Plague needs love and attention.
Comments
-
Yes. Thank you!
We definitely have QOL improvements on the list for her but nothing to alter her power balance. Her stats are not mirroring the comments some players are mentioning in this thread. Im just being transparent and telling you our current plan for her.
Thats my last post on this subject, more info about killer ranks and where they stand will be discussed at some point in an official twitch episode.
Thank you!
6 -
Stats mean nothing man, there's multiple factors
13 -
I honestly think we scared him enough to leave the whole argument to the people on the next livestream.
We went ham.
oops.
9 -
Guess thats one way to deal with the community.
4 -
We’re not saying they’re making up data. We’re saying that what the stats say are not accurate to what’s actually happening. As I said in a previous post, I can technically have a 100% snipe accuracy but in reality, I just took a couple shots at a shield or afk enemy.
Thank you for taking the time to post in here. That said, I hope the many comments in here show we all didn’t have a collective brain injury, that there is truth to what we say, and that perhaps stats - for one reason or another - can be easily influenced.
2 -
Yeah agreed.
Since most red rank survivors don't cleanse you never really get to even use her power. You spend the whole match just circling pallets and M1'ing. That isn't fun.
Even if y'all "think" everyone staying Exposed is strong (it's not), it isn't fun.
You aren't getting to use her power.
2 -
They generally won't have a discussion on posts unfortunately.
0 -
I mean, forgive me if I am being unreasonably skeptical, but based on recent comments BHVR has made, am I genuinely expected to believe sincerely that Plague and Pig are two of the most well-off Killers based on high-rank play? If anything, that makes me suspicious of the level of transparency.
7 -
Players: We need stats to determine what side needs love!
Also players: “Stats mean nothing.”
0 -
When they're balancing a huge part of the game around stats, that are not reliable, it makes sense for stats to mean nothing
5 -
We want stats that take into account many things that would skew the numbers. Their stats they are currently using aren't doing that.
5 -
The numbers they provide are deliberately misleading.
Businesses consistently use "statistics" in such a way to make their point appear to be more valid. They do this by omitting specific information.
The stats provided by the dbd devs are consistently sparse on the details such as the sample size and which instances of an event are counted towards an overall count.
As an example, DCs counting as kills, and how many of those sacrificed were 1-hooked and killed themselves on the hook as another.
Blindly accepting the stats provided without access to the pure data or an honest release of the details of a statistic is not a good practice to have in your life.
But if it is, I suggest subscribing to my channel and watching my videos on a daily basis. 100% of viewers are happier after watching one of my videos :)
11 -
I'm sorry, but she struggles at high ranks. The fun part of her power is completely locked behind survivors choosing not to cleanse, which makes her incredibly mediocre. Survivors are actively ignoring half her power.
I'm one of the few people here that thinks Plague isn't one of the weakest killers in the game and even I think she needs buffs. You wouldn't even have to do much to adjust her @Janick , just even forcing the survivors to use the fountains at the cost of a decrease Corrupt Purge timer would benefit her greatly.
3 -
Blessed Apple should be Base Kit. 100%.
1 -
Now listen. I'm not saying they made anything up.
I am going to say that their excuse that "once mastered she is effective" is pretty silly. Something doesn't always need to be super high skill to be effective. You do know you can make a Killer just as effective by making them require less skill, but giving them MORE options as a result, right?
This just proves you want as few skilled Killers in the game as possible to me.
4 -
Stats can be a good indicator of what’s going on, but stats also need to be taken with a grain of salt because they can be easily influenced by falsehoods.
If Plague gets 4K at rank 1, what is more likely?
Their opponents dced or gave up, as toxic survivors are heavily inclined to do?
Or Plague is a rival for Billy and Nurse, with a skill cap so high not even good or popular streamers play her enough to capitalize on it and broadcast the news?
6 -
These are points that a lot of people miss.
Post edited by Blueberry on7 -
In regards to Janick's "stat" statement, there's another thing that I think people should be concerned about.
'Was the data taken with the players' ranks after a match, or before the match (as it should be.)'
