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So you still have no ability to down a survivor, just no terror radius and red stain, and abit faster movementspeed. Did I understand that right?

@UlvenDagoth

Already read everyting, but I honestly (its obviously my opinion) I dont like both ideas, no offence! I can totally understand why ppl would play and like those changes. Buffing the current Legion or a kind of "gang" ability to summon other Legion members. But how I said back then, having no Terror Radius in chases doesnt help alot against good survivors especially in swf and is not that fun compared to heavy chase abilitys such as, Spirit, Huntress, Billy, Nurse, Demogorgon etc.

I personally loved the old Legion for the heavily chase ability, it was really fun and requiered some skill, yes you had a skillcap with Legion, even if you dont believe, if not then you never played old Legion or never played against good survivors. I personally preffer a reupdate to the old Legion with some buffs and healthy changes for both sides, the "missing hit and losing the power" is a really good fit to the old Legion because you didnt care if you deplete the power because it will recharge anyway really fast and you can use it whenever you wanted. I already made a own discussion about this topic so I will not explain everything there.

All Killers with such a Ability are bad or unplayed because they are extremly unfun, Trapper (rng), Clown, Leatherface, Old Freddy and now Old Legion.

I hope you can understand me and my view, but still your changes are nice and are well balanced.

@UlvenDagoth

Well I cant honestly understand why ppl hated Legion, even my best friend that is survivor main over 2k hours says that he s completly fine with old Legion and misses them. And on the old Legion you had no issue catching survivors with frenzy even with a big Terror Radius, only the old Legion has a issue with that, because of a even bigger TR compared to the old Legion and waaaaay slower movementspeed.

being able to down survivor on your 3 hit in FF will fix tuneling and make you want to spread it

@UlvenDagoth

Made that Legion rework thread you asked for. Happy reading.

I believe a good reasonable buff would be the following:

1. 3 sec fatigue (4 seconds base)

2. Pins proc on first hit (2nd now)

3. Swap out increased KI range for speed add-ons (example <slightly>0.02 <moderately> 0.06 <tremendously> 0.1)

4. Buff fume Mixtape: increase vault speed <window> 1.00 second (1.15 seconds base, max 0.95 seconds) <pallet> 1.20 seconds ( 1.35 seconds base, max 1.05).

5. Frank's Mixtape (Now see blood or scratch marks also hitting a survivor affected by DW applies Hindered <2-5%> repair/heal speed debuff).

6. Stab Wounds Study: removes 10 seconds from DW timer (5 seconds base).

7. Hitting an already DW survivor applies hemerage effect until fully healed.

Tl;Dr only slightly changes are needed.

Honestly Legion was, without any doubt, pretty broken at release, but what the devs have done to them has been less of a balance for them, and more of an overkill reaction to the communities complaints. Don't get me wrong, many of the complaints against Legion were well founded, and I wouldn't go so far as to give them back their previous abilities, but a nice middle ground that makes their power a threat again would be welcomed in my book.

I have read your suggestions, and while I like them, I feel it's probably better to start smaller on things to try and make the Legion more viable. For this I'll offer my own 2 suggestions:

1. Give Legion back their previous movement and vaulting speeds. In the current build the Legion only benefits from afflicting DW to survivors if they can effectively chain the affliction to multiple survivors on the team. This is impossible in most circumstances currently, due to their slower movement and vaulting speeds, which give survivors far too much wiggle room to evade the Legion until their power runs out. The original version of the Legion still had this problem, but a good player could manage to get all 4 on a mid sized map before their power ran out. This emphasized skill and incentive to try for the 4 hits because it was a possibility with the right add-on's. Current Legion however only does this when the map is very small, or if every survivor is focusing on the same gen, but even then, they typically only hit 2 at the most due to survivors scattering like cockroaches as soon as the first one is struck. Current Legion moves at 5 m/s while in frenzy, whereas old Legion moved at 5.25m/s. Old Legion also Vaulted at the same rate survivors did, but current Legion Vaults at .5 seconds slower than they do, or at the same rate Bamboozle grants to a killer. Comparatively, Old Legions main advantage was the ability to catch up and keep up with survivors, but they also had a 2 second cooldown to slow them down, with that currently increased to 4 seconds, I see no reason why they need to be any slower in Frenzy.
2. Reduce the Deep Wounds timer from 30 seconds, to 10. When Legion was changed the Devs already did enough to reduce the Deep Wounds Status effect from a threat to being completely non-threatening, simply by making the timer pause whenever in the killers TR, and making it pause again while the survivor mends. The fact that it retained its 30 second timer is a grossly unjustified at this point. The TR pause alone already killed the possibility of a Legion player "Moonwalking" to allow the timer to bleed them out, but the pause on the mend timer... seriously? As if a survivor outside of the Legions TR and thus out of immediate danger isn't going to immediately start mending? If the timer were 10 seconds instead of 30, survivors would have to pay much more attention to the DW status, and be much more vigilant to mend as soon as they are out of the TR. The Franklin's Mix tape also could benefit in this effect if it reduced the timer by 5 second, which would make a 2 hit + 4 second stun much more worth while if the survivor left the killers TR, and thus make the add-on significant;y more useful than it currently is (by my calculations, to down a survivor with the current FMT add-on, Legion would need to relentlessly pursue and keep striking a survivor for 80+ seconds). IMO, This would make the DW status effect a threat again, and TBH, that is what the Legion really needs right now... to have a power that is either more beneficial to their map control, or a dire and looming threat to survivors affected by it at all times.

There's my 2 cents on the initial and minor buffs I believe the devs should test in an upcoming PTB in order to try and bring Legion more viability than they currently have. It's not much, but the way I see it, Legions game mechanics have always been on a knifes edge since day one. Sway only a little from 1 side to the other and you go from being pathetic to OP or vice versa. Finding a balance with that is really tricky, and doing it right means taking small steps... to that end I feel that either of these minor changes are a good place to start.