.
The irony is that the current state of the game pushes killers to play this way if they actually want to win. And yet, we get punished for it.
At this point, I seriously wonder if they even understand their own game anymore.
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I did see a post about an admin saying how they are aware of certain perks that give high risk high reward or so they say because that is like a diplomatic answer most staff use to not side with anyone on the forums.
My take is they are fully aware of the perks and know that in a game like this players will never be satisfied with buffs and nerfs but gen rush has been seriously most noticable than it has ever been recently.
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Honestly, I don’t even think the staff is truly aware of the game’s problems. There aren't any truly experienced players on the team to explain the problems in a clear and honest way.
People like Otzdarva, who could really push things forward, prefer to take the easy route by flattering the staff. Streamers like him, well-known in the community, probably have a contract with them, which explains why he smooths things over, minimizes all the game’s issues, and makes people believe that everything can be fixed just by improving players' skills. He plays it safe, not wanting to risk losing his contract, community, and revenue. It’s understandable, but the truth is, this complicit silence is keeping the game stagnant. If nothing changes, part of the responsibility also lies with these influential figures.
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Yeah after all money makes the world spin or so they say, its a bummer since if they were to add this system or play around with it they would end up being the first Asymmetrical pvp/pvpe game that has done this for its community fully adding randomized rng not relying on anything just fully being upredictable where even if you have skill as a player you will not be able to know where to go, if people want true skill to shine then it would have to be based off of how quick and fast players adapt to the map they have been given.
But thats now going too in depth something that they would need more budget for
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