If this sounds familiar to anyone, it's the same oversight that was made in the recent 'Survival Rate By Rank' data sheet, in which survivors' survival rate appeared to be close to 80% at Rank 1. This was due to the fact that many who had died had deranked back to Rank 2, and therefore was not counted as being in the Rank 1 group despite being in Rank 1 when the match started. When this was taken into account, Peanits stated that its actual Survival Rate would have been around 43% (although that number, too, probably should be questioned, due to the fact that it was only taken from one day's worth of sample size).
So similarly, Janick's 4K Average Kill Rate at Rank 1 could have resulted from taking players' ranks from after the match, where Rank 1 killers who had not performed well were deranked to Rank 2, and therefore was not counted as being in Rank 1. It was just not questioned because, this time, there was no graph showing how The Plague performed in the other rankings.
This is just a possibility, and far from being a speculation, but something that should be questioned and answered regardless, just as sample size and the inclusion of disconnected matches should be questioned for the accuracy of the numbers given.
I personally find it disappointing when people disregard statistical data for no apparent reason, just because they don't want to believe it. But I find it equally pitiful when people swallow up statistics without question and believe it wholeheartedly as a 'fact' despite not knowing where the numbers came from. So I'm really glad that many in this thread is taking the right approach of questioning the data. How was the data collected? Why was these samples included/not included? How big of a sample size was it overall? Why is the data being interpreted this way, but not that way? And hopefully, the data analysts are willing to be transparent with the answers, because they believe what they did is the correct way.
0 -
I think the dev was partly right. She might be strong with mastery, but short of that, she's kinda meh. The reason for this, is add-ons. With her best add-ons she is pretty strong. Without them, she is not. So i'de say she needs a little love, but not much. Add-on dependences is a mean thing for a killer.
2 -
"She might be strong with mastery, but short of that, she's kinda meh"
I disagree with this.
Against red ranks no one is cleansing which means you aren't using her Corrupted fountains. If you aren't using her fountains then that means someone who "masters" her is just skilled at playing an M1 killer that can 1 hit down survivors. That's a very low level of "mastery" and I'd even argue if that Plague is 4k'ing those survivors with base M1's they are playing like potatoes. Especially when she's one of the most loopable killers in the game with her size.
"With her best add-ons she is pretty strong"
Even with her best addons she is maybe upper mid tier at best.
2 -
Trapper is Worst than Plague, and he's not getting buff...
Plague i just puke in someones face and now they are a one hit kill, and ppl seriously think she is weak?
The Killer that needs buff right now are
Trapper - Default starting Traps 2 from 1
Pig
Leatherface
Legion after stats gathered
Freddy is getting rework so no buffs needed
1 -
"Trapper is Worst than Plague, and he's not getting buff..."
They already said on stream that Trapper IS on their radar for buffs.
"Plague i just puke in someones face and now they are a one hit kill, and ppl seriously think she is weak?"
If you played at red ranks you would know how weak that actually is. There are more than enough pallets and windows to finish 5 gens and still have lots left. Being injured and 1 shot from going down is way less dangerous than you and the devs think it is. When she is huge and with a large TR this makes her one of the most loopable killers in the game.
All the killers you mentioned do need buffs, no one here is saying they don't. All we are saying is that Plague does as well. She fundamentally doesn't work how they designed her.
4 -
She's another Enduring-Spirit Fury killer.
It's sad.
5 -
One very simple change I've mentioned on a couple of occasions was to make all interactions while sick spread the sickness. Not just when your broken but when your sick at anytime.
Means survivors are sick sooner and will hopefully allow her to get the corrupt purge more often.
0 -
No one is cleansing the sickness anyway so that wouldn't really change anything aside from like the first minute of the game.
1 -
Agreed. She has no problem spreading the Love, it's the fact that her strength to end chases, the core to her strength is being denied so she becomes another M1 killer.
5 -
I think a base 15% gen repair speed slow while infected and a random fountain becoming corrupted every minute would help her a lot.
