Are There Any LGBTQ Survivors In The Game Or Planning To Be
Comments
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@Orion said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Orion said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
name good examples of movies with LGBTQ+ LEADS THAT ARENT LGBTQ based movies because their isnt alot from the USA thats in english.Wasn't there one that was literally nominated for an Oscar or something?
if there is name it other than Love, Simon since it is the first really good american LGBTQ+ movie that was in theatrers
Can't remember the name. I don't really care for those films, but I know there was one released very recently that got a lot of media attention.
yeah its called Love, Simon and its the first small step to adding another LGBTQ+ movie to the very small pool of them then campaired to the many strait ones
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@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Orion said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Orion said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
name good examples of movies with LGBTQ+ LEADS THAT ARENT LGBTQ based movies because their isnt alot from the USA thats in english.Wasn't there one that was literally nominated for an Oscar or something?
if there is name it other than Love, Simon since it is the first really good american LGBTQ+ movie that was in theatrers
Can't remember the name. I don't really care for those films, but I know there was one released very recently that got a lot of media attention.
yeah its called Love, Simon and its the first small step to adding another LGBTQ+ movie to the very small pool of them then campaired to the many strait ones
Found it. It's called Call Me By Your Name, released last year. Here's the link to Wikipedia's article on the awards it's won. Yes, it won so many awards that they had to make it its own article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accolades_received_by_Call_Me_by_Your_Name
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@Wahara said:
That's still unsafe to assume because emphasis can be placed on their immutable characteristics but they can also be given depth at the same time. Someone who is flamboyant isn't necessarily two dimensional. You can only really guess the motivations behind the creation of any particular character unless the creator outright says why they were included.I also don't see the connection. If I add in a woman to a TV show because I notice that the series has only male characters up to this point, and I observe social media to notice a large chunk of my viewer base asking for a female lead, why am I inherently less likely to consider things such as her acting skills or her ability to fit in the show?
I agree with you very much on the last part.
Someone whose entire character can be described as a stereotype is not the same thing as someone who has one or two stereotypical traits.
Because you're just looking for "actress". That's the first trait you're worried about, so you're less likely to care about the rest. It's not a conscious effort, mind you.
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@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Orion said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Orion said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
"However, I will point out, again, that whenever homosexuals say "LGBT", or some variation of it, they're only concerned with representation for the first two letters. You may ask yourself why this is relevant. Well, since you claim to be interested in representation for the sake of acceptance, look up bi-erasure."i said i was leaving but ######### dude i am gay, i have a transgender (MTF) sister, i also fight for all rights of all genders and sexual orientations i care about everyone who is LGBTQ+ and by saying we only care about the first two letters just means you dont know all the facts
You don't know all the facts either, sweetheart. Tell me, where in this thread was there a demand for a non-homosexual Survivor or even a non-homosexual character?
Every single thread I've seen asking for an LGBT character, be it for a TV series, a movie, a book, or a game, was always about a gay (usually male) character, and nothing more.let me post my original post
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
i asked this in the questions for the Q and A but it was one of the non-picked ones (i wonder why). like are any of the survivors in the game now LGBTQ and if not are you planning on there being any? any one have any ideas or seen things that sugest there is? i would say Nea is a lesbian but you never know cause she could be MTF (male to female trans) and Dwight could be Gay. Anyone think of people they want to be LGBTQ in this game's lore?what do you see maybe NEA IS A LESBIAN OR MTF and i do say dwight could be gay but i clearly stated ANY LGBTQ+ CHARACTER not just a gay male. and i said i only wanted like one or two LGBTQ+ characters implying all the rest would be strait.
And afterward, it (d)evolved into the main subject - gay characters. Because the rest of LGBT don't really matter.
no people like you guys who are against it did. because the rest of LGBTQ+ do matter and what you said is proof of why it does and it needs more recognition
Sweetie, don't give me that #########. I've been watching this crapfest for longer than you've been alive. Look up bi-erasure like I told you so you can get some idea of the way the rest of the LGBT crowd are treated by the LG's, which was the only reason I brought up that LGBT isn't just comprised of homosexuals.
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Serious thought - you desire a character you can play and relate to (LGBTQ+), while a majority of the people don't want a character like that just to have one. What about a middle-ground option - cosmetics?
It could be free, it could be paid, depending on the scenario. The money spent on the DLC (if paid) could go towards a charity that seeks to help members of the LGBTQ community (however, this will most likely be Steam only, since Sony and Microsoft want a portion of the profits). This DLC would obviously exclude all licensed characters (Michael, Laurie, Freddy, Quentin, Tapp, Amanda, Leatherface, and Bill).
