Rip PH
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Again, literally none of that matters if survivors can easily avoid the hit.
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That’s not true though. Not only have you still got the advantage of free hits at Aniston locks but there are many situations where you can use it well. Why don’t we just wait till these changes are released, play a lot of pp head and judge then. Remember he can still bait outside of windows and pallets.
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Actually technically the Nurse has less counter than any other killer. You put a safe pallet between you and spirit, thats a counter. You put an obstacle between you and deathslinger, thats a counter.
With Nurse you're hoping on the killer missing. That's it. Yes she's easier to make her miss attacks than other killers which is why there is less complaints but technically she has no counter other than wiggling around and backtracking and hoping the killer misses or loses sight of you.
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spirit is better than nurse and not even spirit can compete vs top teams
yes devs nerfed killers that cant compete with top survivor teams multiple times
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You need to hit your target for your ability to see use. A range limit is usually the trade off for ph. Tr trade is relatively negligible considering a 32 meter tr and a 48 tr means no difference since the heads up of 32 meters is more then enough time to set up your looping route. Shooting through walls suffer from a range disadvantage with add on's desperately required to go for midrange shots. His punishment attack cannot travel on surfaces like stairs unless it has a straight path through the ground or its a straight path. His wider collision mean's nothing if the warning of the impending attack is blatantly telegraphed on the ground. Go into a kyf with a good survivor player and test a only punishment PH see how easy it is to land the hit because the ownes is heavily on the survivor dodge you have no input on improving its speed via charging the attack. When you compare ph to huntress he inferior in nearly every way the only thing you got going for you is the ability to potentially ignore ds and 115% ms which isn't good enough.
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Well you shouldn't be comparing them because that's where this whole argument gets caught up. PP heads power is more to help in chase rather than carry him in chase. Remember he can still do all the mindgames a normal 115 percent killer can but he has this extra ability. Huntress on the other hand relies on her hatchets and thus they need to be stronger, because she would be nothing without them. Can you imagine if pp head's attack was as strong as huntress's? Also just don't use ur power at long ranges its not hard to catch up when you are 115%.
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Their stated reason for reducing the cooldown for POTD is because killers felt the existing cooldown was too punishing. They are not ignoring the killer side.
I agree there are plenty of things in this game that are frustrating for killers to deal with. DS and Adrenaline both drive me crazy when playing killer, to the point where I rarely run them as survivor. None of that has anything to do with tweaking Pyramid Head, though. They can't fix all of the problems in the game in one patch. All they can do is continue to make improvements over time.
If they actually end up nerfing Pyramid Head to the point where he's weak, which would make no sense given the proposed changes, he could certainly get picked less. The idea is to make him more fun for both sides without making him weaker, though. If the devs succeed, there is no reason for him to get picked less.
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Yeah, I don't think there's any question he's very strong right now. Strong is fine, though, provided chases are interactive and both sides have ample opportunity to let their skill shine through. I really enjoy playing against Huntresses and Nurses, for example, even though both are strong, because there's ample opportunity to extend chases with good play. Hopefully Pyramid Head can get there too.
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When you refer to him as "PP head" it kind of gives off an air of bias to your argument.
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Hard agree, tbh. I love playing against a good huntress. It's such a hard game and there are so many mindgames to it; I usually learn something from them. PH? Nah. Spam M2 and profit. Easier to pull off than the stand still 2 win aspect of Spirit.
Post edited by SunderMun on2 -
You can't counter his power by pre-dropping pallets unless you're dropping them so early that he's out of POTD range. If you stay in the loop after throwing the pallet, many loops will be entirely within reach of POTD, meaning he can just rotate around it and you're right back in the lose/lose. You'll be forced to vault the pallet and when you do that's a hit. If you don't stay in the loop, though, he can usually just walk right around the tile without losing much distance, so you basically just burned a pallet for no reason.
If the tile is so safe that he's really forced to break the pallet (e.g. god pallet), sure, that'll counter him... except there are very few pallets that strong regardless of map. Getting such little mileage out of pallets that safe is usually a recipe for disaster.
The only real counter to him is to split up and rush gens, like for all killers. In the chase you just need to hope he's bad.
This has nothing to do with SWF and OoO. That's just pointless whataboutism.
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There's just an increased cooldown before he can M1 again after placing a trail. He is not being forced to use POTD every time he lays a trail.
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Lmao that’s literally jut a nickname which many people give him. You think I’m gonna stop calling him that when he gets changed?
