Trickster Update
Comments
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I'll tell you about 'Korean dubbing'.
"Trixter Hak Ji-woon" and "Kwon Tae-young"
In short, it's too awkward and weird for Koreans to see."Collaboration Chapter" is expensive to make in good quality, is it because it's "Original Chapter"? There are so many shortcomings compared to "Collaboration Chapter".
It would have been better if I had boldly paid for the original chapter as well and been inspected by a "veteran professional voice actor in Korea".
Just as foreigners say their pronunciation is weird when speaking English, the dubbing of Hak Ji-woon and Kwon Tae-young is so ridiculous.
And 'Hak Ji-woon' has a lot of new lines, so why hasn't the dubbing of 'Lee Yoon-jin' released together been added?
As far as I know, the old character is 'employee dubbing' and I heard it's hard to add the old voice again as it is, but Lee Yunjin was not added despite being a 'professional voice actor'.
What is more incomprehensible is that at the time of the release of "Lee Yoon-jin," there was a "directly spoken line," but there was no line at all in the game.
It was an opportunity to add the voice of "Lee Yoon-jin" like "Hak Ji-woon," but I'm just sad that I missed such a good opportunity.※The speed of 'Trixter Hak Ji-woon' has been changed to '4.4m/s' while adjusting the capabilities, but I don't understand if 'Blight' and 'Kaneki' are '4.6m/s' despite their excellent mobility and attack capabilities.
Did you change it to slower speed than 'Blight' and 'Kaneki' because you thought Trickster was really strong?1 -
While the new VFX is a definite improvement, Trickster’s kit feels rather clunky and worse than his Live Version. To accommodate the style system a lot of his basekit was nerfed, which seems rather overkill.
I like the Style System, I think those are buffs that Trickster can keep, however I believe the Haste Increase from the Cut Thru U Single Add-On should be basekit as well.
His base 4.4m/s movement speed makes Map Traversal just that more difficult for Trickster, so it’s harder for him to get close enough to effectively use his power. You should test 4.6m/s & even 4.5m/s.
The 3.68m/s base movement speed that decays to 3.16m/s when throwing knives makes it difficult for him to combo his knives and overall makes him even weaker at loops, when this was a Killer that already struggled at certain ones. Live Trickster’s 3.86m/s was fine & it didn’t have a decay. Maybe make it 4.0m/s that decays to 3.68m/s?
Memento Blades Add-On should be basekit & toggleable. Making QOL locked behind an Add-On should NEVER be a thing.
The reduced knives to 36 can easily be felt, especially when he’s already so slow and Laceration decays faster than in Live. Keep the Live Decay & give him an even 40 Knives.
S Rank shouldn’t increase the Terror Radius, it encourages pre-running and punishes Trickster for reaching the rank. It also pressures players to run Undetectable Perks, which is a detrimental in any other Rank due to Trickster’s Lullaby.
Main Event being deactivated near Hooks makes sense: Trickster benefits a lot when using it as someone unhooks. However, the range of this deactivation is too big & it shouldn’t occur if Trickster is in Chase. I know the developers want to discourage Camping, however this is a bit overboard, especially when you consider indoor maps.
Overall, it seems Trickster’s Weaknesses are accentuated with these changes & his Strengths are dulled. The Top Trickster players may be able to get more value than with current Trickster, but everyone else is going to struggle to match it.
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After playing the PTB a little more there are two addons I to believe to need touching those being the melodious murder and the trick blades the melodious murder is basically useless because you will always be reloading at above B rank or higher the reload speed increase is not noticeable in the slightest instead this add should do something like traps traps do basket give him haste after he finishes reloading at a locker but this should be much stronger than trappers traps seeing as you don’t nearly reload as much maybe like 15% haste for ten seconds which would be exactly double in strength of trappers traps also the trick blades are obsolete even in current and past trickster prime it was a meme add on that only worked with edge of revival album due to the fact that any slight change in the environment or terrain would change the already very unpredictable bounce this add on only incentives spamming I think/belive it should be replaced with burning speaker based on the burning speakers from tricksters lore this would be like the laceration version of the new cut thru you album it would increase the amount until laceration starts fading by .5 seconds for every rank this would not be broken due to the laceration already being nerfed to be faster would allow for more build variety what dbd excels at compared to any other game would be accurate to the lore and would incentive gaining skill points
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(I didn't write this with my own hands, but with the help of a translator app, as English is not my native language, so some words may be strange or unclear. I apologize for that.)