The killers might end up just having a basic item, something like a rainbow colored item (like a Wraith Head where the shawl or poncho would look like a rainbow flag), or some killers could have a rainbow flag patch on their shoulders. Weapons would be excluded, I think, because very few people would look at that sort of detail (the weapons could be engraved with an LGBTQ logo if there is one). Primarily head and/or body pieces.
Each survivor could have an outfit that could show: drag, effeminate clothing, masculine clothing, anything else that would indicate this character could be in the LGBTQ community, but nothing confirmed. Each survivor would also have a bonus top that is a basic shirt that either has the rainbow flag on it, or says "pride."
I don't have too much knowledge of the LGBTQ community, but the outfits would need to at least show solidarity towards those in the community, right? I hope those in the community don't find this disingenuous, I am trying to find a serious middle-ground to try to quell the tension in this thread.
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@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@PolarBear said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
guys i really dont want to argue i just want to discuss who could be LGBTQ, why they could be, and have fun in another discussion. when people come into these discussions and say stuff like why does it matter or that its irrelevant to the game.
when you do this is saddens me because all i wanted to do was start another post about something i believe in why cant you just let me ask what i want and not campaign against it if you dont believe in it.
i want a confirmed LGBTQ character in this horror game that i have many hours into because i want to be able to relate to a character for real not just say oh this persons gay and i believe that.
so when i ask for them to confirm if in any characters lore, they believed they were LGBTQ so that i can personally relate to them for real, not just in my head its something thats reasonable.
if you dont want to talk about who you think is LGBTQ and try and find reasons why they are by looking in the current lore or coming up with lore yourself for if they were LGBTQ then leave
so, again if you dont agree with any of LGBTQ, you want to constantly go against anything any of us put, or just come up with reason after reason why this question i ask cant be added to the game's lore as a small part of it thats only one sentence long if that.
so, if you qualify as anything i said before then just go, leave, get out of this thread because no one needs you negativity in a thread thats asking for a small thing to be added that will not effect your quality of life unless you are a homophobe or transphobe or anything against LGBTQ and if you are then give good, solid reasons why its wrong to be LGBTQ (LGBTQ stands for everyone that is not strait just because there is not a letter there does not mean it is not represented) and if you can do that then go ahead and try.i am gay, i am also a Baptist Christian going to a Christian Baptist School who believes in God. so if your argument is that it is a sin against God then your argument is invalid because we are all sinners in Gods eyes and every sin is equal.
so, if your going to be negative then just go and let me and other people who want to participate in this thread participate peacefully.
(side note if your color blind and cant read this post tell me and i will post a different version that has no color)
You want to relate to a character by them being gay. How can I then relate to that character if I'm straight? If they can't implement the sexual orientation of a character in a meaningful way then why should they?
if your strait then your already accepted for your sexual orientation so you dont go what most LGBTQ+ people do
I can't understand your english, sorry.
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@PolarBear said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@PolarBear said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
guys i really dont want to argue i just want to discuss who could be LGBTQ, why they could be, and have fun in another discussion. when people come into these discussions and say stuff like why does it matter or that its irrelevant to the game.
when you do this is saddens me because all i wanted to do was start another post about something i believe in why cant you just let me ask what i want and not campaign against it if you dont believe in it.
i want a confirmed LGBTQ character in this horror game that i have many hours into because i want to be able to relate to a character for real not just say oh this persons gay and i believe that.
so when i ask for them to confirm if in any characters lore, they believed they were LGBTQ so that i can personally relate to them for real, not just in my head its something thats reasonable.
if you dont want to talk about who you think is LGBTQ and try and find reasons why they are by looking in the current lore or coming up with lore yourself for if they were LGBTQ then leave
so, again if you dont agree with any of LGBTQ, you want to constantly go against anything any of us put, or just come up with reason after reason why this question i ask cant be added to the game's lore as a small part of it thats only one sentence long if that.
so, if you qualify as anything i said before then just go, leave, get out of this thread because no one needs you negativity in a thread thats asking for a small thing to be added that will not effect your quality of life unless you are a homophobe or transphobe or anything against LGBTQ and if you are then give good, solid reasons why its wrong to be LGBTQ (LGBTQ stands for everyone that is not strait just because there is not a letter there does not mean it is not represented) and if you can do that then go ahead and try.i am gay, i am also a Baptist Christian going to a Christian Baptist School who believes in God. so if your argument is that it is a sin against God then your argument is invalid because we are all sinners in Gods eyes and every sin is equal.
so, if your going to be negative then just go and let me and other people who want to participate in this thread participate peacefully.
