https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/472588/future-of-dead-by-daylight-forums
Matchmaking System Update
Since the release of the 10.1.0 update, which introduced our new MMR system, we've been closely monitoring matchmaking data and player feedback. Many of you have reported matches feeling unbalanced, with players of widely varying skill levels and playtimes being matched together.
The launch of the new MMR system required a global reset to all players' ratings, after which we expected players to quickly settle into ratings that reflected their skill level. Unfortunately, as our players have highlighted, that didn't happen as intended. After investigating, we identified a matchmaking parameter that was unintentionally broadening the range of potential opponents and teammates.
Adjusting Streak Weighting
This parameter relates to win and loss streaks. Originally, consecutive wins or losses would expand a player's matchmaking range, putting them into matches where the amplified impact on MMR would help them reach their appropriate rating more quickly. However, the configuration we used led to an overexaggerated increase in rating variance and a skill mix in matches that was wider than intended. We adjusted this parameter late last week to lower the weight that win and lose streaks have on MMR.
Early results are promising, showing less variance in player skill levels and an improvement in line with our expectations. We'll continue to monitor and validate matchmaking performance throughout the weeks ahead and encourage you to share your experiences here to support our ongoing investigation.
A Reminder on the MMR Reset
It's important to note that some players are still calibrating after the global reset in August. For example, if you haven't played as The Unknown since, your rating is not accurately set to reflect your skill level when playing as that Killer. Your first few matches with The Unknown are likely to feel unbalanced, but you should settle into your natural range. This is the case for each Killer as you progress through the roster.
Looking Forward
This change isn't a silver bullet, but it's an important first step of many toward the matchmaking experience we're working to achieve. The team is actively monitoring how this fix impacts matchmaking over time and is committed to making further adjustments as we investigate longer-term improvements to the system.
We appreciate your patience, and most of all, we appreciate your feedback! It was integral to identify last week's fix. Thank you for being on this journey with us, and we'll keep you informed as our matchmaking system continues to evolve.
Comments
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If winning or losing a lot of times should broaden the matchmaking range, this does not sound like something which was "unintentionally broadening the range of potential opponents and teammates". More like something which worked as intended, but you did not realize that this would also imply that a player who wins a lot of times and is very good will get weaker and weaker opponents, the more they win. Which is basically what was the issue with the MMR Reset, we have seen Streamers go on insane winstreaks, because they faced brand new Survivors.
But hopefully this is now fixed, but to be fair, you dont need to be a game Dev to see that widening the range of potential opponents will lead to errors, even if I completely understand the intention that someone winning a lot should get more stronger opponents and someone losing a lot should get a lot weaker opponents, but both can work in the other range as well, if there is no limit. Which happened.
Will monitor if it got better. A few days ago my SWF mate and myself got a Wraith with only a fraction of our hours followed by KnightLight, a comp player. Which was pretty odd, maybe it is better now.
Sadly there will be no appropiate place to give more feedback anymore if the Matchmaking is working or not.
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To be honest I kinda liked the chaotic, wild west match-making of the first week of MMR reset. But then we went straight into 2V8, so I've not touched 1V4 since. Anyway, I think it made the games feel a bit closer to event match-making to me. That said, I might be in a minority for preferring it that way and I can see such a system being a frustration to the more competitive players out there. I'd personally take no match-making at all over a system that you guys say is in place but barely seems to work at all.
Now that 2V8 is over, I'll guess I'll have to play some games over the next week or so to see what feels different.
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Definitely do let us know if you notice any changes (or heck, if you don't notice a change, as that's equally valuable) in matchmaking. We're keeping a close eye on this so we can keep the team working on it informed.
As for the note about sharing feedback, I totally get the frustration about the Forums closing. While the forums have always been an important piece of the collecting feedback puzzle (and speaking personally, they were first place I got to know the DbD community!), we take feedback from across the other DbD channels just as seriously.
I'd love to know, though, what would your ideal method of sharing feedback look like? We're always open to rethinking and adjusting how we go about thinks like gathering feedback, so I'm always down to hear!
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I can't speak for Aven but I think my ideal method of sharing feedback would be a more direct form of communication without restricting character limits that allows for long-form feedback, in an environment where members use the platform specifically to discuss the state of the game. You know, like a forum of sorts.
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Having less variance in player skills levels overall sounds better in theory, but with how often this MMR system was complained about, whether or not this is actually the case remains to be seen.
Well, we will see it now that 2v8 is over and we are returning to the regular queue, at least until the Halloween event I presume.
Might be the last matter that we will be able to properly give feedback about, considering soon there won't be a good way of doing so.
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This MMR reset felt like it wasnt progressing at all before I dropped 1v4 for 2v8, and I had played at least 100 matches in each role. How long is it supposed to take?
I also don't feel like there's much of a point giving feedback anymore. Am I going to drop my opinion on MMR in a Discord channel where it gets immediately buried by cat pictures and memes?