Developers, I've been maining Trickster since 2022, and this update is incredible. You've managed to make Trickster stronger, more enjoyable, more soulful, and more charismatic, and he's finally become an even more skill-dependent maniac. However, there are some nuances. For the sake of objectivity, I'll provide a detailed analysis.
1) The number of knives. This change significantly complicates the game for players who mindlessly hold M2M1, throwing knives in all directions just to hit, which is a good thing. Experienced players who carefully approach the ability of this assassin have also received a weakening, but it's not as significant. It would be fair if the add-on for replenishing knives after the culmination wasn't red. Specifically, I would suggest limiting the number of knives to 32, while incorporating the red add-on into Trickster's base. This proposed change encourages accurate throws and severely punishes mindless use of the ability. However, it doesn't affect good Trickster players.
2) The speed of 4.4. I don't see any issue with this, considering the existence of the "CUT THRU U SINGLE" add-on, which makes Trickster a 4.6 kicker at S rank and a 4.5 kicker at B rank, which can be achieved very quickly. This speed is just right for Trickster to feel comfortable. The add-on is not red but purple, and obtaining it in the bloodweb won't be a problem if you frequently play as a maniac. However, considering the reaction of players to the change in his speed, I believe it would be a wise decision to incorporate this add-on into the base. It's not ideal when an assassin is a victim of a specific add-on. Additionally, without this add-on, the rank-ups don't feel sufficient. I also want to highlight a crucial detail: the add-on also encourages accuracy, punishing mindless use of knives. It's magical. Ranks will be challenging to achieve if you constantly lose knives.
3) Style ranks. With each new rank, the trickster really feels stronger (considering the speed addon). At rank S, his lethality is insane, considering his throw speed and movement speed of 4.6 with the aforementioned addon. The rank reset time is perfect for completing actions to increase the rank. The sounds of rank increase, rank reset, and the trickster's reactions are all well-designed and provide a satisfying experience.
4) Throwing speed. The base speed is enjoyable, and it's great to see the return of the boost.
5) Culmination. The developers' decision to prevent the use of the culmination near a hooked player does not prevent the player from camping the hook, considering the base throw speed at rank S. This anti-mechanic only hinders the ability to replenish knives using the pink addon. The radius is too large, and it's pointless, as this feature heavily punishes the Trickster and provides no assistance to the survivors. There were a lot of moments on the PTB where the survivors were running away from me about 12 meters away from the hook, but I couldn't use the culmination on them, even though I wasn't camping the hook. And when I had to camp, I didn't need the culmination.
As for the speed of the throw during the culmination, it's generally what I need, but I think it could be a bit faster, but it's still fine.
6) The cut scale: it starts to drop off quickly for survivors, which is normal considering how quickly the Trickster can fill it up again. It might be worth slowing it down a bit, but I haven't seen any issues with it.
7) Sound and visuals: the fact that the survivors began to see the climax is magical. How was it implemented? Bad. The purple glow of Trick is ugly. It's enough to add a purple/bright pink "burning" or fog behind it, as it happens during a pressed climax. It will look spectacular and noticeable. What is now on the ptB is bad.
The sound of knives hitting teammates when playing on survival is terrible, because you don't hear the growing sound as the 6th knife approaches. Both the 2nd and the 5th knife sound the same. Because of this, I didn't realize that my teammate's cut bar was almost full on the survivor, which resulted in me not giving him back at the right moment.
8) New lines. The voice actor did a very good job. The only thing is that the old lines stand out among the new ones due to the quality of their recording. Ideally, they should be re-recorded, but again, it's also fine. In general, after playing the "new" Trick for a long time, I stopped noticing the difference between the new and old lines. Maybe it's just a matter of habit? I don't know.
9) Addons: the rework is good. I was very amused by LUCKY BLADE, it's a good idea. The red addons are all strong, as they should be. Naturally, not all addons are useful, but it's almost impossible to make all addons good, so it's okay. The only thing I really hope for is the return of trick knives. As for the "EDGE OF REVIVAL ALBUM" addon, 32 meters is too far away to reach on most maps. To make it playable, the distance should be at least 24 meters. If we continue talking about incorporating "DEATH THROES COMPILATION" into the base, we can replace it with "EDGE OF REVIVAL ALBUM" but reduce the distance to 16 meters. This would make it a good, playable, and powerful addon.