The extra corrupted fountains would actually make it dangerous to ignore cleansing the sickness as well as the small passive gen slow down to help make up for how bad she gets gen rushed because no one has to heal.
I don't even know if this change would be enough but it would definitely get her pretty close and is a good start.
5 -
Agreed, she becomes a Huntress character after that, still being able to loop her and avoid her but it gives her a fair chance.
Great idea.
0 -
They eventually cleanse. My problem with her is:
1. It takes too long to break people.
2. If you choose to make them sick, not break them and then down them it doesn't spread the sickness if they are saved/healed.
I'm not saying this should be her only change but I think if they do this it would help more than you realise.
2 -
Yeah and even with her Corrupted Purge she is still quite loopable against good survivors.
1 -
"1. It takes too long to break people."
I actually think they should have made her a playstyle where she just infects people and then leaves to keep spreading it. The whole, puke into them until broken and then M1 playstyle is bad design imo.
"2. If you choose to make them sick, not break them and then down them it doesn't spread the sickness if they are saved/healed."
Well you have to spread it yourself. I get the play style change you want and I would like that as well. I'd rather it take longer to get them into broken but spread easier and with survivors being more forced to cleanse.
3 -
I dont mind that play style of trying to break them first but I always feel forced to do it because her points are so bad you need to do it that way.
I think they should get a debuff while sick but the thing that annoys me more is when someone saves a sick survivor from the hook but not get sick themselves. Also doing a gen with a sick survivor but also not getting sick. Healing sick survivors again the same thing. I just don't understand why this isn't already changed.
0 -
The reason her point gain is so extremely low is because she isn't getting to use her power in the games because of survivors not cleansing. You'll notice when you finally get a game with some potatoes that cleanse she actually gets great points. It's her poor design stopping survivors from cleansing and letting her use her power that is killer her point gain.
"I think they should get a debuff while sick but the thing that annoys me more is when someone saves a sick survivor from the hook but not get sick themselves"
Yeah I'd like a base 15% gen repair slow while infected.
The only times a rescuer doesn't get infected is because the person on the hook wasn't fully broken from the infection. I do agree it should infect them regardless though.
"Also doing a gen with a sick survivor but also not getting sick. Healing sick survivors again the same thing"
Yeah that's happening for the same reason as above and I agree it should change.
"I just don't understand why this isn't already changed."
It's because the devs don't realize her bad design. They are only looking at their kill stats to determine if she needs changes and since she "supposedly" has high kills (which I find hard to believe) at rank 1 they think she's fine.
Not only do I doubt she has those kills at rank 1, those stats are flawed by so many factors that they don't take into account, making them near worthless in terms of determining balance.
They also need to take into account her fun factor. The fact that survivors don't cleanse means she's never getting to use her power and just M1ing all game and that is NOT fun.
I'd say her non viability and lack of fun is pretty unanimously agreed by the community when we look at this discussions current upvotes as well. I haven't seen this many up votes on a post in quite a very long time and I spend too much time on these forums.
2 -
True, but it would increase the viability a bit. I often have to make a bad choice between spreading the sickness early or actually downing and hooking people early in the game. If I choose the former, there are too many pallets up and no pressure with 3 gens left. If I choose the latter, I don't have enough people Broken and I still don't have Corrupt Purge, but at least I have some hooks. Either way, usually boring.
0 -
I'd say that's a bit strong with 15%. I got her to P3, played over 100 games with her and at red ranks she just isn't strong enough. Especially if you try to break them first without add-ons it takes too much time. Survivors shouldn't need to be broken to spread any of the sickness.
Her points are so bad I cant believe it. Since I love points more than winning I just be sick on everything, even if no one is around just for the points and it still isn't enough. If you run into a plague on ps4 just spinning around being sick on stuff it's probably me lol
Yea I'm on these forums way too long also, though I like to look at the fan creations most and recently the in-game cosmetic contest.
0 -
"Especially if you try to break them first without add-ons it takes too much time. Survivors shouldn't need to be broken to spread any of the sickness."
I just don't think the spam puke into the survivor then M1 down is good design. I'd rather increase how easily the infection spreads like you were wanting and make her playstyle encourage spreading the infection more than tunneling into 1 guy.