(side note if your color blind and cant read this post tell me and i will post a different version that has no color)
You want to relate to a character by them being gay. How can I then relate to that character if I'm straight? If they can't implement the sexual orientation of a character in a meaningful way then why should they?
if your strait then your already accepted for your sexual orientation so you dont go what most LGBTQ+ people do
I can't understand your english, sorry.
He means that heterosexuals aren't discriminated against because of their sexual orientation. I think.
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@Orion said:
@Wahara said:
That's still unsafe to assume because emphasis can be placed on their immutable characteristics but they can also be given depth at the same time. Someone who is flamboyant isn't necessarily two dimensional. You can only really guess the motivations behind the creation of any particular character unless the creator outright says why they were included.I also don't see the connection. If I add in a woman to a TV show because I notice that the series has only male characters up to this point, and I observe social media to notice a large chunk of my viewer base asking for a female lead, why am I inherently less likely to consider things such as her acting skills or her ability to fit in the show?
I agree with you very much on the last part.
Someone whose entire character can be described as a stereotype is not the same thing as someone who has one or two stereotypical traits.
Because you're just looking for "actress". That's the first trait you're worried about, so you're less likely to care about the rest. It's not a conscious effort, mind you.
Okay. We're in agreement on one thing. Characters who are based purely on stereotypes are poorly written and unhealthy. Given your experience as someone who is queer, in your honest opinion, how likely do you think it is that a character who did carry one or two stereotypical traits but contained depth at the same, would be written off and condemned as a tokenization anyways? My guess is that likelihood is very, very high. This is part of the reason why I concede, at least in the abstract, that this is a thing that exists, but have great difficulty taking concern over its prevalence very seriously.
The bolded words are the links in your last bit that I would like you to justify. There's just something about this "for the sake of it" fear that is just plain off. Admittedly, I don't think I am doing the best right now at pin pointing it. I think the fear is grossly overstated to which I think I've made an adequate case for and I suspect it may be entirely unfounded, but don't quite know how to get that far yet. I'll need some time to think and revisit. There's a specific name for this fallacy.
That's isn't a bad suggestion at all! I'm curious, though. How exactly is the possible visual expression of sexuality, such clothing or symbols, not "forced" on you, but a character who is confirmed to be a particular sexuality is? Isn't that, from your own perspective, capitulating to add representation "for the sake of it" albeit not as concrete? I mean, I'll take it, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying if Quentin can run around Gideon meat plant in high-heels and the hag can lay rainbow traps, you can also just simply have an LGBTQ character. Lol.
Post edited by Wahara on0 -
If it is cosmetics, then it's the individual player's choice to make their character LGBTQ. They made the effort to purchase the clothing, and people who don't want it simply won't buy it. The main point should be the characters are what you make them. Instead of making one person trans for everyone, someone could instead equip cosmetics to make them trans for themselves. On the one side, the characters remain the same, their sexuality is a mystery. On the other side, the characters can be customized to be LGBTQ by the player. I don't see many people on here actually opposed to having an LGBTQ character, but most people just want their inclusion to be meaningful.
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For what it's worth, Orion, I haven't really argued much for the representation of others in the LGBTQ because I'm simply just a gay guy. Though, I have tried to use "queer" instead of just "gay" when making my posts. If homosexual characters were to be included, I would also want the inclusion of characters who are trans, gender-fluid, etc.
I also want to point out that diversity helps games, it doesn't weaken them. Earlier, ToolBoxMotley tried to paint all of this as ridiculous by listing off a bunch of silly characteristics like allergies, cutting oranges, and video game preference in order to set up a false equivalency. But, it wasn't all garbage. He mentioned religion and mental illness, like bi-polar.
Yes. Yes! Why not include those things? By all means, include them! Why not include characters from sorts of different backgrounds and walks of life? Queer characters, religious characters, disabled characters, characters who suffer mental illness, homeless characters, etc. What separates all of these things from other purported "irrelevancies" is their higher chance of being related to, appreciated, and benefited from. This has never been about me or "my" agenda.
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Can we please just let this thread die everyone!!! Its gone on for much too long. The point is that if you want a character to be LGTB just pretend they are, they're your characters on YOUR account so do what you want with them. I come from Hispanic decent but do I care about representation? No, at least not in a video game.1
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Finally, I figured it out.
Regarding "tokenism" - its existence is being framed as an argument against the inclusion of LGBTQ characters, but the inclusion LGBTQ characters isn't why tokenism exists. Bigotry and prejudice is why tokenism exists. It's being used as an example to hit the wrong target.
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This is so stupid.