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Cool not so bad then. I rarely use his ranged attack anyway as I prefer using STBFL on him. It's not a ridiculous 10 second cool down or something is it?
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We don't know the numbers on the cooldown changes, but the PTB drops tomorrow so we'll see very soon! The devs did say they're not intending to nerf him, so hopefully the nerf and buff come out in the wash and he's just more fun to play as/against.
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Fun to play As would mean getting rid of the flashing HERE! HE IS AIMING HERE! PRESS D SO YOU DON'T GET HIT! lines that shoot out before the attack launches. Telegraphing a slow attack with sound, time, and vision is bad design and makes the attack literally useless against GOOD survivors.
Instead they slow him down even more and will probably give survivors time to jump the window or get a second loop in.
I don't care if they get rid of pallet hits but they need to make the power fun to use and actually require skill on the survivors side or a bad read by the killer to dodge.
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His attack isn't really dodgeable reactively on my typical ping. Maybe if I'm on the very edge of the attack area, I'm near the very end of its range, and my view isn't obstructed. Maybe. Other than that I've pretty much only had luck guessing when the PH is going to attack and dodging preemptively.
I've tried to math it out, but the wiki doesn't provide enough information to determine travel time of his attack. All it says is that there's a .033 second (2 frame) delay between each "attack trail element", but it doesn't say how many attack trail elements exist in the POTD trail, what their hit boxes look like, etc.
At any rate, this is very much exaggerating how easy his power is to dodge. It's just not smart for killers to try it when they're not confident they can get a hit right now because a miss is pretty punishing. This is aimed at addressing that by reducing the punishment for missing.
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I have 25 ping so my gameplay would be different to yours. If these dev's are balancing with ping in mind then i need to get a VPN and play at 100 ping all the time.
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Ah, I'm usually in the 70-150 range depending on the match. Now I'm really curious to know more about the POTD travel time :D
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I played a game with huntress late at night and the game put me on a server with 100 ping. it was the easiest game i have ever played with her.
Survivor vaulted and moved out of sight? still got the hit. Throw where the survivor is instead of where they will be? get the hit... It was stupid.
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Sorry, but whate the devs say and what they actually do are two, completely unrelated, things. Just look at Billy: that stupid cooldown system was allegedly "not intended as a nerf," and yet good luck not overheating against a decent team.
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I 100% believe the devs would nerf a killer who isn’t great (see the multitude of pig nerfs). They don’t know their game.
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Billy's overheat is an absolute non factor tbh. I've played him at least a dozen times since the changes dropped and I have yet to overheat my chainsaw, even when it feels like I'm using it heavily. I feel like you'd basically have to be trying to overheat it to manage it, or facecamping with chainsaw raised. His add-ons were definitely nerfed, but I think that was the intention. His charge time reduction add-ons were extremely strong before.
At least wait for the PTB before complaining about something that hasn't happened yet.
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I tend to do pretty well as huntress. Maybe that's why :P
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You're forgetting that his turning on POTD is very limited, so if he chases you to the vault he has to stop a few meters before reaching the pallet to aim, that's the only time PH has an actual 50/50.
Anyway, I really hope they get rid of the trails, making his power based on reads rather than based on zoning would make it so much more fun imo.
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It's funny because Pyramid Head got absolutely trashed in Hexy's Tournament.
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To be fair, the first iteration of the overheat mechanic meant that he basically couldn't use his chainsaw at all. I do think it's fair now, however.
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True, but then again, the point of the PTB is to know when to tweak things like that! I definitely agree it's in a good place now at any rate.
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Yeah, that's very true! The Ghostface PTB was the first ever instance that gave me hope for the dev team; how they took on the feedback to make him actually playable.
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Yea because killers aren't going to complain about being able to get hit's against survivors, are they? lmao
You know what they did complain about? Not being able to use POTD during chase because it slows you down too much when used, guess what they changed? :O
It's almost as if they addressed a complaint from both sides and didn't lie.
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I would write an entire essay on why this is actually a step in the right direction for PH, but I've already done that several times, so..
Just hit Punishment shots 4head.
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And yet there are many here saying the cooldown was the least of his issues?
People wanted a better attack where they could use skill, not just “oh its a short cooldown now so I’ll spam it over and over again until I get the hit”
Have you not seen that there are plenty of people saying they’re going in the wrong direction?
but of course PH op.