The 15% slow down is just compensating for the time you waste spreading the infection instead of pounding into 1 guy and for the time they aren't wasting having to heal.
Hypothetically with the changes I mentioned earlier you'd be downing them with her Corrupted Purge a lot more so you wouldn't need the Vile purge into them until broken combo as much. I think this play style is also much more fun for the survivor.
"Her points are so bad I cant believe it. Since I love points more than winning I just be sick on everything, even if no one is around just for the points and it still isn't enough. If you run into a plague on ps4 just spinning around being sick on stuff it's probably me lol"
Yeah I usually do the same lol
Like I was saying I originally thought her point gain was bad as well until I realized that it was only bad because she wasn't getting to use her power because no one was cleansing. Once people start cleansing she starts getting a normal amount of blood points compared to most killers.
1 -
Yeah I mean I'd still take this change as it makes more sense thematically and she just needs whatever buffs she can get. I like it.
I think this change along with the other things I mentioned would put her in a good spot. I don't know if she'd be quite rank 1 viable yet but it would at least be quite a large boost.
0 -
Now that Freddy is getting completely reworked it seems, ie. losing pretty much all familiarity to his current iteration, I think it might be interesting if Plague’s power:
Revealed the auras of sick survivors. She cannot see survivors when they are within 16 m of a fountain.
Her terror radius automatically increases the rate of infection.
Had a base penalty of 16% to all action speeds, and it takes survivors an additional 4% for every 10 seconds sick.
Broken survivors not only incur a 50% action speed penalty, exhaustion AND hindered penalty, but they have 10 seconds to get to a fountain or enter the dying state.
Basically salvage most of the good parts of Freddy and bestow them to Miss Plague.
Her Black Essence add on could now allow her Corrupt Purge to poison gens and objects - survivors who interact with them will get injured.
0 -
I mean, I want her buffed, but this would be completely broken lol
0 -
Injured , sickness state should have penalty in every action until heal again.
1 -
Maybe not all of those suggestions together, but since Freddy is essentially getting scrapped, there’s now “room” for aura reading in a tracker killer. And I think that The Plague should definitely have an interactive terror radius since she literally spreads the Plague.
Anyways, even if I got a little carried away, since Plague allows survivors to bypass healing, her being a little strong wouldn’t be the Worst Thing To Happen.
0 -
I agree I'd like her to work similar to Freddy's old play style of trying to micromanage all the survivors. I personally love that play style. Not to mention it fits Plague thematically.
I had an idea I mentioned earlier of maybe her Black Essence baseline but only while infected and broken. Then we give a 15% repair speed debuff for being sick and every minute a random fountain will become corrupted.
They could even slightly increased the time to become broken while infected if need be. This would encourage Plague to spread the sickness and move on instead of just tunneling into 1 guy.
0 -
pls give her love! i agree 100%
1 -
PFFT LOL FRAUDULENT ALERT
0 -
I’m genuinely curious at where this thread stands in regards to topic popularity. Most topics have a hundred or more views but 4.5 THOUSAND seems pretty hefty.
I really hope that in spite of what has been said, the devs are reconsidering their position.
2 -
For real.
I haven't seen this many up votes on a post in quite a long time. I hope the devs really take a look at this and realize that the community disagrees with them and that they might have made a mistake.
Even the survivors think she's weak.
2 -
being injured/broken just needs to have a downside (and no, being injured against a dull m1 killer with no power when survivors can deny it by not cleansing is NO downside) thats why gen rush against her happens even more. and now they doing the same ######### again with ghostface: giving the survivor the control of the killers power. ######### me
2 -
And I am actually pretty proud that this thread has been civil, respectful, intelligent, and positive throughout in regards to both criticizing Plague’s state and addressing devs.
1 -
Considering Freddy is no longer a stalling killer how about giving the Plague his slowdown mechanic for broken survivors?
1 -
Seems like a lot of players have abandoned Plague entirely, gone back to their mains or playing survivor.
1
