to all people saying "nurse basekit is fine"

######### are you talking about

This debate has already been done and those on the other side of it from me chose double-standards. Killers have had 'dynamic' use of multiple mechanics working in tandem labelled as 'exploits' which justified intervention from the devs and the threat of bans. The exact same standards do not apply to survivors when they loop or body-block; they get different ones.

The only difference between looping 'forever' and looping with a pallet-crutch is nothing, in practice. Looping forever only existed on-paper, or else someone somewhere would still be looping. The issue was not that it could last indefinitely, but that it could last the entire match: something which pallet-looping exactly replicates.

I've explained to you in summary what happened. I haven't made it 'sound like' anything. If you want more detail I can provide it, but my summurising has been accurate and not embellished in the slightest.

You are of course, still talking about a different subject to the one I pulled you up on: that of the misrepresentation of the game's post-release development. It can not at all be characterised as playstyles existing now simply because players learned them; survivors actively lobbied for the one never-changing playstyle which they prefer and the devs have for the most part given them everything they asked for. Not only that, but they gave them it usually in the specific form that they asked for.

The closest killers have ever got to getting this is when hatch-closing was introduced, but the devs couldn't give us it like that: they only put it in the live-build alongside removing the whole point why we had been requesting it in the first place. Now survivors are getting free unearned escapes and still hold games hostage.

Don't give me opinions I don't have and haven't expressed just because you can't deal with the ones I have.

@ArecBalrin "This debate has already been done and those on the other side of it from me chose double-standards. Killers have had 'dynamic' use of multiple mechanics working in tandem labelled as 'exploits' which justified intervention from the devs and the threat of bans. The exact same standards do not apply to survivors when they loop or body-block; they get different ones."

Because looping and body blocking are not exploits. If a survivor body blocks the killer, the killer can just hit them. If a killer body blocks a survivor, there is literally nothing they can do. If done in a corner, the survivor is effectively trapped in the game forever unless they DC. The fact that each side has different mechanics is why this is treated differently.

As for looping, you even said yourself the devs labeled infinites as EXPLOITING and then changed it so it doesn't exist. And yes there is a huge difference between an infinite and a finite loop. How you think they are the same is baffling honestly.

It just sounds like you are a pissed off killer main that only sees the changes to killers as negative and ones to survivors as positive. The fact you have this grudge against looping, which is the basis of the game even from the beginning, shows how little you actually understand the game. Like explain to me what you would want survivors to do? Explain to me how you would make it so that you can't waste a killers time by running in a circle. You can't, not unless you outright remove pallets and windows. Oh you would change the collision boxes? All that does is shorten the loops, it doesn't get rid of it.

Also there is nothing "misrepresented" about the game's post release development. Changes have been made on BOTH sides to balance the game. You bring up hatch closing, well the original mechanic wasn't good enough. It was too oppressive, probably because it just meant FREE KILL for killers. And it was, to say anything else is just biased. So the devs went and came up with EGC, which is arguably a more fair solution (though one that still favors killers). DS changes took a while too, and the end result is one that made it way WAY better for killers (which if you still have a problem with DS then I really have nothing else to say to you).

"Free unearned escapes" like really dude? REALLY?? You need to 4k that bad every game? You can close the hatch, so to say survivors still take the game hostage is just a lie. They sort of can when there are more than 1 of them and they just refuse to do gens, but again that's just a flaw in the design. Eventually that will get fixed too I'm sure.

You're ducking and diving.

Body-blocking is arguably not an exploit because the killer can do something about it; it doesn't matter what that something is, they can do it. By the same standards, survivors have had body-blocking by the killer in regards hook-interactions labelled and dealt with as a malicious exploit. The standards being applied to different sides, are different. It was explained at the time and repeatedly ever since how these things are directly equivalent, but the devs stand by their double-standards, as do survivors.

The devs applied the reasoning that a killer can hold the game hostage. This is not what they were doing though when face-camping at a hook though; it had the same viable counter as normal camping, yet was included in the explanation given for how they were(inconsistently) defining exploits that could incur punishments. Now that EGC exists, the killer can't actually hold the game hostage indefinitely whilst the clock is ticking, yet the streamer Vinc3Vega reported someone for exactly this last month, using his own back-channel rather than the in-game system. He seemed very certain it was the case and has an excellent working relationship with BHVR.

I did not say the devs labelled infinites as exploits: they were being told for weeks and kept making excuses to do nothing. They eventually did because they were forced to; it was absurd. When they finally realised why looping itself around anything was a problem, they are obvlivious to the differences in collision and apparently willfully so. They had pulled up a picture on livestream of Meg and the Trapper, with the wire-frame for the collision-capsule revealed for comparison, even though they could have looked at the circumference values for an accurate telling; they tried to stay ambigious about it.

"You bring up hatch closing, well the original mechanic wasn't good enough. It was too oppressive, probably because it just meant FREE KILL for killers. And it was, to say anything else is just biased."

And I leave you with: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Calling him a "pissed off killer main" is the double standards he is talking about all along. Everyone here that hates Nurse Sally are pissed off their usual 'loop here until he throws the pallet, then run to another loop' does not work on a particular killer.

And survivors really need to loop and escape every single game? A person would think diversity is a good thing but not in DBD apparently. Gotta play every match exactly the same way lol

That's just rephrasing the same thing I was criticising.

I expect someone who has won thousands of games with the Nurse to be able to articulate why they think anything about the Nurse. This is why some normal adults are dumber than a lot of normal children: the adults can't remember most of the days of their lives, so having more of them doesn't help them against kids who can.

An expert is listened to because they can give a superior explanation on their subject of expertise, not simply because they're an expert.

@ArecBalrin

"Getting frustrating now: yes they could. The counter to face-camping was the same as the counter to normal hook-camping. Survivors refused to do it, as usual."

No you couldn't counter it because you couldn't save the guy. SMH

Doing gens is not a counter when it's literally impossible to make a save.

"Also, EGC did not take long: they literally came up with it within a few weeks after the PTB for hatch-closing. They did not want to give killers what we had expressly and notably requested without a sting in the tail."

Do you understand what iterative design is? Of course not. EGC is the end result of a lot of design and testing, part of which was the hatch close PTB.

"You've derailed enough."

I'm not the one sitting here making ridiculous claims that the devs just do whatever survivors want, have some sort of imaginary double standard for killers, or complains about what are the core dynamics of the game.

Stealth. There's perks in the game for it too. It's a game mechanic too :)

If it's unfair for Nurse to blink, it's unfair for you to go so fast!

That's not a counter because it's impossible to save the guy. Like the option doesn't even exist. How is this so hard to understand?

Oh god, in that case your basement is the most OP thing in the game no lie! Nobody gets out of there alive!

Well done, you've now reached the point where you have to start inventing opinions for me rather than responding to what I've actually said.

The issue is not what, the issue is why; you already know this, but your purpose in replying is not debate.