The Representation Tweet
Listen....I understand everyone in the LGBT community wants some sorta "Representation" and "Inclusive" in media but this is not the way to do it....
I don't care for a characters race/sexuality whatsoever because it has nothing to do with the gameplay, when I play a video game I play it for the game not just the character.
Listen I support the LGBT Community but this is pandering this also feels like a "Promotional" agenda and for what? the original "Make them how you see" was the best way because it didn't matter canon or not about how fanfic and shipping's were.
This isn't a "RPG" like Fable or Sims this is a Horror themed video game where survival are the goal/motives and not about their "Sexuality"
Now that I am reading from Facebook/Twitter...the LGBT is being toxic toward those who don't agree with their views (opinions) which is why I think leaving them to the "Fans" was the best idea that or allowing "LGBT" Cosmetics would have benefited perfectly for the community but retconning or adding new lore just to pander doesnt sit or feel right to me and others who are LGBT or are supporting the LGBT.
this is just my two cents how does everyone else feel?
Note: Let's be civil and not toxic and attack others known Opinions.
Note 2: Before someone tries to manipulate my statements, I'm stating I am fine with New Original characters getting their "I am [Insert Sexuality]" what I am against is retconning the existing characters, if its someone new wicked.
Comments
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All I can really say is you're going to have to get over it 🤷
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Agreed and this is not the way it should have gone because I preferred the "Make it your own story" to their sexuality.
Cool opinion.
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Why exactly do people care about the sexuality of fictional game characters?
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@Flyguy115 How do you think LGBTQ+ people feel with literally any romance thread in any entertainment medium. Is that not also shoving it down our throat?
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I honestly don't know...I can understand if the game is bringing in alot of RPG/Sims like vibes but if its Horror/Killer themed why does the sexuality even matter?
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All I can say is it's nice to play as someone you can identify with.
You've got like 6 or more straight dudes of varying backgrounds and activities. Can we can one gay guy? or girl? Would it really be so bad to have just one of them in the game?
Of course it's not going to be the focus of their character or lore but god damn I'm tired of having no characters that are gay because "do we really need it?" Well if you never include it yeah, you kinda do need it at some point man.
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Um....Movies/TV series all have had alot of LGBTQ+ representation both main/minor character and where Video games shouldn't be a focus for such things.
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I agree with you 100% when I play a video game I don't go out my way looking for what sexuality a character is, I play a video game to enjoy it. I could honestly care less if Nea was lesbian and Dwight is gay. I'm actually fine with them going into depth of their orientation so long as they don't push this agenda in game such as Tome lore etc.
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Yeah, I agree. People that cared about that were free to interpret what they wanted and could make all the characters gay, bi whatever. This very much looks like pandering but i guess as long as they don't shove it in my face idc keep the that stuff in the archives that i never look at.
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If you don't care, then it won't affect you. That's what "not caring" means. It will only affect people who do care.
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Why? Video games are art and mediums to tell stories, sure some of them aren't story masterpieces or story focused but every videogame brings across an idea.
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Thats why I said the concept of "Let the fans explore" fits the identification concept more than just trying to retcon/add new stuff that has nothing to do with the overall game.....because by this then we should include religion,politics, and all the other stuff that has nothing to do.
Understandable.
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What concerns me is this sort of thing has a way driving communities apart and properties to fail depending of course how bhvr goes about it.
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^ There's my opinion about this from the other thread, it fits perfectly here. Because the archives are showing sexuality details, it would be actively wrong to completely exclude anything outside heterosexuality from the details.
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That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Do you really think Bhvr is going to post an update saying "You know what? It appears some people on the internet are upset about this so even though we just made a big point to say we'll include LGBT characters and we have been celebrating Pride month for the last two weeks, we're gonna now pull a complete 180. Sorry, our bad!"
So you can either get over your discomfort and continue playing the game, or you can play something else.
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Meh, it doesn't matter. Just a character that happens to like another sex.
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I care because LGBT shouldn't be a promotional concept for things that don't determine the game itself.
The minor backgrounds for the characters were fine enough to be vague and to have fans explore.
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They only want to acknowledge that art and other mediums can be political when it suits them.
When it supports ideas they don't then all of a sudden it's not meant for political ideas and should be a complete separate celibate realm from it.