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Ignorant PHeads malding over a change that the devs themselves admit was not how he was intended to be abused
I've explained plenty of times how this is a positive change but the "survivor bad" logic will never stop, so instead, stay mad
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So you think they should have just changed his power completely? What kind of stellar ideas do you have that wouldn't take away from the theme of the chapter or be similar to something we already have?
and issues pertaining to characters are subjective, someone could have easily thought that cooldown was a major issue to their enjoyment of PH, you don't get to tell them this isn't an issue worth addressing because there are other issues.
and there are plenty of people who think this is the right direction, what exactly are you trying to prove here? That you think your opinion, and the opinion of a select few are more important than other opinions? cool.
"but of course PH op"... yep, that's... definitely what I said, good job buddy.
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I bet you use the pussy build, like adrenalin, decisive strike, deadhard and borrowed time all toped off with either a flashlight or toolbox with a brand-new part
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Nobody is saying change it completely we’re saying change it in other ways too.
I see more voices here calling for other improvements rather than cooldown. People that play survivor dont really care as long as the m2-m1 phase lasts longer. So what are all our opinions meant to be disregarded because a few say otherwise? Works both ways.
You play Spirit so I don’t even know where this is going. She’s way more lethal in a chase than PH ever was.
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Please do tell me all the other ways they should change it to make it balanced.
"other improvements" you can't just have it all, changing a killers power and giving it all positive buffs is not a way to balance the game, and no, I didn't even come close to saying disregard what other people say, you're the one saying that a cooldown isn't an answer to what people want, not me.
Also, what do you mean I play spirit? I barely even touch her, her and hag are probably my least played killer, I mostly play Huntress/Pig/Plague, and even if I did play spirit, what point would that even make? Oh yaaaa, I forgot people like to try and dismiss others based on how they play the game, sounds like a weak attempt to invalidate what someone is saying, good one champ, keep it up.
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Nobody said positive buffs only. Changing the M2-m1 transition, but improving either the turning, travel speed, hitbox, or even killer instinct effect. There is a number of things that could have been tinkered with. Not saying ALL of them but maybe just one.
You used to play spirit then. It’s not to invalidate you its just saying that its nerfing something that isn’t necessarily the most powerful thing that could be nerfed.
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No, I have never been a spirit main, I have no idea why you think I play spirit or have ever played spirit a lot, I've played less than 50 matches with her.
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If they listened to the survivor community, they'd have acknowledged one of our many posts complaining about the bug where you're working on a gen and then randomly afflicted with torment, which PH then abuses to either cage or mori. Too bad if he can't bait. People were tired of the lose/lose situations. Your threat to just mori isn't much, considering you probably do that anyway, and moris are going to be re-worked in teh future too. That's already a done deal. If you're so upset over this change, then perhaps you should try playing a different killer, because you sound like you only play PH. Not to mention, you were literally just handed all these incredible new killer meta perks with Blight, Billy's nerf was anything butt, because you guys complained, and, as a result, Bubba needed a bigger buff so that people wouldn't continue to ignore him because billy was obviously still better. So much for killer-sided. Why? Because they didn't nerf Decisive Strike again?
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Actually I don't, my main build is Dead Hard, Iron Will, Spince Chill, and Resilience. I also don't see why my build has to do with playing against Pyramid Head being a complete guessing game for survivor.
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Lets be real thats a pretty strong chase build for survivor. Extremely powerful against the low tier killers.
Hell iron will creates a guessing game for killer too.
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True as that may be, I wouldn't describe it as a "pussy build" as the lovely kyle put it. I would say it takes some skill to use and some skill to beat. All in all, I just don't appreciate people making assumptions about me just because I think that faking your power as some killers feels cheap to play against as survivor.
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On mobile so can’t make a new discussion..
changes confirmed, cooldown gone from 2.75s to 2.25s EXACTLY AS I CALLED IT!
After cancelling M2, 1 second of 110% movement speed and 1 second delay to M1
So a 1 second delay to his hit for 0.5s off his cooldown
”wE tOtAlLy DoNt mEan To nUrf hIm Guyz”
Sure you didn’t, sure you didn’t. We all saw this coming a mile off. This update was done for survivors and nobody else.
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Pathetic update literally shameful that it took 8 months.
We need new or more balance devs.
Nothing but nerfs with fake useless "buffs"
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time to say. "byeeee pyramed head devs thaks for killing him"
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actually your wrong it buffs players that didn't use cheap tactics
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They haven’t killed him yet. This is just the first blow.
Check these forums and Otzdarva’s chat. They’re going for the jugular on this one. No mercy until he’s unrecognizable.
Dear survivors please, I’m begging you...
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