Here are the most useful addons:
1)CUT TRHU U SINGLE
2)DEATH THROES COMPILATION
3)IRIDESCENT PHOTOCARD
4)TEQUILA MOONROCK
5)KILLING PART CHORDS/LUCKY BLADE/DIAMOND CUFFLINKS/TRICK POUCH
I don't consider the others to be useful enough to take them.I think I've covered the most important points. I sincerely hope that the rework will be released, and I hope it will be improved.
You guys have really made me happy and ignited a fire within me. I haven't been able to get out of PTB for days, and I don't want to return to live servers.-2 -
So I will try to be nice and start with some of the aspects of the new Trickster that I like. Trickster is a killer I've always wanted to like because he's an interesting character and I like ranged killers but his power and mechanics have always been extremely boring and bad. I think the Style system is a good addition. It's something unique to Trickster that can feel rewarding when you're doing well so it creates a nice positive feedback loop. It's great in theory, and I think tying basic, boring actions like reload speed to them is a good idea. I really liked that the game could detect hits through small gaps and gave extra reward for that. However, it doesn't FIX anything. It is an addition that's essentially just layered on top of an older version of Trickster with all of its problems still as painful as ever.
Trickster's knives are his main problem and nothing about the issues they cause for both Killers and Survivors has been addressed or even adjusted. For Killers, an individual knife doesn't feel very impactful and you have to hit a lot of them quickly in order to secure a health state. This means that Trickster's knives aren't very good at range, and there's a constant stress to keep using them as your ammo depletes. Playing against a Killer like Huntress or Deathslinger is very fun, IMO, because you have impactful moments in chase dodging shots. 1 shot = 1 health state, so dodging one feels great in a way dodging knives doesn't. But also, since the most consistent way to get injures with Trickster is to take one or two unavoidable knives when you can there never really is this kind of interaction. And the final issue with the knives, Main Event. This has always been a very boring cherry on top of an extremely boring killer power, so it being the final reward of ranking up your Style is very unexciting.
What I was hoping for with this rework was a change to the knives that made them feel impactful for both sides. Personally, I would have preferred for how Trickster throws his knives to be completely reworked. Rather than a machine gun, it should be more like burst fire. Have him throw 3 knives at a time and put a little cooldown on it. Let them bounce off non-floor terrain once at base. Maybe have the bounced hits deal a bit more laceration or give extra style points to reward trick shots, which is something people actually like about this killer. You'd slow down less which would be nice as killer. The fact there wasn't an attempt to change the knives or main event was extremely disappointing and makes this whole effort a waste of time, IMO.
Finally, I didn't like a lot of the new audio. Trickster's new laughter sounds very cartoonish especially the global cue, and the Style sounds were hit or miss as some of them sounded very weird. I also did not like the glowing effect when S rank was reached.
If this goes Live I do not plan on playing as Trickster more because the experience hasn't fundamentally changed, and I certainly won't enjoy playing against him any more than I already do (which is not at all).
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I have mixed feelings about this rework.
Good things:
- Very cool sound design fitting the character
- Helpful UI both on the Trickster and survivor side. I like that you current rank is constantly visible and even though some people find it's placement annoying, I find it helpful. As a survivor you can tell when you get hit by a knife but without the annoying all-over screen effect which was present before the PTB.
- The rank system works better than I expected. I was a little worried about it being hard to level up, as you don't really thing about doing different actions purposefully during the match, but you don't really have to do anything special, because the rank system works more like a little bonus and you can still get to the S rank just by throwing knives. And thanks to this system and new sounds Trickster feels more detailed and has more personality.
- His addons are more interesting and overall better but some still requires change.
- I really like the killer instinct he gets at S rank
- Cool voice lines and animations
Bad things:
- All the nerfs he received to 'balance' his new buffs are unnecessary. He's a low tier killer, he doesn't need nerfs. Especially when killers like Blight and Nurse exist…
- His new speed and huge terror radius at S rank make him suffer a lot from pre-running which is a boring counterplay. And why make him even slower after throwing knives consecutively??? Why is he being punished for using his power??? Meanwhile strong killers don't suffer from this problem. Hillbilly gets rewarded for using his power and Blight has a normal base speed even though he's the second strongest killer in the game. He doesn't need to be 'balanced' this way. The compensation is too small to excuse this speed change.
- Due to the speed changes he feels more like he has been nerfed, not buffed or balanced.