Convenient
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Prior to recently, we didnt know they were straight. Except Ace, Ace is obviously gay imo. But other than that theres no way of knowing. Why is that a problem?
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Keeping everyone ambiguous was ok. But that severely limits your ability to tell certain types of stories. If they want to explore that part of the lore they should be free to do so if it's interesting and well done. (If it's like the Nurse rework it won't be but we don't talk about her anymore)
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There is no "discomfort" and I asked nicely for no toxicity and this is about creating something new, I am fine with new characters being included but I don't prefer if they retconned/rewrote specific characters.
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This is simply false. Id like something that stays out of politics and social agendas altogether. Dbd was that
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Thats what I am talking about with being ambiguous lore-wise because it leaves us (the community) to explore what their sexuality were/are.
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That is the truth.
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Disagreeing with you strongly is not toxic.
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I can agree with that. I'd rather get a new character than they just write away someone else and be done with it.
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I see this exact same argument every time an LGBT character gets announced in a game, and it's getting really old.
People like the things they like, and if you don't care about the lore and characters' backstories, that's completely fine. What isn't fine, however, is shitting on people that care about the lore and might want to see themselves in a character. If you don't care about the lore, than this shouldn't affect you at all.
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I dont see disagreeing but thats a agree to disagree.
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I guess today is the day for these hand grenade topics. Ah well, Behaviour took a stand, so I feel like I am free to stand up in support of it.
This is exactly the kind of argument that keeps marginalized people marginalized. "I understand everyone in the LGBT community wants some sorta 'Representation' [BUUUUUUUUUUUUT can it not be here]" is the problem in a nutshell. I know I am paraphrasing you here, but I feel that this is what your position amounts to.
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It's June, y'all, yknow, Pride Month? I'm not surprised they're doing this because they've made it clear in the past that certain characters are a part of the LGBT+ community, all I'm saying is if they pull it off correctly, ie: not retconning previous lore and making it an added attribute and not their sole personality trait, I see no reason to complain.
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Not really no
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For your "make them as you see" point, I say the reason for this is the Archives. Beforehand most of the characters were blank slates, for example all we know about Meg is that he takes care of her mother and that she is sporty. Now since they are expanding on characters backstories, the old philosophy of "make them as you see" is outdated as they add more to these characters backstories.
Plus it's not like they avoid relationships before this, Nurse is a widower and David is confirmed to have a female ex in the archives. If they start adding more stories about the characters relationships then surely one of the characters would be in a same sex relationship. There are over 40 characters in the game, surely one of them is LGBT when you look at it from a statistics point of view.
Anyways no matter how they do it, as soon as they put in a gay character they are going to be accused of pandering, see the Last of Us 2.
As a side note, people on both sides of the coin are going to screech about it on the internet. That's just how the internet works. Try not to judge a group base on what you see on Twitter.
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That's not what you said, though. You said you didn't care about a character's race or sexual orientation.
There are no politics or social agendas here, just more lore.
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"see themselves in a character" is what the original concept I stated helped with the community you know the "Keep it to the fans" because this is a "Horror Theme" video game this isn't a Online/Offline RPG/Sim video game.
and I am not shitting on anyone because the lore (original) just explored the basics nothing really about who this or that person's sexuality is/was.
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Games, movies, media in general gives great exposure to problem in modern society, which is accepting people for what they are. Yes, BHVR most likely does this for good PR but that doesn't take away the good it can bring. People have been suffering for not being "normal" and still suffer to this day. Accepting anything else than straight sexuality is still for some reason really big issue to many. Even in these threads the usual response is "I don't care but don't shove it down my throat.". These minorities that suffer need to have their voice heard, that is why there is active movements around the cause. Adding diversity in game is not shoving anything in peoples throats, it literally is adding diversity. People like to feel related to characters they play. Even if it's a horror game and I can understand that. It doesn't take away anything from anyone. Why is it such a big deal? If you support people being themselves and support their sexuality, you wouldn't get all defensive.
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Thats simply wrong and you know it. Bhvr made it a big deal when they first said they werent going to bring it up and then went back on it.
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Thing is, not a single piece of lore confirmed a (non-licensed) character's sexual orientation. Not one.
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I have said it before, but as long as behaviour creates a gay character that is not gay for the sake of it, I am ok with it. Representation, if done right, is a healthy thing for video games.
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Your original post consists of the following:
- I get that LGBTQ+ people want representation and inclusiveness in media.