Can't we just be happy with the characters and not focus if they take it up the backdoor instead of putting up a pandering neon lgbt-whatever light around a character.3 -
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
i asked this in the questions for the Q and A but it was one of the non-picked ones (i wonder why). like are any of the survivors in the game now LGBTQ and if not are you planning on there being any? any one have any ideas or seen things that sugest there is? i would say Nea is a lesbian but you never know cause she could be MTF (male to female trans) and Dwight could be Gay. Anyone think of people they want to be LGBTQ in this game's lore?Doubt it, but still, I don't see a point in making the characters LGBTQ or anything, because it wouldn't affect gameplay unless they made some weird teachable perk to relate to the characters' lore like they used to do.
Maybe some sort of perk that makes it so like, if someone is the same gender as them they save them faster than a survivor of the opposite gender. Pretty dumb idea, but it's all I can think of, not much about sexuality can really affect gameplay.0 -
@Wahara said:
@Orion said:
@Wahara said:
That's still unsafe to assume because emphasis can be placed on their immutable characteristics but they can also be given depth at the same time. Someone who is flamboyant isn't necessarily two dimensional. You can only really guess the motivations behind the creation of any particular character unless the creator outright says why they were included.I also don't see the connection. If I add in a woman to a TV show because I notice that the series has only male characters up to this point, and I observe social media to notice a large chunk of my viewer base asking for a female lead, why am I inherently less likely to consider things such as her acting skills or her ability to fit in the show?
I agree with you very much on the last part.
Someone whose entire character can be described as a stereotype is not the same thing as someone who has one or two stereotypical traits.
Because you're just looking for "actress". That's the first trait you're worried about, so you're less likely to care about the rest. It's not a conscious effort, mind you.
Okay. We're in agreement on one thing. Characters who are based purely on stereotypes are poorly written and unhealthy. Given your experience as someone who is queer, in your honest opinion, how likely do you think it is that a character who did carry one or two stereotypical traits but contained depth at the same, would be written off and condemned as a tokenization anyways? My guess is that likelihood is very, very high. This is part of the reason why I concede, at least in the abstract, that this is a thing that exists, but have great difficulty taking concern over its prevalence very seriously.
The bolded words are the links in your last bit that I would like you to justify. There's just something about this "for the sake of it" fear that is just plain off. Admittedly, I don't think I am doing the best right now at pin pointing it. I think the fear is grossly overstated to which I think I've made an adequate case for and I suspect it may be entirely unfounded, but don't quite know how to get that far yet. I'll need some time to think and revisit. There's a specific name for this fallacy.
Very low. I point out, as I did a while ago, to Jack Harkness, from the Torchwood TV series. He's "omnisexual" (doesn't even have a preferred species) and very promiscuous, but he's not seen as a token character. To be fair, though, he is the main character of the show.
It's a form of subconscious bias. When the characteristic you're interested in is X, every other characteristic becomes less relevant by comparison. It's not something you can control. Our brains are just wired that way.
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@Aari_Piggy66 Why are you so eager to silence a perfectly valid discussion? I am actually enjoying myself, currently, with Orion and CoolAKn. They're making a serious effort in participating with me at the moment, and not intentionally being patronizing by questioning my motives or bringing up political views they suspect I have as an ad hominem.
There is no reason not to have this conversation. If you think it's stupid, there is an X button at the top right corner of your screen that you're free to press at any time.
I've noticed your latest post and will respond. Allow me to take a bit of breather and let the conversation flow a bit without me before I come back, so I can address it with several others if the need arises.
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Take your SJW Politicing somewhere else.
It doens't matter if a survivor is gay or not.
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If you want to know why I think this is stupid it's personally because most characters I've seen that have been put in because LGBT representation has been asked for end up being the tokens.Wahara said:@Aari_Piggy66 Why are you so eager to silence a perfectly valid discussion? I am actually enjoying myself, currently, with Orion and CoolAKn. They're making a serious effort in participating with me at the moment, and not intentionally being patronizing by questioning my motives or bringing up political views they suspect I have as an ad hominem.
There is no reason not to have this conversation. If you think it's stupid, there is an X button at the top right corner of your screen that you're free to press at any time.
I've noticed your latest post and will respond. Allow me to take a bit of breather and let the conversation flow a bit without me before I come back, so I can address it with several others if the need arises.
Their sole character traits tends to be there sexuality and any other stereotypes of the LGBT community the creator wants to attack on.
True they have been stand out characters for example like Orion pointed out Captain Jack or Jesus from The Walking Dead.
With these types of characters you feel like they were written to be interesting characters and had the LGBT characteristics woven into their character once they had a solid backbone of development.
If we're going to see an LGBT character in this game I would actually like it but I would much prefer if they wasn't just a character that could be pretty much just regarded as the gay one.