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Out of interest, have you played 1v4 since the weekend? I'd be interested to know if you're noticing any difference in the quality of your matchmaking compared to your time pre-2v8. Given the number of matches you've played, I would expect you should be encountering matches that more closely reflect your skill level by now.
And I totally hear your concerns about feedback on Discord. While I know it's not the same, over the coming weeks, we will be opening a Discord channel that's more in line with a forum experience because we want to make sure long-form conversations have an organized space.
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I haven't. I will be back to play killer tonight but with the way things are changing now and in the near future I don't intend to play any solo survivor moving forward, so I won't have anything to say about that matching.
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I'm not trying to be rude here. Have you ever actually participated in a Discord server that uses the threads in an attempt to have longer conversations? It really is no where near close to the format of forums and really is not a good replacement. It is still Discord format that is unappealing and overall still not good for discussions, especially when coming from using forums.
Just simply following a conversation here when someone quotes someone else I can see the entire previous text. On Discord if someone is responding directly to someone else I can only see part of the previous persons first sentence. I need to click on that little preview to be pulled up to where ever that comment was made and then scroll all the way back down to where I was in the conversation. It is much easier/user friendly on the forums to catch up and keep track of the conversation. That is just one issue and it's an issue on small servers, it'll be worse on a large server with 800k members. Discord format is great if you want a chatroom, it's terrible if you are looking for forum type discussions.
I just think maybe it would've been a better plan to have this proposed section of Discord up and running first because right now I think you're throwing out a great resource (forums) for something you think looks good on paper (discord "forum"). At the very least if you had something currently usable you could let people try it and give feedback here instead of "use it or sucks for you" that we currently have going for us.
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Yeah I love cats but posting feedback and them being in the same area doesnt really work lol. Same with reddit with all the memes. So many memes.
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I won several games as survivor and yet I got matched against Blight 24/7 with full slowdowns and double speed, which well is what people at high ranks play. But how come I'm in team with people who have 20hrs and do adepts? I don't get it. I have escape rate of about 52 % but those are mostly luck on my side.
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Out of how many matchs though? And how much of your ER is altered by abandoning?
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I'd love to know, though, what wouldyourideal method of sharing feedback look like? We're always open to rethinking and adjusting how we go about thinks like gathering feedback, so I'm always down to hear!Ideal method? Probably something where people could make long form posts and reply to each other. It would help if recent comments where bumped to the top. Maybe even a little thumbs up system for people to express agreement instead of commenting. I think having different sub categories would also be helpful to focus discussions around things like the PTB. Different forums if you will. Oh, and if it had BHVR Official on it, that would make it much clearer.
Sorry, I know that's snarky and this isn't your decision, but those of us who like the forums like them because of exactly what they offer. You're saying feedback, we're saying discussions. For things like the matchmaking problems, anything would probably work to express frustration, but there's a lot more possibilities in a game like DbD. If something new comes out and some players like it and some players don't, sure BHVR might want to know 70% like/30% dislike, but it helps for the players to actually discuss what they like or dislike which makes it clearer what, if anything, needs to be addressed.
Discord that seems impossible. Reddit and Steam, which ones? I don't expect those to be official or have any anticipation that BHVR is looking at them and need to find the right ones.
Steam is probably the closest to these forums and once its open its clear to the user that BHVR has people there. Maybe I'm just attached to this design, but it looks like a step backwards (also strange for the many people not on Steam to use the Steam forums).
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400 matches total. Escape rate 52 %, abandons don't count. Even after that the matches are nowhere near consistent, neither were before update. I mean, once 2v8 ends I'll hop back onto killer.
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400 survivor matches in the last month?
Abandons remove the match from your stat history, and since they basically always happen when you're about to die they inflate your visible ER becuase you're deleting many of your failures. Your real number is probably more like 40-45 if you're abandoning.
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Yeah, I played mostly survivor in last month due to insanely long queues. Makes sense. In the end the next update will be probably me not playing solo survivor anymore due to all the misunderstanding from BHVR. From nerf to Dissolution, STB, Windows to weird rework to Road Life which will in BHVR last fashion heavily impact high levels and swf while will be very weak if useable in low mmr. But their anti solo q anti begginer updates are kinda forcing me to not enjoy the killer either as much as I used to because the matches become somewhat boring. The same 4 perks on survivors and it will remain because all the meta shakeup for survivors were healing and begginer friendly perks which is pretty boring and won't make game not feel stale.
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I won't be playing solo either, because of the survivor nerfs. Killer is probably going to get too easy, and the wait times are going to be long because of that. Add in the MMR reset making things even weirder and the game is in an unappealing spot right now in all ways. I would have rather just stayed in 2v8 where the chaos lacks the competiveness.
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Others have said it already, but it's a bit silly to ask us what our ideal method for leaving feedback is...right before most of us lose our ideal method for leaving feedback.
After the Forums go down I probably just won't be leaving feedback. I don't use Social Media aside from YouTube and as much as I love this game you cannot make me use Reddit or Twitter, and Discord just never really clicked with me and the way I peruse the internet. Unless you're checking the bottom barrel of random DBD influencers comments (please don't be doing that), you won't be hearing my thoughts.