- This isn't the place for it.
- I don't care about a character's gender identity, and I prefer to make up the lore myself.
- Because this is a company making the statement, it is "pandering" for some agenda (...ignoring the context that this is Pride month).
- Character identity is largely unimportant since this is not an RPG.
- LGBT inclusiveness is being "toxic" toward people who don't agree with their views (lol what?), according to uh, Facebook, the bastion of positive representation.
- You know, this is just like, MY OPINION, man.
- OK let's be CIVIL toward people with different opinions.
- Let's not retcon any of the characters whose lore I (arguably) don't care about, since this isn't an RPG.
Come on, you know what you're doing with this thread. I know I am paraphrasing you here, but this is a textbook "Hey man let's not have this here, it's just MY OPINION don't attack me" bad faith argument.
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Agreed on adding new characters which properly represent that character.
It is literally what I said and it shouldn't matter about the race/sexuality spectrum when it wasn't really there to begin with until Archives.
The last of Us 2 was more or less another issue in my eyes vs how it's being done...if properly done and not retconning existing characters sure I will state I prefer new characters/killers being introduced as more inclusive.
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If you really don't care about a character's sexuality, then why does it matter how they change the lore to feel more inclusive of different people? By the same logic you're using, it shouldn't.
Every step toward progress or inclusivity can be touted as pandering, that doesn't make it so. Change has to start somewhere. If every effort someone makes to cultivate change is brushed off as shallow and insincere - the alternative is no effort at all. Not really the better option.
If the sexuality of characters isn't important to you, then this shouldn't matter to you.
Also, you have a good idea in terms of them making LGBTQ supportive cosmetics. It would be cool if they offered 'cause' cosmetic packs and donated the proceeds to organizations that support that cause.
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Bad faith argument is trying to "Manipulate" the point of my original post....this is a "Horror-Themed" video game this is not a RPG/Sim based game correct?....so why would we wanna care for such things when the goal is to kill or be killed? and yes be civil/attack others opinions is something I dont want to be for those who want the freedom of speech they want.
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it matters because LGBT shouldn't be a marketing concept for having communities buy the game as someone once said "I don't want my sexuality to be a accessory" this is common thing companies do which to many and myself seems distasteful because they didn't have to make a statement they could have made new characters and trying not to retcon/rewrite characters.
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Am I the only one with big questionmarks on his 4head rn?
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hot take: "this character is _____ now because of we want diversity" is not the same as "this character is _____ because they are _______" its basic writing and character development lol, this is blantant pandering, like WoW doing MoP.
btw idc what people are/identify as, i play videogames for escapism, idk why thats so controversial now
not to mention its a L4D style party game not some Bioware RPG xd
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+1
I'm not against this and Im not being "Defensive" i am being worried because as you said "it's good PR" if they cared that much (community or not) they would have been doing such a thing beforehand and not now after 3 years.
and as you said "Adding diversity in game is not shoving anything in peoples throat" that can also be said for heterosexuality based arguments, I've seen on Facebook this first hand about "You are shoving your heterosexuality down our throats." when I never seen the original concepts of the lore ever being that detailed.
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Look, for the record, yes, let's be civil. I agree. And I'm sorry that I maybe attacked you a little bit for that.
It seems like your position hinges on the game's genre. This is silly. We can make an argument of this nature for any genre or any framework used to tell any story in any form of media. Everything is a collection of genres and tropes formed together to form some sort of narrative structure.
At its most base level, Dead by Daylight's universe consists of square blocks interacting with one another's active frames and hitboxes in a gray untextured world. The fiction and the artwork they have wrapped around the game molds it into what it is. This includes character lore and backgrounds, much of which is currently vague -- and actively being explored and fleshed out via the Archives. Is Meg Thomas gay? I dunno, maybe? They're allowed to make that up about their character who they want to provide texture and personality to.
I don't even read much of the game's lore to be honest, but adding this type of humanity to it doesn't create a problem or prevent anyone from enjoying the game, and it helps to turn the characters they've created into a better reflection of the real world, which is what inclusiveness is.
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I understand the "People wanna Identify" but this is why fanfic exist...people don't have to accept the canon sexualities whatsoever.
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Exactly, so why are you making such a big deal out of it?
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This means very little coming from someone who can throw a rock and hit 10,000 straight characters to identify with, or have similarities to.
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