Again sorry if I'm coming off as a bit of a pessimistic ######### but I have been so burnt out by the way the media tends to represent lgbt, that a lot of the representations feel more like insults than genuine love for the community.Post edited by Volfawott on5 -
@Orion said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Orion said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Orion said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
name good examples of movies with LGBTQ+ LEADS THAT ARENT LGBTQ based movies because their isnt alot from the USA thats in english.Wasn't there one that was literally nominated for an Oscar or something?
if there is name it other than Love, Simon since it is the first really good american LGBTQ+ movie that was in theatrers
Can't remember the name. I don't really care for those films, but I know there was one released very recently that got a lot of media attention.
yeah its called Love, Simon and its the first small step to adding another LGBTQ+ movie to the very small pool of them then campaired to the many strait ones
Found it. It's called Call Me By Your Name, released last year. Here's the link to Wikipedia's article on the awards it's won. Yes, it won so many awards that they had to make it its own article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accolades_received_by_Call_Me_by_Your_Name
ok so another movie. please tell me how many strait movies there are vs how many containing LGBTQ+ characters. you see the diffrence right?
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@Vortexas said:
Take your SJW Politicing somewhere else.It doens't matter if a survivor is gay or not.
it does since its apart of lore
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Is there gay, it wouldn’t say. If their trans, they’d either look like their identified gender, or a cross dresser. Basically it makes zero sense to think about adding them. One of the characters could be it and you don’t even know. You don’t see any bios saying David is straight do you?
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@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Vortexas said:
Take your SJW Politicing somewhere else.It doens't matter if a survivor is gay or not.
it does since its apart of lore
No one cares.
The only people that do care are you borderline communists on the Left that want to make issues out of non-issues.
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@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Vortexas said:
Take your SJW Politicing somewhere else.It doens't matter if a survivor is gay or not.
it does since its apart of lore
Name one non licensed survivorr you can definitively say is not trans and straight.
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@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Orion said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Orion said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Orion said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
name good examples of movies with LGBTQ+ LEADS THAT ARENT LGBTQ based movies because their isnt alot from the USA thats in english.Wasn't there one that was literally nominated for an Oscar or something?
if there is name it other than Love, Simon since it is the first really good american LGBTQ+ movie that was in theatrers
Can't remember the name. I don't really care for those films, but I know there was one released very recently that got a lot of media attention.
yeah its called Love, Simon and its the first small step to adding another LGBTQ+ movie to the very small pool of them then campaired to the many strait ones
Found it. It's called Call Me By Your Name, released last year. Here's the link to Wikipedia's article on the awards it's won. Yes, it won so many awards that they had to make it its own article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accolades_received_by_Call_Me_by_Your_Name
ok so another movie. please tell me how many strait movies there are vs how many containing LGBTQ+ characters. you see the diffrence right?
Because LGBT movies (really, homosexual movies, because the BT's are ignored) focus solely on the sexual orientation, and very few people want to see that.
The film industry is a business. If they don't think it's worth their money, they won't make it.0 -
@Vortexas said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Vortexas said:
Take your SJW Politicing somewhere else.It doens't matter if a survivor is gay or not.
it does since its apart of lore
No one cares.
The only people that do care are you borderline communists on the Left that want to make issues out of non-issues.
Don't bring political affiliation into this, ffs. What does political affiliation have to do with LGBT?
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@Vortexas said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Vortexas said:
Take your SJW Politicing somewhere else.It doens't matter if a survivor is gay or not.
it does since its apart of lore
No one cares.
The only people that do care are you borderline communists on the Left that want to make issues out of non-issues.
i am not a communist go away if you dont care
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@Jack11803 said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Vortexas said:
Take your SJW Politicing somewhere else.It doens't matter if a survivor is gay or not.
it does since its apart of lore
Name one non licensed survivorr you can definitively say is not trans and straight.
none because the game creaters have not stated that any are or arent and thats what i am asking for that part of thier lore
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@Jack11803 said:
Is there gay, it wouldn’t say. If their trans, they’d either look like their identified gender, or a cross dresser. Basically it makes zero sense to think about adding them. One of the characters could be it and you don’t even know. You don’t see any bios saying David is straight do you?you do know trans means you transfer to the other gender right and wont look like the one you left anymore after it.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/845652583058456576/Td2k31gV_400x400.jpg
does this look like a crossdresser to you?
no, no it does his name is Sam Collins and he is (FTM) Transgender.0 -
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Jack11803 said:
Is there gay, it wouldn’t say. If their trans, they’d either look like their identified gender, or a cross dresser. Basically it makes zero sense to think about adding them. One of the characters could be it and you don’t even know. You don’t see any bios saying David is straight do you?you do know trans means you transfer to the other gender right and wont look like the one you left anymore after it.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/845652583058456576/Td2k31gV_400x400.jpg
does this look like a crossdresser to you?You don't want an honest answer to that.