Essentially, BHVR has killed my outlet for expressing my love for this game, and that's heartbreaking.
I've read these forums for 6 years, over a quarter of my life. I've followed this game since 2016, half of my life. Sunken hundreds of dollars into this game, and probably wrote over a hundred thousand words of feedback over the years, and a closed, wiped forum is how BHVR commemorated 10 years of DBD.
Am I being dramatic? Yes. Am I ever going to forget this? No.
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@ThatRyanB
After investigating, we identified a matchmaking parameter that was unintentionally broadening the range of potential opponents and teammates. Was this also resolved with lobby dodging? where back fill takes priority over filling slot with correct skill level.
play alot, too much honestly but I think the MMR system is trying to work and do a good job, one of the biggest pain points still tho is that people can lobby shop around leading to these unbalanced matches once someones dodges.
Is there any plans for team to address chronic lobby shoppers? The matchmaking system can be flawless but if the system still works as "back-filling takes priority" needs to be strict backfill, and if people are still dodging too much dodging should be made not possible or penalties like going next mid match gives you.6 -
I wonder if the the rate that MMR changes is overtuned.
I won 2 games in a row, the second being an Iridescent Devout Emblem because Wraith couldn't catch me (the rest of the team died) and all of a sudden I am going up against godly Nurses, Spirits and sweatlord killers when all I want to do is progress my challenges. And maybe have a bit of fun but I guess I am asking for too much.
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The mmr is still broken. Wdym i have 2 good matches as the pig then it pairs me with people who are overly coordinate and have over 10k hours. I barely even had an hook the whole match. I just want to have some fun. Not to sweat or stay overly stressed every match to have at least 1k. Im not saying to be paired with baby survivors, but i want an match where i can take a normal chase and to not lose 2 gens in 30 sec. The old mmr wasnt the best, but wasnt like this neither.
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That's kind of my issue with the game atm. If I don't take newbies teammates into account, I keep versing Blights and Ghouls with corrupt, pan res, pop and eruption like 95 % of the game. Feels like comp tournament even when I play killer I get coordinated teams playing very well even if I play killers I play once in a year.
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I'd love to know, though, what would
yourideal method of sharing feedback look like? We're always open to rethinking and adjusting how we go about thinks like gathering feedback, so I'm always down to hear!I think the Forums are the ideal way of giving feedback. They provide good overview and you can have a lot of different topics right next to each other without any conflict. The other options:
- Steam Forums —> Well, they exclude a huge part of the community. Also they are kinda dead. And honestly, if I would want to use the Steam Forums, I would have done it already, since I am on Steam.
- Reddit —> Probably the closest to the current Forums, but I dont really feel it. I feel the Reddit Community is pretty different from the Forum Community and there are far more extreme opinions compared to the Forums. Sure, you have people here who never touched the other side, but I feel that this is way more common on Reddit.
- Discord —> Is just not a tool for discussions. You write something and when you send it, it is gone in seconds. I am on a few Discord Servers and even those with 10 or less people get annoying when it comes to following things, if a lot of people write. With the DBD Discord, it will just be even more. You will have people discuss on different topics in the same place, this is not really something where you can actually talk about game-related things.
- Twitter —> Probably the worst. Character limit and extremely weird community. If you want to write feedback, you will need several posts and you are in between "Add X to DBD!" and "I play as Perkless Trapper and lost, buff all Killers" or "Bring back Old DS!"…
I mean, it is not your decision to close the Forums, but I think it is really bad that the OFFICIAL Forums are closing down and I dont really see the point of it. Sure, there are less people here, but as I said in another post, this is also due to the Warning and Ban System.
Maybe others will look at Reddit or Discord to provide feedback, but all those options are not for me.
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For the folks who have taken the time to give me your candid thoughts on what really matters to you about sharing feedback (even though I know my question was a little off-topic - sorry!), seriously, thank you so much! There's no one-size-fits-all solution that works for everyone, but this helps us make sure we're focusing our attention in the right place when we're looking at what we can do to support folks moving forward.
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I can absolutely take note of this for the team! Out of interest, did you continue to run into matches that felt lopsided after this one, or did it feel like a one-off before swinging back to matches that felt more in-line with your own experience?
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Even after many loses in a row i keep continue to run into same type of matches. Based on my experience i keep continue to bump into more skilled players even after i lose. Is like my mmr doesent change at all. And this happens on every killer i want to play, a match or 2 is normal. Then i bump into those type of squads.
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Very much noted! Now, one more question to help get a read on the situation - when you say you're switching to another Killer, is this a Killer you've played quite a few matches with since last month's MMR reset, or is this a Killer you haven't played since the reset?
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Interesting! I've been running into much longer loss streaks the past few days. After losing 5 games in a row I would hope my mmr would adjust to put me into a game where I have a fighting chance. I just assumed I blow at DBD, but this thread makes me consider if it isn't all me being horrible because if the game does have mmr it should adjust it to put me with similar-skilled people after realizing I can barely ever win at a certain level right..
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