- The crosshair should be an acessibility option available to toggle in settings, not an addon. The same goes for every killer with a range power.
- His terror music should be reworked. I know that it was slightly updated, but in my opinion his terror doesn't go well with him and should be much better as he is a musician.Post edited by subito_piano on1 -
As a Trickster main, I think this is a fantastic update to my favorite killer.
He feels much more skill-based now and ecourages accuracy and dedicating time to learning the killer.
4.4m/s is the right choice if it is between that and nerfing other parts of his kit; 6 lacerations just feel much better overall, it is more rewarding for survivors to dodge blades, and the style ranks are in turn rewarding the Trickster player for landing their blades and making the right decisions on the fly.
I believe only turret players call this a flat nerf, and I hope BHVR will rather listen to the feedback of dedicated Trickster-fans rather than those who're just looking for an easy spam/camp option in the killer roster.
If he went live as he is in the PTB, I'd already be very happy. If you slightly buffed his movement speed during Main Event and get rid of the delay/desync feeling of the PTB (also much smaller knives?) then he'll be in the best spot fun and balance wise he's ever been in.
Good job behaviour! I really hope he makes it to live like that without too many changes. He's so much fun right now.
Edit: Maybe make the Style sound effects something less.. Arcade Machine, and more in tune with the existing sound profile of the game.
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Genuine question, are you suggesting that "turret player" tricksters are OP and need to be tuned down? Is trickster really strong or something and secretly A+ rank? What's wrong with "turret player" tricksters?
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Just realized this post was made, this is probably a more appropriate place to put this:
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i got a few more points to make, last time i promise.
trickster was buffed to 4.6 about 2 years ago. many players who started out in these 2 years do not know that, have no idea he was ever a 4.4, but they bought him. suddenly nerfing him to 4.4 borders on a reason for a refund (or at the very least a lot of frustration). just imagine you buy trickster, you like him, you are fine with him, power is a little meh but you can work with it- suddenly he is nerfed severely in speed and the power stays weak on top of it all, not making up for the nerfed speed. not the killer you once knew. trickster should have never been 4.6 to begin with, all he needed 5 years ago was a fat buff of his bad power. but he is 4.6 now, these changes happened, so here we are. and now we need to work with that. everything else would be extremely unfair to the ones who only know trickster the way he is now on live. basically he needs to become deadlier. that is all there is. he is underwhelming. severely underwhelming. his knives need more kaboom or else he is just an m1 with fancy knives sprinkled on top. who atm requires 8 hits for no apparent reason other than making him an even weaker and painful to play killer. the only other killer who needs to work hard for his power is nemesis, 3 hits for power - 4.6 btw, but even he does not have it as bad as trickster. because unlike him, his power does not decay (too fast on ptb, that still needs a buff). if we wanna avoid the "spamming knives" allegations just give him a huntress-esque cooldown after an injure with his power. and give him 6 knife laceration. justified with this cooldown. plus, the chase music really overpowers the add-ons beat on ptb, let's tone that down a bit. gotta repeat that. it is headache inducing.
i hope you find this helpful in some way. i haven't seen anybody make a cooldown suggestion here so maybe that is food for thought.that's just my take on it.
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I do not think turret tricksters are OP. I believe they are, rightfully so, much weaker on 4.4m/s than a precise trickster, which is why I like the update.
But on live, a mindless knife spammer can get reasonably good results because of higher ammo, constant main event and 4.6m/s to fall back on, and I'm not really ashamed to admit that I want this "easy mode" trickster to disappear.
He will never be A tier, but he doesn't have to be, and still continues to appeal to fewer but more dedicated Trickster players.
I realize that this might sound super elitist, and I'm not pretending I'm "one of the few chosen ones" to play Trickster on a high level, but I do enjoy the learning curve and actually think it's not a bad thing if he becomes more intimidating to try for newer players.
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Thats like the opposite of good game design. You don't want to make content that only few people will attempt. Can you show us videos of you "knife spamming" against good high level survivors? If it were that easy, trickster wouldn't be a rare killer. There's a reason kaneki is so popular, it's because he is easy and he gets easy down. Trickster does not get easy downs.
I'm no Wacek or dedicated trickster main with thousands of hours on one killer. I'm not even a p100, im only p70. I've put A LOT of hours into practice just to get 4ks (against survs who dont do gens lol) and it is not easy to hit your knives. If you spam your knives, you will have to reload after each down and will get 4 outed every match.-1
