Sure... Pallet Density was reverted and it's OK now.

@Balrog Are you able to take this feedback back to the team. At least in terms of this map. It might be worth making a note 📝

Or would you like us to separately post it on Feedback\Suggestions? Happy to help.

I think the bigger problem I have is not only are there just too many pallets, you also get the people trying to gaslight you that

1. there aren't that many pallets

and worst of all

2. They're all small 50/50 loops.

NO THEY ARE NOT. They are full fledged pallet loops. There is no 50/50 there. You cannot get a hit on these pallets that are not tall, so you can't mindgame they just stare you down and they can just infinitely loop around it and you'll never catch up to them.

The game feels terrible.

Hot take but: pallet density was THE WORST THING HAPPENED IN THIS GAME IN YEARS. It changed so many realms for worse that i really wonder what thoughts BHVR had to release that update.

Really, why did BHVR decided to just throw all the balance away of many maps that were okay? Now we are in a situation were there are too many pallets connected to loops that if you are not playing a strong anti-loop killer you will probably will have a very hard time.

Probably Jason will be strong as hell to be a viable killer in such weird balance state of the game.

I agree completely. I said this in another thread, but I began play when they added Circle of Healing, and this is the most difficult killer has ever felt to me.

According to the stats site, I've played over 6700 matches of killer, and 6500 matches of survivor, so I don't consider myself very biased towards either role. In fact historically I've been more sympathetic to survivor pain than killer pain, just because I am a solo queue player and I know how rough it can be out there.

But for the first time ever I actually think killer is more painful to play than solo queue survivor.

BHVR is balancing the game around stats they gather. They do not look at tournament or high skilled SWF play. If they would balance around SWFs, 80% of the survivors would stop to play the game.

It is not a BHVR problem, it is an entilted community problem.

The balance is as it is because killers are tunneling more and more. I have played 10 matches lastly and 8 out of 10 was against a killer tunneling at 5 gens.

I'm a high MMR killer, i mostly play around 3 gening/zoning and i get 8 to 10 hooks on average in pub. Against good SWFs it is extremely hard but i mostly get a ton of hooks WITHOUT tunneling.

If BHVR decreases the pallet density, rebalance the maps/perks to buff killers (balancing around SWFs), killers would still tunnel as hard as they do today.

Why ? Because players are now relying on cheap game design exploit to win. The meritocracy is dead in the current generation of players, they want instant wins without even learning to play so they will proxy-camp and tunnel unless BHVR decides that's a bannable offense.

Camping and tunneling is as cheap as camping a corner in an FPS game, totally ridiculous, uninteresting and unskiller but hey they are high MMR even though they do not play the game at all :)

I have a few comments about this.

Yes, it's true that the game should not be balanced around how nice killers are feeling. This is always a problem I've had with killer discourse in this game. So many people want them to reduce survivor strength so that they "do not have to tunnel" - which implies that they don't want tunneling to be adjusted in any way, they just want the game to be easier for them, and ignores how much stronger they make killers who don't care about not tunneling at all.

HOWEVER. The players should never be blamed for simply playing the game the way it was designed. Especially a PvP game like DBD. Both sides want to win and tunneling is a mechanic that's in the game which is legal, effective, and intuitive. The fact there's this weird code of honor the playerbase is expected to follow is really silly.

At the moment, though, the reverse of what I said in that first paragraph is true. If you've ever tried to tunnel a good survivor before, you'll know that once they realize that you're tunneling them, they start taking way less risks and become far less concerned with conserving map resources. They'll start pre-dropping to make catching them as hard as possible and discourage you from chasing them any further.

Ironically, this behavior used to be correctly demonized if survivors did it while not being tunneled, because selfishly throwing every pallet to preserve yourself regardless of circumstances was a bad play. But now survivors don't need to care about that anymore. That skill expression on survivor, of making risk/reward plays of greeding pallets to preserve them, which objectively made the game more interesting and fun and deep, is being de-emphasized by the number of pallets. Now survivors can genuinely just throw pallets without having to care that much and it's the correct play as long as their team is doing gens.

Thank you for the most valuable sentence here:

Hell I felt it IMMEDIATELY on my first game back from an extensive break away from the game.

This is what is wrong with DBD-players. EVERYTHING is at fault for them performing not as good, except themselves. It is impossible that you might just be rusty if you had an extensive break from the game. No, it must be the game itself which is an issue, otherwise you would have 4Ked easily.

And this thread just shows it once again. We even have a Killer who is winning here, yet a 20 second clip is the big gospel.

This is not a stone I would cast, considering how easily it can be turned back on you.

Why is it the killers who are wrong and not you for thinking it's just the game's fault you don't escape more often?

Well it depends on what killer you main, too.

There are some killers who will struggle more with pallets than others. That's kind of the trouble with discussing balance in this game.

And it's not even a high versus low tier thing, in my opinion. Though low tiers tend to have more trouble with pallets than high tiers. Good killers like Wesker and Ghoul will struggle on pallet dense maps, but someone more mid like Nemesis doesn't care that much as long as he gets out of tier 1 fast enough.

What are you not understanding. It has nothing to do with my play, I am saying I IMMEDIATELY could feel there were more pallets than normal, and when I did more research about changes that had happened while I was gone, lo and behold they had an update that put more pallets on the map. Along with everyone else talking about how many more pallets there are.

You are not the genius you assume yourself to be. What you said has nothing to do with what I said.

There is no "rust" gang, dbd is not some difficult game lmfao.

they dont hide what they play as. I cant doxx anyone, but do some research if you think im making things up

Oh crap I didn't even know they increased the duration of that to 15 seconds. That explains why it feels like it's impossible to catch an unhooked survivor before they make it to a gate.

That's just unnecessary. Adding the endurance status effect to being unhooked was a good change back in the day, since BT was basically a mandatory perk before then. There was nothing wrong with the 10 seconds, 15 seconds is excessive.

I don't really know what to say to someone who is legitimately arguing that buckle up + FTP was ok.

You understand that combo was completely uncountable in many circumstances, right? Like it's not like regular saves where you can try to chase the survivors off.

DS hasn't really been gutted, either.

I'm trying to be respectful, but it was very much a "stopped reading" moment for me, because anyone who argues in favor of FTP+BU is either trolling or so survivor-biased that their opinion doesn't mean anything.

Both the anti-slug and anti-camp systems were egregiously overpowered and hated by the overwhelming majority of the community.

DS is working fine and is debatably the strongest perk survivors have - and that is not a condemnation of other survivor perks.

The DC penalties targeted survivors because there was and kind of still is a survivor ragequitting epidemic. And not because of any balancing reasons, because the community has normalized the idea that it's okay to quit if you don't like the match you're in for any reason.

So the only thing left is like… I guess survivor stealth being nerfed, but even other survivors wanted that because people would abuse stealth perks to rat and avoid ever taking chase at the expense of the rest of their team.