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@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Jack11803 said:
Is there gay, it wouldn’t say. If their trans, they’d either look like their identified gender, or a cross dresser. Basically it makes zero sense to think about adding them. One of the characters could be it and you don’t even know. You don’t see any bios saying David is straight do you?you do know trans means you transfer to the other gender right and wont look like the one you left anymore after it.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/845652583058456576/Td2k31gV_400x400.jpg
does this look like a crossdresser to you?Quit assuming things. Sex isn’t important. Gender isn’t important. The only thing that truly defines a person is their action. Not all trans use hormone therapy.
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@Orion said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Jack11803 said:
Is there gay, it wouldn’t say. If their trans, they’d either look like their identified gender, or a cross dresser. Basically it makes zero sense to think about adding them. One of the characters could be it and you don’t even know. You don’t see any bios saying David is straight do you?you do know trans means you transfer to the other gender right and wont look like the one you left anymore after it.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/845652583058456576/Td2k31gV_400x400.jpg
does this look like a crossdresser to you?You don't want an honest answer to that.
Looks like a tomboy. Honest answer
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@Jack11803 said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:@Jack11803 said:
Is there gay, it wouldn’t say. If their trans, they’d either look like their identified gender, or a cross dresser. Basically it makes zero sense to think about adding them. One of the characters could be it and you don’t even know. You don’t see any bios saying David is straight do you?you do know trans means you transfer to the other gender right and wont look like the one you left anymore after it.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/845652583058456576/Td2k31gV_400x400.jpg
does this look like a crossdresser to you?Wuite assuming things. Sex isn’t important. Gender isn’t important. The only thing that truly defines a person is their action. Not all trans use hormone therapy.
but if a character is strait or LGBTQ+ is apart of thier history or lore (a body of traditions and knowledge on a subject or held by a particular group, typically passed from person to person by word of mouth)
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@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
@Jack11803 said:
@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:@Jack11803 said:
Is there gay, it wouldn’t say. If their trans, they’d either look like their identified gender, or a cross dresser. Basically it makes zero sense to think about adding them. One of the characters could be it and you don’t even know. You don’t see any bios saying David is straight do you?you do know trans means you transfer to the other gender right and wont look like the one you left anymore after it.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/845652583058456576/Td2k31gV_400x400.jpg
does this look like a crossdresser to you?Wuite assuming things. Sex isn’t important. Gender isn’t important. The only thing that truly defines a person is their action. Not all trans use hormone therapy.
but if a character is strait or LGBTQ+ is apart of thier history or lore (a body of traditions and knowledge on a subject or held by a particular group, typically passed from person to person by word of mouth)
By this logic, you want a "He is gay", "He is """strait"""", "He is a she, you CIS white male, stop implying it's gender" caption at the at the top of the every character's lore text? Is it that important, really? Why do you make such a big thing out of the sexuality of pixels?
Also the girl from the picture looks very feminine.
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It's not the picture. Men and women have different skeletal structures, and no reassignment surgery or hormone therapy can change that.
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@Orion said:
It's not the picture. Men and women have different skeletal structures, and no reassignment surgery or hormone therapy can change that.
Yeah, I think the same. Surgery won't change the other things too, but is is another story. Anyway, sexualizing characters in game is silly in my opinion.
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He still going on?
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If it is cosmetics, then it's the individual player's choice to make their character LGBTQ. They made the effort to purchase the clothing, and people who don't want it simply won't buy it. The main point should be the characters are what you make them. Instead of making one person trans for everyone, someone could instead equip cosmetics to make them trans for themselves. On the one side, the characters remain the same, their sexuality is a mystery. On the other side, the characters can be customized to be LGBTQ by the player. I don't see many people on here actually opposed to having an LGBTQ character, but most people just want their inclusion to be meaningful.
None of this seems arbitrary to you? While you are not made to play a queer character yourself, you are still being made to interact with queer representations of different characters. In the same way it is an individuals choice to customize their character for a queer representation, it is also the individuals choice whether or not to play an explicitly queer character. If they don't want to, they don't have to.
Should we also have the option of changing race and gender? That is still one (of a few) points that I've brought up that hasn't been properly addressed. If the representation of race and gender is okay, then the representation of sexuality must also be okay. If the representation of queerness is "forced" than the representation of race and gender is also forced. If the representation of queerness requires compromise in the form of an "opt out" than so too does race and gender.
Well, there isn't much I can really say to that except to chalk up our differences of opinion on the aforementioned likelihood to our differences in experience. We have both seen the ghost busters remake, though, and I'll dispute that as a proper example. Yes, the cast is all women, but in no way are their characters completely reduced to their gender. Did you have a response, by the way, regarding my most recent point about tokenism concerns?
I also hope most don't think me arrogant for saying this, but since the bulk of my points have still remained unaddressed, or improperly addressed, I'll treat them as concessions. I invite you to speak now or forever hold your peace. There is a detailed summary of my positions on page 8. In the event no one would like to accept that offer, I will move forward and treat the current subject of discussion as being not one of supposed irrelevancy or imposed political agenda, but rather the fear of being represented in an unhealthy way.
I understand. I sympathize, even. For all our sakes, though, so this discussion can progress at all, can we admit that this is really what it's all about? That as part of the LGBTQ community, it's not that most of us don't think our representation in media would be a great thing, but that we're so afraid of being represented improperly that too many of us would rather just be invisible?
Lastly, for every new poster such as Vortexas and Jack, who have indicated they haven't followed the discussion and are beginning on chapter one when in reality we are on chapter fifteen, will simply be ignored or re-directed to page 8. If you have a stake in this discussion and are interested in it moving forward instead of in circles, I sincerely request that you do the same.
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@Wahara Honestly, the main reason I haven't addressed all your points is that the forum is very clunky and limited, and I don't think this discussion - or any discussion, really - is worth the effort. Let's agree to disagree on the salient points and leave it at that.
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i agree on agreeing to disagree i just want to get back to the main topic of this which was who do you think could be LGBTQ+ and maybe is there any proof in lore or anywhere else that might insinuate that. yes apart of it was that i wanted a LGBTQ+ character added but mostly on who people think is LGBTQ+
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@Wahara said:
None of this seems arbitrary to you? While you are not made to play a queer character yourself, you are still being made to interact with queer representations of different characters. In the same way it is an individuals choice to customize their character for a queer representation, it is also the individuals choice whether or not to play an explicitly queer character. If they don't want to, they don't have to.Should we also have the option of changing race and gender? That is still one (of a few) points that I've brought up that hasn't been properly addressed. If the representation of race and gender is okay, then the representation of sexuality must also be okay. If the representation of queerness is "forced" than the representation of race and gender is also forced. If the representation of queerness requires compromise in the form of an "opt out" than so too does race and gender.
Let me ask you now, how would you make a survivor as obviously gay as them being female? How would you make a survivor as obviously bisexual as they are black?
Female survivors are visually smaller than male survivors. Darker skinned survivors blend in better in darker surroundings than their lighter skinned companions. Gay survivors are more/less ??? than straight survivors.
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I believe I answered your inquiries on page eight. Please let me know if you don't find the explanations contained there adequate and I will do my best to elaborate in greater detail.
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@Wahara said:
If it is cosmetics, then it's the individual player's choice to make their character LGBTQ. They made the effort to purchase the clothing, and people who don't want it simply won't buy it. The main point should be the characters are what you make them. Instead of making one person trans for everyone, someone could instead equip cosmetics to make them trans for themselves. On the one side, the characters remain the same, their sexuality is a mystery. On the other side, the characters can be customized to be LGBTQ by the player. I don't see many people on here actually opposed to having an LGBTQ character, but most people just want their inclusion to be meaningful.
None of this seems arbitrary to you? While you are not made to play a queer character yourself, you are still being made to interact with queer representations of different characters. In the same way it is an individuals choice to customize their character for a queer representation, it is also the individuals choice whether or not to play an explicitly queer character. If they don't want to, they don't have to.
Should we also have the option of changing race and gender? That is still one (of a few) points that I've brought up that hasn't been properly addressed. If the representation of race and gender is okay, then the representation of sexuality must also be okay. If the representation of queerness is "forced" than the representation of race and gender is also forced. If the representation of queerness requires compromise in the form of an "opt out" than so too does race and gender.
Well, there isn't much I can really say to that except to chalk up our differences of opinion on the aforementioned likelihood to our differences in experience. We have both seen the ghost busters remake, though, and I'll dispute that as a proper example. Yes, the cast is all women, but in no way are their characters completely reduced to their gender. Did you have a response, by the way, regarding my most recent point about tokenism concerns?
I also hope most don't think me arrogant for saying this, but since the bulk of my points have still remained unaddressed, or improperly addressed, I'll treat them as concessions. I invite you to speak now or forever hold your peace. There is a detailed summary of my positions on page 8. In the event no one would like to accept that offer, I will move forward and treat the current subject of discussion as being not one of supposed irrelevancy or imposed political agenda, but rather the fear of being represented in an unhealthy way.
I understand. I sympathize, even. For all our sakes, though, so this discussion can progress at all, can we admit that this is really what it's all about? That as part of the LGBTQ community, it's not that most of us don't think our representation in media would be a great thing, but that we're so afraid of being represented improperly that too many of us would rather just be invisible?
Lastly, for every new poster such as Vortexas and Jack, who have indicated they haven't followed the discussion and are beginning on chapter one when in reality we are on chapter fifteen, will simply be ignored or re-directed to page 8. If you have a stake in this discussion and are interested in it moving forward instead of in circles, I sincerely request that you do the same.
All that’s one page 8 is he said she said and you completely ignoring the key difference between what’s disclosed now and what you want. We can see the characters are male and female, we can see their race. We can’t SEE gay, and SEEING trans would just offend people anyway. It’s a fruitless and pointless argument. And you can fill in your own bio for what’s not there. Have you seen how much gay content there is for davidxdwight? A shitload. Also a ton of futa. Have imagination.
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You know, I was starting to write up a big response, but I'm not lying when I say sexuality doesn't matter. Neither do race or gender, by the way. Maybe I just think that as a result of my upbringing, caring more about how a person lives than how they were born.
Anyway, this isn't worth the condescension and stubbornness. Have a grand old time wallowing in the puddle. Back to the ocean for me.
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@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
i asked this in the questions for the Q and A but it was one of the non-picked ones (i wonder why).This right here would make me not want to even take your question due to the flaming neon sign that screams baited bias. They could've taken your question which by the way was 1 of probably thousands submitted each week.
Your responses in other threads show you've got an inbuilt bias towards anyone that either disagrees with you or doesn't share your view thus you dismiss them. Had the devs took your question and said they thought about it etc or had no plans at this time you'd have given the same type of response as above.
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deep breath
No. On page 8, I listed how, specifically, a gay killer or survivor could be represented. To which, several other members have acknowledged to be effective. When you say that "All that's on page 8 is he said, she said" I know, for a fact, you're being obtuse. Do you know how I know that? Because I remember what I ######### wrote.
The distinction that race or sex is possibly more obvious than sexuality is not a valid basis to argue against the inclusion of sexuality, nor is it a valid basis to argue its inclusion would be "forced" Within the context of the current argument, it is a completely and utterly irrelevant distinction.
I'll help you a long in the right direction, since you appear to need it. In order to actually have anything close to the argument you think that you have but don't, you would need to find a distinction that makes race or sex more immutable than sexuality, not more obvious. Comparison(s) are bridge(s) between two different things. You break a comparison by breaking the established links. Was obviousness ever a connection that was made? No. It wasn't. How basic is this? Jesus.
Now, I suggest you not waste any more of my time before you slowly provoke me into becoming more of a condescending jackass. I don't enjoy being aggressive, but for posts like yours, which are willfully disingenuous, it's warranted. In fact, you repeated yet another argument in the very post I am quoting that was covered on page 8.
Post edited by Wahara on0 -
@Wahara said:
The distinction that race or sex is possibly more obvious than sexuality is not a valid basis to argue against the inclusion of sexuality, nor is it a valid basis to argue its inclusion would be "forced"Hang on, "possibly"? Are you seriously telling me that you believe sexual orientation - a personal preference, no different from liking pizza - is outwardly visible?
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@Orion said:
@Wahara said:
The distinction that race or sex is possibly more obvious than sexuality is not a valid basis to argue against the inclusion of sexuality, nor is it a valid basis to argue its inclusion would be "forced"Hang on, "possibly"? Are you seriously telling me that you believe sexual orientation - a personal preference, no different from liking pizza - is outwardly visible?
If speaking about stereotypes - yes. But I don't think they want a stereotypical gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans etc. Sexual orientation can't be seen if we speak about normal people.
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Yes, Orion, possibly. I've discussed it before. I don't think it was in my point by point break down on page eight, so I'm not going to be a dick about it. I was tempted, though. Technically speaking, there is no sure way to know which race someone is unless they tell you. There is no physical trait that we associate with any given race that is exclusive to them, they only appear in higher frequencies. Similarly, for sex, you really have no concrete way of knowing unless they tell you or if you examine their genitalia.
What is also interesting to note, is that the basis for arguing race and sex are more obvious - that they have physical indicators whereas sexuality has none - isn't a given. Studies confirm that people can ascertain a person's sexuality accurately, above a 50% chance, by simply looking at their face. In fact, the percentage of accurate guesses still remained above 50% when participants were shown just an eye, nose, or mouth. Take a minute and look it up, it's interesting stuff.
Is this particular branch of the conversation perhaps something you would enjoy discussing with me on my profile page, by the way? It is probably best suited there unless someone can show how it's relevant.
I'm going to bed for the night, I think. I am officially in the "not ######### playing patty cake anymore" kind of mood and will probably be here for sometime. Consider that in your future responses.
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